Ted Schwerzler Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 Last week may have been the craziest in organization history for the Minnesota Twins. There was expected pandemonium coming out of the lockout, and Derek Falvey delivered. In his past and present moves, he continues to display flexibility in roster construction. It bodes well for the Twins' chances. When the deal for Carlos Correa became official, the Twins went from having no shortstop to arguably the best in baseball. Inked to a three-year contract worth $105.3 million, Correa gives Minnesota a strong option at a position of need. However, what immediately became apparent in the deal is that there’s an opportunity for everyone to shift things in the future. Correa’s contract includes a limited no-trade clause for 2022, presumably only being open to contenders. Then there are opt-outs for both 2023 and 2024, with full no-trade clauses should he stay with the Twins. Making $35 million this season, Correa has the opportunity to bet on himself should he desire a long-term deal next offseason. Minnesota can pivot from a star talent if things go belly up, and they could really be on the hook for just $35 million should the former Astros star go elsewhere. Before acquiring Correa, Minnesota moved on from Josh Donaldson and the $50 million remaining on his contract. Spending just two seasons in Minnesota, one of which was truncated due to Covid, Donaldson earned just $30 million of his near $100 million contract after becoming the largest free-agent signing in Twins history. Despite a productive 2021 season, in which his legs remained relatively healthy, Falvey chose to pivot from Donaldson and turn the roster over. We’ve seen this shake out as the front office sent Jose Berrios to the Toronto Blue Jays rather than being the ones to pay him. Instead of inking their frontline starter to a long-term deal, Minnesota picked up top prospects and then swung a trade for another arm that looks very similar to Berrios. A few seasons ago, we watched Minnesota swing a deal for Jaime Garcia, then with the Atlanta Braves, only to make one start before sending him to the New York Yankees. The 2017 club went on to make the American League Wild Card game, but it was buying and selling at the deadline that helped them go from three games below .500 to seven games above. I’ve been adamant that Minnesota didn’t need to dump Donaldson’s contract to sign Trevor Story (or, as we found out, Carlos Correa). The front office apparently agrees with that sentiment as well, and the greater plan was to shift the roster around. Having acquired a new third baseman, catcher, and now shortstop, there’s plenty of talent to challenge the American League Central and beyond. There are more additions coming for this roster, and ultimately it comes down to who Falvey sees as the best combination of talents and personalities. Over the years, we’ve heard plenty about the Twins being reluctant to sign a free agent pitcher to a long-term deal. That’s generally what the market trends have suggested needs to happen, but we are being shown Minnesota’s willingness to get creative for top talent in ways that don’t hamstring future flexibility. Maybe Sonny Gray isn’t with the Twins past the 2023 season, and maybe Carlos Correa decides to go elsewhere after 2022, but there’s no denying that this front office continues to find a way to give themselves flexibility. Adding talent isn’t a straightforward practice, and having dollars doesn’t necessarily mean spending them on the first long-term deal to be accepted is the best get. Patience is hard to practice while holes need to be filled and options fly off the board. You have to give it to this regime, though; they know what they’re doing even if they march to the beat of their own drum. MORE FROM TWINS DAILY — Latest Twins coverage from our writers — Recent Twins discussion in our forums — Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook, or email View full article
GNess Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 Interesting take. The FO is certainly thinking out of the box. It is refreshing. Karbo, Richie the Rally Goat, Dman and 2 others 5
miracleb Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 flexibility doesn't equal long term success. It might mean we are a .500 plus team this year. That would be improvement and the front office keeps it's job. I guess it depends on what you are looking for. Mark G, Karbo, Twinsrule1991 and 4 others 7
