Twins 20, Guardians 6: Twins Bats on Fire, Bury Guardians in Series Opener

[LewFordLives]

9 hours ago, adjacent said:

I know it was a whooping for the ages. But what do you think about putting a position player to pitch..in the sixth inning! Less that 2/3 of the game. I know Francona is a great manager, and I understand why he did it. But to me that is kind of disrespectful to the people who pay their tickets to see a major league game. 

I concur. I understand him not wanting to burn up his bullpen, but don't they have at least one long -guy they could have run out there to get through at least a couple more innings?  MLB needs to revisit this issue.  Maybe allow a team to forfeit under certain circumstances. Fans don't want to watch it, and you don't want any players getting hurt for no reason.

[IaBeanCounter]

21 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

The rule is “down 10 runs you can pitch with a position player at any time, up 10 you can pitch with a position player in the 9th”.

I think you can use a position player when you are down 8.  A possible rule change would be to  use a PP when down 8 in the 8th, 10 in the 7th, 12 in the 6th, etc.  It wouldn't have made much difference last night.

[jmlease1]

Not impressed with Francona's decision to quit on the game and make a mockery of it with a position player chucking 56 mph meatballs for 4 innings. Want to do it in the 9th to save a pitcher? It's still a little silly, but whatever. I could even give you the 8th. But 4 innings? That was excruciating. (and frankly, we've seen teams make a game of it down 10 runs, so with 4 to play waving the white flag gets a raspberry from me)

Too bad Headrick couldn't find the zone and get another inning, but that's the only negative.

Royce Lewis is healthy and letting his talent shine. I love it. So happy for that dude.

Polanco being back and healthy is great for this team as well. Still such a good player and when he's rolling this lineup is much more dangerous

[umterp23]

Once the BP show started, turned it off to watch Duke upset Clemson.  If you waive the flag in the 6th, might as well just implemented the good ole Slaughter Rule and packed it up. Will never happen as people pay money, concessions, etc. but it's not a good look for MLB to have such a brutal 55mph lob fest going on.  

Bury the Guardians today and tomorrow.  

[Peter]

Total domination!!! With sonny and Ryan pitching next 2 games time to finish off Cleveland and win division!!! Go Twins!!!

[saviking]

WEll, I've been hard on him but I've got to give credit where credit is due. Gallo sure can hit catchers ...

[Karbo]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

The rule is “down 10 runs you can pitch with a position player at any time, up 10 you can pitch with a position player in the 9th”.

That's why it needs to be changed to not before the 8th inning and only if you trail by 10 IMO.

[Dman]

I too thought the 6th was early to pack it in but upon reflection this is Cleveland's last gasp.  With that game lost they absolutely need at least one to have the tie breaker over the Twins and would love to win the last two as it essentially gets them an extra game closer because a tie would go to Cleveland because they will have won the series. 

I don't think this is something that would happen earlier in the season at least in the 6th inning if it weren't that he needs his best arms for Tuesday and Wednesday.  If they just win one of the next two it is like getting two games back and the closer they get to the Twins the greater chances of something bouncing there way.  You hate to see a team give up on a game that early but given the stakes it makes sense to me.

If the Twins really want this to be over they need to sweep the Guardians as they have the starting pitching and bullpen to compete even with the good teams it is just scoring runs that seems to be holding them back this year.  The Twins have the upper hand regardless of outcomes but it would be nice to rest some arms and get guys ready for the playoffs.  If Cleveland wins the next two things are going to get tight.

[DJL44]

Giolito was awful. So glad the Guardians picked him up.

[Linus]

I don’t blame Rocco one bit for pitching Castro. Otherwise we actually use up our bullpen more than Cleveland does. The game was a farce - imagine paying big money for some great seats and you watch the backup catcher pitch four innings.  I caution everyone to not get too excited. This team frequently follows big offensive games with nothing for several games after

[Nine of twelve]

11 hours ago, adjacent said:

…what do you think about putting a position player to pitch..in the sixth inning!…to me that is kind of disrespectful to the people who pay their tickets to see a major league game. 

