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Posted

You can dislike that Rocco Baldelli is a manager from a newer era. You can dislike that his demeanor is relatively unchanged despite a multitude of situations. You can dislike some of his in-game decisions over the years. What you must respect is the way he demanded accountability last week.

 

Image courtesy of Brett Davis-USA TODAY Sports

When the Minnesota Twins front office sought to replace Paul Molitor as manager, they weren't looking for a robot that could simply spit out analytical advantages. That isn’t how managing works, and that isn’t how the game has progressed. Derek Falvey and Thad Levine wanted a leader of the clubhouse that could relate to his players and generate buy-in behind certain beliefs and principles.

You could call Rocco Baldelli a player’s manager, but that would be selling his abilities short. Baldelli himself was once a highly-touted prospect, and his career was largely taken away from him, but he gets this game from multiple different vantage points. It’s why he can shoulder the load of pulling pitchers in scenarios where they may not like it. It’s why he can be ok with controversial lineup decisions. It’s why he can communicate numbers beyond just a sheet of paper and make them make sense. It’s also why he can demand a level of accountability that we saw permeate the clubhouse after an ugly series in Atlanta. It's also why he has a reputation that players want to be managed by him. In Darren Wolfson's recent interview with Dallas Keuchel , it was in part the manager that made Minnesota make sense.

There are plenty of times over the course of a baseball season that you may hear a manager question results or process. What Baldelli questioned after an ugly sweep at the hands of a great Atlanta team was the effort put forth by Minnesota’s players. He pulled no punches and was coming straight for his team’s throat.

Looking at a recent article from The Athletic’s Dan Hayes, Baldelli’s quotes were jarring. “No adjustments really in the game almost whatsoever. There’s no way we can walk out of this with any positives. If I’m rolling that up and trying to portray it any other way, I’m lying. We have to make some really, really legitimate adjustments to what we’re doing right now if we’re going to go out there and compete and win games against that team or really any other team. I’m not really pleased right now with the effort this series.”

Just a day earlier the Twins appeared to this writer as the definition of insanity. Baldelli apparently agreed, “because that’s madness going out there and doing the same stuff over and over and over again.”

As much as his comments were reflective of the poor play he consistently saw on the field, Baldelli ultimately brought things back to himself. Leading by example, he was willing to carry the load saying, “This is all me right here. This is my job to make sure we get our acts together and look in the mirror, answer the hard questions and ultimately win out there. That’s what we have to do, and I’ll take that on.”

At the core of this all is a bad division that Minnesota should be winning by a handful of games, and instead they find themselves treading water. Baldelli knows this team is better. So do players like Carlos Correa and Byron Buxton; superstars failing to live up to their own abilities. The call was now public and the path forward was direct. Get better or suffer, the manager had seen enough.

That level of leadership clearly permeated through the dugout and a group of veterans took it upon themselves to be better. The ax could have fallen on hitting coach David Popkins, but the process is not generated by just a single individual. Rather than making a change or holding only a coach accountable, a new path forward was established.

There is still a lot of baseball left to be played, and with both Cleveland and Chicago breathing down Minnesota’s necks, it’s on the best team in a bad division to separate themselves. The slate has been wiped clean and the manager is ready to see a response. How well that is executed upon will come from within.

You can dislike the way Baldelli goes about his business for any amount of reasons, but this wasn’t just some players-only meeting with no accountability moving forward. This was a leader demanding his talent show up, and figure out a way to individually come prepared each day. The results aren’t going to be seen immediately, or over a small sample, but the hope is that things would resonate over the long haul and a mid-season reset bears fruit in October.

The Minnesota Twins have been incredibly mediocre thus far during 2023, but Baldelli isn’t pleased with that reality, and no one in the clubhouse should be either. If everyone demands more of themselves, how the final chapter of this story is written could be substantially more impressive than we’ve seen thus far.


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Posted
Quote

What you must respect is the way he demanded accountability last week.

