Is Emphasizing Depth Charges Like Ty France the Right Offseason Strategy?

[Cody Pirkl]

The Twins have made a series of moves in the last few weeks, but each has been an incremental improvement on existing depth. The front office remains more interested in setting the floor of the roster than pursuing upside. Is that the right choice?

Image courtesy of © Katie Stratman-Imagn Images

The Twins signed Ty France to a one-year big-league deal on Wednesday, and he’ll likely see quite a bit of time at first base to begin the season. France may have experience at first base, but he doesn't offer any more defensive competence, athleticism, or offensive upside than Jose Miranda, who was already on the roster. It’s another late-offseason addition by the front office, meant to fill out the roster's margins. Is this the process they should have used this winter?

The Twins front office has repeatedly demonstrated a compulsion to set a floor at each key place on their roster in recent seasons. With a lineup of players bound to miss some time, fill-ins must be ready, should they be needed. Valuable players on the margins of the roster are a nice bonus. It’s a good process, in theory, but we’ve seen these types of moves make very little difference most years, and in 2024, they arguably did more harm than good.

The Twins' class of 2024 floor joists was forgettable. Anthony DeSclefani, brought in to eat a few innings at the back end of the rotation, never threw a pitch. Manuel Margot, brought in to back up Byron Buxton in center field, had a nightmarish season while also playing semi-regularly, due to injuries. Kyle Farmer, whose option was picked up to back up Carlos Correa, wasn’t trusted at shortstop when he was needed and had a disastrous season at the plate. When it came time for the “floor players” to contribute to the team, they weren’t up to the task.

This winter, the team lost everyday right fielder Max Kepler and first baseman Carlos Santana, who had sometimes helped carry the lineup. With a roster still consisting of several players who are likely to miss some time, the roster looks pretty scary when projecting what it may look like if they do.

Players brought in to “raise the floor” of the roster typically come with a low floor (and low ceiling) themselves, which can be seen in all three Twins signings so far. Danny Coulombe is a 35-year-old soft-tossing lefty with the upside of becoming a secondary setup man. Harrison Bader’s upside is based almost solely on his defensive value, as it’s hard to plan on more than league-average offense at this point in his career. It’s been two years since Ty France has put up offensive stat lines that are acceptable for a primary first baseman. In small, well-crafted roles, these guys can be positive contributors, but the odds are that they will either be forced into larger, less well-crafted roles than expected or fall short of even their modest projected production.

We don’t know the dynamics of the free-agent market, or even how the suddenly fluid payroll situation has evolved over the offseason. However, it’s still fair to wonder whether the money spent this winter could have been more effectively allocated elsewhere. Does this trio make the Twins a better team than, say, combining all of that money for Paul Goldschmidt and relying on internal options for backup outfield help and hoping to fall sideways into a left-handed reliever? Time is the only way to say for certain, but the Twins' current front office has shown us through the years that their ability to find impact in the lower tiers of free agency is extremely inconsistent.

We should, at least, be happy with the Twins' surprising ability to make additions so far this winter. That being said, the bitter taste of 2024 is still fresh. With the payroll situation, it’s likely a waste to ask for more, but it would be hard to blame fans for asking for something different. Should the Twins have aimed for quality over quantity this offseason?

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[DJL44]

It really doesn't make sense to hoard prospects if this is the strategy. Why add marginal pitching prospects like Travis Adams to the 40-man if you're never going to let them pitch because you have Tonkin and Topa and Couloumbe? Why carry Mickey Gasper if you're going to add Ty France later?

[Mark G]

I alluded to this in another comment section, but I still wonder if this has ever been a "strategy", or has it just turned out this way because the only players left we could afford were the ones who didn't get a chair in the free agent version of musical chairs.  If it were a strategy, wouldn't trades have been a part of the process?  Or is that still to come?  

I think the jury is still out right now.  

[DaveW44]

Do we really not have anyone in the minors who can put up the stats we are expecting from Ty France? A mediocre fielder who hasn’t hit well in 3 years. I can feel the excitement building for the regular season. 

[Blyleven2011]

Floor player depth ...

Not to my liking , 

Ty France isn't guaranteed a contract from my understanding  , but most likely will make the team unless Ford over achieves in soring training and that will push Lee,  Martin and especially Julian to AAA ...

France Defense isn't rated very high at any infield position and his hitting has been close to average when healthy  ...

Bader with good defense and no bat will push Martin and Keirsey Jr to AAA  ...

Coloumbe was a needed lefthanded option in the bullpen and has decent numbers , let's hope he continues ...

