Complacent Twins Front Office Stands Pat at the Trade Deadline

[Vanimal46]

11 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

My guess is still that ownership told them no, they’ve made enough poor decisions and now they sleep in the bed they made. They’re not giving up the next GM’s equity so these guys can try to fix their own mess.

I think you may be on to something. Or maybe that’s just wishful thinking to move past this FO and manager trio after the season. 

[tony&rodney]

There have already been too many posts and comments on the trades in the last year. I'm not understanding anyone who is frozen because of those trades. The Mahle trade, which I opposed and then accepted because it showed movement towards trying to win, cost the Twins a couple of players who were stuck behind Correa, Arreaz, Miranda, Polanco, Kirilloff, Julien, Lewis, Lee, and a couple of others. Good for Steer, CES, and the Reds. The Jorge Lopez trade looked painless to most and was lauded at the time. I was a big Cade Povich fan, but never thought for a second that Cano would reinvent himself as an all star. So it seemed ok. Again, tough but good for the Orioles. The Pablo Lopez trade that cost Arraez was controversial and I supported it then and still do. So there was significant backlash and now the Twins do nothing. Trades are risky at times but they remain a way to improve the team. It felt like there were teams that may have been interested in working with the Twins. I'm concerned if there was, in fact, zero interest in any of the players within the Twins system. Do nothing doesn't reflect well on the negotiation skills of the management folks. One wonders where the Pohlads sit on the issue. The attendance in August and September will be important to them it seems. If you look around the league there are plenty of games played before 30-40,000+ fans on a routine basis. But maybe the Pohlads like it in the middle, right where the Twins are now.

[Maybebaby]

Did Tony Olivia, Rod Carew sit against lefties?  Did Puckett, Killebrew, Allison sit against righties.  Just play your best players and see how it plays out.  🧐

[mikelink45]

Our entire division is behind every team in the American league East and West except for Oakland. And then we don't do anything? This is really a sad situation. We didn't need to sell out on all our prospects and we didn't have to go for the highest profile out there, but do something. This front office really frustrates me 

[tony&rodney]

19 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Sorry, but I would NOT have been satisfied with a low wattage move or two. They need an elite bat, that can hit righties and lefties, for the middle of the lineup. 
 

Anything else would just be a band aid necessitated because of a terribly constructed roster aimed at “depth” and defense, sacrificing needed chances for a higher offensive ceiling.

This front office has been very aggressive. This is abnormal for them. My guess is still that ownership told them no, they’ve made enough poor decisions and now they sleep in the bed they made. They’re not giving up the next GM’s equity so these guys can try to fix their own mess.

Sure seems like it. That is also not in character for the Pohlads.

[Jocko87]

50 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

After last season, I'm okay with this. 

Not having anything to do with last season, I’m also kinda OK with this with one big expectation. There have to be follow on moves within the current roster. 

Kuechel is only the first part.  Gordon and Paddock and maybe Mancini 🤢 will require roster moves. I can understand that there are a ton of moving parts here but can’t believe there wasn’t a move that made everything easier.

[Winston Smith]

48 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Not good enough to invest further resources on.

Not bad enough to sell off as spare parts.

But don't worry.  They "inquired" on any number of players.  And pundits deemed them "good fits" for some others.  Some serious tire-kicking must have occurred, too.

Ladies and gentlemen, here is the poster franchise for sustainable, championship-caliber team-building, your 2023 Minnesota Twins!

"The goal here is straight-forward and measurable," Falvey said on Monday. "It's to build a sustainable, championship-caliber team, an organization that Twins fans will be proud of." -- Derek Falvey, November 2016
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/11/07/new-twins-front-office-hits-the-ground-running/93452688/

 

I'm afraid I'll be ashes before this comes true with this front office.

[2wins87]

No move is better than bad moves... but still, I'm not sure how they could not even pick up another rental reliever.

