Open conversation about the state of the forums

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Functionally, I’m happy with the forums. Echoing others, not a fan of threaded posts. Super-duper hate SB Nation 

Agreed with Squirrel 😱 that the forums are a bit too granular.

on the disjointed discussions, remember when we merged forum topics and article comments that converged? Everyone hated it, it was a pain in the ass for the moderators, tons of complaints, from posters, but the topics were well organized. I’m not sure we “really want” to fix it, at least in a straight forward manner 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

15 hours ago, USAFChief said:

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!1!

That's kind of what I thought but it's important to ask every once in awhile.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Things are actually pretty good.  There is a very strong contingent of posters,  and article writers that seem to love it when the Twins are struggling to come bash ownership, management,  the team or players.  Its not just this websites issue it just seems many enjoy to be negative.    

There were multiple articles on what was going wrong.  We have gotten a sausage article on what has gone right 😉.  Negativity sells I guess.    

[Vanimal46]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:30 PM, Squirrel said:

Other than game threads and keeping track of where former Twins players are now, there doesn't seem to be much use for the Twins Talk forum. Every topic of discussion seems to get covered, and then some, by the writers, making forum discussions repetitive. Although, many times it's the forum discussions that have started it, then out comes an article on the same topic. Still, regardless whether it gets started in the Twins Talk forum first, it becomes repetitive. And now we have the rumors and proposals forum there. With off-season and trade deadline talk and suggestions going into that separate forum, it really renders the Twins Talk forum pretty useless.

The minors forum is great. Everything minors there. Of course, most of what's in there are articles that sort themselves there. Still, it does get mixed in with poster-generated threads. It's just really nice because it's all in one place vs what happens with the Twins Talk forum.

The Other Baseball forum catches all the rest. While not used as much as the others, it's still a place for everything else, so I think it has a place here.

I think there are now an over-abundance of forums.

Concur on all fronts. When I first started on TD nearly a decade ago now all of our news were broken by regular folks like us. And forum topics brewed over time when more information came along.  Times have changed now… You might be 29 still, but I’m going to be 34 next week!

As much as I enjoy that type of stuff, the forums are mostly dead besides game threads. Because we have over a dozen article writers who will cover it way more than we will in a short amount of time. 

This site has been cyclical over the years. I’m likely not going to be a guy who posts as much as I did 7-9 years ago. I’m happy to see it grow as much as it has! 

[LA Vikes Fan]

On 4/30/2024 at 1:54 PM, IndianaTwin said:

I'll repeat a lot of what's been said above...

1. I'll keep coming here. It's the best source for information about my favorite team. And since becoming a Caretaker (hint, hint, people), no ads!
2. I'm so grateful for the moderators. You folks do a wonderful job. 
3. Like Linus, I've felt that a fair number of front page stories recently have felt forced, at times bordering on clickbait.
4. I don't pay much attention to the minors forums, because that’s not my thing, but I do check the results from time to time and follow the rankings enough to have a sense of what's there. They are well done. 
5. By far the biggest frustration I've had with TD over the last couple years has been with the tone, over-reactions and general negativity that feels like has become far more prominent. Like others, I've spent less and less time on the Game Threads, which for me has been the biggest highlight of the site in the past. I follow baseball in general, the Twins in particular and TD specifically because I'm looking to have fun. Each additional time I hear that Rocco is stupid or that the owners are penny-pinchers, etc., takes more of the joy out of it for me. Not everyone has to be a Rocco fan, but there's a big difference between "I didn't like that move Rocco made, and I wish he'd done this instead" and "Rocco is such an idiot." A few weeks ago, it was a breath of fresh air when someone posted a "This is a positivity thread" post. I've thought of doing the same on several occasions.

Thanks for asking, and for always striving for improvement on the site. 

 

EDIT to add: 

6. Technology has worked for me, and I’m a Luddite. 

This. I subscribe to the Athletic but don’t read the comments on the Twins articles because every thread becomes a “Polhads are cheap”  narrative, followed by the commentators calling each other names. Pretty brutal and pretty pathetic. The commentary is much better and more knowledgeable here. I know we live in a polarized society but let’s keep it out of our sports talk. Let’s stay positive. There’s a lot to be excited about this year. 

[bean5302]

On 4/30/2024 at 4:02 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

How is this as a reaction option?

(not serious)

(mostly)

I think it's pretty hilarious, and it'd have a place.

Obviously, the problem is for people who haven't been frequently visiting the site recently, they might not realize the horse has been severely beaten at length after its demise so I could see it being off-putting to newbies. 