100% disagree. 

The interpretation I'm reading is that he "demanded accountability" & that was tough, good leadership. 

My interpretation is that Rocco just woke up. When I first heard this interview it sounded like he was calling out the hitters, criticizing them for not making any adjustments during the Braves series. More like 'blaming' the hitters rather than taking 'accountability' on himself. YMMV.

Where was this 'accountability' in April? May? June? Then the great leadership of "Oh, OK, you want player-only meetings, I'll go to my office & play Sudoku." Accountability isn't a one time, one interview attribute. If Rocco (or anyone else) wants us to buy into this nonsense, it's going to have to be over weeks, months, or seasons...not minutes. 

Posted

Bravo - 1 game where they actually hit a little.  Yes I see in your article that “the process” will take awhile, but this is at least the third similar article about the Twins hitters deciding the have had enough or they are going to make a change or there is a different feeling around the clubhouse - all of them came to a win or two and a return to strikeouts and dead-pull flyouts.  In order to prove mgmt is serious and to put a jolt into the team is to fire the hitting coach - players are already running the hitting meetings.

Posted

Ted, 2 games doesn't make Rocco a Saint.  I could argue, and I will,  that it took far too long for him to say anything about this now 3 years running underachieving bunch.  I still think Rocco stares at his computer analytics while the game on the field passes him by.  We had plenty of baserunners yesterday, but just couldn't seem to get that important 2nd run across the plate.  Once again, Rocco punched a bullpen button (and it was a good one with Duran) yet it blew up in his face.  Rocco has developed a knack for making moves that most of the time just don't work out.  This team has far more talent than any team in the horrible A.L. Central and they are one game under .500.  When it was time for a comeback, we went meekly with 3 consecutive strikeouts in the 9th.  You can blame the players (and we should) but we all know it's easier to fire a manager than an entire roster.  I'll give Rocco the rest of July to guide us to a 5 game lead.  If it's status quo at that time he and the F.O. should be unemployed this off season.  

Posted
4 minutes ago, TopGunn#22 said:

  When it was time for a comeback, we went meekly with 3 consecutive strikeouts in the 9th.  

By the time it came to the 8th inning and the Orioles brought in the 6 foot 8 inch 285 pound reliever, it was already too late.

Posted

How does the OP define "accountability"?   What concrete thing did Rocco do to hold a player accountable?  The team has literally made no changes since his rant.  They hit for 4 innings, then got tired off all the accountability and reverted right back to the same old same old for the last 22 innings of the series.   

There's no "reset", there's no leadership, and there's no accountability.  

Posted
48 minutes ago, farmerguychris said:

Rocco is fine.  Managers get too much credit when things go great, and too much blame when they go poorly.  We are a .500 team just like the analytics predicted we would be before the season.  

I think this is mostly right but I do think there are real differences between guys like Gardy and Rocco. Both have their faults and strengths. Gardy definitely had teams quit on him down the stretch but also had his team outperform their pyt w/l in 8 of his 13 seasons. Rocco, with the caveat that this season isn't over, doesn't have that track record but hasn't quite had that level of success. But I'm not sure if there is any one thing that is the problem/solution. Gardy had some great team leaders for most of his run - vocal players in the locker room who didn't always like losing and young up and coming stars who had overcome stuff. And Gardy also had cy young caliber pitching in a lot of his seasons. That probably helps a lot, too. 

Posted

I expected that there would be mostly pushback from a pro-Rocco piece at this time. The prevalent thought among those posting was that the manager and front office should be fired and that they are responsible for the underwhelming below .500 record. I was hoping for something significant, but really the Twins need to go with the position player roster they have, for now.

I think there were signs in the Baltimore series that better times are ahead. Both Correa and Buxton hit the ball hard and reduced their strikeouts in Baltimore. The key to the Twins' offense going forward will be increased contributions from those two guys. I thought there were better at bats from several players and that the team hit in poor luck (and good defense from the Orioles).