They have a clear need, it wouldn't have cost a big prospect, and there are several guys on the bottom of the roster who could easily be optioned

And if they want to roll with their guys why not eat Gallo's contract and flip him for something minimal to let the young guys have a chance to play.

I don't think Kirilloff's shoulder should have changed that unless the prognosis is months.

[TNtwins85]

26 minutes ago, Sutter50 said:

Ok 

It's put up or shut up time for the players,the coaching staff, and the front office.  If they don't win the division and at least 1 playoff game The Pohlad's will have to clean house.

Unless they go on a playoff run I think we’ll see a very different team come 2024. I think FO will still be in but the days of Kepler and Polanco are gone. Gallo retires when nobody signs him. As well as maybe Baldelli and company gone. Find a spot for Lee and Lewis to coexist on the roster without having to play 4 different positions. Varland will be in the rotation. Figure out if Wallner and Larnach can PLAY. Buxton will live and die in CF once again. And hopefully the bullpen can figure something out with another year of guys trying their hands getting key outs. No tear down but kinda what everyone want has wanted. Maybe a FA rotational piece and buy low guy sprinkled in there. If they make a postseason run….well, we’ll burn that bridge when we get there.

[LA Vikes Fan]

39 minutes ago, SteveLV said:

At a minimum clear out some of the dead, veteran wood and promote some of the minor league players to see if they can play at the MLB level and possibly provide a spark, ala Julien and Wallner.

Please.

This. I'm fine with no trades. Larnach was the guy most mentioned and I rather have him than trade him for an older rental. We will need him next year when Gallo, MAT, and possibly Kepler is gone.  All of this is fine IF they move out Gallo, and play the younger players going forward. It's not ok if we are treated to lots of ABs given to guys like MAT, Gallo and Solano. 

[LastOnePicked]

54 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

Trades involve risk. People beg for them all the time and then act shocked when the downside plays out. That's part of playing the game – doesn't mean you shouldn't play it. 

I don't think it's quite the roulette wheel you make it out to be. A smarter FO would have been very wary of Mahle's injury history. A smarter FO would have taken a hard look at Lopez's career numbers before his blip of success. Yes, there's always a bit of the unknown and a bit of luck, but fans have been wanting impact trades that don't damage the immediate and near future. The trades they made last year damaged their chances both last year and this year, That's a result far worse than the average deadline risks.

[PatPfund]

I'm totally OK with this. The most interesting players are the young ones. I had zero interest in adding another fading veteran roadblock to players who either need to cut it in extended play, or be moved on from. Adding Pham to send Wallner back down to the minors doesn't make this team better.

I would have loved another arm or two, but we also have arms all over our 40-man that should either produce or be let go. Maybe a couple come through (like Headrick or Varland or Keuchel). There are even interesting bats at AAA we haven't seen yet (Williams, Stevenson, Prato). Let's roll with what we have, DFA Gallo, IL Byron so he's ready for the post-season, and see what happens!!

[LastOnePicked]

16 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Our entire division is behind every team in the American league East and West except for Oakland. And then we don't do anything? This is really a sad situation. We didn't need to sell out on all our prospects and we didn't have to go for the highest profile out there, but do something. This front office really frustrates me 

Here's what I find funny: Cleveland has so little fear of us that they turned themselves into sellers and are probably still certain they can take this thing.

[D.C Twins]

Dude.... watching the Central Sh- Show play out is going to be hilarious.... 

There is a bigger chance that the Central SH- Show causes baseball realignment or playoff rule changes next year than the Twins winning the WS.

I'm. Not. Kidding.

