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Posted

While his regular season didn’t exactly meet expectations, the past two days have shown exactly why you sign Carlos Correa to a $200 million contract.

Image courtesy of Jesse Johnson-USA TODAY Sports

Heading into the postseason, Carlos Correa was coming off of the worst regular season of his professional career. In 135 games, Correa posted just a .711 OPS with a league-leading 30 double plays. Statcast’s defensive numbers didn’t love his 2023 season either, as he finished in the 34th percentile with negative one outs above average. Correa finished the 2023 season with a career-low 1.1 fWAR, even lower than he provided in the shortened 2020 COVID season in which he only appeared in 58 games.

The thing with Carlos Correa, though, is that you don’t give him $200 million for him to win you games in the regular season. You sign Carlos Correa to a $200 million contract for him to win you games in October.

Carlos Correa has playoff experience unlike anyone who has ever donned a Minnesota Twins jersey before. Through his time with the Houston Astros, Carlos Correa has racked up 79 games of playoff experience. Correa has been in every key moment and has shown the ability to deliver when the pressure is at its highest. It was that playoff experience and that clutch ability that the Minnesota Twins were looking for when they signed the shortstop to a six-year deal.

It didn’t take long for Correa to show that the Twins were correct in their expectations for Correa, as he has played in just two postseason games with the Minnesota Twins and has delivered in three massive moments that helped drive the team to their first playoff series victory in twenty years.

The first moment came in Game 1 when Correa nailed Bo Bichette at home plate in an extraordinary display of baseball wit and incredible arm strength.

Then in Game 2, Correa delivered once again. The first came at the plate when Correa started the scoring when he ripped a bases-loaded single which gave the Twins a 1-0 lead.

Then again, Carlos Correa delivered an unforgettable moment with his glove (and baseball mind), when he orchestrated a pickoff play of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. at second base with runners on second and third and the dangerous Bo Bichette at the plate. A play that we later learned was drawn up by Correa when he realized that the crowd noise would keep the baserunner at second baseman from being able to hear Toronto’s third base coach.

Each of Carlos’s spectacular plays played a key role in delivering victories in games one and two. Without Correa, there’s no telling how either of those games would have gone.

Outside of the incredible plays in the field, Carlos Correa has also provided the unquantifiable, yet still invaluable leadership and confidence to a locker room that has never experienced postseason success before. We have heard from countless players that Correa’s experience and leadership has played a key role in galvanizing the locker room and preparing the team to make a postseason run.

Whether it’s on or off the field, Carlos Correa has proven to everyone why you invest in a player with the talent, experience and leadership like he possesses. Correa is proving himself to be worth his $200 million contract, and he is on the path to proving himself to be worth so much more.


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Posted

I know that some (many) will quibble at the salary he is getting, but you are correct in that with Correa you are getting much more than "just" a hitter or "just" a shortstop.  Even in an injury depleted year, he is a veteran leader who will find himself in a position to make a difference and the past two games have been proof of that.  Carlos Correa is the ultimate in a "been there before" player, and that's why the Twins gave him the contract. 

The pick-off play was pretty great, but the throw home in game 1 was absolutely unbelievable.  There may not be another shortstop alive that can make that throw happen.  Those two flashy plays make everyone forget about the incredibly important RBI in game 2.  Let's go Twins!

Posted

He'll hit better next year.  He'll continue to lead this year.  He'll teach the Royce Lewis's, Juliens, Brooks Lee's of the world how to become winners.  $200 million isn't that much in a long term contract any more and we all know the Twin's have that kind of money to spend.  Loved the signing when they got him back and still love it.

Posted
11 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

the throw home in game 1 was absolutely unbelievable.  There may not be another shortstop alive that can make that throw happen.

This is some pretty extreme hyperbole. People brought up the Jeter throw as an immediate comparison. If an awful SS like Derek Jeter can make a similar throw there are plenty of SS who can make that throw. It was a great play but Carlos Correa is not the only MLB SS who can make great plays.

Posted

Carlos is an amazing defensive shortstop. I think Kyle Farmer is a perfectly competent major leaguer. But if he was at short and Jake Cave was in center field this year, we would just all be left complaining about the Vikings right now. 

