Twins Shopping Christian Vazquez

[Brock Beauchamp]

Robert Murray of FanSided has reported the Twins are aggressively shopping catcher Christian Vazquez in hopes of clearing up salary space for positions of greater need.

The Twins will be reducing payroll in 2024, which puts the front office in a bind as they try to build in their 2023 AL Central champion squad and the franchise's first postseason wins since 2004.

Vazquez signed a three year, $30 million contract before the 2023 season. Last season, the 33-year-old had a terrible season at the plate, posting an OPS a full 100 points lower than his career mark. The Twins might have difficulty moving $20 million of contract for a player who hit closer to Drew Butera's career mark than league average.

 

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[mnfireman]

I believe he would have to be included as part of a package of younger, more controllable players that many fans would be upset to see traded.

[CRF]

I saw this yesterday and had a pretty good laugh. They're probably going to have a tough time moving him unless they eat some of that contract. Not exactly a great way to save payroll, if you ask me. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, CRF said:

I saw this yesterday and had a pretty good laugh. They're probably going to have a tough time moving him unless they eat some of that contract. Not exactly a great way to save payroll, if you ask me. 

Yep. If you're at the point where Vazquez clears you $4-5m of payroll, what's even the point of doing it.

[darin617]

57 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Yep. If you're at the point where Vazquez clears you $4-5m of payroll, what's even the point of doing it.

The Twins wouldn't be eating 6M in a salary dump. I could see eating 3-4M at most and attaching a low level prospect in a deal to get it done. 

It also may not make sense but I would still sign a veteran FA to basically a minimum contract to back up Jeffers until Camargo is ready.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Far be it from me to know what the hell is going on here, but trading Vazquez would be an overreaction.

Jeffers is coming off a career year and is likely to regress, and Vazquez is also coming off a career year in the other direction. Most likely, they will both gravitate toward more average numbers in 2024.

I think shopping Vazquez has more to do with Vazquez riding the bench the entire postseason and him telling his agent he wanted out. 

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, CRF said:

I saw this yesterday and had a pretty good laugh. They're probably going to have a tough time moving him unless they eat some of that contract. Not exactly a great way to save payroll, if you ask me. 

Marlins need a catcher & veteran leadership. Throw in Gordon to help with their CF & back-up 2B issues & maybe Headrick & a prospect.

We shed some salary but give Marlins help in more than one spot. Could get a reasonable arm if the “prospect” is good enough. They would be interested in Rodriguez……..we’d then need a real pitcher!

Really tough to move 2 years of blah offense at that price. Maybe we trade him and send $7M along with him to spread over his last 2 years?

[JD-TWINS]

49 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Far be it from me to know what the hell is going on here, but trading Vazquez would be an overreaction.

Jeffers is coming off a career year and is likely to regress, and Vazquez is also coming off a career year in the other direction. Most likely, they will both gravitate toward more average numbers in 2024.

I think shopping Vazquez has more to do with Vazquez riding the bench the entire postseason and him telling his agent he wanted out. 

He was 4th in League on defensive metrics, per other sources here in TD. I agree, moving him would be an over reaction and a mistake. What happens if Jeffers breaks a finger……we then have 2 unproven guys over an indefinite amount of time…….scary!!

[Mike Sixel]

As I've been predicting..... They'll deal him with a prospect to clear salary and sign a cheap veteran. No idea if it's a good idea, but I see it making sense. 

[LewFordLives]

The Twins lucked out with injuries to their catchers last year. They will need at least 3 halfway decent catchers to start the season. I, for one, do not want to see them having to give at bats to guys like Sandy Leon down the stretch.  Bottom line, unless someone is willing to take his entire contract, I don't see how this makes sense for the Twins.

[DocBauer]

We got outstanding game calling and defense from the catcher spot last season. Also got a lot of offense, even with Vazquez having a down year. I like the potential of Carmago a lot, but I don't know that handing the rookie a job is the smart thing to do. Especially if someone doesn't pick up all, or most of the tab on Vazquez. Otherwise, you basically weaken your depth to save a couple million?

I can guarantee moving him isn't the issue. The league isn't brimming with quality, experienced catchers. Someone could use hum and would love to have him. But, what are they willing to give up for the remaining $20M?

I get the idea here. I just don't know if I like it.

[dxpavelka]

I said a year ago that they should have moved on Gabriel Moreno instead of this guy.  That being said, and with no seasoned help on the farm, I only move Vasquez if I can bring back a Moreno type of ready to plug and play guy.

[Doctor Gast]

3 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Far be it from me to know what the hell is going on here, but trading Vazquez would be an overreaction.