I very strongly disagree. Terry Francona knew that the chance of winning last night’s game was infinitesimal. His objective is to win the AL Central division. He needs to use any means within the rules to that end. Trying to set his team up to win the next two games was of highest importance. He needed to protect his bullpen. Using a position player to pitch was by far the best thing he could have done. Burning relief pitchers in that situation would have been disrespectful to any knowledgeable fan and to the game.

[Otaknam]

It’s been a season of just when I think the Twins are getting over the hump they lose 3-4 straight to bad teams like KC or Detroit. So now they have a chance for a knockout blow against the Guardians. Will they get it done or fall back into the season long pattern of lack of offense? We’ll have an answer by Wednesday evening. 

[Otaknam]

4 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

I very strongly disagree.Terry Francona knew that the chance of winning last night’s game was infinitesimal. His objective is to win the AL Central division. He needs to use any means within the rules to that end. Trying to set his team up to win the next two games was of highest importance. He needed to protect his bullpen. Using a position player to pitch was by far the best thing he could have done. Burning relief pitchers in that situation would have been disrespectful to any knowledgeable fan and to the game.

Francona made his decisions based on trying to stay within striking distance of the Twins. His team was already behind by double digits, so an epic comeback was not likely given his team’s offensive struggles. Saving the bullpen for today and tomorrow was more important, even though it became batting practice. 

[madtowntwin]

Hentges and De Los Santos have thrown 2 days in a row for the Guardians and should be unavailable today...Lopez, and to a greater extent Maeda, both look like they could use some respite. Gray is on the mound today with Joe tomorrow. Ryan seems to be trending back to baseline in terms of recent performance after his 'IL Rest." Three straight over the Guardians and getting to their bullpen early again today would be huge for a number of reasons obviously. One of which would be getting our starters extra rest as the "Dog Days" extend....Ober back after this series??? Win Twins. 

[Fat Calvin]

3 hours ago, bighat said:

Remember when Miguel Sano hit a grand slam a few years ago to shut the door on Cleveland and essentially clinch the division for the Twins? That Royce Lewis slam kinda had that same feeling. 

Nice statement win. Get these next 2 and we can hit the cruise control button. 

Yeah, I remember the look on Francona's face when he did it.  Priceless!

[chinmusic]

4 hours ago, Karbo said:

IMO it just was a mockery.

I don't think so. I think Rocco would have preferred to have Headrick go the final 3. (in a perfect world)

Today and tomorrow are super important, so after Headrick and Floro, that was enough relief staff usage.

It was a tactical move; just like Francona's use of Fry.

Made for an odd last few innings, for sure, but both managers are just trying to win.

[Squirrel]

36 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

I very strongly disagree. Terry Francona knew that the chance of winning last night’s game was infinitesimal. His objective is to win the AL Central division. He needs to use any means within the rules to that end. Trying to set his team up to win the next two games was of highest importance. He needed to protect his bullpen. Using a position player to pitch was by far the best thing he could have done. Burning relief pitchers in that situation would have been disrespectful to any knowledgeable fan and to the game.

I get what Francona was doing, and that it was within the rules. Good for him. But at that point it becomes an unwatchable game for me. At that point that game is over because the manager has acknowledged they weren’t going to win and they weren’t even going to try. I get it, he was saving his BP for the next game. Then pack it up and go home. It becomes a non-professional game out there at that point. Either way the fans don’t get what they paid for.

The thing is, because they were losing, they get to save their pitching, but the opponents do not, according to the rules. That doesn’t seem fair, If they want out of the game in the 6th inning, pack it in and go home.

[adjacent]

31 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

I very strongly disagree. Terry Francona knew that the chance of winning last night’s game was infinitesimal. His objective is to win the AL Central division. He needs to use any means within the rules to that end. Trying to set his team up to win the next two games was of highest importance. He needed to protect his bullpen. Using a position player to pitch was by far the best thing he could have done. Burning relief pitchers in that situation would have been disrespectful to any knowledgeable fan and to the game.

I know why he did it alright. But still, the people who pay the tickets went to see an MLB baseball game, not a guy lobbing the ball over the plate for more than an hour.

I remember Francona was an extreme case of optimizing bullpen match-ups, leading to infinite delays and ultimately to a change of rules. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually MLB tweaks the rules in cases like this as well.