Whitey333 Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 How about a what have you done for me lately comment? Where's the major league starting pitching staff? We need another starting pitcher or two to be competitive. I am confident they will add a quality starter soon. If not then what's the point of signing Correa? It's nice to see all the moves in an attempt to be a contender!! Let's keep it going! miracleb, Richie the Rally Goat, Mark G and 6 others 9
mikelink45 Old-Timey Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 Correa and Gray leave 2023 - let's hope Lewis and all our minor league arms are ready to carry the team. It is an interesting win now strategy and a hell of a deal for Correa - the highest salary and the ability to just walk away when he wants. Glad to have him, but the reality is that he and Boras did great. Doctor Gast, Mark G and Karbo 3
Richie the Rally Goat Community Moderator Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 37 minutes ago, Whitey333 said: How about a what have you done for me lately comment? Where's the major league starting pitching staff? We need another starting pitcher or two to be competitive. I am confident they will add a quality starter soon. If not then what's the point of signing Correa? It's nice to see all the moves in an attempt to be a contender!! Let's keep it going! This is where I’m at too. Starting pitching is not where it needs to be, to really compete. A number 1 or 2 in the rotation is sorely needed and when the pitching pipeline starts delivering, Bundy can be DFA’d this season, and they’re only committed to Maeda and Gray through 23. There’s not many options in free agency and the pitching staff is poised to turn over. DocBauer 1
Trov Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 This FO has always shown they are willing to make moves, but also never married to an idea. I like the difference in FO than what we had for the 10 years prior. I did like Terry Ryan and feel he did a good job when he first started, but he failed to change with the times. Bill Smith did a good job of signing some young guys and some decent drafting in his days, but was terrible at trades. It is still too early to tell how the FO is doing drafting, but in next year or two we will see if they made some good drafts or not. Just like all FO there will be some misses and some hits no one expected. What I like is that despite Donaldson being okay, they felt he was not going to give them what they wanted moving forward. Maybe we could have signed a FA SS with Donaldson on the books, but it frees up 3rd base where we have now 3 possible guys to fill in. Donaldson was fading quickly too. He stayed healthy and put up decent offense, but his defense was fading and he was quickly going to be a 1st base DH guy. He could not run at all anymore. I hated seeing him hit in the 2 hole with Buck in the 3, because if Donaldson was on base Buck was limited to what he could on the bases. Yes Donaldson had more power than who most likely will replace him over the year, but I think we will most likely have an upgraded team. Really, we have not given up anything that hurts our near future either. Hopefully we bring in at least 1 more starter, but even if Correa walks after this year, we can pivot to the FA SS next year or use one of our internal prospects if they are ready. We filled a hole for this year without handcuffing us in the future. That was my biggest worry about a long term deal with Story. I was concerned he would come no where near producing what we wanted after the first year or two and we would be stuck paying him way too much to play second base putting up subpar offense. Maybe I will be wrong on him, but I bet Story does not opt out his last couple years of his contract and Boston will be regretting his contract. Melissa, Dman, LA Vikes Fan and 3 others 6
beterday Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 I tend to agree with the front office of the Twins that signing these high annual salary, long term contracts don't work out over time. Isn't that why most people on this board were complaining about Donaldson? I don't remember the response when he was signed, but I know I was excited. Let's evaluate Berrios in 7 years to see how big of a mistake it was to let him go. I would like to see an article about how past long term signings have turned out. I'm sure Falvine has this information and is basing their decisions on it.
