Maeda to Bullpen

[stringer bell]

TheTwins announced their starters for the Oakland series. Ober, López a Gray will pitch for the home team. Maeda will work out of the bullpen. It looks like Ryan will be the #3 starter in the postseason. 

[GNess]

Interesting. Maeda does have a good track record of pitching out of the bullpen in the postseason. His recent comments about the possibility were team-need centered so this seems like a solid move.

[Linus]

Noticed that as well. I kind of think it is a coin flip between Maeda Ryan and Ober. Maedas bullpen success was many years ago so I don’t think we should assume similar performance but it would be nice. 

[Aerodeliria]

2 minutes ago, Linus said:

Noticed that as well. I kind of think it is a coin flip between Maeda Ryan and Ober. Maedas bullpen success was many years ago so I don’t think we should assume similar performance but it would be nice. 

True, but Maeda had the best start of any pitcher on the Twins in the last playoff adventure. The Twins threw the game away unfortunately.

[stringer bell]

I think Maeda has been the best and most consistent of the possible third starters, but it's a close call. Hopefully Ryan does just as well as Maeda would have. 

[DJL44]

Keuchel will probably pitch in the Colorado series, then a bullpen game to end the season.

[Nine of twelve]

Let me start off by saying that while there are obviously no guarantees regarding the length of the Twins' postseason run, the team has to be prudent and plan for the possibility of 22 games.

Only three starters are needed for round one of the postseason. A fourth starter will need to be rostered for the second round but may not be needed until the third round. Barring injury it's unlikely that a fifth starter would be needed, and if a five-man rotation were to be used it would probably not be implemented until late in the third round at the soonest. So one of Maeda, Ober, and Ryan needs to be designated as a reliever for the first two rounds and probably beyond. Of those three I think Maeda is unquestionably the best suited to pitch in relief. I also think the team would get the most value from those three by having Maeda available to pitch in relief, especially in the first two rounds. That makes Ryan the third starter and Ober the fourth, with Maeda a reliever (and possible fifth starter late in the postseason).

I think it's also worth pointing out that we are fortunate to have five pitchers who appear capable of doing well as starters in the postseason, with Varland and Keuchel as emergency fallback options.

[Doctor Wu]

I love the idea of keeping Maeda as a starter, but I'm also not opposed to having him in the bullpen if that's the decision. Most of all, I think he's a team player with not much an ego, and he will do what it takes to help us win. 

[Trov]

Rocco has said no plan for game 3, if needed has been made.  Really, we need to win game 1 to worry much about a game 3, because if we lose game 1, then game 2 is all hands on deck, do whatever you need to do to get to game 3. So if we lose game 1, then do not be surprised if we see Gray go 4 or 5 innings, he is terrible round 3 through order generally, and we run out Maeda or Ryan as a piggy back depending on score.  If we win game 1, we have a little more room for error in game 2 and will need to plan to be ready for game 3 and do not want to burn out pen for game 3 in a lost cause of a game, if that is the situation.  You should never concede a playoff game, like you can in regular season, but at same time you need to be ready for do or die games too. 

[insagt1]

I think its safe to say now, that the Lopez-Arraez trade has worked out well for both teams...perhaps even better than anyone imagined. Lopez has emerged as the Twins best starter, after a slow start and has performed the way the Twins had hoped. Arraez will probably win the NL batting title and his team may get the final WC.

Would have to say, that after all the debating and teeth gnashing, both sides should be pretty pleased.

[Dman]

Maeda to pen is a solid move. Also if a starter has a tough start they can use Kenta to clean up a short outing as he is stretched out.  He has done well out of the pen before so has a proven track record.  He makes the most sense to use out of the pen and is great insurance all the way around.

[wabene]

8 minutes ago, Dman said:

Maeda to pen is a solid move. Also if a starter has a tough start they can use Kenta to clean up a short outing as he is stretched out.  He has done well out of the pen before so has a proven track record.  He makes the most sense to use out of the pen and is great insurance all the way around.

I agree and it is a good thing Kenta agreed to this as well. He did look really good down the stretch as a starter. As a long time Twins fan, it is crazy to see the arms the Twins have in their arsenal. The bullpen is the wildcard. The arm talent could be intimidating, hopefully the results match. 

[GKuehl]

Depending on how their starts go, it's entirely possible either Sonny or Pablo have short starts, especially if they're trying to avoid making mistakes and nibbling at the edges of the zone (which increases pitch counts). There are quite a few starts where Sonny has pitched 4 innings, given up 0 or 1 run, and has a pitch count around 85. It could make sense to turn to Maeda in these circumstances to avoid the 3rd time through the order implosion that can happen with Sonny. 

If these circumstances were to come up, it could make sense to turn to Maeda in the 5th inning and have him pitch through the 7th, depending on the circumstances. Then we can turn the game over to some combination of Thielbar, Pagan, Jax, Stewart, and Duran for the 8th and beyond. 