[Joey Self]

32 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

There have already been too many posts and comments on the trades in the last year. I'm not understanding anyone who is frozen because of those trades. 1, The Mahle trade, which I opposed and then accepted because it showed movement towards trying to win, cost the Twins a couple of players who were stuck behind Correa, Arreaz, Miranda, Polanco, Kirilloff, Julien, Lewis, Lee, and a couple of others. Good for Steer, CES, and the Reds. 2.The Jorge Lopez trade looked painless to most and was lauded at the time. I was a big Cade Povich fan, but never thought for a second that Cano would reinvent himself as an all star. So it seemed ok. Again, tough but good for the Orioles. 3. The Pablo Lopez trade that cost Arraez was controversial and I supported it then and still do. So there was significant backlash and now the Twins do nothing. Trades are risky at times but they remain a way to improve the team. It felt like there were teams that may have been interested in working with the Twins. 4. I'm concerned if there was, in fact, zero interest in any of the players within the Twins system. 5.Do nothing doesn't reflect well on the negotiation skills of the management folks. 

I put the numbers in for ease of reference.

1.  You put your finger on why I didn't dislike the Mahle trade at the time--which is the only fair way to judge it.  When overstocked in one position, deal with a team that needs help there.  

2.  I didn't like it at the time, but I saw more in Cano than you did, I think. 

3.  I hated the Arraez trade, and still do.  

4.  That means that the team is playing guys that no one else wanted.  The other 29 teams aren't run by dummies.  

5.   But if what they were offered--if anything--in return for the players they were willing to move was insufficient, then the management did what it should do:  Nothing.  Making a move just to make one (unless it was getting rid of Gallo!!) is not the answer. 

JcS

[TwinsDiehard4Life]

I’m fine with not going all in on a player/s that ultimately won’t help them make or even win a single game in the postseason but not even trading for any kind of relief help beyond jettisoning away last years failed trade is sad yet not surprising. F & L have done nothing to improve this team during their tenure and Baldelli is the most passive manager I’ve ever seen in my life. Nobody in this organization has been held accountable. It’s time to clean house and F & L should be the first to go with Baldelli and his staff right behind them.  

[Brandon]

Well,  We traded for Floro, just got back Theilbar and Polanco, Should get Lewis back soon.  We have to do something with Keuchel or not.  

The big struggles for this season has been the failure of Gallo, and the let down of Correa and Buxton.  with improvement from these three our offense is much better overall.  

if we could have traded for a middle reliever that would have been nice.  also a RH bat.  but that's it and complaining about not doing that is nit picking.  but I get it.  so be heard.  but realize there is no needle moving trade that was going to happen today.  

 

[Chris Spencer]

They are on a losing streak and showed the front office how bad they are. I'm glad we didn't trade any young talent. I was on the sell side.

[gunnarthor]

I suspect we will end up regretting not trading Gray but we'll see. 

We're not a good team but we're in the AL Central so we will make the playoffs and that'll probably be enough to keep the FO and Rocco around. I agree that if they thought they were on the hot seat, something would have been done. 

I'm not really surprised by today. But I'm sad that I'm feeling numb to the Twins. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I may be the only one, but I am content with the Twins not making any trades before the deadline, other than Lopez. I still think this is a good team, waiting for the spark Royce Lewis will surely bring soon.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

2 hours ago, NeverSeenATwinsPlayoffWin said:

... I wish they had added a Brad Hand/Brent Suter/Andrew Chafin/David Peterson. There was no reason to seriously spend for a bat (especially when the market was so thin this year), but you should always look to add mid-leverage relievers at deadlines if you're competing.

This is a good point—it's hard to see why they couldn't have found some suitable #20-something-ranked prospect who they could stomach giving up to add depth to the bullpen. (Guessing you meant Robertson instead of Peterson?)

I also wonder whether they really couldn't have found a rookie-ball player the Mets liked just a little more than whoever they got from the D-backs for Tommy Pham...that was never going to be a costly deal and he seemed to make a lot of sense as a role player.

[silverslugger]

After everything I've read it seems that there are two ways to put a positive spin on today's developments.  Either you can say that this is addition by subtraction, everyone else in the division subtracted and we didn't, so that's addition.  Or you can say that this was a positive since this front office didn't make a mistake. 

