TRADE: Twins Send Jorge Polanco to Mariners in Five-Player Deal

[CRF]

Really sorry to see Polo go, but I think the handwriting was on the wall. He was going to get shipped somewhere, and it's been rumored for a while that Sea was the destination. I wish him the best. He'll be a solid addition to their team. Desclafani isn't anything special...he's a 33 year old sub .500 career pitcher, but maybe he can give us some decent innings at the back end of the rotation. No idea about Topa. The real get might be Gonzalez, but we'll have to wait and see if he pans out. Ok...Polo's gone, will Kep be next?

[rico7961]

I just hope the fans treat the team the same way the owners and front office has.

Lets stay home and save our money and not go to any games. 
Would serve the team right and remind them what goes around comes around

[NeverSeenATwinsPlayoffWin]

According to BTV, the Twins got double the value for Polanco than they should have gotten. It's not a perfect system, but getting a controllable leverage reliever, a 5th starter (with some money coming from the other side to pay his contract), a team's top-3 prospect (top-100), and a non-top 30 guy is a good get.

 

We have to remember that Jorge has missed half of the Twins' games the last two years and his defense is going to decline even more with his age and injuries. I'm not super happy about it, but with time, this trade will prove to be a good decision, just like the Arraez for Lopez deal last year.

[arby58]

13 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Wow!  Good luck to Jorge in Seattle.  He'll remain one of my favorite players.  Those intense eyes at the plate!

This amounts to the move I would have made.  Our FO said they wanted need-for-need, but that seems hard to pair up.  DeSclafani and Topa would have been a huge underpay for our guy.  Prospects are fungible.  You can trade prospects for need, as another step.  And Gabriel Gonzalez seems to be a good get.

Some salary freed up.  How will they use it?

Polanco is a good player, but he's got injury concerns as well, isn't getting any younger, and is no more than an average defender. Topa was a decent reliever last year, and DeSclafini has had his moments. With a decent prospect and Seattle sending back some salary money, it seems about right. I was reading a transcript of a chat about baseball trade rumors, and the expert who does these made the point that hometown fans often overvalue their players for trade purposes. It takes two to make a trade, and my guess this is about Polanco's value at the moment.

[arby58]

Just now, rico7961 said:

I just hope the fans treat the team the same way the owners and front office has.

Lets stay home and save our money and not go to any games. 
Would serve the team right and remind them what goes around comes around

Yeah, let's not give them credit for putting together a decent team last year and one with a bunch of exciting young players this year. I was to games last year and had a great time - I expect the same this year. But I'll stay home to 'prove a point.' Not.

[KirbyDome89]

7 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

Eh, these value charts should be taken with a massive grain of salt.

[arby58]

3 minutes ago, CRF said:

 Ok...Polo's gone, will Kep be next?

I've long felt they would deal Polanco but not Kepler - they have far less depth in the outfield than the infield and few corner outfielders 'on the verge' in AAA. I still feel that way.

[Brandon]

5 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

You're vastly underselling a top 100 prospect.  I didn't think we'd get even that for Polanco, much less actual pitching help in 2024.  

He was the Mariners third best prospect on MLB.com  Mariners Top Prospects | MLB.com  I think he would slot 4th or 5th if I am not mistaken in Minnesota.

[NeverSeenATwinsPlayoffWin]

1 minute ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Eh, these value charts should be taken with a massive grain of salt.

I think the cash is there so the simulator can accept the trade.  The only talk of cash I've seen was moving to MN to pay the rest of DeSclafani's contract.

[KirbyDome89]

4 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

DeSclafani was really good in 2021 when the Giants got him. Barely threw at all in 2022 and I don't recall the reasons why. He was only mediocre in 2023. I'd rather have the younger, cheaper, talented and projectible Varland personally.

Plus he spent the last 2 months of 2023 on the IL with an elbow issue. 

I'm not even that high on Varland, but unless the Twins really don't envision him as a starter, shoving Varland out of the 5th spot and into the bullpen for a guy who's one bad year away from being considered washed seems silly.

[USAFChief]

Pretty underwhelmed. 

 

Desclafani most likely doesn't help the Twins in any meaningful way.

[KirbyDome89]

1 minute ago, NeverSeenATwinsPlayoffWin said:

I think the cash is there so the simulator can accept the trade.  The only talk of cash I've seen was moving to MN to pay the rest of DeSclafani's contract.

I was more so referring to the quantity/quality aspect of "evening," out a trade, and the way a 20 year old who hasn't seen a pitch outside of A ball is being valued vs. Polanco. 

