Is Emphasizing Depth Charges Like Ty France the Right Offseason Strategy?

[USAFChief]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Yeah but...  France will be here to cover the other... If France doesn't make the team... It'll be Martin or Miranda. 

Wallner and Larnach are the key to getting out of this thing. Wallner and Larnach are also the key to being stuck in this thing. 

France will likely not take many PAs from either. Maybe a few at DH.

France is here to play 1B.

And he's here to play 1B because this FO hasn't developed one. Despite going heavy for bats early in draft after draft. 

And doesn't have one coming either.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, NYCTK said:

you're here talking as if they just wished harder everything would be roses and they wouldn't need to bring in a valuable player that improves the team. 

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, NYCTK said:

And you can say you don't hate Bader all you want but when you and others are talking like this or lamenting the fact he can't be optioned, that's more telling. 

Man up and tell the truth if you hate the player. I think Austin Martin sucks and I'm obviously not shy about it. 

[Riverbrian]

18 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'm torn.  I don't like the archetypes we draft for offense, though I like that we target offense early.  I don't like that our young players always seem to be lesser defenders than I expect them to be given their athleticism and pedigree.  On the flip side - the pitching pipeline does seem to be up and running.

But all teams have to patch holes in their roster that the farm system fails to produce.  I'm just fully on board with this patch.  That's where I think some of the disconnect is, even if we largely agree.

I agree... I'm also torn. When Chief asked me why I'm not demanding a new front office... All I can say is I'm getting close. 

Everybody I've ever known in life is good at some things and not so good at others things.  Baby Bathwater... that kinda thing. I think this front office has been a vast improvement over what Terry Ryan was doing. We are not signing innings eaters because the farm is starting to produce arms. That's huge and it will pay off in the long run. 

Ultimately, I'm going to judge this front office on development and development alone. Development fills spaces... development provides trade value. development provides more money to sign bigger and better.

What I see them doing with our young position players right now is strip mining them for parts. That just continues the cycle. 

I guess...  Basically... I don't want to join the millions and millions of fans who are calling for their head coach to be fired. 

Right now... I just want them to stop doing this specific thing. 

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

France will likely not take many PAs from either. Maybe a few at DH.

France is here to play 1B.

And he's here to play 1B because this FO hasn't developed one. Despite going heavy for bats early in draft after draft. 

And doesn't have one coming either.

Agreed... They have focused on boppers in the draft... It's kinda curious with that focus... why over the past 6 Years since Mauer left. Our version of Power Hitting Bob hasn't shown up... or even on the horizon. 

[KirbyDome89]

On 2/14/2025 at 11:26 PM, NYCTK said:

And he's not hit lefties since 2019. 

Was Buxton the 4th OF last season? That tells you how dumb I think this question is. And I'm obviously guessing. Maybe it's 350. Maybe Buxton is incredibly healthy and it's 220. Why get fixated on this? 

Great. Let me know when OF no longer need to play the OF and then this is relevant. 

We've been over this; he hasn't faced LHP since 2019.

Nobody is the "4th OF," with the way this team platoons, and that's precisely the point you continue to dodge. 

Why get fixated on how many PAs this team will commit to a terrible hitter? Yeesh.  

On 2/14/2025 at 11:31 PM, NYCTK said:

You people are so hyperfixated on half the game. Was Ozzie Smith a bad player in your eyes? 

What a comp....

[KirbyDome89]

On 2/15/2025 at 7:52 AM, TheLeviathan said:

The utilization is a function of organizational philosophy.  His spot will get that usage, be it him or Austin Martin.  So the complaint is misplaced IMO.

To me it's simple: Buxton is the starting CF.  As of two weeks ago plan B was Martin.  If (when) Buck gets hurt that plan is the kind that gets your entire season sunk.  It's the kind of contigency that doesn't require hindsight in August to see needed to be addressed.