[Oldgoat_MN]

On 4/30/2024 at 4:09 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

How do people feel about threaded conversations (Facebook, Twitter) versus chronological posts (what we have now). 

Please no. Chronological works.

Really enjoy this site. Thanks to everyone from owners to occasional posters. I appreciate all but the very whiniest of you!

[Doctor Gast]

On 4/30/2024 at 4:45 PM, Dman said:

I come to this site most everyday and my first love is the Minor League reports and the farm.  I also think this site is one of the best sites for the Twins Draft.  Of course the main goal is the MLB club and I enjoy that too.  I think I just like that you can get enough info to sort of be a mini GM at this site and that is something unique and fun about this site. 

The moderation on this site is superb and generally there is knowledgeable baseball conversations going on.  While I agree with others that I tire of the cheap Pollad talk and the fire Rocco at every turn comments I get where people are coming from.  We are all passionate fans and need a good place to vent when things don't go our favorite teams way.  While many of us are all dug in on our philosophies and differences I wouldn't have it any other way.  The divergent viewpoints are what make the comments a fascinating read.

Hey, I have been burned by stats not matching my narrative before and it is good to get called out or forced to look at things another way.

Honestly I wouldn't change too much about the site.  I like and appreciate all the incremental changes that have been made over time.  I like the Minor league top 20 guys in the upper right and weekly writeup on who is performing well.  This site really has it all and yes things can always be improved, but for me this site is pretty close to perfect as it is.

I'd like to echo Dman's comments. Although I don't always agree with the rants of some people, I believe this is the place for Twins' fans to vent their ideas even though I don't agree with them. Many times I just ignore them. They should be able to do so as long as they respect the other members.

[Eris]

With regards to the forums, it is nice to have an avenue to post information. It doesn’t get used as frequently as in the past but I think the concept is nice. 
 

I do think that there has been an overall  increase in the level of negativity on the site with some of it seemingly personal. I don’t like the thumbs down and I wish it would be removed as an option. I try very hard not to respond to negative comments or comment negatively   
 

There seems to be more articles on the front page and as a result the length of time people are actively commenting on each article is less  (I actually don’t know if this is true, but seems to be my perception)  

 

[Doctor Wu]

On 5/1/2024 at 4:09 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

How do people feel about threaded conversations (Facebook, Twitter) versus chronological posts (what we have now). 

I'd prefer the current posting method

[big dog]

Agree with many of the comments. The game threads seemed to have a lot more posts when the team was losing, which says something about the mindsets of the posters. Mods are doing a great job keeping every topic from turning into the same litany of complaints. Minor league coverage is great, I can quit a set of comments whenever I want, i get a lot of value here, thanks everyone.

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Eris said:

There seems to be more articles on the front page and as a result the length of time people are actively commenting on each article is less  (I actually don’t know if this is true, but seems to be my perception)

I don’t know if true or not either, but agree with the perception. I don’t read many anymore because there just seems to be too much. Could be I’m just busier in my personal life and just don’t have the time anymore. And often there are too many on the same subject. As someone said above, some of the articles almost seem forced and the titling ‘clickbaity’ at times. While I appreciate that the writers have different takes and perspectives, it does feel at times to be oversaturated and wonder if that has caused a real downturn of activity in the Twins Talk forum. That and the formation of other forums, primarily the rumors forum, which I think, ironically, was to draw more people in and invite more posters to generate discussion. There are a few times when someone starts a thread in the forums that garners lots of really good discussion, then a few days or a week later an article coincidentally gets written on the same topic and draws discussion away from the forums. It is frustrating to those posters who bring a unique topic up for discussion only to see it ‘taken away’ from them. It makes it really difficult to try and encourage posters to start their own discussions, either in the forums or the blogs because so much draws attention away. I get that the reason this site was started was to encourage writers and bloggers, with the promise of promotion to the front page, but I wonder anymore how often that happen? Are writers being recruited from outside rather than promoted from within? I’d also like to see a return of poster-written game threads. It’s a LOT of work scheduling them and getting people to volunteer, but it was the one thing that could never be ‘taken away’ from the average poster, but yet it’s what we did. Mostly because it really was a LOT of work and over time interest waned and only 3-4 posters would want to do them anymore. But, for whatever reason, probably a combination of many things, the evolution of things has caused for less activity in the Twins Talk forum. Part of me thinks that’s unfortunate, but the other part just thinks that that’s just what it is.