[Linus]

Clearly a net loss for 2024. Pretty disappointing- better hope the prospect turns out because you just took a really good player and turned him into an injury prone mediocre starter and fungible reliever. 
 

this smells like salary relief which pisses me off to no end. 

[DocBauer]

3 minutes ago, arby58 said:

Polanco is a good player, but he's got injury concerns as well, isn't getting any younger, and is no more than an average defender. Topa was a decent reliever last year, and DeSclafini has had his moments. With a decent prospect and Seattle sending back some salary money, it seems about right. I was reading a transcript of a chat about baseball trade rumors, and the expert who does these made the point that hometown fans often overvalue their players for trade purposes. It takes two to make a trade, and my guess this is about Polanco's value at the moment.

I don't disagree with your basic premise. And I won't deny that as good as Polanco has been, he's missed some time with injury.

But let's turn this around. Gonzalez is a top prospect for Seattle and a top 100 prospect. So he's not all that different than E Rodriguez in overall rankings, or age for that matter. Would you trade a 5th starter equivalent, E Rodriguez and maybe Alcala, plus $ for Polanco? And I'm asking as a huge fan of Polanco's.

This just feels like the Twins got quantity instead of quality. Gonzalez doesn't help for years. I'd rather they include someone in the 10-20 prospect range to go with Polanco for one of their better young arms, and maybe even toss in a couple $M if Seattle demanded it. 

I just don't see any upside to this deal at all. Not unless something else is still coming.

[PseudoSABR]

6 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Eh, these value charts should be taken with a massive grain of salt.

Duh. But it's quick fodder for diagnosing value.

[PseudoSABR]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Pretty underwhelmed. 

 

Desclafani most likely doesn't help the Twins in any meaningful way.

Way to ignore the Top 100 prospect and a legitimate bullpen piece.  What the heck did you think they were getting for 80-game Polanco?

[Dman]

I think Topa is the headliner in this deal for the Twins.  He has a plus fastball and slider with a solid cutter.  Not a strike out guy unfortunately, but really good at generating ground balls.  Maybe the Twins can tweak a few things but he had a good year last year and maybe even more importantly he has two option years left.  Strengthening the pen should help.

I don't love Descalfini as the 5th starter addition, but they have Varland and hopefully SWR and Headrick to help as needed.  Maybe one of Festa or Ohl works there way up this year yet.

Gonzalez is rated number 3 in their system and in the top 100 on the MLB site I believe.  Lot's of concerns about plate discipline though and no projection left.  I hope this isn't like Salas again where the other team sold high.  Still he is a nice power oriented right handed bat.  Twins don't have much for the outfield at high A right now after moving Rodriguez and Rosario up so he is a system fit right now as well. He is only 20 but it is going to be a big year for him.

Bowen has a live arm with a plus fastball and slider.  That is generally what the Twins like in relievers.  Maybe they can add a sweeper or cutter as well.  Long way to go and not a control artist, but a nice lottery ticket.

Lot's of question marks but I guess Polo had his own question marks.  Hopefully some of these guys work out.  Especially the reliever as he seems to be what they were after for this years team.

[DocBauer]

13 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

You're vastly underselling a top 100 prospect.  I didn't think we'd get even that for Polanco, much less actual pitching help in 2024.  

Not attempting to undersell a top 100 prospect. But he's a good 2yrs away and I thought the Twins wanted help for 2024? Topa might help a little for the middle innings. I can get that. But I am just not excited for an almost 34yo starter who hasn't been good for 2yrs. 

I'd rather add to Polanco and get someone younger, better, not worry about the prospect, and let Seattle keep their guys.

Again...my opinion can change if there is another move to follow this one.

[Mike Sixel]

19 minutes ago, harmony55 said:

Gabriel Gonzales is currently the 79th-ranked prospect at MLB.com:

https://www.mlb.com/prospects

Anthony DeSclafani and Justin Topa are owed a combined $13.25 million this year.

Well, that's an improvement on last year! I'm happier now, thanks. 

[NeverSeenATwinsPlayoffWin]

2 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I was more so referring to the quantity/quality aspect of "evening," out a trade, and the way a 20 year old who hasn't seen a pitch outside of A ball is being valued vs. Polanco. 