Jeffers is coming off a career year and is likely to regress, and Vazquez is also coming off a career year in the other direction. Most likely, they will both gravitate toward more average numbers in 2024.

I think shopping Vazquez has more to do with Vazquez riding the bench the entire postseason and him telling his agent he wanted out. 

My thoughts exactly.

IMO the greatest mistake the Twins made in the post season was to bench Vazquez. Vazquez has a lot of positive post season experience that'd rise to the occassion & Jeffers would be lost. Vazquez is a gamer like Correa who'd want catch great majority of games but saw his playing time diminish. But this was a slap in the face to a proud Vazquez, who should have caught the great majority of the games in the PS.

I'd understand if Vazquez wouldn't want to play here with everything that had unfolded & the prospect to play 2nd fiddle to Jeffers in '24 and I wouldn't blame him. Yet I'd hate to see them trade him & our catching return to the toilets. & our rotation digress. FO has made many bad decisions about our catching; concerning short past, present & future. If they want to compete present & future they have to rethink their catching strategy & raise their standards.

[DJL44]

10 hours ago, mnfireman said:

I believe he would have to be included as part of a package of younger, more controllable players that many fans would be upset to see traded.

I think they could also trade him for some other team's overpriced veteran.

[stringer bell]

I like the idea of having two good defensive catchers. Having Vázquez available is prudent and wise unless they can come up with a replacement. There are a number of "mitt-first" catchers available who could replace Vázquez behind the plate and would be expected to hit as well as Vázquez did last year.

[mnfireman]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

I think they could also trade him for some other team's overpriced veteran.

Cutting one over priced veteran for another is not prudent....

[tony&rodney]

Pitchers struggle when there isn't a catcher. Maybe consider the pitchers when thinking about Vazquez.

[ashbury]

15 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Pitchers struggle when there isn't a catcher.

"You have to have a catcher, otherwise you will have a lot of passed balls."  -- Casey Stengel

[Nashvilletwin]

1. The Twins’ success in 2023 was driven by having two top starters. For 2024, Paddack cannot be assumed to fill one of those roles at this point. A solid #2 is the biggest hole in this lineup.

2. The Twins will reduce payroll.  Solving point #1 above cannot be done without moving top prospects or generating available cash by moving at least one expensive vet. Assuming the FA cost of a true #2 is about $20-25MM and the target team salary budget is $135MM, Twins would need to cut about $10MM.

3. In a payroll cutting environment, expected production/value per $ spent becomes a highly relevant metric.

4, Kepler, Polanco and Vasquez each make about the same -$10MM.

5. Which of those three players should we move to open up the necessary $s?  Purely on a production/$ basis, as well as the ability to sign a cheap veteran backup if necessary, isn’t Vasquez the logical choice? Put another way, if you could have a Sonny Gray type plus two of those three players, which two players have the highest floors and greatest upside?

6. As an aside, I’d move both Vasquez and Polanco and reinvest both of their salaries in starting pitching.

[TopGunn#22]

From a BBTV perspective this is a hard trade for the Twins to make .  Vasquez carries about a negative 10 in value, and if you play the BBTV game, you can only ever trade him for some other team's negative, over-salaried problem. (think Kris Bryant).

This could be a situation where "real life" baseball talent evaluations come into play.  The Twins want someone like an Edward Cabrera from the Marlins.  The Marlins are finally back to a place where they think they can compete for a playoff spot, even with the Braves & Phillies and the big spending Mets.  

BBTV's aside, would the Marlins be willing to trade us Cabrera and Sixto Sanchez for Polanco and Vasquez?  In real world baseball, it just might be doable.  A Polanco for Cabrera trade straight up works.  Would they throw in Sanchez, a once bright prospect with a BBTV of zero for Vasquez a negative asset?  If they feel they lack a catcher, especially one who works well with young pitchers, something they have in abundance, I think they might.

I don't agree with Twins ownership needing to trim payroll.  I think it's a big mistake with a team on the cusp and a TV deal that will eventually materialize.  I think it's a foolish and premature overreaction.  But the guys with the biggest bullseye's on their backsides are Polanco, Vasquez and Kepler.  And if the Twins think they'd be alright with Julien/Lee, Camargo and Wallner stepping in at 2B, C and RF,  then they very well could do this. 

They need a #1 or #2 SP to replace Gray.  That guy could cost them payroll for 2024 but even more if they are serious about acquiring someone they would have to pay in 2025 and beyond.  Those who point out the value of Vasquez and depth he provides are spot on.  Camargo may have finally earned his chance.  But veteran catchers who know what they're doing are extremely valuable in MLB.  Even if BBTV says they're not only worthless, but a negative value on top of that.    