Three games does not a season make, and the ship can't be turned around on a dime. This roster is loaded with high strikeout guys and they've been slow to making adjustments to getting balls in play. Will there be more contact, better two-strike hitting and more hits with runners in scoring position? If there isn't, the Twins won't win the woebegone Central Division and one of the team's all time best starting rotations will have been wasted. 

Posted

I loved actually hearing what Rocco, Correa, Buxton and one other players said in the pre-game interviews before the 8-1 win.  It was great to think they had turned things around but deep down I knew not to get too excited and after the 8-1 win IMO they crashed right back down.  I don't see many changes but the line-up has never stayed stable with Rocco.  I didn't notice any big adjustments.  

Posted

The players do not make out the lineup card.

The players have been incredibly consistent this year. You have consistently stood by that consistency

 Now you are at your wits end and demanding immediate adjustments to deviate from that consistency but you made no adjustments to what you have consistently done this year with the lineup card.  

The players don't make out the lineup card. 

 

 

Posted

Accountability would include consequences. 

Extended benching or DFA of Kepler and/or Gallo. Moving Correa and Buck down in the order etc

More frequent/extended batting practice 

Fire your hitting coach (instead of just usurping his leadership)

Talk is cheap and depending on whiteboard phrases is lazy 

Posted
26 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I expected that there would be mostly pushback from a pro-Rocco piece at this time. The prevalent thought among those posting was that the manager and front office should be fired and that they are responsible for the underwhelming below .500 record. I was hoping for something significant, but really the Twins need to go with the position player roster they have, for now.

I think there were signs in the Baltimore series that better times are ahead. Both Correa and Buxton hit the ball hard and reduced their strikeouts in Baltimore. The key to the Twins' offense going forward will be increased contributions from those two guys. I thought there were better at bats from several players and that the team hit in poor luck (and good defense from the Orioles).

Three games does not a season make, and the ship can't be turned around on a dime. This roster is loaded with high strikeout guys and they've been slow to making adjustments to getting balls in play. Will there be more contact, better two-strike hitting and more hits with runners in scoring position? If there isn't, the Twins won't win the woebegone Central Division and one of the team's all time best starting rotations will have been wasted. 

We have been a sub .500 team since 2021, not just this year, at some point results have to be better.  Also I am not sure we are loaded with high strikeout guys on the roster except for Gallo and Buxton.  Most of the new players have strikeout rates higher than their career averages.

Posted

The writer must be Roccos agent ir gets a cut of his salary lol.  This team has been stagnant and boring for the past two and a half years.  Where was Rocco 2 years ago and last year when the same thing was going on?  Why did it take until half way through this season to publicly call out his players?  Twins scored 8 runs in the first four innings of the first game in Baltimore enroute to an 8-1 victory. The radio announcers were gushing so much about Roccos meeting and change in philosophy it was nauseating.  Predictably they only scored 2 runs in the next 22 innings.  We need to see more consistency.  How about an extended winning streak?  How about sweeping the Royals and take 2 of 3 from Orioles at home this week.  I've been a Twins fan for about 60 years.  This past two and a half years have been about the most boring and frustrating I've ever witnessed.  The FO shows no desire to improve the club.  What direction is the club going.  Several players are playing on their last contract year or option year.  What's in store for the next few years?  More of the same?  ImO the manager and FO are handled with kid gloves by the local press.  It's time to start demanding more if the team and organization.  Go Twins, I still follow you daily.  4 innings in a three game series doesn't show you've turned it around.

 

Oz

Posted
41 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Wow, you guys sure are tough on Rocco.  As a prior manager in my working days I learned that you always treat your team with respect.  Rocco called out the whole team, including himself and his coaches, without pointing out any individuals.  That is a form of leadership that garners loyalty and respect from his players.

Managers who constantly call out individuals, may get some short-term results from that player, but that managing style gets old fast.  I can say that is definitely from experience and if you are honest, you also will admit that it sucks working for a manager like that.

