KirbyDome89

Zebby's production is precisely what people are clamoring to replace, and argument that "vibes," are why some aren't on the Zebby train is backwards, i.e. his August (good vibes) is the only reason the current debate exists.

Ok? Was there Zebby as the 5th starter next season momentum at the end of July? Are the Zebby vibes good so far in September? I mean....

The Zebby push is coasting off August vibes right now.

I mean yeah, he has, at least by ERA and FIP. Zebby is averaging basically one extra out per start over Kremer. I literally just said I wasn't a big Kremer fan, and nobody in this thread seems to be, yet the guy who's being touted as "earning it," hasn't really done anything to differentiate himself from the pitcher none of us are excited to see in the back end of the 2027 rotation. Kinda weird no? Assuming Kremer even gets the nod next year, Zebby is at worst, what, the 6th SP? That's not exactly being blocked, he's near guaranteed to see MLB action assuming the season happens.

FWIW Kremer, in an obviously smaller sample, has been better for the Twins than Zebby. He (Kremer) also has a more solid track record. I'm far from a Dean Kremer stan, I'd be absolutely ok with the team upgrading the 4-5 spot in the rotation. I just think the "earned it," argument is weird. Apart from stringing together a few good starts in August, Zebby has been wildly inconsistent, and his overall numbers this season, and past seasons, just aren't very good. I don't think he's "earned," anything really.

Past due, but it's a shot of life for a very stale team.

Again, don't disagree with the bolded. I think Buxton playing is a case of the manager being deferential to his veteran star, and the fact that we've seen this org allow Buxton, and other players to "fight through it," at other times gives me pause if we're talking about Tom Pohlad's impact.

I think it's a watered down AL more than anything, pretty sure we agree on that. Sure, I'll cede that if they had sold, and crashed out a la last year, Buxton might be more inclined to sit. I just have a hard time believing that Buxton, at 32, is willing to (in his mind) punt on a season, and activity at the deadline or not, I don't think the standings would be much different given how bad the AL is.

I don't disagree at all with the bolded, I only brought up the past debacles to highlight why I don't think Tom Pohlad is driving (or even has a seat on) this bus.

Nobody is accusing the Pohlad's of being decent, or even remotely competent owners. The last few years should've cemented that. Maybe heads do roll (I have my doubts) but the current Buxton situation isn't some wild departure from how this team has acted previously.

If Tom Pohlad had said nothing, do you think Buxton is on the IL with this team trying to cling to a WC spot? I don't. Concur that the adults in the room need to act as such, but how the Twins handle these situations predates Tom Pohlad opening his mouth.

What exactly has he been hands on with? He's a better public speaker than Joe, and I think he's been given undue credit because he's more polished, but there was time to spend over the winter and he opted to keep the checkbook closed. The deadline was definition half measure stuff. I guess the Twins are running more promotions? Of course he's accountable as the CEO, that's not what's being argued. The Pohlad's have meddled when it comes to payroll, and historically nothing else. They've largely been seen as a "hands off," ownership group when it comes to personnel decisions. Can you name a single instance where any of them stepped in to mandate playing time decisions? That's the claim here... Obviously they're not powerless, but this certainly isn't the first time Buxton has played injured, and it's not like the Twins in general have a great track record regarding keeping injured players on the active roster. How many times have we watched this club play short handed for a week+ only for somebody to hit the IL retroactively? I mean, Alex Jackson is literally just burning an active roster spot right now lol. Yeah, that's dysfunction, and terrible roster management, but if this club is ok with making that decision MULTIPLE times during an alleged playoff push, Idk why Buxton trying to play through injury is suddenly coming from the top. Tbh, I think you and a few others are conflating a lack of belief that Tom Pohlad is pulling day to day roster strings with some sort of weirdo Billionaire boot licking. Multiple things can be true at once. The Pohlads can be a terrible ownership group, and an overall plague on society, while the Twins FO can be prone to making awful roster decisions. Occam's Razor here; is Tom Pohlad dog whistling to Zoll through media comments, and the game of telephone trickles down to Shelton when he's filling out a lineup card, or does the manager see his best player (who is admittedly struggling) give him the thumbs up as far as availability? I'm more prone to believe it's the latter.

