TRADE: Twins Send Jorge Polanco to Mariners in Five-Player Deal

[JYTwinsFan]

I get the initial reactions to this trade, but it's pretty clear now that DeSclafani is essentially the throw in piece of the deal, not anywhere close to their target in the trade. The Twins are getting a depth starter for free basically (2mil according to MLB Trade Rumors) and overall they save some money which can then be reapplied to an actual starting pitch target or other hole to fill.

So it's basically:

Mariners are gonna pay Polanco essentially his $10mil + DeScalfani's $4mil - fair cost for Polanco's value

Twins are gonna pay $2mil on top of the cost of whoever they get with the savings + a throw in depth starting pitcher as a flier, but let's assume he gets traded or cut + a good reliever + a top 100 prospect + a low A pitcher wild card. 

Once you get past the fact that DeScalfani's a throw in, kinda hard to argue with this trade. Though it will be best evaluated when we know how they deploy the savings.

[stringer bell]

Oops! I believe BBRef has changed content in their trade story again. It now says the Mariners are sending $2M plus the $6M that SF is paying for DeSclafani. So this edition says the Twins are netting $5.25M, putting payroll around $120M. Perhaps another $5M will be spent by the Twins, so we can lower our sights on any free agents. 

[USAFChief]

31 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't care about decent relievers, 6 million dollar throw-ins, or guys who are top-100 prospects on 1 list, but getting 40+ FV grades on others when im trying to compete this season. I don't want any "5th starters" in the sense you're talking about. There's no rule that says the 5th guy in your rotation has to be worse than the 1st guy. You're allowed to have 5 really good starting pitchers when you're trying to actually compete. DeScalfani and Bundy types have no business in rotations of contending teams.

As I said in that post, I don't think they got less than Polanco was worth. I just would prefer to be the team giving up the top-100 prospect and 6 million dollar throw-in to get the best player in the deal instead of making my team worse in the deal. But hopefully subsequent moves make up for what they lost tonight. But there's a difference between thinking they didn't get enough value for Polanco and thinking that future value isn't what the team needed.

I wish I could like this post 100 times.

Spot on.

Although, I do care about decent relievers. But I'm not convinced 33 year old, one hit wonder Topi is actually "decent," nor should it take Jorge Polanco to acquire him.

The stated goal all offseason has been to improve the rotation. This doesn't do that. 

People are now calling Desclafani a "throw in," ferpetesakes. And then somehow claiming that's a GOOD thing. What??

[DocBauer]

1 hour ago, se7799 said:

Comparing Gonzales to Emma?  Really not comparibke at all even in the rankings.  Emma is a concensus top 50 prospect with a higher cieking...So dont co that please..Gonzales is at a best a low 100 type.  Doing Rodriguez a huge disservice there Doc.

No disservice. 

They are BOTH top 100 prospects depending on what listing you want to look at. They are BOTH 20-21 yo coming off A+ seasons. They are BOTH CF that might have to move to a corner spot. They BOTH have power, speed and OB and hit potential but with question marks.

NEVER said I didn't like E Rodriguez.  I only stated that when looking at trade value they were similar prospects. When comparing the THOUSANDS of products that are out there, a few opinions or who should be ranked where is kind of silly when we're talking, maybe 25-30 spots.

I DON'T want to trade E Rodriguez. I ONLY stated that there is a VERY close similarity between these two prospects in regard to value, rankings, rankings with their own teams, and potential in regard to the Polanco trade and similar value in different trade values.

E Rodriguez is our #3 prospect. I hear Gonzalez will be in our top 10 if kept. Is splitting a few hairs in comps while discussing value for the trade between a couple very similar players a disservice to Rodriguez? If so, then I'm guilty.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, harmony55 said:

A Seattle beat reporter offers her take on the trade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMydZACP8hc

 

Read the comments.  Seattle made this trade because ownership is cheap.

Nothing new under the sun.

[FilthyMogwai]

24 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I wish I could like this post 100 times.

Spot on.

Although, I do care about decent relievers. But I'm not convinced 33 year old, one hit wonder Topi is actually "decent," nor should it take Jorge Polanco to acquire him.

The stated goal all offseason has been to improve the rotation. This doesn't do that. 

People are now calling Desclafani a "throw in," ferpetesakes. And then somehow claiming that's a GOOD thing. What??

That's the thing. DeSlafani included in this trade, makes it worse in my opinion. I don't want him pitching on this team every 5th day. Period.