[Dman]

2 hours ago, Eris said:

 

 I don’t like the thumbs down and I wish it would be removed as an option. I try very hard not to respond to negative comments or comment negatively   
 

 

Maybe it is the Minnesota nice in me, but I don't love the thumbs down either.  While I understand it gives a fellow poster the power to just disagree with a point made, too often it leaves me wondering what it is they disagreed with and especially why.  IMO if someone took the time to post something and you completely disagree then lets hear why by posting your own opinion.  Then we all get another viewpoint on the subject.  I think the disagree button cheats us out of discourse and doesn't really provide much value that I can see.  

[stringer bell]

I like the fan-driven discussions that are on the Twins Talk page. As the author of six threads on the first page of this forum, I can speak with some experience about this. The game thread intros were fun with new and different perspectives, but it happened far too often that the intro was forgotten. I did more than my share of "emergency" intros and reminders of when the first pitch was occurring. Having a short "let's go" actually isn't too bad. 

As noted, I have authored a lot of threads and do get disappointed when no one seems to want to comment on a topic or the topic morphs into something else. As Squirrel noted, often a topic is brought up here and within hours (sometimes minutes) the same topic is on the Front Page and usurps the discussion. That is unfortunate.

I agree that the negativity can be draining, but it is tough to moderate. We should allow people to state their opinions, but some on this site seem to be waiting for failure.

[Major League Ready]

There is a constant barrage of articles that conclude the organization is cheap.  It would be great if just once, someone wrote an article that compared the Twins to other teams in terms of payroll as a percentage of revenue or revenue rank vs payroll rank.  Cheap is a relative term.  With all of the energy devoted to defaming the organization and its owners, it just seems appropriate that a little effort be devoted to providing the information that would illustrate the relative accuracy of these claims.

[dxpavelka]

Sometimes you admins are not terribly receptive to disagreement. 

[wabene]

5 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

Sometimes you admins are not terribly receptive to disagreement. 

I don't think anyone has a problem with constructive disagreement and debate.

[wabene]

2 hours ago, Eris said:

I don’t like the thumbs down and I wish it would be removed as an option. I try very hard not to respond to negative comments or comment negatively

 

1 hour ago, Dman said:

Maybe it is the Minnesota nice in me, but I don't love the thumbs down either.  While I understand it gives a fellow poster the power to just disagree with a point made, too often it leaves me wondering what it is they disagreed with and especially why.  IMO if someone took the time to post something and you completely disagree then lets hear why by posting your own opinion.  Then we all get another viewpoint on the subject.  I think the disagree button cheats us out of discourse and doesn't really provide much value that I can see.  

At first I disagreed with this, but know enough not to just hit the thumbs down, lol. Dman makes the pertinent point. When I get a thumbs down sometimes I feel cheated because I want to know what was actually disagreed with. Sometimes it's just a factional thumbs down, for example the fire Baldelli crew chiming in and it is obvious what is intended. That is where this site devolves into something close to our national discourse. Other times we seem to operate in an open space of ideas and not just a polarized one. That is when we all are at our best. 

For me the thumbs down is for when the person is obviously closing off good discourse. Of course who am I to judge that? So I'm on the fence with thumbs down. It is interesting that on YouTube there is a thumbs down that apparently never gets used. If someone understands why, let me know. 

There is one emoji I will not let die!!!

 

[Tibs]

I'll echo what many have commented already and I've commented this on articles before.

I've been a member of Twins Daily for 11 years now this month. I couldn't tell you the last time I went into the forums to look at posts, let alone comment on one. Probably a few reasons for that, but the Twins Daily specific reason is the content on the front page.

I still come to Twins Daily every day during the season to look over the minor league reviews but that's about it. Most of the rest of the content on the front page has been in clear decline the last 2 years or so. Daily there are articles posted that are obvious clickbait, random hypotheticals with clearly no point, or spreading negativity regarding the team/franchise. Even right now during a 10 game winning streak there are negative articles on the front page or article concepts that are completely pointless.

Seeing that on the front page makes me not want to explore the rest of the site. Not only that, many of those topics should be forum posts instead of front page articles anyway.

[Dave The Dastardly]

The old style Game Threads is what drew me to TD in the first place; the intros that at least drew your attention and became the side stories that might or might not be about baseball but were a like a conversation you might have with friends between innings if you were sitting at the ballpark; bad jokes, sick puns, odd ball humor... more time laughing and less time grumbling.

I know I've spent less time overall on TD in general and game threads in particular since the old style thread intros disappeared. A lineup card just doesn't do it for me.

I know, it was a lot of work to schedule writers and I'm sure it was frustrating as hell for Stringer Bell and anyone else who took on the task of getting all the games covered, but judging by other's comments regarding game threads something has been lost with the new "intros" that are little more than a lineup card.