Carlos is very gutty too. You have to admire in every respect how he has comported himself through injury and his free agency journey. 

Posted

Even with his poorer than usual numbers this season they weren't that bad. He still produced clutch moments (go ahead double at NYY, walk off homer v Brewers for example). And his defense has been excellent. Besides, you don't sign players like Correa to get to the play offs. One player, no matter how good, can get you to the play offs on their own. Ohtani is two elite players in one and the Angels were still rubbish. You sign the likes of Correa to win IN the play offs. Carlos Correa loves the play offs. He thrives in that high pressure, high stakes environment. And it is rubbing off on the team around him. Of course Correa won't be happy with his numbers in the regular season. But he's not going to dwell on it. It's like a switch has been turned on in his brain now we're in the play offs.

I listened to a bit of Baker's press conference earlier. He said we're not playing Carlos Correa, we're playing the Twins. I'm sorry buddy, but right now, Carlos Correa IS the Twins. He has driven his mentality, his hunger, his drive into the rest of the roster. Royce Lewis is hitting at MVP level, Lopez and Gray are pitching at Cy Young level. Duran closed out two close games in his first play off series. Kepler is a hitter re-born. 

People have been saying that the Giants and Mets have dodged a bullet. Nonsense. Correa has made us genuine World Series contenders. 

Posted

Correa is certainly worth what the Twins are paying him given the market for top-end SS. I don't quite understand all the angst about his salary - the Twins paying big money for a player is a positive step especially given the franchise's track record of let's be gentle, frugality.

He has delivered leadership, a rock-solid competitive mindset and great attitude despite a sub-par year at the plate partly due to injury. He also seems committed to leading the Twins to a championship. I think that the Twins could well be contenders for a good stretch and Correa will be in the middle of all that.

Posted

Easy on the hyperbole please.  There are lots of players who could have, and have made those plays, in big situations as well. I love Carlos, but he’s not the only baseball player in the world. Let’s be realistic.

That said, what makes him special is that he made all of them, at all the right times and can reasonably be expected to make them the next time.  Clutch is hard to measure but easy to see. 
 

Posted
27 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Easy on the hyperbole please.  There are lots of players who could have, and have made those plays, in big situations as well. I love Carlos, but he’s not the only baseball player in the world. Let’s be realistic.

That said, what makes him special is that he made all of them, at all the right times and can reasonably be expected to make them the next time.  Clutch is hard to measure but easy to see. 
 

OK, so perhaps I got a little carried away, but there are probably not LOTS of players who would make the play in a pressure situation like that.  It's a pretty small club.  Your last paragraph, however, says it all.  We can expect that he will have the vision to see a play like that and can be reasonably expected to actually make it.  There are dangerously few of those players out there and I'm really glad we have one. 

I grew up as a big NBA basketball fan as well as baseball, and for a long time Magic Johnson was my favorite player (still is, I guess).  He had very good stats, but his real talent was making those players around him into better versions of themselves, sometimes by throwing passes that no one else would have (or could have) made successfully.  Correa isn't my favorite player, but I think he has a little of that Magic Johnson in him.  He can, but doesn't have to, fill up the box score to have a real impact.

Posted

STatcasts defensive numbers are worthless, IMO. For over 150 years it was known that there is no way of measuring the infinite array of subtleties that make a defensive player strong or weak. Range is one such  non measurable talent.

The best thing we’ve had is scouts with trained eyes who have been watching SSs or CF, or 2B for years. And that’s still the best thing. For anyone with a ton of experience watching baseball, or a Roy Smalley, Latroy Hawkins, Terry Francona or even anyone that watched all of the Twins games this year, they know that Correa had a sensational defensive season. 

It’d be like watching Jordan and then someone quoting a new stat that had not existed for 97% of basketball history and they say Jordan averaged -1 field goals per average defensively for his career.