RJA Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 I agree that the FO is showing flexibility, and signing Correa was an incredible move. Kudos to them. My wish, however, is that they combine in the box thinking (nabbing a quality starter out of the best free agent pitching class in memory) with out of the box thinking like jumping quickly on opportunities that are presented to them like signing Correa. Heiny, Karbo and Linus 3
Heistyman Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 I'm not ready to start building a statue quite yet. Twinsrule1991, Karbo, Doctor Gast and 1 other 4
beckmt Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 16 minutes ago, beterday said: I tend to agree with the front office of the Twins that signing these high annual salary, long term contracts don't work out over time. Isn't that why most people on this board were complaining about Donaldson? I don't remember the response when he was signed, but I know I was excited. Let's evaluate Berrios in 7 years to see how big of a mistake it was to let him go. I would like to see an article about how past long term signings have turned out. I'm sure Falvine has this information and is basing their decisions on it. I tend to agree with this more on pitchers and not so much on position players. Pitchers tend to decline quickly (except for the special few), and the last few years of those contracts can be bad. At the age these players were, do not see an issue. Twins will have a new TV contract in the next few years and the MLB keeps signing great contracts for rights. Those get shared. Also with inflation dollars today are greater than the same dollars tomorrow. For me on position players it depends on the fit and temperament. Twins have a lot of young pitchers coming, lets find out what we have. Karbo 1
Twinsrule1991 Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 The ability to be flexible and pivot is fine, but if the results are the same as previous, does it even matter? I think they definitely work in a unique way, but that hasn't led to any meaningful success, which is why we are all here in the first place. Karbo 1
Swing Batter-Batter Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 I think the Twins front office might still be stinging a little, over the 2021 starting pitching pick ups, that ended up being complete busts......Shoemaker & Happ come to mind. The only free agents left out there are more than likely, more of the same. There are arms in the minors, that might be able to help in July and beyond. The challenge might be, staying competitive until then. Karbo and Twinsrule1991 2
tarheeltwinsfan Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 2 hours ago, mikelink45 said: Correa and Gray leave 2023 - let's hope Lewis and all our minor league arms are ready to carry the team. It is an interesting win now strategy and a hell of a deal for Correa - the highest salary and the ability to just walk away when he wants. Glad to have him, but the reality is that he and Boras did great. Correa and Boras did great, but so did the Twins. It is win, win. Richie the Rally Goat, Doctor Gast, wabene and 3 others 6
tarheeltwinsfan Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 Can you explain how much the Twins actually paid Donaldson of his almost $100 million salary? I did not understand the numbers in this article. Maybe I just don't know the meaning of the word "truncated". Thanks. Doctor Gast 1
old nurse Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said: Can you explain how much the Twins actually paid Donaldson of his almost $100 million salary? I did not understand the numbers in this article. Maybe I just don't know the meaning of the word "truncated". Thanks. You likely know the meaning of truncated. Paying someone less for a shortened season is not truncating a contract. The Twins agreed to pay Donaldson 40.5 million over 2 seasons. When the season was truncated, the contract was reduced accordingly. However, the contract was not shortened., Dman and Danchat 2
The Mad King Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 The Maeda and Lewis injuries are what really threw wrenches into their plans apparently. They have now effectively countered the Lewis injury, it's the Maeda injury that still haunts this team. I have no expectation of seeing him this year. wabene 1
chinmusic Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 2 hours ago, beterday said: I tend to agree with the front office of the Twins that signing these high annual salary, long term contracts don't work out over time. Isn't that why most people on this board were complaining about Donaldson? I don't remember the response when he was signed, but I know I was excited. Let's evaluate Berrios in 7 years to see how big of a mistake it was to let him go. I would like to see an article about how past long term signings have turned out. I'm sure Falvine has this information and is basing their decisions on it. Berrios is 6 or 7 years younger than Donaldson, and has never missed a start. Donaldson, on the other hand, has chronic calf issues, and has spent a lot of time on the IL. Even when in the lineup, he's often hobbling on the basepaths. h2oface 1
Ted Schwerzler Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Author Posted March 22, 2022 4 hours ago, miracleb said: flexibility doesn't equal long term success. It might mean we are a .500 plus team this year. That would be improvement and the front office keeps it's job. I guess it depends on what you are looking for. I guess I'm not sure the point you're making correlates? Rather than being rooted in a singular focus to improve, they adapt. Hunter48 1
