Buxton hurt again

[stringer bell]

13 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Isn’t it obvious the Buck needs surgery?  Get him rebuilt and ready for March 2024. Next man up for 2023. 

I don’t know if anything is obvious. 
 

While we’d like to know more details about Buxton’s health, we haven’t at this point, so I personally don’t expect much medical information. 

[Squirrel]

50 minutes ago, ewen21 said:

I wish I could give this ten likes.  Soreness is all we really get, though.  At no point during the season did theTwins expand on it beyond that.  Even when Rocco went on that  "He'd be out there if he could!  But he can't!" rant he spoke in very general terms.  I thought it was a silly display at the time, but that was actually an effective rant that covered the situation for the Twins.  It stopped the Twins media corps to ask any more questions about it.  Not a single follow up question.  Didn't seem to warrant much of conversation in the press.

Without knowing any actual diagnosis one can surmise this has only to do with Buxton saying "the knee is sore" and the Twins simply pulling him and playing cautious.  Is it simply: Buxton doesn't play when he feels sore?  How about Souhan being a reporter and getting some actual information rather than chastising fans for being "cork sniffers" and "snooty"

They should grill Rocco until he erupts, if you ask me

Because it would be hugely egregious to publicly state another’s private medical issues. While Buxton is a very public figure for us and of course we all want details, but disclosure of that nature is morally, ethically and maybe even legally wrong. It might satisfy our curiosities but we are not owed that, as frustrating as that may be to some.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

He did have an off-season procedure after the season ended in 2022. I don’t think it’s that simple

Also, just cut  him open and operate is naive and ignores the fact it doesn't always work and he's a human, not some robot you can just cut up. 

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

All these other guys, nothing. Buxton is a big deal around here, yet nothing from Dan Hayes, Darren Wolfson, Do-Hyoung Park, Souhan, LENIII, etc. Don’t let your tee times get interrupted by a Buxton update, fellas. 🙂 anyone I miss? 

By the way, kudos to Ted Schwerzler, who takes some heat for some of his takes, but is the hardest working guy on the Twins beat right now, hands down. Thank you. @Ted Schwerzler

Something is going on here.  The silence is deafening.  I'm not exactly doubting Phil's reporting, but he specifically mentions a Twins spokesman in his tweet.  Nobody else has said anything, Twitter is silent and spokesman implies someone said something official. 

Either someone has bad information or today's official update is catastrophic. 😞

[tony&rodney]

14 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Isn’t it obvious the Buck needs surgery?  Get him rebuilt and ready for March 2024. Next man up for 2023. 

Actually, it isn't at all. Surgery may not be even an option. Cartilage damage can only be fixed so much and then one gets shots, injections, therapy, and another couple of rounds before the eventual knee replacement surgery. I don't believe Buxton will be able to play MLB with a new knee.

Not the same at all, but Stephen Strasbourg is going to retire because the time spent attempting to rehab is no longer beneficial or helpful towards returning to pitch in the major leagues. The contract situation has not been divulged yet to my knowledge. It makes sense that the team would just continue to pay Strasbourg and call off the pointless continuation of him coming in for therapy. 

Although it is far too early to guess or stress that this is the end result of Buxton continual build up sessions, fans should at the very least be understanding that it is the player who is suffering physical and mental pain as they attempt every avenue to get back on the field. 

The Twins did what they felt was best for Buxton and the team. I believe the fans should rest easy with that idea. 

[Squirrel]

2 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

The Twins did what they felt was best for Buxton and the team. I believe the fans should rest easy with that idea.

I’m accepting but not resting easy because I think the situation is sad for Buxton, sad for us and sad for baseball 🙁

[Nine of twelve]

Profuse thanks to Heezy1323 for contributing his expertise as an orthopedic surgeon to this discussion. It’s so valuable to learn what an expert has to say as opposed to someone with little to no knowledge saying “all Buck needs is surgery and he’ll be ready in February” or “get rid of him, he’ll never recover “.

[Linus]

I had patella tendinitis and once it got in there it was a bugger to get rid of. I would rest until the pain went away. As soon as I resumed activity it would come back. Finally knocked it out with steroids. There is cartilage on the back side of the knee cap (patella). Apparently you can grind it right away until you have bone on bone and then you are pretty much done. Hope that’s not where Buck is at. 

[ziggy]

Quote

Profuse thanks to Heezy1323 for contributing his expertise as an orthopedic surgeon to this discussion.

Plus one.

I believe in Buxton. I always thought he 'could' be this generations Willie Mays. Watching him play outfield is a thrill in itself. I plopped down some $ on him winning the MVP this year at 33 to 1. Oops.

I hope he can get his knee back to where he needs it ot be to play ball but his long term future is more important. He has kids and I would like to see him be able to coach them in little league.