We need hitters and the FO went out and really got nothing to raise the floor in the lineup , add up the acquisitions and they don't add up to anything , add up the projected salaries and we could have signed at least one player better then the 4 mentioned ( Ford , bader , France and Coloumbe ) ...

The FO is competing for fans to return and a divisional title and not a world series , I'm a fan of twins baseball but I won't be attending any games because I too can do anything with my money ...

Inspiration : Yankees manager Boone has been quoted telling the players to be hungry , take the bull by the horns and get that 28th world series victory ...

Rocco tells his players if they don't need batting or infield practice , just come ready to play ..

[High heat]

The die hard Twins fans want to see a winning team.  These moves don’t help us or even could possibly hinder us in this hat quest. 
 

The Twins organization wants to not be a losing team.  If you hover around 80 to 90 wins your competitive all summer, people come to the ball park spend some money and the twins keep the little engine running.  
 

These moves set a floor. If you relied on Buxton staying healthy all season and he missed giant chunks and we have to see a rotation of Martins bad defense and Keirey looking like Vasquez at the plate.

 

You rely on Miranda and Julien at 1B and they are both fumbling throws and out of position or hitting like they did in August and September. 
 

 

[Cody Pirkl]

18 minutes ago, Mark G said:

I alluded to this in another comment section, but I still wonder if this has ever been a "strategy", or has it just turned out this way because the only players left we could afford were the ones who didn't get a chair in the free agent version of musical chairs.  If it were a strategy, wouldn't trades have been a part of the process?  Or is that still to come?  

I think the jury is still out right now.  

Trades have been part of the process for what it's worth. I can't help but wonder if the FO just thinks their ability to find diamonds in the rough is better than it actually is. 

[Mark G]

4 minutes ago, Cody Pirkl said:

Trades have been part of the process for what it's worth. I can't help but wonder if the FO just thinks their ability to find diamonds in the rough is better than it actually is. 

Technically true, but I guess I was thinking about something more than a AAA catcher and the always wonderful cash considerations.  I'm sure I am missing something, but you know what I mean.  😏

[Blyleven2011]

2 minutes ago, Cody Pirkl said:

Trades have been part of the process for what it's worth. I can't help but wonder if the FO just thinks their ability to find diamonds in the rough is better than it actually is. 

Diamonds in the rough , don't we have that in our prospects  ...

If falvey thinks these players are better than our prospects and keeps them at AAA  than I think Falvey is failing at his job ...

DJL44 stated we hoard and don't play our prospects and I'd have to agree with that assessment  ...

Do some of our prospects need refining in AAA  , YES 

[arby58]

When describing failed 'floor raisers' from last year, Carlos Santana isn't included, but a lot of skeptics last year saw him as little more than a Ty France type of signing. Mention is made of pooling all the resources for a Paul Goldschmidt type of signing - would that really raise the ceiling all that much? He is coming off a year where he posted a 98 OPS+ and, at 37 years of age, is more likely to be declining than adding to that.

[jmlease1]

Coulombe probably doesn't fit in this category of "floor-raiser, no ceiling" the same way that Bader and France do. Sure, he's a soft-tosser (by modern standards, anyways) but he's also been very good when he's pitched the last couple of seasons. He's an injury risk, but finished the season healthy. I think if he'd been signed in December he'd simply be viewed as a guy filling a hole & role with the team.

Bader and France are the ones that look like the veteran retreads that have mostly crapped out the last couple of seasons: Margot, Gallo, etc. These are guys that got too much PT, and kept getting run out there even after they were really sucking. Bader will provide defense...but Gallo provided good defense too, but after the first month or so became a disaster at the plate. France looks more like Margot: poor offense, no defense...why?!?

And now we've filled up the roster with MLB contracts for guys that can't be dropped without simply eating the money or praying that someone else might take them off our hands. That makes it more likely that no significant trade happens, IMHO.

I liked the Twins floor-raising strategy when we were running so thin on the roster that we simply didn't have enough MLB-capable players in the organization in multiple roles. Not giving innings or ABs to bad players is a floor-raising move that can add wins pretty quickly and relatively cheaply. But in this case, I'm questioning whether we're adding decent MLB players or just shuffling around who our "bad" players are. Raising the floor is great, but did we actually do it, or did we just add poor MLB veterans to take ABs from younger players in the organization that haven't proven themselves yet but were about the same level of meh?