I don't mind the other pieces, though I was also hoping the Twins would be the ones trading prospects with Polo for a strong #1b to pair with Pablo.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Why would the Twins? These statements about contending teams needing to come away with the best player in the deal are suggesting the Twins aren't a contending team. Are the Twins not also trying to contend?

Or, they got some money, a RP and will use that money to replace Polanco with someone similar, or in a position of more need? Plus two prospects.... 

[Jacksson]

Does anyone know if AD will Actually pitch in 2024?  Maybe he'll just be on the DL all season long.

 

[chpettit19]

56 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Or, they got some money, a RP and will use that money to replace Polanco with someone similar, or in a position of more need? Plus two prospects.... 

You questioned their ability to get a better pitcher for Polanco plus money plus prospects before and wanted examples. Who's the 115 OPS+ bat they're bringing in that they were just 5 mil short on?

But that other poster's point was that the Twins couldn't get any of the young Seattle pitching because contending teams need to get the best player in the deal, and not prospects and cash. If contending teams can get prospects and cash then you and that other poster don't really have an argument for why the Twins couldn't have been the team to give up prospects and cash. Polanco and Lee plus cash would give you an awfully solid starting point for a much better pitcher than Anthony DeSclafani.

[UK Twin]

I always felt Polanco was the most likely to be traded with our infield depth, plus he has 2 years of team control remaining which increased his trade value. 

Sorry to see him go as I am a big fan of his but makes absolute sense for the Twins. I like the return we got as well. Sure, DeSclafani isn't anything special, but he's a solid back end of the rotation option. Topa is a good relief option out of the bullpen and we get two prospects, one a top 100 prospect. Can't complain.

[Fat Calvin]

6 hours ago, Markdumont25 said:

This comment will get lost in the shuffle but here goes... I guess I'm valuing Polanco a bit less than the majority of the community but I kinda like the deal. A really solid prospect that, at the very least, could be flipped to provide more immediate help and some decent rotation depth. I I still think we need to do more to replace Sonny but filling out the rotation with a solid back-ender is not nothing.

Polanco has obviously been a nice player for us but I think people are overlooking how unreliable his health has been recently and we already have Julien and have Lee knocking on the door. For better or worse he was expendable and I think this is a reasonable return for him.

 

This comment wasn't lost.  It's one of the best ones I read. And I read 'em all!

[Dave Borton]

Somehow, this pic just looks so wrong (tear drop runs down the cheek).

 

[Dave Borton]

Somehow, this pic just looks so wrong (tear drop runs down the cheek).

 

[pierre75275]

6 hours ago, pierre75275 said:

So...

Andrew D is getting paid 12m for 2024, 6 mil is already getting paid by the Giants, plus 6 mil is now getting paid by Seattle, the Twins will pay much less than league minimum for him, plus Seattle is also sending cash to pay for part of Topa's salary.

The Twins payroll will be around 115mil now. The cash coming back means two things. First, the Twins could dump Andy D for nothing and be out very little, second, just bc they traded for him, doesn't automatically place Varland in the pen. Paddock isn't going to be able to pitch a full yr coming off of TJ no 2. Varland will get starts next yr, as will SWR, and so might Headrick and Festa. 

So for Polanco, the twins got a N0 5 starter they are paying very little for, a middle reliever who was very good last yr, a top 80 prospect, and a throw in. 

Yeah I feel like that is a lot for Polanco, given his medical history the last 2 yrs and who the Twins have waiting to replace him

I was not correct. Twins will be responsible for about 4 million of Andrew D salary 

[AlwaysinModeration]

7 hours ago, NeverSeenATwinsPlayoffWin said:

A combination of a weird French dude, a guy who just had jaw surgery, the coach's kid on a new team, the younger brother of a guy who used to be really good at baseball, and a bum who got non-tendered by a garbage AL Central team.

Ah, I see.  And who’s playing center field?

[William K Johnson]

7 hours ago, wabene said:

I'll bet you a Labatts Julien will win you over at second. 

Yea, like Miranda won me over at third last year.  This trade tells me that the Twins think Lee is close.

[wabene]

12 minutes ago, William K Johnson said:

Yea, like Miranda won me over at third last year.  This trade tells me that the Twins think Lee is close.

Lee is not ready. Julien is your second baseman. I don't see Eddie struggling this year considering his skill set. He is much different than Miranda and not injured. 

