Vanimal46

Wasn’t there murmurs of Rogers being non-tendered last year? Is there any risk he will be non-tendered this winter? I know Colomé has turned things around in the 2nd half, but I would have a hard time bringing him back for 2022. His performance in April torpedoed the season, frankly. Thielbar’s proving to be the real deal. Good for him. Breathing left handed pitchers always have a place on an MLB team. We also have a category of failed starters to sift through as well: Smeltzer, Thorpe (probably getting outright released), Gant, Jax.

Yes, I would have rather kept him through 2022. If we had been in this same situation staring at a losing season in July, I will reluctantly trade him then. I think it will be quite difficult replacing his 3 WAR baseline for $9-12 million (the price of his arb 3 season).

He’s had literally 3 playoff starts. Giving up 1 ER in each of his last 2 starts (9 IP). I guess it’s easy to get outdueled when your offense fails to show up to the ball field.

I hate on Cousins as much as any fan, but today wasn’t his fault… The play calling on offense in the 2nd half was head scratching to say the least. Kubiak has much to learn about being an OC. Why continue running Cook into the ground, especially when he’s hurt? The main culprit is the revamped defense we spent a ton of cash on for a quick turnaround. 479 yards given up, 371 in the air. Our secondary full of veterans was torched today. This is not a good endorsement for Zimmer. Vegas odds increased for him being fired mid season I would imagine.

You can’t make up that ending. So Vikings.

So many words. Zero definition. A salsa dancer, you are.

Well he’s 18th in fWAR this year so he makes your 2nd group. We can leave out the probably. Berrios evidently is criminally underrated around here.

So, an ace? Keep avoiding the question. Good stuff

I see you are dancing around the other question. How do you define an ace? How many do you think exist in baseball?

So much for throwing all of our money fixing the defense. Holy cow.

Oh great, Dalvin Cook in the injury tent…

My position is he’s a top 30 pitcher in baseball. Is he the best pitcher on the Dodgers? Absolutely not. But he would be on probably 20 teams. And he’s young enough to still progress to the level of Scherzer and whoever else you consider a true ace. The question is how do you define an ace? It’s more difficult to define now more than ever. Are there only 5 true aces? 10? Regardless, Berrios is very good. I’ll take him on my team all day every day. Martin better be good to great. I have no confidence SWR is going to contribute anything at the MLB level in the next calendar year. If ever.

Gibson and Odorizzi were fine complimentary pitchers, but it was always Berrios who was relied upon to be the savior ace. In Toronto, they have established veterans who were signed and very good (Ryu and Ray.) Berrios wasn’t traded for to be the savior of their pitching staff. He is an excellent compliment, and now that some pressure is off him to be a savior, he can relax, have fun, and pitch great.

Why do you think that is? It was a vast majority of the same position players from 2019/2020. And they all had a blast those years.

2018 was definitely an exception to your rule. You can admit it if you want an honest debate. Berrios 3.4 bWAR Odorizzi 1.2. Berrios was an all star again in 2019 with 3.1 bWAR, Odorizzi 3.5. He was better that year. Maeda was better for 11 starts in 2020 I’ll say that too. Who’s been better out of all 3 since 2017? Also, talk about taking my having fun out of context. He always had a smile and worked hard while he was here. While you build a pitching staff in Minnesota for 2022 and beyond, what criteria are you looking for? My guess is Berrios checks off many boxes. Durability, production, control, striking out players.

It’s almost like when he’s not relied on being the only hope for an ace in the organization he can have fun again and produce.

Defining an ace is more difficult than ever these days ago now that bullpens are soaking up more innings. Berrios is exactly the type of guy we would want to target in free agency. A bulldog who gives his team a chance to win almost every time he pitches. Never gets injured, and pitches 6-7 innings each outing. He’s done very well in Toronto. I expected him to keep up his production after he left us. And he’s done better. I am still not thrilled with the trade.