I mean, Bader's an improvement over Margot, because even if he can't hit either he'll play better defense. But he's more expensive and still might not be good because of his unimpressive performance at the plate. France? I don't know that he's actually better than anyone on the roster.

But when you only shop in the dented can isle, I guess that's what you get. Thanks, Pohlads.

[arby58]

2 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Diamonds in the rough , don't we have that in our prospects  ...

If falvey thinks these players are better than our prospects and keeps them at AAA  than I think Falvey is failing at his job ...

DJL44 stated we hoard and don't play our prospects and I'd have to agree with that assessment  ...

Do some of our prospects need refining in AAA  , YES 

What prospects are the Twins 'hoarding?' They gave significant playing opportunities the last couple of years to former prospects Festa, Matthews, SWR, Varland, Julien, Lee, Lewis, Miranda, Martin, and Wallner. All these players have three years or less MLB experience. 10 out of 26 roster spots isn't exactly hoarding mentality.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

France, gives another shot at finding something special at 1st base.  For 1 million and Headrick,  I think that is more than fair.  This isn't a Gallo situation of giving a 11 million  of money that the front office will feel tied too.  

France hit the ball very hard last year,  but was unlucky, similar type player to Kepler, so with that in mind I am not surprised they took a chance on him.  

Yes there is no great 1st baseman on the team right now, but hopefully we can find 1 to play solid 1st base, and 1 to be a decent DH.  

[teej]

With Helman, Henriguez, and now Headrick all off the roster in the past few days it is dangerous for players on the margin with a last name starting with H. Don't hate the France signing, probably won't add anything but at a million they can move on pretty quickly if someone else in the org makes a strong push at first. 

[Doctor Gast]

I'm all for adding quality MLB depth, that's why I'm big on Castro because he can fill in adequately at so many positions. Coloumbe fills a need although I'd prefer someone better. Bader doesn't fill a need. France? we don't need a primary 1Bman but we do need MLB support. I'd prefer inhouse & better defense but his contract is not guaranteed if he hits he might improve our DH & serve as a backup 1Bman. These additions have directly affected some of our prospects Moran, Helman, Henriquez, & Headricks, Others have affected their playing time.

We haven't had decent MLB catching depth since we got rid of Garver & Rortvedt. We've been very fortunate that Vazquez & Jeffers have been healthy for the past 2 years. because have no MLB depth behind them. So they added 2 more fringe catchers to add to Camargo making 5 catchers on the 40-man, 3 that won't contribute to the team. FO hopes that one sticks but the odds are against it. I'd rather have one promising MLB-ready catcher now than 3 fringes.

My problem with our FO is them not seeing the right need & viably meet it. 

[Cory Engelhardt]

From all accounts he is a good dude, and for everything else he has been available. That's absolutely something the Twins don't have enough of. He hasn't played less than 140 games in any of the past 4 seasons.

Prior to his injury on June 7 of 2024, he was hitting 251/329/403 for a wRC+ of 117 in the first 61 games. After his broken heel he missed 2 weeks and played the rest of the season at a 220/285/336 pace, or 73 wRC+. I have to think they are thinking he can at least get back to pre-injury levels in 2024, let alone possibly even closer to his 2021 or 2022, both would very much help.

And, in the end, if he truly does get outplayed by any of the potential guys that could be looking for work this year, that's not a bad thing either. He's only signed for 1 million for this year. 

Ok, last thing, he is only 30, and his previous 4 seasons prior to right now he has a combined 7.9 fangraphs WAR, 9.2 baseball reference WAR. Those are very solid numbers. Only to compare to Carlos Santana, in the same years (prior to Minnesota) Santana had 4.6 fangraphs WAR and 4.8 baseball reference WAR.

All of this is to say I'm not at all expecting France to be a difference maker again. I just think there is a chance he could be, and for the investment it's not at all worth being mad about.

Hopefully Miranda and Julien and Gasper and eventually Keaschall (and others) can learn a thing or two from him. Especially when it comes to staying on the field.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

53 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Bader and France are the ones that look like the veteran retreads that have mostly crapped out the last couple of seasons: Margot, Gallo, etc. These are guys that got too much PT, and kept getting run out there even after they were really sucking. Bader will provide defense...but Gallo provided good defense too, but after the first month or so became a disaster at the plate. France looks more like Margot: poor offense, no defense...why?!?

And now we've filled up the roster with MLB contracts for guys that can't be dropped without simply eating the money or praying that someone else might take them off our hands. That makes it more likely that no significant trade happens, IMHO.