He also has matured this year as a manager by backing up his players and getting kicked out of  several games.

I must admit that I do criticize Rocco for his analytical spreadsheet style of managing instead of using his gut to make decisions on occasion, but I do feel that he has displayed some leadership qualities this year.

Edit: An afterthought... we also don't know whether Rocco had some individual conversations with certain under-performing players.

Agreed. You don't get results calling out individuals unless you're willing to lose those individuals from the team. Those individuals are counseled in private and the rest of the team knows who they are. Calling out insufficient effort by the group is a good start of a shake up. Now Rocco needs to put his money where his mouth is and either sit or lose players who don't make the adjustments he's looking for.  I'm looking to see who loses playing time or is demoted/let go to reinforce the message. 

Posted
45 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I expected that there would be mostly pushback from a pro-Rocco piece at this time. The prevalent thought among those posting was that the manager and front office should be fired and that they are responsible for the underwhelming below .500 record. I was hoping for something significant, but really the Twins need to go with the position player roster they have, for now.

I think there were signs in the Baltimore series that better times are ahead. Both Correa and Buxton hit the ball hard and reduced their strikeouts in Baltimore. The key to the Twins' offense going forward will be increased contributions from those two guys. I thought there were better at bats from several players and that the team hit in poor luck (and good defense from the Orioles).

Three games does not a season make, and the ship can't be turned around on a dime. This roster is loaded with high strikeout guys and they've been slow to making adjustments to getting balls in play. Will there be more contact, better two-strike hitting and more hits with runners in scoring position? If there isn't, the Twins won't win the woebegone Central Division and one of the team's all time best starting rotations will have been wasted. 

Good analysis. The high strikeout guys problem is exacerbated when you look at the AAA roster - the best player is Wallner, another high strikeout (80 SOs in 225 ABs), feast or famine guy. Same for Larnach and Williams - both over 35% SO guys. Is there someone at AAA who's more of the sparkplug, high OBP guy? Julien was supposed to be that guy but he has 48 SOS in 120 MLB ABs and only 15 walks. Early yes, but his SO rate is going up lately, not down. Looking at the stats, is Andrew Stevenson an answer? Hard to buy that since he wasn't great for the Nationals in part time duty with a .687 career OPS and he's 29 years old. 

To me, the bottom line is that the players currently on the roster have to make the adjustments. This starts with Correa, Buxton, and Kepler (since we seem to be stuck with him). Let's see if that happens. If things don't change stringerbell is right, we won't win this awful division.  

Posted

I'm holding all of you TD posters accountable. It's in no way shape or form my fault that you overpaid and underperformed minions can't come up with better suggestions or opinions on how I can right this ship.  But as I posted on the white board, there is still time. The season begins now. Right now! I remain popular with the powers that be. But I don't know how long this will last.  Now let's get to work. I can only use outside distractions for so long. My psychiatrist has assured me that it's not my fault. Thanks: Rocco

Posted

Since when does the season start MID SEASON ...

As posted by another member , he is not a leader of men and I totally agree , his first season as manager was 2019 , the players made his job easy by having career years and out hitting the Yankees  307 to 306 homeruns in a juiced ball season and then  he wins the manager of the year based on the players career years , not by a managing aspect , to me it wasn't deserved because there was no evidence that Rocco was a good manager ( cash or Boone) deserved it more because they managed and rocco sat back and watched the career years the players had  ,,, evidence was in the playoffs in 2019 and in 2020 , he was definitely out managed and has been  since his arrival ...

I have never seen a manager lose so many games during the season  ,  the manager needs to make adjustments  as well as the players  , take the talent you have and tap into that talent  and make that talent a better player ( it can be done , we have the technology  , we just dont have the coaching to help the players make these adjustments ) ,,,

Rocco says that players need to be ready to play and that No batting practice  or fielding practice  , no baserunning practice or fundamentals of the game are demanded unless the player feels he needs it , Rocco needs to use his eye test and help a player that needs the help or your going watch that player regress ...