Agree with @chpettit19that it’s SS or bust. Seager is my top choice, Baez and Correa are in a tier slightly below him, Story in his own tier below them. Top fallback option is Chris Taylor if they miss the elite talents.

If I had any confidence in the organization paying a pitcher $100 million, I’d agree with you. I believe it’s an organizational philosophy set by ownership to not spend top dollar for starting pitching. Erv Santana remains the largest FA contract in team history and he was $13.5 million AAV IIRC. I have more confidence they’ll spend up for a top level SS who will play almost every game.

What kind of pitching can they get back for Larnach, Sano, Rooker, or… Sabato?

I like the call out for Chris Taylor too. Definitely a great fallback option if they aren’t able to attract the Seager/Baez/Story/Semien group.

I’d have Celestino waiting in AAA as Buxton insurance. To be honest I haven’t looked much at the FA OF market yet. Since I spent a huge amount signing Seager the 4th OF would have to be on the cheaper side. I don’t know if Garlick is the right guy. Hopefully someone a little better who is not just a platoon player against LH pitching. Then they can split time with Larnach in LF.

C - Jeffers and Garver 1B - Kirilloff with Sano there part time 2B - Polanco SS - Corey Seager or Javy Baez 3B - Donaldson and Miranda LF - Larnach CF - Buxton RF - Kepler 4th OF - RH hitting free agent Utility - Gordon DH - Sano and Donaldson Assumptions - Twins go big in the SS FA market. Seager is my top priority. Garver is becoming more injury prone; perhaps he learns another position like 3B? They are retooling to win in 2022, so Arraez will be traded for pitching. I’ve been consistently saying for months that we need to choose one player for 2B. I also concur with @wsnydesthat Kepler is potentially traded for pitching.

Sure, and the Dodgers specifically have made so many win now moves that it’s all lost in translation. I asked my Dodgers friend when the Maeda vs Graterol trade winner article came out here who he thought won the deal. That trade didn’t register on his radar because they’ve made so many blockbuster deals in the last 2 years alone. I do wonder if those type of arguments are central to MN sports fans or elsewhere? Do fans on Pirates Daily constantly bring up the Chris Archer trade as a reason to never trade again? Similarly to us thinking every player we let go could be the next David Ortiz? I don’t know.

I think there is a lot of pent up frustration, jealousy, and insecurity with Minnesota sports fans that may be unique to the region. I am not an exception to this, but I try my best not to act like this all the time 30 years without a championship in the men’s major 4 sports is the source of the frustration. Frankly, only the Vikings have gotten relatively close to a championship in those 30 years. The Twins can’t overcome the Yankees in the playoffs, the T-Wolves have been a laughingstock for 15 years, and the Wild haven’t been able to put it all together. I think there is a TON of jealousy from fans. You can see it on this very thread that we’re using tax dollars to support “billionaire owner overlords”. A common theme I see all the time is bitching about the highest paid player on the team, and essentially running them out of town. Joe Mauer was the local hero who could do no wrong. Then once he became the highest paid player on the team and a career altering concussion happens, the hate starts pouring in. Josh Donaldson this year has had unwarranted attacks written about him on this very site. Kirk Cousins is the most polarizing player in the state. The list goes on and on. Finally, I think there’s a ton of insecurity from fans. There’s a constant worry that player X will never sign here because of cold weather, or a myriad of other things that aren’t important as money. As soon as a current Minnesota sports player says they may be looking elsewhere after their contract is over, fans turn on them saying “Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.” Jimmy Butler is a prime example. He was the only reason the T Wolves were relevant for a year. The minute he expressed his concerns about the team and maybe playing elsewhere, people wanted him gone immediately. It’s a truly wild dynamic here. I highly doubt people at Dodgers Daily bitch about paying Matt Kemp deferred money all these years later. Or if they won or lost a trade from 2 years ago. It’s only here. And I don’t know why.