[SteveLV]

Like last season, I think in fairness we need to wait until all the dust settles before we judge the off-season.

Objectively this makes the team weaker for 2024, but if Lee comes up and performs, unclogs the infield.  It nets the Twins about $5M in cap relief, and it does bolster the bullpen.

First, I hope there is some type of injury protection for one or both of the pitchers coming over.  At least a PTBNL

Second, I believe the Twins are not done with trades. Still hope they move assets to the Marlins for solid SP help.  My dream is both a controllable SP and Alcantara, sending some salary (Farmer? Kepler?) along with prospects to Miami, the salary to offset Alcantara's contract while he rehabs in 2024.

I hope and surmise the Twins are not done wheeling and dealing at this point.

[jmlease1]

2 hours ago, William K Johnson said:

Yea, like Miranda won me over at third last year.  This trade tells me that the Twins think Lee is close.

well, he probably is. But Julien was quite a bit better last year than Miranda was in his debut, and while Miranda had a lost season it's pretty obvious that was due to injury. Julien is showing no injury issues and so far is showing only one real weakness in his game: hitting lefties (which he's also been protected against). But if you've already decided to be out on Julien after he finished top 10 in RoY for...reasons, then I really don't know what to tell you. There are reasons to not love this trade based on the return and whether it improves the MLB team in the short term, but needing Polanco to play 2B isn't one of them.

[Twinsrtheworst]

7 hours ago, DocBauer said:

No disservice. 

They are BOTH top 100 prospects depending on what listing you want to look at. They are BOTH 20-21 yo coming off A+ seasons. They are BOTH CF that might have to move to a corner spot. They BOTH have power, speed and OB and hit potential but with question marks.

NEVER said I didn't like E Rodriguez.  I only stated that when looking at trade value they were similar prospects. When comparing the THOUSANDS of products that are out there, a few opinions or who should be ranked where is kind of silly when we're talking, maybe 25-30 spots.

I DON'T want to trade E Rodriguez. I ONLY stated that there is a VERY close similarity between these two prospects in regard to value, rankings, rankings with their own teams, and potential in regard to the Polanco trade and similar value in different trade values.

E Rodriguez is our #3 prospect. I hear Gonzalez will be in our top 10 if kept. Is splitting a few hairs in comps while discussing value for the trade between a couple very similar players a disservice to Rodriguez? If so, then I'm guilty.

Doc...one is a concensus top 50 prospect.  The other is on one list closer to number 100 than number 1.  I have had many opportunities to watch him play in person...over 125 games including multiple practices.  You may have your opinion.  But stop trying to convince me your opinion is right.  I will hold my opinion and just state facts.  There is a large value gap between valuing a prospect at number 50 and number 89 or wereever he iby only one outlet.  As opposed to a concensus top 50 player.  And I believe this trade shows that.  There is noway a Polanco trade would bring back a Rodriguez plus type package.

 

[Linus]

If this is step one of a two step process I can wait a little before losing my mind. But I don’t understand how this brings the value needed to get a top pitcher UNLESS ITS ABOUT MONEY.  I have never been on the Pohlads are cheap bandwagon but this offseason sucks. They are short changing a team with potential because they want to save $20 million dollars to add to their multiple billions. 
 

This trade reminds me of all the trades I have mocked where us fans put together a handful of mediocre players and trade them for one good player. Apparently it does happen. 
 

The Twins are worse after the trade. The Twins have less valuable trade assets after this trade. This stinks of a deal motivated by payroll. 

[jorgenswest]

8 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Why would the Twins? These statements about contending teams needing to come away with the best player in the deal are suggesting the Twins aren't a contending team. Are the Twins not also trying to contend?

They say they are. They can show they are by using this money to pay for Burnes or Cease or Bieber while sending out the package of prospects.

[Fatbat]

20 minutes ago, se7799 said:

Doc...one is a concensus top 50 prospect.  The other is on one list closer to number 100 than number 1.  I have had many opportunities to watch him play in person...over 125 games including multiple practices.  You may have your opinion.  But stop trying to convince me your opinion is right.  I will hold my opinion and just state facts.  There is a large value gap between valuing a prospect at number 50 and number 89 or wereever he iby only one outlet.  As opposed to a concensus top 50 player.  And I believe this trade shows that.  There is noway a Polanco trade would bring back a Rodriguez plus type package.