[Brandon]

I think Meada has earned the starting job in the playoffs.  I hope he gets it.  I also hope the Twins resign him to a 2 year deal this offseason.

Also I don’t think the Twins will announce game three starter till after game 2 is played.  Just in case one of Ryan or Meada ends up in a game in relief before game 3.

[danielp19653]

Feel a little bad for Maeda, he's been more consistent than Ryan down the stretch and I'm a little nervous about potential fatigue issues with Ober after his rest. To me it seems like Maeda is getting moved to the bullpen less because of his performance this year and more because we have no idea if Ryan or Ober could pitch effectively out of the pen.

[Muppet]

If they need another bullpen arm, it would have to be Maeda as he's the one with proven bullpen experience. He's better as a starter than Ryan or Ober, but not by enough. However, with the emergence of Paddack and Varland as potential top notch bullpen pieces, it is likely that they won't need Maeda in the back of games. 

[JD-TWINS]

If Paddack has enough command to make the roster it’s a big deal for the Pen! (35 - 50 pitches)

Varland looks very sharp for 1-2 inning stints! (35 - 50 pitches)

Maeda is a solid option! (60 pitches)

If Stewart gets rostered & pitches this week our Pen is loaded on paper!!! (15 - 25 pitches)

Pagan - Jax - Thielbar - Duran

Funderburk may stick for spot duty v. LH hitters.

[IndianaTwin]

6 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Let me start off by saying that while there are obviously no guarantees regarding the length of the Twins' postseason run, the team has to be prudent and plan for the possibility of 22 games.

Only three starters are needed for round one of the postseason. A fourth starter will need to be rostered for the second round but may not be needed until the third round. Barring injury it's unlikely that a fifth starter would be needed, and if a five-man rotation were to be used it would probably not be implemented until late in the third round at the soonest. So one of Maeda, Ober, and Ryan needs to be designated as a reliever for the first two rounds and probably beyond. Of those three I think Maeda is unquestionably the best suited to pitch in relief. I also think the team would get the most value from those three by having Maeda available to pitch in relief, especially in the first two rounds. That makes Ryan the third starter and Ober the fourth, with Maeda a reliever (and possible fifth starter late in the postseason).

I think it's also worth pointing out that we are fortunate to have five pitchers who appear capable of doing well as starters in the postseason, with Varland and Keuchel as emergency fallback options.

1. I'll highlight and agree with any comment that includes your last paragraph. It's great to be discussing five good options, rather than clamoring for who's available. 

2. I agree on at least considering the possibility of 22 games. Even with that, with off days and how the schedule lays out, there's no need to use the 5th starter, unless you want to make a swap for injury or other reason. 

3. However, that does mean that you could have up to five starts for your No. 4 starter. Good as Ober has been, I just don't see them planning him having another regular season start and then up to five more in the postseason. That could easily be another 30 innings on top of the 132.2 MLB and 22.2 in the minors. That would be 185 total. I think that puts him in the bullpen. Personally, I'd prefer they started Keuchel Tuesday night and planned for a couple innings of Ober and a couple from Paddack, no matter the game situation. 

4. So Ryan and Maeda as Nos. 3 and 4, in some combination. As noted above, I lean toward Maeda at 3, but either is very defensible. 

5. I think we'll have our clue by Friday night. Ober-Lopez-Gray are announced to get the Oakland series Tuesday-Thursday. Staying in order would give Maeda and Ryan on Friday and Saturday, each on five days' rest. Either one could come back the following Thursday, Maeda on five days and Ryan on four. IF the plan is to go with Ryan in Game 3, I think we'll see Ryan get this Friday's game, which he could do on four days rest. That would mean going on four days rest THEN five, rather than five then four.

6. See point 1. I'm glad to even be having the discussion of whether Keuchel belongs on the roster. I'm with pretty much everyone above in saying "no," but it speaks to their depth. I think he gets a "thanks for your service/rest the other guys" courtesy start on Sunday.   

[2wins87]

 

13 hours ago, Linus said:

Noticed that as well. I kind of think it is a coin flip between Maeda Ryan and Ober. Maedas bullpen success was many years ago so I don’t think we should assume similar performance but it would be nice. 

I'm more concerned about his recent performance as a starter, which has been good, so I think that should be able to translate.  I think the prior experience in the bullpen just tells you that he'll know what he needs to do to be ready from his first pitch, and you would have more questions trying to transition Ryan and Ober this late in the season.

Maeda might have the best argument to be the 3rd starter, though you could also pretty easily argue for Ober who I think will probably not be a factor at all in the wild-card round.  But if you trust Maeda more than Ryan and Ober, putting him in the bullpen, at least for the WC, might be the biggest impact.  Maybe you plan to have him on call for a quick hook situation in game 3, but he could also get 2 or 3 critical innings in game 2 if the bullpen is heavily used in game 1.  Or he might even get into game 1 and be a potential option in game 3 as well.