On what scientific principle is OAA, Zone ratings and all these other defensive metrics that have wildly counter-intuitive results based?  If a SS like Correa, say, played in 2022 behind a fly ball staff, sure he’d have less outs than average. It’s what he does with the balls hit to him that count.  it’s his judgement. And that rocket arm. His diving stops. His superior work in turning double plays. Coming from closer to 2nd base to field a slow roller and use his superior arm to miraculously throw out a runner. And using his veteran judgement to put on a play with the pitcher to pick off a runner at 2nd. That was a thing of beauty!

He has the strongest arm of any SS I’ve ever seen play and I’ve been avid since the 64 Twins. How many hits did that save the year and how many DP turned just because of his rocket arm? No stat can say. One could say Correa average 90 mph on his throws to 1st and player B averaged 91. That would be fatally flawed too because on maybe 10% of the plays, he eases up based on his judgement that he doesn’t need to unleash the full fury of his usual blistering throws.

I just feel a lot of distress for the fans that are being raised on these numbers. I think they’re really a crutch for those that don’t watch all or even most of the games. The bad habit has even seeped into some of the bloggers and baseball writers that write for somewhat respected publications. They’ve seen few of the Twins games but readily quote "advanced defensive metrics didn’t like  Correa’s season. Advanced defensive metrics are like corporations. They have no heart and they have no soul. They are rote in only caring about 1 stat - profit turned above and beyond all other human considerations.

I do feel a whole generation is being raised on a group of statistics that are entirely unprovable and wildly misleading.  Everyone would be done a favor if the scouts 20-80 consensus came back into use rather than OAA, etc.

 

Posted

Okay people are blowing the play in game way out of what it was.  First, to say "extraordinary display of baseball wit and incredible arm strength." Is just not accurate.  The arm strength part yes, and the throw was perfect in the situation.  Not taking away from that.  

However, people are acting like no other player would have done what CC did.  Watch the play and you will see him just standing there until the ball rolls past Polo.  Okay so he was being a little lazy expecting his teammate to make a play.  Personally, I think CC should have been running to back up the play and or to cover 3rd, but he just stands there.  Then when he see the ball rolling in the middle of no where, and he is the closest guy to it, I would not say it was extraordinary baseball wit to figure out he should go get it.  I mean do we say how amazing a play someone makes when they grab the ball and are closest to it?  Really, the fact that he took no effort to back up the play, like we are taught in little league, the runner does not even try to go home.  Maybe CC thought of that, like he was playing some game of dare the runner he will get there first, but my guess he just assumed Polo would stop the ball, then when it did not happen he did what any player would have done and go get it, and then his arm and perfect throw makes the good play.  

But please people stop acting like no other player would have had the mind to go grab a ball that is just rolling and he is closest to get it.  If he would have just stood there and watched it would have been upset he never moved and how dumb of a play it was. 

All that being said, we do not win the series without him, and his leadership has shown.  He telling Gray that they could do the pickup, and he calling it himself shows he does have a good mind for what to do and when. 

Posted
17 minutes ago, Greglw3 said:

STatcasts defensive numbers are worthless, IMO. For over 150 years it was known that there is no way of measuring the infinite array of subtleties that make a defensive player strong or weak. Range is one such  non measurable talent.

The best thing we’ve had is scouts with trained eyes who have been watching SSs or CF, or 2B for years. And that’s still the best thing. For anyone with a ton of experience watching baseball, or a Roy Smalley, Latroy Hawkins, Terry Francona or even anyone that watched all of the Twins games this year, they know that Correa had a sensational defensive season. 

It’d be like watching Jordan and then someone quoting a new stat that had not existed for 97% of basketball history and they say Jordan averaged -1 field goals per average defensively for his career.

On what scientific principle is OAA, Zone ratings and all these other defensive metrics that have wildly counter-intuitive results based?  If a SS like Correa, say, played in 2022 behind a fly ball staff, sure he’d have less outs than average. It’s what he does with the balls hit to him that count.  it’s his judgement. And that rocket arm. His diving stops. His superior work in turning double plays. Coming from closer to 2nd base to field a slow roller and use his superior arm to miraculously throw out a runner. And using his veteran judgement to put on a play with the pitcher to pick off a runner at 2nd. That was a thing of beauty!