 

[FlyingFinn]

A manager's job is to win as many games as possible under the rules of the game. If Cleveland wins the next two by one run because of the bullpen and then miraculously catches up to the Twins, you will see a lot of comments that Francona made a brilliant move on Labor Day.

In the NFL, players will stop at the 1 yard line so the other teams have no chance of winning. Would any manager dare to tell the runners not to run home so the opposing team can't pitch a non-pitcher, thus forcing the Guardians to keep using up their pitchers in this case? MLB definitely needs to change the rules because what's next, the Guardians pitchers are lobbing balls in at 58 mph to save their arms..................

[DJL44]

4 minutes ago, adjacent said:

I know why he did it alright. But still, the people who pay the tickets went to see an MLB baseball game, not a guy lobbing the ball over the plate for more than an hour.

They knew Giolito was the scheduled starter. :)

[DJL44]

3 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

MLB definitely needs to change the rules because what's next, the Guardians pitchers are lobbing balls in at 58 mph to save their arms..................

How about after you get down by 10 runs you have the option to just put a tee on home plate?

[Daniel Anderson]

It takes most people a bit of an effort to go to a game, so out of respect for your fans I think that while the home team has a position player pitch at least some concessions should be free. For 4 innings of it last night the Cleveland fans should have gotten a refund.

[cmoss84]

Castro needs to be added to the bullpen usage spreadsheet! He might have to do this again today or tomorrow! 

[Rosterman]

It ended up being a bad exhibition game. Made you ralize that hitters can have trouble hitting bad pitches, too. Why a pitcher just throwing strikes still has a better than 50/50 chance of getting an out.

It's not like there was a lot of "guessing" where the ball was being thrown by eitehr Fry or especially (anywhere but over the plate) Castro.

Looks like the Twins did dodge a bullet on one of the Angels waiver wire arms. Will be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets in the off-season.

So, keep Headrick, or swap him out for Moran for the moment. And do you think the Twins will need to make a decision on Styewark, Paddack and Alcala for possible playoff work?

Who goes when Taylor, Kirilloff...and maybe Buxton and Gordon ask for a return to the major league roster?

Anyone else wish rosters were able to expand fully with more September callups? What was nice was that a few players got an at bat or an inning or two as the season wound down, plus was able to sit on the major league bench. You could reward a couple of journeymen (Stevenson is an example) and allow them to get some "pension" time. But msotly you got to see someone like Fundeburk who can then get some hints on what to work on in the off-season.

Interesting concept. Release ALL your free agents to get salary relief, create a bad team on the field.

 

 

[David Maro]

Nice to see them add on inning after inning. To many times they scored early then nothing and needing to score late to win. I think Kepler was the only one who didn't score or have a hit. No time to rest tonight,need to get to Bibee early. Get his pitch count up early like they did with Giolito. Thankfully the FO didn't get the opportunity to bring him in. Time to go on a winning streak and win the division.

[Mike Sixel]

The less I say about the mockery it turned into, the better.

Royce is legit and Lopez was a great trade. That's the important parts for me. 

[IaBeanCounter]

Just checked umpscorecard for the game and the umpire favored Cle by .73 runs.  He called 10 strikes as balls.  In a blowout I'm surprised he didn't expand the strike zone so that anything close was a strike,  He only called 2 true balls as strikes,

[P Meyer]

Lewis has been awesome. Polanco back at home playing 2B. Two very clutch hitters. Hopefully this enables Correa to relax at the plate a bit and not put so much pressure on himself to carry the team. Julien, Wallner, and Solano are going to have ups and downs, but as long as the timely hitting continues, wins should follow.

[USNMCPO]

17 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Lewis is looking like the player we have dreamed of the last three seasons - how great is this!  

 

Perhaps this is becoming Lewis' team right before our eyes. CC4 is a great player but injuries are slowing him down. Buxton, I fear, will never be healthy.

[gman]

Position players pitching in a blowout, so what? That's been happening for 100 years probably more. I've seen pitchers pinch hit in critical situations. I've seen pitchers pinch run because they were the fastest player available. I've seen  a game where a pitcher was sent to play left field, because someone got injured and there were no position players left. I saw a game where a starting pitcher was moved to another position, while a  reliever came in to get one batter out. Then the starter was moved back to the mound. It's part of the game.