[wabene]

3 hours ago, wabene said:

I'd argue the opposite. Tendon repairs can be done multiple times to the same joint. They can result in a completely healthy joint (as long as the cartilage is intact). It is cartilage damage that is the most serious injury for an athlete. It cannot be repaired, only mitigated. There is no current technology to replace cartilage. This sort of degenerative damage is what leads to knee replacement. It is becoming obvious that this is where Buxton is at, unfortunately. 

After posting this I realized this sentence should have read, "It is becoming obvious that this may be where Buxton is at, unfortunately."

[D.C Twins]

I've made it to the acceptance phase finally that Buck is done as an elite athlete.

This is a chronic progressive problem (probably cartilage damage with ongoing degenerative process as pointed out by someone who certainly sounds like and orthopedic surgeon above)

It looks like some of you are still in the denial, anger, and bargaining stage which is perfectly understandable and OK.

It sucks. I do wonder how many second opinions the Twins got before signing the long term contract though. 100mil is obviously not a good deal for someone who cannot play.... 

[SwainZag]

3 hours ago, CRF said:

This has to be very tough on Buxton mentally. I'm sure he's well aware of his rep as someone who can't stay on the field for one reason or another. Someone who's fragile and always injured. Seems to me, that this injury to his knee has been kind of a mystery right from the get-go. If I remember correctly, he got scoped for a patellar tendon issue, and to "clean up" some loose particles in his knee. Obviously, no surgery is minor, but as knee injuries go, this was considered a minor procedure. It's not an ACL or MCL tear and reconstruction. We've all seen players come back from those major knee injuries/surgeries to be at, or close, to 100% after. It happens all the time in all major sports. Sometimes even multiple knee repairs. It looks like Buxton's knee condition is chronic and will be an issue going forward. I have to believe that the Twins medical team should know the seriousness and extent of the problem. Maybe something got missed and more surgery is needed? Maybe it'll be something that Buxton will have to deal with in terms of how much pain or soreness, he can put up with and play with? I don't know the answer. Hopefully, we get more clarification over the next several days.

I can't even imagine.   Bryon seems like such an emotional and competitive person.   Not being able to compete send do what you know you are capable of has to be so extremely hard on him. 

It's so easy for us to upset and frustrated with him, it's easy to forget that he's a class athlete and he probably wants to be on the field way worse than any fan wants him out there. 

Looking back, it makes so much sense and it's so easy to understand the extreme emotion he shows when he hits a 460 foot HR.  So much talent.   I just hope they can find some solution so we can see be blessed to see him in the field again. 

 

[TwinsAlmostWin]

The hardest part is there is no precedent for guys like Buxton coming back and being close to his ceiling. Corey Seager is the only player I can think of that had as high of an initial ceiling as Buxton, got hurt, and came back to be the player people thought he could be. The problem is, Seager wasn't consistently hurt like Buxton, so Buxton is in uncharted waters. Could he comeback and be good? Yeah sure. Will he? 85% no. If he comes back and plays 120 games in CF and has a 135 WRC+ for 3-4 years, I'll eat a shoe on Facebook live. He's done and will never live up to his hype.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

So disappointed for Buck. I can’t imagine what he’s going through! Gotta be brutal for such a competitive guy!

[Dave Borton]

1 hour ago, SwainZag said:

It's so easy for us to upset and frustrated with him...

I haven't been upset. I haven't been frustrated with him.

I have been frustrated that such a phenomenal athlete is unable to compete to his fullest because of a seemingly weaker muscle/skeletal condition.. If I have to describe the feeling, I guess it would be sad. Sad for Buxton and the situation which it presents.

I was frustrated with the Twins for tying up the DH role for so long when it was clear that Buxton was struggling  but was unable to compete. Stop. It doesn't do the athlete (Buxton) or the team any good.

Quote

...that he's a class athlete and he probably wants to be on the field way worse than any fan wants him out there.

Absolutely. I can not begin to imagine what he feels like.

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 hours ago, D.C Twins said:

I've made it to the acceptance phase finally that Buck is done as an elite athlete.

This is a chronic progressive problem (probably cartilage damage with ongoing degenerative process as pointed out by someone who certainly sounds like and orthopedic surgeon above)

It looks like some of you are still in the denial, anger, and bargaining stage which is perfectly understandable and OK.

It sucks. I do wonder how many second opinions the Twins got before signing the long term contract though. 100mil is obviously not a good deal for someone who cannot play.... 

I’m still in the River in Egypt phase

[Craig Arko]

10 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

I’m still in the River in Egypt phase

Don’t forget to tip the ferryman. 

[MABB1959]

Knee injuries are bad.  This girl was the it girl for the 2012 Olympics.  I 2011 she had a horrible ‘’fall” tried to come back in 2012 but was a shadow of what she was and didn’t make the team 

 

 

[Brandon]

While the injury is very serious with how much time he has missed.  Lets be patient.  He just got back on the field and he just feels pain for all we know.  Lets see if there is more to it or just a little rest and pick back up and power through,  He could be delayed just a week.