[stringer bell]

10 hours ago, mnfireman said:

Cutting one over priced veteran for another is not prudent....

Well, if the overpriced veteran obtained is on the last year of a contract, that would be a plus. Also, if the unnamed overpriced veteran filled a need (right handed corner outfield, first base, or less likely center field) that would be helpful.

[nicksaviking]

23 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Yep. If you're at the point where Vazquez clears you $4-5m of payroll, what's even the point of doing it.

Still gives you some roster flexibility. Giving his job to Camargo, some low priced journeyman or maybe Cossetti later in the year would allow the team to demote/promote/DFA as they please throughout the season. Keeping Vazquez is basically just nailing his dead money to the roster all year long.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Still gives you some roster flexibility. Giving his job to Camargo, some low priced journeyman or maybe Cossetti later in the year would allow the team to demote/promote/DFA as they please throughout the season. Keeping Vazquez is basically just nailing his dead money to the roster all year long.

I don't know if his money is dead money, though. He could easily rebound and be considerably more valuable next offseason than he is right now. His numbers could be better and his contract length shorter. I'm in no rush to dump him just for the sake of dumping him.

If the Twins need to clear payroll, a better way to do so is moving Polanco and/or Kepler. They're more valuable and would return legitimate talent, not just payroll relief.

[nicksaviking]

18 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don't know if his money is dead money, though. He could easily rebound and be considerably more valuable next offseason than he is right now. His numbers could be better and his contract length shorter. I'm in no rush to dump him just for the sake of dumping him.

If the Twins need to clear payroll, a better way to do so is moving Polanco and/or Kepler. They're more valuable and would return legitimate talent, not just payroll relief.

I'm all on board with flipping the other vets, however, I've never liked Vazquez. His signing last year seemed to be a mirror image of the Jason Castro situation. He's basically been a terrible hitter his entire career outside of two full seasons. Good in 2019 (where have we heard that before?) plus a half season of 2020 and 2022. I expect he'll be better than last year, but not to a degree that I'd care to promise him a roster spot all season.

And that seems to be my theme this year. Clear out and stay away from vets with inconsistent track records. Roster the vets who reliably hit the ball every year, or turn it over to the young guys. If you're going to gamble, gamble on the guys you pay peanuts, not the guys that are going to crunch the payroll.

[rv78]

Moving Polanco and/or Kepler makes a lot more sense. All 3 have the same salary obligation and would free up the same amount of money. Unless Vazquez is clamoring to be traded I keep him and move one or both of the other 2.

[Doctor Gast]

I don't trust this FO to get this right. My hope is Correa, who is stuck here & wants to win, would sit down & have a serious conversation with this FO to set them straight. Because IMO this FO is more concerned about having the appearance of being smart than winning. 

[rv78]

2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I don't trust this FO to get this right. My hope is Correa, who is stuck here & wants to win, would sit down & have a serious conversation with this FO to set them straight. Because IMO this FO is more concerned about having the appearance of being smart than winning. 

After acquiring Joey Gallo last year for $11M they don't have to worry about "appearing to be smart". That ship has sailed.

[Mike Sixel]

6 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I don't trust this FO to get this right. My hope is Correa, who is stuck here & wants to win, would sit down & have a serious conversation with this FO to set them straight. Because IMO this FO is more concerned about having the appearance of being smart than winning. 

Ya, winning the division. So lame. 

[Doctor Gast]

7 hours ago, rv78 said:

After acquiring Joey Gallo last year for $11M they don't have to worry about "appearing to be smart". That ship has sailed.

You'd think so, but after this FO was showered with accolades in '19 for breaking the MLB season HR record (largely due to the juiced ball) by focusing on big bats, it all went to their heads & they got their "high", It's like being hooked on a drug. you have no sense of reality. you constantly search down the same avenue to try to regain the same feeling,

[Jacksson]

The prudent move is to just hang onto him for at least the short term.  Vasquez's contract is a sunk cost.  Hook Vasquez up with a conditioning regimen for the off season to get him in the best shape possible for 2024.  Make sure his 2023 hitting difficulties have been examined, identified and coached up.  Catching is a demanding, vulnerable, and perilous position.  The next pitch could very well result in an injury leading to an extended stay on the disabled list.  Let the kid play everyday at AAA and develop.  Meanwhile Vasquez can spell Jeffers, give him a breather when he is nicked up and perhaps become the designated catcher for a certain starting pitcher.  When a team who has lost their starting catcher for the season calls the Twins about Vasquez, answer the phone.  And don't forget to "charge" certain teams a penalty premium for this and any other trades with them to pay them back for prior trades in which the Twins came out on the short end.