HOW MUCH BETTER WOULD THIS TEAM BE IF THEY WERE TO PRACTICE  , hitting , fielding , base running , fundamentals  on a daily bases  ..

PRETTY SOON THOSE SPREAD SHEETS ARE GOING TO BE WORTHLESS because of players lack of performance as they regress ... 

Yes every season is different  with different sets of players each year  , but the manager remains the same and the results will be the same because Rocco isn't  making the adjustments either  ...

A manager can be a good teacher ( Kelly for one  , he and his coaches  took players and made them better players ) ...

This isn't all on Rocco either , the FO  also has to make adjustments to their flawed interpretation of baseball  ...

 

Posted
3 hours ago, farmerguychris said:

Rocco is fine.  Managers get too much credit when things go great, and too much blame when they go poorly.  We are a .500 team just like the analytics predicted we would be before the season.  

If the analytics would have had this pitching result is would’ve predicted 92 wins. If it had this hitting result it would’ve predicted 72 wins. Just because it might have the right answer at the end doesn’t make the process good. Not unlike a manager, now that I think about it.

Posted

Ted, I'm guessing that the comments have come in about as expected, which is overwhelmingly negative about Rocco and the front office.  I do not share your level of enthusiasm on this being the magic moment, but it certainly could be.  I also know, however, that the manager always gets too much credit and too much blame.  Plus, we can only react to what we hear in a media session after the game.  We really don't know what happens in the privacy of the locker room or the manager's office.  Because we don't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen -- in fact, it's probably more effective that way since we can't hit, field, or pitch for the players.

Guest
Guests
Posted

"What you must respect is the way he demanded accountability last week."

No, Ted, we don't have to respect the way Rocco "demanded" accountability last week.  First, Rocco should've "demanded" accountability four weeks ago.  He had plenty of reasons to do so.

Second, Rocco demands virtually nothing from his players.  Rocco's job is to manage thirteen (!) coaches and interact with the media.  Rocco's effectively insulated from direct contact with his players and they from him.  Anything Rocco says or does is filtered through thirteen coaches.  Each coach has his little niche and specialty; motivating the team might be a problem, but it's not their problem.  Rocco is around simply to "lead," to put a pretty, bearded face on the team for the outside world.  He has very little direct effect on the direction the players want to go.  Insofar as the players are concerned, they're encamped at Club Rocco where they can go weeks without being "accountable" to the FO, Rocco, the coaches and fans for anything while making a nice living.  If a Ted Schwerzler is concerned, the players couldn't care less.  And if TS approves, well, so what?

If anyone has a reason to demand accountability, it's the fans.  And no fan has to respect anything that Rocco's done this season.  Period.

Posted
Quote

How does the OP define "accountability"?   What concrete thing did Rocco do to hold a player accountable 

Baldelli moved Correa into leadoff and seems to have locked Buxton into 3rd spot. If that is his definition of accountability, I give up.

Baldelli's rant was only that. 50% of the season is gone and now he realizes that his talent laden club is about to lose 1st place in MLB's worst division? Good grief.

Quote

What you must respect is the way he demanded accountability last week.

I worked for more years than I can count. Accountability always meant there were attached consequences and actions. Baldelli's actions seem to be mere bluster and "tough man" all of a sudden. Get tossed, sit on a perch and bark when 1/2 the season is gone? I really can't take the gentleman seriously.

Posted

I disagree. Rocco has presided over a lineup with almost every major piece underachieving and one outburst doesn't all of a sudden make him a manager who demands accountability. Also, when so many supposed studs are having the worst years of their career you have to question the organizational approach and the coaching they're receiving. It's convenient to blame it on effort, but I have to believe that at least part of the problem is the coaching staff is not properly setting them up to succeed.

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