He has the strongest arm of any SS I’ve ever seen play and I’ve been avid since the 64 Twins. How many hits did that save the year and how many DP turned just because of his rocket arm? No stat can say. One could say Correa average 90 mph on his throws to 1st and player B averaged 91. That would be fatally flawed too because on maybe 10% of the plays, he eases up based on his judgement that he doesn’t need to unleash the full fury of his usual blistering throws.

I just feel a lot of distress for the fans that are being raised on these numbers. I think they’re really a crutch for those that don’t watch all or even most of the games. The bad habit has even seeped into some of the bloggers and baseball writers that write for somewhat respected publications. They’ve seen few of the Twins games but readily quote "advanced defensive metrics didn’t like  Correa’s season. Advanced defensive metrics are like corporations. They have no heart and they have no soul. They are rote in only caring about 1 stat - profit turned above and beyond all other human considerations.

I do feel a whole generation is being raised on a group of statistics that are entirely unprovable and wildly misleading.  Everyone would be done a favor if the scouts 20-80 consensus came back into use rather than OAA, etc.

 

How is range a "non-measurable talent?" It's actually quite easy to measure. How far can you get in a set amount of time? We're able to measure where a player was standing when the ball was hit, how hard the ball was hit, at what angle the ball was hit, what direction the ball was hit, how long it took the ball to get from the bat to any point on the field, and how far the player had to travel in that amount of time to get to the ball. Pretty easy to compare that all to other players and how much ground they're able to travel in the same amount of time. It's really simple math to calculate range.

Now defensive stats are wildly untrustworthy in single season sample sizes at this point. They're all based on very different things, and learning how each is calculated is very important when deciding how trustworthy they are. But suggesting that we can't measure this stuff is simply false. We can measure them. The questions surround how to interpret the collected data and form it into a meaningful stat. They're improving on that side of things, but definitely aren't there yet. But range is incredibly easy to measure.

Posted
14 minutes ago, Trov said:

Okay people are blowing the play in game way out of what it was.  First, to say "extraordinary display of baseball wit and incredible arm strength." Is just not accurate.  The arm strength part yes, and the throw was perfect in the situation.  Not taking away from that.  

However, people are acting like no other player would have done what CC did.  Watch the play and you will see him just standing there until the ball rolls past Polo.  Okay so he was being a little lazy expecting his teammate to make a play.  Personally, I think CC should have been running to back up the play and or to cover 3rd, but he just stands there.  Then when he see the ball rolling in the middle of no where, and he is the closest guy to it, I would not say it was extraordinary baseball wit to figure out he should go get it.  I mean do we say how amazing a play someone makes when they grab the ball and are closest to it?  Really, the fact that he took no effort to back up the play, like we are taught in little league, the runner does not even try to go home.  Maybe CC thought of that, like he was playing some game of dare the runner he will get there first, but my guess he just assumed Polo would stop the ball, then when it did not happen he did what any player would have done and go get it, and then his arm and perfect throw makes the good play.  

But please people stop acting like no other player would have had the mind to go grab a ball that is just rolling and he is closest to get it.  If he would have just stood there and watched it would have been upset he never moved and how dumb of a play it was. 

All that being said, we do not win the series without him, and his leadership has shown.  He telling Gray that they could do the pickup, and he calling it himself shows he does have a good mind for what to do and when. 

You've said that he was "just standing there" on a few threads now. Have you actually gone and looked at the play? I'm not saying it's the greatest ever, but he certainly wasn't "being a little lazy." He was covering 2B which was his responsibility on that play. They were shifted as far right as they could be for the lefty hitter. He started the play behind 2B, took 2 immediate steps to his right then started going towards 2B to field any possible throw there. His responsibility was absolutely not to backup Jorge on that play. 

Other players would certainly have made that play. Not a large number, but there are other guys. But don't bash him for not backing up the play when that wasn't his responsibility. His responsibility was to cover 2B since Julien was deep in the hole at 2B.

Posted

With Correa and P. Lopez leading this team by example I feel this team will reel off deep playoff runs for the next 4 years. Who knows maybe even a World Champion's parade!