Does it suck we always fish in these flawed waters to plug those holes?  Absolutely.....but it would've been roster malfeasance to walk in to the season without a better Plan B.  And yes, Bader quite clearly represents a better Plan B.

With the important caveat that Martin or someone of lesser stature (be it financial commitment or service time) won't get the same leash. In that way I don't believe the complaint is misplaced. 

Eh, Martin torpedoing your season and Bader saving it seems a little hyperbolic. I think it's just as likely we get to August and we're asking why this club is still investing time in Bader. 

I think the positives Bader brings will be outweighed by his misuse. . 

[TheLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

With the important caveat that Martin or someone of lesser stature (be it financial commitment or service time) won't get the same leash. In that way I don't believe the complaint is misplaced. 

Eh, Martin torpedoing your season and Bader saving it seems a little hyperbolic. I think it's just as likely we get to August and we're asking why this club is still investing time in Bader. 

I think the positives Bader brings will be outweighed by his misuse. . 

Martin playing CF with a fly ball pitching staff is absolutely a major problem for this team.  That day in/day out defensive issue would cost this team significantly depending upon how long it's required.  If we can't agree to that, then it circles back to the fact that posters simply aren't putting enough value on the role of defense at a critical position.

To put it simply - Castro and Martin's 60 starts in CF were absolutely a contributing reason why we missed the playoffs.

Whoever the RH hitting OF is, is going to get played.  That's what the current FO believes in, without Bader those at-bats were going to be Martin.  Now, if they are Martin, it's because we're several levels down the depth chart.  As it should be.

[KirbyDome89]

1 minute ago, TheLeviathan said:

Martin playing CF with a fly ball pitching staff is absolutely a major problem for this team.  That day in/day out defensive issue would cost this team significantly depending upon how long it's required.  If we can't agree to that, then it circles back to the fact that posters simply aren't putting enough value on the role of defense at a critical position.

To put it simply - Castro and Martin's 60 starts in CF were absolutely a contributing reason why we missed the playoffs.

Whoever the RH hitting OF is, is going to get played.  That's what the current FO believes in, without Bader those at-bats were going to be Martin.  Now, if they are Martin, it's because we're several levels down the depth chart.  As it should be.

Yeah I'm not exactly excited about Austin Martin getting starts in CF. I'm probably less excited about a France, Bader, Vazquez 7-9. They could've held water defensively in CF with less investment. Clearly, the Twins want Bader's bat as well. I disagree. 

[TheLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Yeah I'm not exactly excited about Austin Martin getting starts in CF. I'm probably less excited about a France, Bader, Vazquez 7-9. They could've held water defensively in CF with less investment. Clearly, the Twins want Bader's bat as well. I disagree. 

Maybe with less investment, but they weren't going to shop at the big boy table and that's just a fact I've had beaten into me since Terry Ryan.  It is what it is.

We're 100% on the same page about France.  And I keep hoping to see that Vazquez trade happen.

[NYCTK]

2 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

We've been over this; he hasn't faced LHP since 2019.

Having 300 PAs is a lot for never facing them. 

2 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Nobody is the "4th OF," with the way this team platoons,

Actually, you'll easily be able to tell the 4th OF. It's the one that, at the start of the season, isn't starting as many games. 

2 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

What a comp....

Why, in your mind, was he valuable in his career despite having a career OPS+ of only 87?

He's a bad, awful hitter, comparable to Bader actually. Was it malfeasance to allow him to get over 10,000 plate appearances in his career? 

[KirbyDome89]

21 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Having 300 PAs is a lot for never facing them. 

Actually, you'll easily be able to tell the 4th OF. It's the one that, at the start of the season, isn't starting as many games. 

Why, in your mind, was he valuable in his career despite having a career OPS+ of only 87?

He's a bad, awful hitter, comparable to Bader actually. Was it malfeasance to allow him to get over 10,000 plate appearances in his career? 

Ok, we've covered this part too. 300 is the COMBINED CAREER number of PAs for BOTH Larnach and Wallner over 6-7 seasons...