Margot - $8 million   Gallo - $11 million

Bader - $4. million with a maximum $1.5 million buyout based on plate appearances

France - $1 million  

 

Bader and France are no where near a Margot, Colome or Gallo situation.  With all these bottom barrel signings you are hoping for that 25% chance or less of a breakout year - or a solid year on an aging player like Santana.  We like to crap on the signings that don't work out but tend to forget the Santana, Solano, Nelson Cruz  contracts really working out.    France won't just be trotted out there consistently, you have Miranda and Julien that will be pushing him and may outplay him in spring ball.   France hit the ball hard last year, but also had an uptick on his whiff percentage,  if he can get just a little more lift and turn more ground outs into singles, and singles into doubles, he is back to the player he was in 20 and 21.  

[Cory Engelhardt]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Margot - $8 million   Gallo - $11 million

Bader - $4. million with a maximum $1.5 million buyout based on plate appearances

France - $1 million  

 

Bader and France are no where near a Margot, Colome or Gallo situation.  With all these bottom barrel signings you are hoping for that 25% chance or less of a breakout year - or a solid year on an aging player like Santana.  We like to crap on the signings that don't work out but tend to forget the Santana, Solano, Nelson Cruz  contracts really working out.   

The Twins only covered 4 million of Margot's 2024 salary. The Dodgers covered 4 and Tampa covered 2 for his 2024 salary.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Just now, Cory Engelhardt said:

The Twins only covered 4 million of Margot's 2024 salary. The Dodgers covered 4 and Tampa covered 2 for his 2024 salary.

He is owed a $10 million salary in 2024 with a $2 million buyout of his $12 club option for 2025. The Rays are paying $4 million as part of the trade with the Dodgers-- $2 million in 2024 plus the $2 million buyout if Margot's option is declined -- so Margot is an $8 million player for the Twins.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/dodgers-trade-manuel-margot-to-twins-just-months-after-acquisition-bring-back-enrique-hernandez/#:~:text=He is owed a %2410,million player for the Twins.&text=Margot is a career .

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

He is owed a $10 million salary in 2024 with a $2 million buyout of his $12 club option for 2025. The Rays are paying $4 million as part of the trade with the Dodgers-- $2 million in 2024 plus the $2 million buyout if Margot's option is declined -- so Margot is an $8 million player for the Twins.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/dodgers-trade-manuel-margot-to-twins-just-months-after-acquisition-bring-back-enrique-hernandez/#:~:text=He is owed a %2410,million player for the Twins.&text=Margot is a career .

I read spotrac differently. Thanks!

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I read spotrac differently. Thanks!

I do think dodgers kicked in more,  but that was the article I found.  

Ok,  so yes we were both right,  Dodgers kicked in another $2 million dollars.  So that is how they got to $4 million,  but that was including the 2 million that was intended for the 2025 buyout as well.   In total Twins paid him $6 million is my guess.  

[Major League Ready]

7 hours ago, arby58 said:

When describing failed 'floor raisers' from last year, Carlos Santana isn't included, but a lot of skeptics last year saw him as little more than a Ty France type of signing. Mention is made of pooling all the resources for a Paul Goldschmidt type of signing - would that really raise the ceiling all that much? He is coming off a year where he posted a 98 OPS+ and, at 37 years of age, is more likely to be declining than adding to that.

Many of us, me included, wanted Hoskins @$18M as opposed to Santana.  Hoskins produced at replacement level and we would also have been stuck with a $4M buyout this year.   We fans sometimes prefer to forget these examples.  

The Franz signing has very little risk so what's the problem?  If he looks really good in spring training you give him a shot.  What's the down side?  Julien and or Lee or Martin start the season in AAA.  Lee's wRC+ was 62.  maybe he should start the season at AAA.   Miranda ends up splitting time between 1B/3B and DH.  If they decide to give Franz a shot and he does not perform it cost them $700K to cut him after a couple months.

[Jeff K]

The Twins can't make any big moves until ownership changes, and I think most would agree that this can not happen soon enough.  France does not seem like a worthwhile signing despite his non guaranteed contract.  Takes up a spring training slot that would be better served by youngsters.

[Cory Engelhardt]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I do think dodgers kicked in more,  but that was the article I found.  

Here is what spotrac lists for 2024 and his 2025 buyout. But it's certainly possible the Twins covered some of the buyout for sure. 

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Mark G said:

Technically true, but I guess I was thinking about something more than a AAA catcher and the always wonderful cash considerations.  I'm sure I am missing something, but you know what I mean.  😏

Margot was a trade last year. Kyle Farmer was a trade the year before. MAT was a trade. Trades have been a part of this strategy for years. They both sign and trade for these floor setting kinds of players.