I don't know if there's a viable solution, but maybe TD should consider adding some incentives to game thread authors and certainly for whoever takes on the responsibility of coordinating intros; a trinket of some sort for the writers, a beer mug, a T-shirt, a bobblehead, whatever, and maybe a couple of game tickets or maybe even a buck or two for the coordinator.

Whatever it takes to bring 'em back.

 

Disclaimer: I've written an intro or two in the past.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

An alternative to how we currently manage game threads is how we do it at North Side Baseball.

There is a list of people who sign up to be game thread starters. When we reach the end of the list, it rolls back to the first person on the list and starts over. Obviously, the bigger the list of candidates, the less burdensome it is on each participant.

In the case of the Cubs, one person creates every game thread until the team loses. Then it moves to the next on the list. That creates a fun environment where game thread starters get to claim a winning streak.

Just an option if people are interested in such a thing.

[laloesch]

Overall, I find the site to be relatively good, but the advertisements are at times maddening to deal with, especially when using the app on an I-phone or android.  They interfere with scrolling down through the comments and cause buffering issues because of so many images and videos trying to cue up.  No issues when open on a desktop computer browser, but the phone.... well that's a different story. 

I think the negativity factor has not been as bad this season even with the slow start.  In years past it was much, MUCH worse.  I also have less gripes with the moderators this season than in previous ones.  Overall (and I'm gonna be fair in this assessment) I think they've done a decent job, but some of them (not gonna mention names) can severely overreact and get WAYYY to emotional, throwing warning points at commenters that really did nothing wrong.  They have (in the past) been much to heavy handed when it's absolutely not necessary in many of the circumstances I've witnessed.  I've also seen them attack commentors implying they have nefarious motives with their comments.  Most of the stuff they were implying was just silly (actually stupid to be honest), etc. and I'm not the only one that has noticed this. A few of them have titanic sized egos.  ehhh your just a moderator something along those lines. 

All that said, I've seen a lot less of that this season which is also good.       

[Squirrel]

42 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

An alternative to how we currently manage game threads is how we do it at North Side Baseball.

There is a list of people who sign up to be game thread starters. When we reach the end of the list, it rolls back to the first person on the list and starts over. Obviously, the bigger the list of candidates, the less burdensome it is on each participant.

In the case of the Cubs, one person creates every game thread until the team loses. Then it moves to the next on the list. That creates a fun environment where game thread starters get to claim a winning streak.

Just an option if people are interested in such a thing.

It’s worth a try. But … those who want the ‘old’ game threads back MUST volunteer and stick with it and see it through and be responsible for them.

As one who helped with game threads throughout the years, first by editing every single thread Brian did and supplying the lineups to them, daily, to helping Chief then stringer with the scheduling by PMing users to consider volunteering, helping to keep track of who was doing what each day and following through to see it was done … it became tireless and thankless, and the ‘rewards’ were far outweighed by the few posters who would crap all over them. It’s a lot of work to try and create a fun atmosphere, and more than disappointing when a few posters come in and trash the place, and those who say they care the most, exit the building without so much as lifting a finger. And then those who used to help make it fun either left or joined in. It just became an unsustainable model.

That all said, game threads alone won’t ‘solve’ the problem of the Twins Talk forum being … way less active than in the past. They are just one symptom, imho.

[Whitey333]

I love this system just as it is.  I read TD everyday and comment at times.  I know my comments can be negative at times.  And my opinions regarding the Twins may be wrong  but they may be right you never know.  The negative contributors are very valuable.  Otherwise all TD would be is a PR forum for the Twins.  That would be far worse IMO. I love TD just the way it is.  Listening to all the comments is very entertaining and informative.  Keep up the great work!

[Squirrel]

3 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

I love this system just as it is.  I read TD everyday and comment at times.  I know my comments can be negative at times.  And my opinions regarding the Twins may be wrong  but they may be right you never know.  The negative contributors are very valuable.  Otherwise all TD would be is a PR forum for the Twins.  That would be far worse IMO. I love TD just the way it is.  Listening to all the comments is very entertaining and informative.  Keep up the great work!

There’s a difference between being negative and being critical. The latter is fine and necessary. Disagreement is necessary. Or there would be nothing to discuss. But the former is a different animal and makes it difficult for everyone, whether critical or positive.

[stringer bell]

5 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

There’s a difference between being negative and being critical. The latter is fine and necessary. Disagreement is necessary. Or there would be nothing to discuss. But the former is a different animal and makes it difficult for everyone, whether critical or positive.

Agree, but I think sometimes the difference is hard to discern. 

[Squirrel]

2 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Agree, but I think sometimes the difference is hard to discern. 