I have a hard time deciding who I'd most like to see start a potential game 3, but I see the logic behind putting Maeda in the pen with his experience and his overall success this year.

[Squirrel]

7 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Of those three I think Maeda is unquestionably the best suited to pitch in relief

Why do you think that? Both he and Ober have experience in the pen. So what makes Maeda a better reliever? A RP, imo, needs more velocity. Wouldn’t that be Ober? I have no issues with Maeda in the pen, but I just want to know why people proclaim Maeda the better reliever. I also think Maeda has been the better starter over Ober, and maybe over Ryan, too, recently. Maybe in the next round the two of them could combine in a piggy back as the 4th starter.

[D.C Twins]

As anticipated...

[Craig Arko]

Where are Bundy and Archer in this scheme? 😝

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

There was a good point in some article about the Twins playoff rotation recently—maybe it was Do-Hyoung Park on the MLB site (?)—saying that the best choice of 3rd starter may depend on who the opponent was, and the difference of "style" or repertoire between the pitchers. Ryan's heavy use of the fastball high in the zone might play well against one team while Maeda's offspeed and breaking stuff plays well against another. Of course, they don't know who their first-round opponent is yet.

I kind of wanted to see Maeda in that third slot. But if he pitches once or twice out of the bullpen, multiple innings, he's probably not too far off his regular routine if and when they want him to slot back into the rotation. 

[HarmonK03]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

Why do you think that? Both he and Ober have experience in the pen. So what makes Maeda a better reliever? A RP, imo, needs more velocity. Wouldn’t that be Ober? I have no issues with Maeda in the pen, but I just want to know why people proclaim Maeda the better reliever. I also think Maeda has been the better starter over Ober, and maybe over Ryan, too, recently. Maybe in the next round the two of them could combine in a piggy back as the 4th starter.

When has Ober pitched out of the pen?  We know Maeda has done it in the playoffs and you know he will be ready to pitch when needed.

[USAFChief]

I'd rather see Maeda start game three than Ryan.

And I would give little or no thought to subsequent series when making that decision. 

Win the WC round, THEN worry about the Division Series.

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I'd rather see Maeda start game three than Ryan.

And I would give little or no thought to subsequent series when making that decision. 

Win the WC round, THEN worry about the Division Series.

I'm fairly confident they agree....fairly. (on the last part)

[GusGus11]

10 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Let me start off by saying that while there are obviously no guarantees regarding the length of the Twins' postseason run, the team has to be prudent and plan for the possibility of 22 games.

Only three starters are needed for round one of the postseason. A fourth starter will need to be rostered for the second round but may not be needed until the third round. Barring injury it's unlikely that a fifth starter would be needed, and if a five-man rotation were to be used it would probably not be implemented until late in the third round at the soonest. So one of Maeda, Ober, and Ryan needs to be designated as a reliever for the first two rounds and probably beyond. Of those three I think Maeda is unquestionably the best suited to pitch in relief. I also think the team would get the most value from those three by having Maeda available to pitch in relief, especially in the first two rounds. That makes Ryan the third starter and Ober the fourth, with Maeda a reliever (and possible fifth starter late in the postseason).

I think it's also worth pointing out that we are fortunate to have five pitchers who appear capable of doing well as starters in the postseason, with Varland and Keuchel as emergency fallback options.

I agree wtih basically your whole post. Only thing I will add is there is absolutely no chance we do a 5 man rotation at any point in the playoffs.

Off days provide ample rest. We are not holding back throwing Lopez and Gray as much as possible on normal rest. 7 game series will see us using a 4 man.

[Azviking101]

Very happy to see that Ryan’s velocity was back for his final start but I still would rather have Maeda start a potential game 3. 
 

As a Mn fan I know not to get ahead of myself but just to point out, the ALDS would begin on 10/7. This what if scenario is all dependent on the twins moving on and playing all 3 games. Assuming the Twins aren’t going to have people pitch on short rest in round 2, whoever is designated the 4th starter likely pitches game 1 of the ALDS. At this point Maeda will either be game 3 starter or in the bullpen so game 1 of the ALDS comes down to Ryan or Ober. I’d rather see Ryan if we win the series. That would make Maeda the best choice for 3rd starter. 
 

Like I said, it’s a big what if cause twins have to win and it has to go all 3 games for this to play out. 

[Rosterman]

I didn't see Moran being 60-day. Good move.

Nice if Keuchel is still in the mix. A third lefty out of the pen who MIGHT pitch 1-2-3 innins could be a plus.

The joy is you can keep whomever you plan to start Game #1 of the second series off the roster, and use a solid reliever. And, yes, you worry about Game #3 if you win Game #1.

[stringer bell]

The way I see it for Round 1 of the postseason: Three starters--López, Gray and Ryan. Three starters as middle relief-piggyback options--Paddack, Varland, Maeda. Five late relievers--Stewart, Thielbar, Pagán, Jax and Duran. 

If the Twins win the first round in two games, Ryan starts the next series, otherwise it is Bailey Ober.