Serious question.  At this point, do either Correa or Buxton have any trade value?  Are they simply salary dumps?  At what point in their respective contracts would they be perceived as having trade value?  They are supposed to be the face of this franchise in the field.  One can't get on the field and the other doesn't warm up until July.  I'd ask if Baldelli has trade value as well, but...  I just don't see much leadership value there.

[DocBauer]

Before I get too deep here, I want to make 2 things very clear:

1] There's a lot of things about this team I'm not happy about, and most of it revolves around more injuries, failed results by more than a handful of veterans, and some stubbornness by the FO. 

2] I'm not happy about ZERO activity, which I will get to, but I am by no means knee jerk reacting to some "fire everyone" mantra that suddenly seems prevalent. First of all, that dismisses any and all good things that HAVE happened to the Twins the past several years, as well as improvements throughout the milb system. If any jobs are on the line...and I believe there are right now...it starts with coaches, then the manager, and then the FO. That's how these things work. And while I am generally "pro" the FO for many, many reasons, I'm also very happy to speak out against them as well, which again, I will get to.

All that being said, I'm only mildly surprised they didn't make any moves today. And here's why...from my projection of the FO beliefs:

A] Despite all the maddening inconsistencies of this silly team, there's still a lot of good ballplayers here. There's every reason they can still win the ALC, get a home played 3 game series, and maybe just win 2 of 3.

B] A single, OK, solid, RH bat isn't going to change the ineptitude against LH pitching this year. No Miranda, an extremely disappointing and frustrating Buxton, and an OK Correa are seeing to that. Doesn't mean they shouldn't add one for 2024, but very doubtful one OK bat was going to make a difference now.

C] Thielbar back helps the pen. A couple young arms are showing at least a little more flash and potential. Stewart maybe being gone is a blow. Floro is better than than the useless Lopez right now. And one of the starters will move to the pen come playoff time.

D] They have FINALLY trusted in Julien, and Kirilloff...who will hopefully be back soon...as well as having Lewis back in August. They also are FINALLY realizing it's been a mistake to not run with Wallner and give him a real shot. You can also add the still young and improved Jeffers to this group.

All very real and logical reasons to stick with what they have, trust in the vets to perform better, keep trusting in the kids doing better, keep all the young talent you can...along with not dumping Gray or Maeda...and take a shot at winning the ALC and maybe a playoff game or two. Not a completely unrealistic opinion for a team that probably won't make a serious run this year.

And to be perfectly honest, I've been completely surprised, almost blown away, at how many teams decided NOT to sell. Teams that have 30% or less of a chance to reach the playoffs decided to buy and go for it. 

As a fan, I can understand the Twins FO staying pat. But I still disagree with it. Ashbury quoted Falvey from November of 2016 when he took over. But we all have to remember is the key quote there: "to build a sustainable, championship caliber team". Folks, you have ZERO shot at a championship...or anything close to it...UNLESS YOU MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. The Twins made the playoffs THREE of the previous 6yrs, and only massive injuries denied them a 4th opportunity in 2022 where they were in 1st place almost the entire season before things collapsed. What they did most of 2022 is why they were so aggressive at the deadline to push this team over the top. So we can't so BOO to going for it 1yr, and then say BOO for holding back the next. 

But here is where I disagree with the FO on TWO points:

1] Just getting to the playoffs means you have a chance. Witness the Royals a few years back, the Braves a couple years ago, the Phillies last year, and even our beloved '87 Twins WS team decades ago. Just making the playoffs is goal #1! And this team can still do so. But despite a number of teams not selling, which undoubtedly shrunk the pool, there were still enough guys at hand to at least add an inexpensive rental arm to freshen up the pen, wasn't there? Just 1, maybe a 2nd, rental arms for A and fringe AA prospects should have at least allowed better depth to keep the pitching going SHOULD have been available, even if there wasn't a RH bat you liked enough to acquire.