I don't disagree that we don't know exactly what a guy like Roden is, but the Twins did this to themselves. Eh, you could say the same thing about Joey Gallo a few years ago. It took him months to reach a full crash out statistically, but you can't tell me 6 weeks into that 3-4 month slide that he wasn't actively hurting the team. I don't think the Twins have the luxury of being patient while trying to chase down a playoff spot. The Buxton comp feels a little reductionist. It's not remotely the same gamble.

He'll be 28 next year, in his fourth big league season. If you're looking at optioning him at that point he's in the Matt Wallner category. A corner OF with no real power who is only playable against LHP is a really niche role.

It's a special kind of skill. Yeah, I guess I'm not willing to go clean slate here. No fan club membership necessary, I'm just asking what type of production can we reasonably expect moving forward, and is that a wise investment over higher upside players if you're trying to win right now? Pretty bad is an understatement if we're talking about offensive production for either player, and this team needs offensive help. Agreed that the 26 man pressure will force their hand, it always does, and I think that's problematic. The Twins have been far more reactive than proactive with roster building and decision making, and IMO it's hurt them. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too in this situation. If you're serious about winning, which the club has adamantly stated they are, then you need to make decisions that maximize games today. If that means a "quick hook," then so be it. Preaching patience here feels like another half measure, or middle ground type move because these guys actually are killing you offensively.

This. The Twins were such firm believers in Jackson earlier this year that they opted to pay Caratini $7M to be replacement level and tried to shop Jackson after tendering him an offer. Now he's suddenly so indisposable that they're burning a roster spot on a team allegedly trying to compete this season in order to keep Jackson in the organization? C'mon...

Roden is over 200 career PAs with a mid .500s OPS. Slumping a bit is an understatement if we're talking about Kreidler. He has an OPS in the low .400s over the last 6 weeks. Neither of these guys has any track record of hitting Major League pitching. How much patience can this team afford if they're desperately trying to win games, and what's the reward for said patience?

It's not really 18 games though, because only a couple guys can realistically play CF. We disagree that Buxton is coming back and playing 5 games in CF per week. I'd prefer that be the case, but I'd be shocked if it happened. The DH logjam is kinda irrelevant in regards to the outfield. It's a consequence of terrible roster building, but three bodies have to stand in the OF no matter what, and if Buxton can't go, then like I said it's either Martin or Kreidler sans a Jenkins call up. Yeah, the prospects are unknowns, but right now we know that Martin and Kreidler aren't contributing offensively. Neither of those two are competent options right now.

I think if they believed so much in Alex Jackson they weren't going to jump at the chance to sign Caratini. I sincerely hope the Twins aren't burning a roster spot because they're afraid of losing a AAAA catcher. How is this even a question? Prioritize getting your top prospect, who has enormous upside, actual experience, or continue to hand a valuable roster spot to a journeyman C? This team continues to be obsessed with washed and/or not good "vets," and it has worked out poorly for them. If you're a contending team, you don't want Alex Jackson playing 40% of the time. I don't think wasting a 26 man spot is in any way defensible.

Rodriguez has to be rostered next year. Unless you're dead set on moving him this offseason, I'd argue that trying to roster a guy with zero MLB experience is less fruitful than giving him PAs at the expense of Martin or Roden. I said it above, but how often is Buxton is starting in CF? How much "sitting," would Jenkins or Emma actually do?

I'm fine with Roden going away at this point, but is Buxton starting in CF 5-6 times per week? I doubt it. If you don't have Jenkins or Rodriguez on the roster, that means you're starting Martin or Kreidler and one or both have to face RHP. I would've waived Jackson yesterday. This team just can't seem to get out of their own way with roster mismanagement. Alex Jackson is now such a prized commodity that the Twins need to burn a roster spot to stash him? Insanity...but end rant. Jenkins is already a better defender than Martin, and you don't have to wait until a LHP takes the mound to *maybe* spot start him. Also, this team isn't exactly tearing it up offensively right now. The notion that there isn't room, or PAs, for somebody like Walker Jenkins doesn't vibe with me.

He's been terrible since he was given a starters workload in May. .193/.298/.284

"Not enough room," is a tough sell if you're carrying both Roden and Martin in the OF.

Careful now, you might get called out for refusing to accept the bounty that the overlords have provided.

Performance expectations aside, where/when are you playing Wallner? Neither he nor Bell should see the field, and Bell is a switch hitter who's a little better against RHP. Playing time isn't really an issue for Wallner at this point, but if you're committed to getting him PAs then you're either sitting Bell (which is a massive waste of a roster spot) or you're putting one of them in the field where each is a liability.