Now if we see a 2 or 3 year extension for Taylor then its time to be concerned.

[Obsvr]

Time for the Walker Jenkins era to begin.

[Fatbat]

7 hours ago, Squirrel said:

He did have an off-season procedure after the season ended in 2022. I don’t think it’s that simple

Its not like the organization has ever said his days in CF are over.  I have no info to suggest that he can’t heal up and play in the field at some point unless his knee issue is worse than the team has said it was.  

[USAFChief]

Sad, but...

I'm afraid I feel like the Twins are better off if he doesn't return this year. He doesn't help at DH.

[jkcarew]

Time for the baseball part of the organization to move on. The org should ensure that he is provided the best medical resources and advice possible, and let what comes after that be whatever it will be. But on the baseball side, in 2024 forward, they need to plan on filling a center field role and have a legitimate plan for DH. Anything short of that is inexcusable from the FO.

If Buxton comes back and can help somewhere, fine. But to plan on it is foolish.

[TWTwinsFan]

Buxton era is fading, without contribute on the filed, he just another Sano

we already have Gallo this automatic out, don't need another one

[Schmoeman5]

19 hours ago, Brandon said:

While the injury is very serious with how much time he has missed.  Lets be patient.  He just got back on the field and he just feels pain for all we know.  Lets see if there is more to it or just a little rest and pick back up and power through,  He could be delayed just a week.

Now if we see a 2 or 3 year extension for Taylor then its time to be concerned.

I don't think it can be that simple. 1st off he's been resting it already. For about a month. Now on the rehab he feels pain after a few games. And you're suggesting that maybe this will only set him back a week. Doesn't seem likely to me. I'm hoping that the best case scenario is that this just costs him the rest of the 23 season. But now father time and history are against him. 

[stringer bell]

5 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I don't think it can be that simple. 1st off he's been resting it already. For about a month. Now on the rehab he feels pain after a few games. And you're suggesting that maybe this will only set him back a week. Doesn't seem likely to me. I'm hoping that the best case scenario is that this just costs him the rest of the 23 season. But now father time and history are against him. 

I certainly agree with you, but the team (officially at least) is choosing to portray this as a minor setback. Rocco specifically said he thinks Buxton is in line to play again this year, as well as saying that Buxton is "day to day". I suppose there is no point in saying that his season is over, even if it is. 

[insagt1]

this is very sad. The last person we get mad at is Buck. The guy wants to play and play at an elite level. But his entire career suggests its not possible. He is always hurt. There are many quality athletes who have had careers cut short because their injuries were chronic and frequent. I'll be surprised if Buck can compete the way he wants to anymore this season. Will shutting him down completely for 7 months help? Or is his body just one more tweak, mis-step, or stumble from the next serious injury no matter how long he rests? Track record so far indicates yeah probably. But we don't know based on what we do know.

Would be great seeing him patrol CF again, and hit for power and average, but I fear those days may be in the rearview mirror. If we are discouraged as fans, just imagine for moment what it has been like for him.

[Western SD Fan]

First, I am not sure who is saying anything negative about Buxton.  I've read every comment in this thread, and it seems overwhelmingly that everyone is more worried about his overall health than whether he will eventually play again.  If he does play again, I do not see a way that he will come back as a full-time CF.  I foresee at best: 50/50 OF/DH with some IL stints sprinkled in to give him some rest.

My disdain in aimed at the FO and Rocco.  When it became apparent that Buck couldn't go, even as a DH, he should have been shut down and evaluated to free up the DH spot.  Sadly enough, production has improved without Buck in the lineup and that's likely attributable to freeing up a hot hitter to stay in at DH.

Rocco of all people should know the concept of saving a player from themselves with his own hype and the way his own injury-riddled career played out.  But maybe that's where being a "player's manager" doesn't work as well as he may have blind spots of being too sympathetic to a player's concerns, needs, or contracts. (Look for my comment on the Carlos Correa thread later addressing this.)

[Heezy1323]

On 9/2/2023 at 12:58 PM, Nine of twelve said:

Profuse thanks to Heezy1323 for contributing his expertise as an orthopedic surgeon to this discussion. It’s so valuable to learn what an expert has to say as opposed to someone with little to no knowledge saying “all Buck needs is surgery and he’ll be ready in February” or “get rid of him, he’ll never recover “.

I appreciate the kind words. I'm never quite sure when to 'chime in' vs not. Please feel free to tag me in future posts if you have questions, and I'll do my best to answer back. I don't read TD every day, but try to check here often. Between the Athletic and the Gleeman/Geek podcasts, there's so much great twins content.

[East Coast Twin]

CBSSports.com reports this morning that Buxton will not accompany the Saints on their six day road trip.  The cited source is the StarTribune, but I couldn't find the source article.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/twins-byron-buxton-takes-pause-in-rehab-assignment/