2] The nice thing about rentals is if they "fit" you can always re-sign them.

The FO SHOULDN'T have sold low on veterans or prospects with a STILL realistic chance to have a winning season, and a potential ALC banner, and very possibly a PLAYOFF WIN. Dare to say at least a SHOT for a 1st round playoff series win! How much fun would that be after 18yrs of frustration? But what they SHOULD have done is buy a couple rental arms on the cheap and not settled for Floro and Thielbar "hopefully" back.

So while I can "get" no moves at the deadline, I can sorta understand it, even if I don't agree with it. It either fills our team with some confidence and a challenge to get better and "do it"! OR, it states they don't believe in the 2023 team they constructed. 

Taking this further...and we'll have the entire offseason to discuss these issues...the FO constructed 90% of a very good team for 2023, and then stopped. And I've stated this many times. If you pay attention to the draft and milb system, you will see that they have continued to look for power bats, but have also been looking at HIT ability and speed. But change doesn't happen overnight at the ML level. IMO, they shouldn't have signed Gallo, even though I understood the rebound flier. But even once they did, they should have moved Kepler, on a downturn, for whatever they could get for him. EITHER WAY, they handcuffed themselves financially instead of "risking" a real look at Gordon, Larnach, Kirilloff, and Wallner. And they have paid the price.

I'm not even going to go down the Pagan rabbit hole yet again! (Though it's tempting). Trusting in your young talent, even with some risk, is what you do as a mid market team with talent on hand. ONE of Gallo or Kepler gone was enough to sign a solid RH bat that we needed at the deadline. NOT including Taylor as a bad trade because hes actually been important in a lot of ways. And just a small stretch of payroll to re-sign Fulmer...who was recently considered a smart trade option until the Cubs pulled back...would have been a welcome addition to the Twins pen. But we could have just kept him as insurance for a good pen vs hoping Alcala was going to be back.

So if the FO had signed a solid, dependable RH bat...instead of Gallo, or moved Kepler, and trusted in their prosoects....and had kept Fulmer...not an expensive signing...and maybe even kept Coulombe instead of some fringe reliever...the ENTIRE trade scenario we just saw might either be a better "moot" point...OR....a move for a difference maker.

My biggest problem remains an offseason that wax very good, but only went 90%.

 

[sorney]

100% love

[USAFChief]

---

Paul Sewald to AZ for nothing is the one that really pisses me off.

He'd have been a nice fit.

 

[AceWrigley]

3 hours ago, TNtwins85 said:

Well, not what I expected but yet maybe it’s what I expected.

This.

[AceWrigley]

Wouldn't it be ironic if the Twins "win" the Central with a sub .500 record and then go on a tear in the playoffs and get to the World Series. I think all our heads would implode

[Guest]

The FO got their fingers burned last year.  Let's see how Club Rocco responds....

[Cris E]

My big complaint for the trade season was around the bullpen.  They didn't need much, but they needed something.  Releasing the Stewert news at Deadline + 30 minutes means they held it back to save their negotiating position while trying to trade for a reliever. Once it didn't come together they let the world know how screwed we are in the pen. I wonder when they found out about the setback, and how serious it really is.  I wrote earlier this afternoon that I thought he'd been throwing with his heart all year and he finally realized he'd run off the edge of the cliff and broke down. If they spent two days knowing he wasn't coming back and still couldn't get any of the guys out there that's just bad work. I  like Jordan Blasogzcwizczz's work out of the pen as well as the next guy, but there were numerous and better options that moved very late today for very little. 

[Mike Sixel]

Gallo still has a job. 

Pathetic leadership, and I don't usually post words like that. Just awful.

Inaction is a decision, and Gallo isn't as good as either Wallner or Larnach. The young guys have almost universally been better than the veterans..... Maybe the FO should trust their decision to bring them into the system in the first place....

I figured this FO would do nothing.