 

Gonzalez is rated by MLB almost exactly where erod was a year ago. Erod is older and a year or so closer to an MLB debut so it makes sense he is rated 30 spots higher out of hundreds of prospects. On the Twins list, he is slotted in at #4 right by erod. 
these guys share profile similarities but also several differences. GG for sure improves our farm system but is at least 2 years away from MLB 

[Fatbat]

5 minutes ago, Linus said:

If this is step one of a two step process I can wait a little before losing my mind. But I don’t understand how this brings the value needed to get a top pitcher UNLESS ITS ABOUT MONEY.  I have never been on the Pohlads are cheap bandwagon but this offseason sucks. They are short changing a team with potential because they want to save $20 million dollars to add to their multiple billions. 
 

This trade reminds me of all the trades I have mocked where us fans put together a handful of mediocre players and trade them for one good player. Apparently it does happen. 
 

The Twins are worse after the trade. The Twins have less valuable trade assets after this trade. This stinks of a deal motivated by payroll. 

With at 115M payroll atm, Falvey has already said about 145M is a likely upper limit. Im not a smart man but I can do simple math.

[Linus]

1 minute ago, Fatbat said:

With at 115M payroll atm, Falvey has already said about 145M is a likely upper limit. Im not a smart man but I can do simple math.

To my knowledge nobody in the Twins organization has said they will have a $145 million payroll. There is no way it goes that high. 

[NotAboutWinning]

I like this trade because it is intriguing. It doesn't make a lot of sense by itself... So waiting for the other shoe!!

[Major League Ready]

6 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

You questioned their ability to get a better pitcher for Polanco plus money plus prospects before and wanted examples. Who's the 115 OPS+ bat they're bringing in that they were just 5 mil short on?

But that other poster's point was that the Twins couldn't get any of the young Seattle pitching because contending teams need to get the best player in the deal, and not prospects and cash. If contending teams can get prospects and cash then you and that other poster don't really have an argument for why the Twins couldn't have been the team to give up prospects and cash. Polanco and Lee plus cash would give you an awfully solid starting point for a much better pitcher than Anthony DeSclafani.

The only problem is that you are ASSUMING Seatle was willing to give up the most coveted asset in baseball for something less than an absolute haul.  You want the highly coveted asset very badly.  Yet you assume Seattle was willing to give it up.  There is no doubt the twins were to get their young pitching.  It didn't happen so it's not that tough to read between the lines.  

[William K Johnson]

2 hours ago, wabene said:

Lee is not ready. Julien is your second baseman. I don't see Eddie struggling this year considering his skill set. He is much different than Miranda and not injured. 

I will remind you of this quote in July.   I guess one of his "skill set" is to guess wrong on a two-strike pitch.   Honestly, I hope I am wrong, but he is defensive nightmare and seems to guess too much at the plate.

[Twinsrtheworst]

21 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Gonzalez is rated by MLB almost exactly where erod was a year ago. Erod is older and a year or so closer to an MLB debut so it makes sense he is rated 30 spots higher out of hundreds of prospects. On the Twins list, he is slotted in at #4 right by erod. 
these guys share profile similarities but also several differences. GG for sure improves our farm system but is at least 2 years away from MLB 

I can efinitely agree with similar profile...thanks for sharing that.  Let's hope he continues on that trajectory..would be awsome for us.  I also understand I am higher on Rodriguez than most.  Yes he could flame out, but from the information I've gathered he is more likely to be a multiple time Allstars type.  I trust the process on this one.

[nicksaviking]

6 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

You questioned their ability to get a better pitcher for Polanco plus money plus prospects before and wanted examples. Who's the 115 OPS+ bat they're bringing in that they were just 5 mil short on?

But that other poster's point was that the Twins couldn't get any of the young Seattle pitching because contending teams need to get the best player in the deal, and not prospects and cash. If contending teams can get prospects and cash then you and that other poster don't really have an argument for why the Twins couldn't have been the team to give up prospects and cash. Polanco and Lee plus cash would give you an awfully solid starting point for a much better pitcher than Anthony DeSclafani.

The Seattle reporter made it pretty clear they were dead-set on keeping their young pitching and the Twins weren't getting any of them. And considering this deal pretty much goes against Levine's comments just days ago about how the team wasn't looking to deal for prospects, and now he's got a whole pile of crow to eat, I'm guessing that until last night, the Twins were dead-set on getting that young pitching.