He's a top-100 prospect, he's viewed fairly. Walter Jenkins hasn't been to AA, but you'd be ludicrous to think that Polanco's trade value is anywhere close to Jenkins'. Again, Polanco has missed ~50% of the Twins' game's the last two years, is a bad defender, and only has two years of control. That's a very risky acquisition for the Mariners, too, so I don't think their value is too different.

[Swimbo]

Hopefully this is a grease the wheels sort of deal. 

Maybe an additional trade with Seattle or maybe a bigger named deal with another team.

Something similar to the separate trades for Gray and Mahle. 

[PseudoSABR]

30 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

Not attempting to undersell a top 100 prospect. But he's a good 2yrs away and I thought the Twins wanted help for 2024? Topa might help a little for the middle innings. I can get that. But I am just not excited for an almost 34yo starter who hasn't been good for 2yrs. 

I'd rather add to Polanco and get someone younger, better, not worry about the prospect, and let Seattle keep their guys.

Again...my opinion can change if there is another move to follow this one.

There's Julien and Lee who both will need spots, though at different times in 2024.  Polanco, as long-loved as he was, was the piece to trade given his salary, and his recent injury history. 

The best case was always to trade Polanco for prospects, and flip those prospects for major league help.  This deal kinda accomplishes both, or at least gives us placeholders to explore our pitching depth and let it develop.

Too many are acting as if prospects are nonfungible.  Maybe this trade makes it easier to deal prospects to acquire a player like Burnes at the deadline.  

It's an objective good trade. Subjectively, it's sad to see Polanco go as our longest tenured Twin (along side Kepler).

[Major League Ready]

16 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I was more so referring to the quantity/quality aspect of "evening," out a trade, and the way a 20 year old who hasn't seen a pitch outside of A ball is being valued vs. Polanco. 

I think most people here would put a pretty high value on Walker Jenkins and he has a grand total of 56 PAs in A ball.

[Eris]

Rather disappointing trade. Won’t really improve the team this year and we are not saving $$$. Might improve the team 2 or 3 years from now and we have a RH hitting outfielder to go with our excess of LH hitting outfielders. 

[Jocko87]

If I'm reading this correctly, for two years of Polo we got 1 year of a back end starter, 4 years of a serviceable reliever, a top 100 RH outfield prospect and a throw in A ball non-prospect. Plus money.

They don't acquire pitchers they don't think they can improve, RH outfielders are a black hole in the system and they were trading from a spot where everyone knew they had to do something.

Not bad. It also isn't a move that ends Varlands starting career either. DeS... is a very flipable asset too. They ain't done. I like it.

[Gamblerssoftball]

I will miss Jorge. Especially those eyes while staring down the pitch. But, his health has to have been a factor. Every swing looked painful last year. I think this trade may well be a good one before too long.

[darin617]

36 minutes ago, sorney said:

Feels salary dumpy/roster clearing....depending on how you feel about DeScal.  However, I know next to nothing about the MiLB, so we shall see how it all pans out.  

Not a bad return. DeSclafani is obviously not going to replace Gray but at least he is a veteran starter that can be plugged into the 5th spot. Topa looks like a decent arm for the bullpen and Gonzalez most likely will make our top 10 prospect list. 

It also frees up the second base logjam a bit as well. Maybe Brooks Lee is ready by late May early June. 

 

[KirbyDome89]

6 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

Duh. But it's quick fodder for diagnosing value.

And if we need to view the "total value," with a high level of skepticism neither number is really diagnosing anything...

[Rosterman]

Well, the Twins need a guy capable of eating some innings? Can DeSclafani do it? Leaving Varland in the wings if Paddack breaks down, perhaps. It fills the need for a fifth starter and depth for the rotation pushing Varland down a notch and letting us hope Festa, Canterino, maybe even Dobnak or Woods Richardson will be part of the answer as the season rolls along.

Another bullpen arm for the 8th position in the pen. Allows the Twins to option out a couple of current roster guys, if need be.

Four players for one. Polanco had no position if Julien is the second baseman and you are looking for a place for Lee going forwards. Doesn't really add payroll to the Twins, either. But didn't cut payroll at all.

Two prospects, neither of whom need to be added to the 40-man anytime soon.

[Bamboo Bat]

Mostly just want to say I'll miss Polanco's steady bat. 

But the trade is probably win/win. Desca's last two full seasons have been good - his injury-shortened seasons, bad, so let's hope he's fit. Topa I like. Young, good prospect, I like. Lottery ticket, well, hope it works out! 

And the Mariners get a top-notch professional hitter who tries to stay healthy & whose defense is becoming more suspect. 

Pros & cons on both sides.