[NYCTK]

20 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Margot was a trade last year. Kyle Farmer was a trade the year before. MAT was a trade. Trades have been a part of this strategy for years. They both sign and trade for these floor setting kinds of players.

I just don't even know what you or others mean by "floor setting" anymore. 

Does that just mean short term deal? Because after it's been used to describe every single Twins veteran player they brought in it obviously doesn't mean low risk low reward. 

[Parfigliano]

54 minutes ago, teej said:

With Helman, Henriguez, and now Headrick all off the roster in the past few days it is dangerous for players on the margin with a last name starting with H. Don't hate the France signing, probably won't add anything but at a million they can move on pretty quickly if someone else in the org makes a strong push at first. 

Maybe having that last name starting with H is the 4 leaf clover that gets them to a new organization and MLB?

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

France, gives another shot at finding something special at 1st base.  For 1 million and Headrick,  I think that is more than fair.  This isn't a Gallo situation of giving a 11 million  of money that the front office will feel tied too.  

France hit the ball very hard last year,  but was unlucky, similar type player to Kepler, so with that in mind I am not surprised they took a chance on him.  

Yes there is no great 1st baseman on the team right now, but hopefully we can find 1 to play solid 1st base, and 1 to be a decent DH.  

I'm glad we're only giving him $1M, but this team has a history of overplaying underperforming veterans. I hope if he sucks they can move on from him, but I'm skeptical.

Looking at the Baseball Savant stats on France, I'm not really seeing "unlucky" or that he really hit the ball all that hard. he was below average on average exit velocity, barrel %, LA sweet spot, squared up %...the only hitting stats where he cleared average (barely) were chase rate, whiff %, and K %. he hit the ball harder in Cincy than he did in Seattle and his numbers improved...but were still not good. There's a lot of blue on his charts.

I hope I'm wrong. But I'm not seeing a lot to suggest this will work. At least with Santana you knew he'd play a really good 1B. 

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Floor player depth ...

Not to my liking , 

Ty France isn't guaranteed a contract from my understanding  , but most likely will make the team unless Ford over achieves in soring training and that will push Lee,  Martin and especially Julian to AAA ...

France Defense isn't rated very high at any infield position and his hitting has been close to average when healthy  ...

Bader with good defense and no bat will push Martin and Keirsey Jr to AAA  ...

Coloumbe was a needed lefthanded option in the bullpen and has decent numbers , let's hope he continues ...

We need hitters and the FO went out and really got nothing to raise the floor in the lineup , add up the acquisitions and they don't add up to anything , add up the projected salaries and we could have signed at least one player better then the 4 mentioned ( Ford , bader , France and Coloumbe ) ...

The FO is competing for fans to return and a divisional title and not a world series , I'm a fan of twins baseball but I won't be attending any games because I too can do anything with my money ...

Inspiration : Yankees manager Boone has been quoted telling the players to be hungry , take the bull by the horns and get that 28th world series victory ...

Rocco tells his players if they don't need batting or infield practice , just come ready to play ..

If Martin was competent at the plate and in the OF, Harrison Bader wouldn’t have received any consideration from FO. If Kiersey was the defensive gem some seem to think he is, despite analytics, Bader wouldn’t have gotten any consideration…….. If Lee/Julien hit the ball in Spring Training they will be on the 26 man and France & Ford have nothing to do with that decision.

I too was/am hoping for a trade or two to improve the offensive potential. Not a fan of either “new option” at 1B! Not in love with Bader either.

However, acting like young guys should just get playing time or roster spots because we’re all pulling for them to succeed is ridiculous. Earn a spot with performance!!! There’s no skin in the game with the contracts of Ford & France…….they’ll get cut loose in a heartbeat IF the young guys can perform ……..Miranda is supposedly a reverse splits guy, so welcoming 2 LH hitting 1B is really disrespectful to him &/or motivational.

[Major League Ready]

41 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I do think dodgers kicked in more,  but that was the article I found.  

Ok,  so yes we were both right,  Dodgers kicked in another $2 million dollars.  So that is how they got to $4 million,  but that was including the 2 million that was intended for the 2025 buyout as well.   In total Twins paid him $6 million is my guess.  

You are correct based on the article linked below from the Washington Times.   I read this as the Rays pay the Dodgers $2M and the Dodgers pay the Twins $6M.  The Twins ended up only paying $4M.

         Washington Times Article