For sure. But I think bringing in generic comments of dislike into multiple threads versus truly giving detail to a specific topic isn’t too difficult to discern. IMO.

[joefish]

I'm an old fart who checks in almost daily. I'm still pissed about losing to the Dodgers in 1965.

I drown in the data and statistics and charts. Nit picking the game to death. I ignore them most of the time. That just brings me no pleasure, but I recognize the passion others have. 

I used to enjoy the game threads and interacting in more intimate setting. Back in the older days I guess. On previous sites. 

But I keep coming back. Thank you.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Dave The Dastardly said:

The old style Game Threads is what drew me to TD in the first place; the intros that at least drew your attention and became the side stories that might or might not be about baseball but were a like a conversation you might have with friends between innings if you were sitting at the ballpark; bad jokes, sick puns, odd ball humor... more time laughing and less time grumbling.

I know I've spent less time overall on TD in general and game threads in particular since the old style thread intros disappeared. A lineup card just doesn't do it for me.

I know, it was a lot of work to schedule writers and I'm sure it was frustrating as hell for Stringer Bell and anyone else who took on the task of getting all the games covered, but judging by other's comments regarding game threads something has been lost with the new "intros" that are little more than a lineup card.

I don't know if there's a viable solution, but maybe TD should consider adding some incentives to game thread authors and certainly for whoever takes on the responsibility of coordinating intros; a trinket of some sort for the writers, a beer mug, a T-shirt, a bobblehead, whatever, and maybe a couple of game tickets or maybe even a buck or two for the coordinator.

Whatever it takes to bring 'em back.

 

Disclaimer: I've written an intro or two in the past.

 

I don't know if it is possible for anyone to miss the game thread more than I... because I miss it so much it physically hurts. 

Twinsdaily users who have joined more recently won't know exactly what I'm referring to but I'm am talking about the Glory days of around 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013. The Twins on the field were about as bad as it gets. Lots of losses yet the negative comments were few and easily dismissed or passed over because the majority of game thread participants were having a fantastic time from Chief's Dad Jokes, to Bark Art, to all of us. It was an incredible group of participants.   

I wrote a lot of openers during that stretch with the wonderful help of Squirrel. I tried my best to start with that fun tone. It was hard to come up with that much weird stuff daily but regardless if I was successful or not, I did it with pride and I never looked at it like it was a burden even though it kind of was.

I was a fully formed adult with fully formed life responsibilities, a full time job and yet like a kid who couldn't wait to open packages X-mas morning, I couldn't wait for the work day to end so I could go home, turn on the Twins and just let those adult responsibilities slip away so I could laugh, joke with all those wonderful people on the game thread. Every... single... day, the game thread was going to be a way to end my day with a smile on my face. There were times that I was laughing so hard that tears were coming out of my eyes. It's really hard to explain to your wife why you are sitting in a living room by yourself watching the Twins and laughing audibly out loud. I honestly can't express how much I looked forward to it... every... single... day.  

Sadly, those glory days were probably not sustainable because here's the deal. When a town grows... it isn't just Andy and Opie moving into town. Otis is coming to. By about 2015 I started to notice the pendulum swinging the other way. The negative posters started to arrive which is going to happen with growth and as time went by those numbers grew and the people who made me laugh started waning and it just kept getting worse every year. 

There were many days that I showed up excited to game thread in Glory Days style and the glory days were gone because there was literally no one to play with. The room was filled with fire this coach, how stupid is that player. 

I was an avid game threader because It made me happy. There is enough negative in this world to challenge everyone's happiness, I do not want to seek out more of it in my off time. So, I would simply close my lap top by the 2nd inning and leave. One less guy trying to have fun while only the rats were left to chew on the woodwork. Woodwork with craftmanship that a lot of us put a lot of elbow grease into. 

Once the tide had turned with no sign of an ebb. Those game thread intros that were not a burden became a burden. The time I spent on the game threads was only sending me to bed angry. I crave happiness... I don't want to go bed angry. So, eventually... I just pulled the plug. I mourn this loss. What I lost was important to me. More important than I can express. 

I've tried to jump in on occasion lately but the room is still to... not what I'm looking for. It will be almost impossible to bring the game threads back to the glory days because the negative is here to stay. The only chance to at least make it better is participation from people who would actually like to be happy and those folks don't surround themselves with unhappiness to find happiness. 

  

 

 

[Muppet]

It might be nice to have an option to mute people for a set number of days (1 week?). 
That way I won't shut people out forever if they are just having an overly-emotional baseball day rather than just here to post endless complainey rants about their least favorite managers and owners.