Ted Schwerzler Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Author Posted March 22, 2022 3 hours ago, mikelink45 said: Correa and Gray leave 2023 - let's hope Lewis and all our minor league arms are ready to carry the team. It is an interesting win now strategy and a hell of a deal for Correa - the highest salary and the ability to just walk away when he wants. Glad to have him, but the reality is that he and Boras did great. There's virtually never, outside of Mauer, been a point in which the Twins have committed long term to a player. That rarely winds up well, and few players are deserving. Why does it matter when they leave? The front office showing a commitment to that level of player, and the organization being able to acquire them, is what you should want to see. Heiny and chpettit19 2
Ted Schwerzler Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Author Posted March 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Twinsrule1991 said: The ability to be flexible and pivot is fine, but if the results are the same as previous, does it even matter? I think they definitely work in a unique way, but that hasn't led to any meaningful success, which is why we are all here in the first place. Hasn't led to meaningful success? They were coming off two-straight division titles and made the postseason in three of their first five years after Minnesota had not previously been since 2010... Hunter48, Mike Sixel, Heiny and 1 other 3 1
Ted Schwerzler Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Author Posted March 22, 2022 1 hour ago, tarheeltwinsfan said: Can you explain how much the Twins actually paid Donaldson of his almost $100 million salary? I did not understand the numbers in this article. Maybe I just don't know the meaning of the word "truncated". Thanks. They paid him roughly $30. Truncated means shortened. They only paid him a 60 game prorated portion in 2020. Then last season he made his full $21.75M tarheeltwinsfan 1
Doctor Gast Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 I will grant you that this FO has shown flexibility in seizing Correa when the Story negociations were going south fast. They were heading to where there was no options left, to getting the best option, But I disagree with you about 2017 that after they obtained Jamie Garcia instead of 2X down they turned around and punted by selling off several players. We advanced not because those moves but inspite of them. Players really turn it on when the FO is behind them much Atlanta did last year. At the deadline the Braves had less than impressive record chosed to improve and not punt. Now that the Twins signed Correa and traded for Gray and making an attempt at another SP. Especially if we shore up our weak points, the players will pick up on it and perform accordingly. tarheeltwinsfan, Hunter48 and Linus 3
MABB1959 Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 How long will they keep going with Kepler?
KirbyDome89 Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 The same "flexibility," tanked last season, and has played a massive role in the state of the pitching staff.
mikelink45 Old-Timey Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Ted Schwerzler said: There's virtually never, outside of Mauer, been a point in which the Twins have committed long term to a player. That rarely winds up well, and few players are deserving. Why does it matter when they leave? The front office showing a commitment to that level of player, and the organization being able to acquire them, is what you should want to see. Because I am concerned about more than 2022 and not sure that we can deliver the results that we want with Correa in the lineup. It depends on pitching, but with the opt out, 2023 could start us with another SS quest. I hope not, but yes I want more than one year of Correa.
Adam Krueger Verified Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 In my recollection, Falvey was brought over to try and duplicate what he had done in Cleveland...which was primarily pitching-oriented. Twins teams in the early part of the 2000s didn't really have trouble on offense - yeah, they were the 'piranhas', but they still got the job done. Pitching, particularly starting pitching depth, has been this team's achilles heel now for 20+ years. A farm system that has been unable to consistently produce quality starting pitching has been a problem for just as long. It was thought that Falvey and Levine were going to be able to change those outcomes, because they had built such a renown pipeline when they were with Cleveland (Kluber, Carrasco, Salazar, Cody Allen, Bieber, etc). Maybe its still too early to say given how long the timelines are for SP prospects, but man - it feels like more of the same from before he was brought on-board. h2oface 1
h2oface Old-Timey Member Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 Since the trade deadline last summer.... Pitching worse. Which was already bad. Shortstop lots better. Catching way worse. Third base worse. Prospects? They mean nothing until and if they make the MLB team better. 3 worse, one better. Hmmmmm. Pitching is the need. Pitching. Pitching.
PseudoSABR Verified Member Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 4 hours ago, h2oface said: 3 worse, one better. Hmmmmm. Science! TheLeviathan and h2oface 1 1
TheLeviathan Old-Timey Member Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 5 hours ago, h2oface said: Since the trade deadline last summer.... Pitching worse. Which was already bad. Shortstop lots better. Catching way worse .Third base worse. Prospects? They mean nothing until and if they make the MLB team better. 3 worse, one better. Hmmmmm. Pitching is the need. Pitching. Pitching. This is the kind of even-handed, nuanced analysis TD is known for! wabene, h2oface and PseudoSABR 2 1
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