Posted
1 hour ago, Jocko87 said:

Easy on the hyperbole please.  There are lots of players who could have, and have made those plays, in big situations as well. I love Carlos, but he’s not the only baseball player in the world. Let’s be realistic.

That said, what makes him special is that he made all of them, at all the right times and can reasonably be expected to make them the next time.  Clutch is hard to measure but easy to see. 
 

I get your point but as far as other players making that play you can cross off anyone that doesn’t have an elite arm. Correa threw an absolute bullet to the plate and got him by a whisker. Anyone with less than an elite arm is not making that play 

Posted

All of the defense and leadership is great... but what gets me excited was watching him run to third in the 8th inning last night. That was not the sprint of someone who has a rough bout of plantar fasciitis. If it is possible that the tear was healing to some extent (as has been suggested) we might see some massive upswing in all areas of his play this October. 

Could just be the adrenaline in the situation made it painless, but I don't feel like I've seen him running like that all year. 

Posted
26 minutes ago, Trov said:

Okay people are blowing the play in game way out of what it was.  First, to say "extraordinary display of baseball wit and incredible arm strength." Is just not accurate.  The arm strength part yes, and the throw was perfect in the situation.  Not taking away from that.  

However, people are acting like no other player would have done what CC did.  Watch the play and you will see him just standing there until the ball rolls past Polo.  Okay so he was being a little lazy expecting his teammate to make a play.  Personally, I think CC should have been running to back up the play and or to cover 3rd, but he just stands there.  Then when he see the ball rolling in the middle of no where, and he is the closest guy to it, I would not say it was extraordinary baseball wit to figure out he should go get it.  I mean do we say how amazing a play someone makes when they grab the ball and are closest to it?  Really, the fact that he took no effort to back up the play, like we are taught in little league, the runner does not even try to go home.  Maybe CC thought of that, like he was playing some game of dare the runner he will get there first, but my guess he just assumed Polo would stop the ball, then when it did not happen he did what any player would have done and go get it, and then his arm and perfect throw makes the good play.  

But please people stop acting like no other player would have had the mind to go grab a ball that is just rolling and he is closest to get it.  If he would have just stood there and watched it would have been upset he never moved and how dumb of a play it was. 

All that being said, we do not win the series without him, and his leadership has shown.  He telling Gray that they could do the pickup, and he calling it himself shows he does have a good mind for what to do and when. 

Sorry.  It would be lovely if Correa could be in two places at once, but he can only choose one, in this case covering second base, which was his responsibility.  To call him "a little lazy" is "a little unfair" at best.  Correa deserves better than that.

Yes, we are taught in little league to grab the ball, but that usually results in a guy sitting there on the ground with the ball in his hand and not having made a pretty impressive and accurate throw to nail the runner at home.  Give some credit and enjoy the moment. 

Posted
35 minutes ago, Trov said:

However, people are acting like no other player would have done what CC did.  Watch the play and you will see him just standing there until the ball rolls past Polo.  Okay so he was being a little lazy expecting his teammate to make a play.  Personally, I think CC should have been running to back up the play and or to cover 3rd, but he just stands there.  Then when he see the ball rolling in the middle of no where, and he is the closest guy to it, I would not say it was extraordinary baseball wit to figure out he should go get it.  I mean do we say how amazing a play someone makes when they grab the ball and are closest to it?  Really, the fact that he took no effort to back up the play, like we are taught in little league, the runner does not even try to go home.  Maybe CC thought of that, like he was playing some game of dare the runner he will get there first, but my guess he just assumed Polo would stop the ball, then when it did not happen he did what any player would have done and go get it, and then his arm and perfect throw makes the good play.  

This is absolutely wrong. Look where everyone is standing before the play begins. Julien is pulled way over, Correa was behind 2nd base. He was covering 2nd base for a throw to come to him. As soon as Polanco bobbles it he springs into action. He wasn't standing there lazily just watching. He was covering where he was supposed to cover. I get how y'all are coming to this incorrect conclusion, but it is incorrect.

Posted
15 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

You've said that he was "just standing there" on a few threads now. Have you actually gone and looked at the play? I'm not saying it's the greatest ever, but he certainly wasn't "being a little lazy." He was covering 2B which was his responsibility on that play. They were shifted as far right as they could be for the lefty hitter. He started the play behind 2B, took 2 immediate steps to his right then started going towards 2B to field any possible throw there. His responsibility was absolutely not to backup Jorge on that play. 

Other players would certainly have made that play. Not a large number, but there are other guys. But don't bash him for not backing up the play when that wasn't his responsibility. His responsibility was to cover 2B since Julien was deep in the hole at 2B.

This is absolutely, 100%, spot on correct. CC was covering 2nd, which is what he was supposed to be doing. To call him lazy, is complete B.S. Once he saw that Polo missed the play, CC took off like a bat outta hell to get the ball. All the way from damn near 2nd base. Once he got the ball, he threw a rocket to Jeffers. Perfect throw, on the run. Watch the sequence again and see how far CC ran to make that play. Could another SS make that play? Probably, but you could count them on one hand...and maybe in that exact moment, no other SS makes that play. Everything had to be perfect, and it was. That was one of the best plays I've ever seen a SS make in my 60 years of watching baseball. The guy is worth every damn penny of what the Twins pay him, and it goes  way beyond what he does on the field. 

Posted
14 minutes ago, Linus said:

I get your point but as far as other players making that play you can cross off anyone that doesn’t have an elite arm. Correa threw an absolute bullet to the plate and got him by a whisker. Anyone with less than an elite arm is not making that play 

Watch the replay again. At the moment Jeffers caught the ball Bichette was at least 8 feet away from home plate. He was at the edge of the dirt circle around the batters boxes.

Posted
2 minutes ago, CRF said:

That was one of the best plays I've ever seen a SS make in my 60 years of watching baseball. The guy is worth every damn penny of what the Twins pay him, and it goes way beyond what he does on the field. 

I can believe this coming from a Twins fan because in all the years I've watched the Twins only Greg Gagne is on par with Carlos Correa defensively. The Twins have not been a hotbed of talent at SS over their history.

Posted
6 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Watch the replay again. At the moment Jeffers caught the ball Bichette was at least 8 feet away from home plate. He was at the edge of the dirt circle around the batters boxes.

Yeah, I agree it ended up not being that close. But that's in partial thanks to Correa and partial thanks to Bichette for hesitating just a minute. The thing is, any less than absolute perfection on Correa's part, however, leads to a score. His instinct and quickness and making a spot-on throw ... saved a run. Listen to Bichette's interview post-game. He said it had to be executed perfectly to get him and it was. And given the choice, he'd do the same and run ... because it would have to be perfectly executed.

I'm sure other SS could have made that play. And I'm sure plenty wouldn't have made that play. It was a good play by a heads up SS with good baseball instincts and a good arm.

Posted
5 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I can believe this coming from a Twins fan because in all the years I've watched the Twins only Greg Gagne is on par with Carlos Correa defensively. The Twins have not been a hotbed of talent at SS over their history.

I'm a Twins fan, but I'm not from Mn. I didn't mean 60 years of Twins baseball. I've seen plenty of shortstops play, for many teams, over the years. A lot of great ones. That play by CC was as good as they come. 

Posted

I have seen people write "nobody practices that play" which is utter garbage. I know Correa has practiced that play because his throwing fundamentals were right out of the clock drill. You don't accidentally get perfect baseball fundamentals.

Posted
1 hour ago, Jocko87 said:

Easy on the hyperbole please.  There are lots of players who could have, and have made those plays, in big situations as well. I love Carlos, but he’s not the only baseball player in the world. Let’s be realistic.

That said, what makes him special is that he made all of them, at all the right times and can reasonably be expected to make them the next time.  Clutch is hard to measure but easy to see. 
 

“clutch is hard to measure…….but easy to see”

His brain & experience are his biggest value going forward ……within that, being clutch.

Well said Jocko!

Posted
35 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

You should have watched Ozzie Smith and Cal Ripken in the 1980s.

So your point is that since two hall of fame players could have made that play that it must not have been so great?  I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that Correa (and the fans) would be willing to take that comparison all day long.  Glad to know you think he’s in that class of player as well. 

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