BREAKING: Twins Dismiss Manager Rocco Baldelli

[Hubie29]

1 hour ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

It won't make any difference if Falvey stays.  He will just hire another spreadsheet guy so I have my doubts whether this will make us better.

Maybe a spread sheet guy that knows baseball strategy! Rocco had NO CLUE!

[rdehring]

Which team had the largest payroll this year, the Twins, Guardians, Detroit, Kansas City or Milwaukee Brewers?

[Dave Borton]

31 minutes ago, AugieOjedaFanboy said:

...and might get an opportunity to manage the Angels soon.

If they do manage to hire Hunter, though, it would be the first positive PR decision they've made in a long time.

Only thing tougher than being a Twins fan is being an Angels fan.

[chinmusic]

55 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Had to happen.

Sadly, but yes, it did.

Rocco will land on his feet elsewhere.

[Vanimal46]

Falvey needs to be next. 

[Hubie29]

1 hour ago, C-Gangster said:

Ill ask this again how is this Rocco's fault and not the Pholads

Not Roccos fault with the roster. But Roccos fault with the inept baseball strategy!

[chpettit19]

49 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

The Pohlads also are at fault.

But Baldelli couldn't and wouldn't develop young players. And if you're going to roll with a rebuild and young players, you have to get a manager who is willing and able to use them in any and every situation Not someone who constantly micro manages them so they never learn when and how to trust their own natural athletic abilities.

I think this is the core question, though. Did those decisions come from on high or was that all Rocco? He played Lee, Julien, Lewis, Miranda, Wallner, Kirilloff, and Larnach all extensively when they were called up. Minus the platooning of the lefties. I find it impossible to believe that Falvey and the front office nerds (I'm a nerd so that's not a rude word) watched him manage those guys how he did and felt it was the wrong way to do it but didn't change a thing over his entire tenure.

Falvey and Rocco talked every day during the season. Multiple times some days. There's no way they were putting their heads together to solve the problems at the end of last year and all of this year watching guys underperform while Falvey thought Rocco was misusing young players and didn't make a change. Falvey believes in those strategies, it's why they were deployed. Falvey didn't bring in the Margot, Luplow, and Garlicks of the world because he thought Rocco would use them any differently than he did. 

Why should we expect anything other than Rocco 2.0 to be hired? I don't believe Falvey fired Rocco because he disagreed with anything he did. He fired him because the Pohlads said they needed a fall guy and Falvey couldn't just use the hitting coaches again. Falvey believes in these strategies and built teams designed specifically to use them. Change needs to start at the top. Until Falvey goes there's no reason to believe different strategies will be used.

Joe Maddon has a lot of great stuff out there about the overreaching of front offices into the clubhouse. He's very open about it being the reason he doesn't manage anymore. If the front office isn't going to change their directives to the manager, then who the manager is doesn't mean much. If they are going to continue to build rosters designed to have players move around a lot and platoon like crazy then we're just going to see the same thing. It all starts at the top. Firing Rocco had to happen. No way you could explain away bringing him back next year. But it doesn't solve any core problems because they all start at the top.

[djvang]

5 minutes ago, rdehring said:

Which team had the largest payroll this year, the Twins, Guardians, Detroit, Kansas City or Milwaukee Brewers?

Three playoff teams - Cincinnati, Milwaukee and Cleveland, had lower payroll than the Twins.

[jkcarew]

So…manager, general manager, owner.

We’re 1-3 so far, with a single. 667 OPS. Not great, but better than 0-3.

The GM would make it 2-3 with a double. 1.667 OPS. Worth celebrating.

The Pohlads gone would make it. 3-3 with a double and HR.  3.333 OPS!! And we parade down Hennepin Ave.

[Vanimal46]

Rocco wasn’t the biggest problem in the organization- still the Pohlads - but there was very little to indicate Rocco is a solution for a rebuilding team. It’s time for Falvey to go too. 

[djvang]

42 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

I predict the beginning of the Toby Gardenhire era!

Because the Saints had such a good season?

[Woof Bronzer]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

I think this is the core question, though. Did those decisions come from on high or was that all Rocco? He played Lee, Julien, Lewis, Miranda, Wallner, Kirilloff, and Larnach all extensively when they were called up. Minus the platooning of the lefties. I find it impossible to believe that Falvey and the front office nerds (I'm a nerd so that's not a rude word) watched him manage those guys how he did and felt it was the wrong way to do it but didn't change a thing over his entire tenure.

Falvey and Rocco talked every day during the season. Multiple times some days. There's no way they were putting their heads together to solve the problems at the end of last year and all of this year watching guys underperform while Falvey thought Rocco was misusing young players and didn't make a change. Falvey believes in those strategies, it's why they were deployed. Falvey didn't bring in the Margot, Luplow, and Garlicks of the world because he thought Rocco would use them any differently than he did. 

Why should we expect anything other than Rocco 2.0 to be hired? I don't believe Falvey fired Rocco because he disagreed with anything he did. He fired him because the Pohlads said they needed a fall guy and Falvey couldn't just use the hitting coaches again. Falvey believes in these strategies and built teams designed specifically to use them. Change needs to start at the top. Until Falvey goes there's no reason to believe different strategies will be used.

Joe Maddon has a lot of great stuff out there about the overreaching of front offices into the clubhouse. He's very open about it being the reason he doesn't manage anymore. If the front office isn't going to change their directives to the manager, then who the manager is doesn't mean much. If they are going to continue to build rosters designed to have players move around a lot and platoon like crazy then we're just going to see the same thing. It all starts at the top. Firing Rocco had to happen. No way you could explain away bringing him back next year. But it doesn't solve any core problems because they all start at the top.

Yep, great comment.  Rocco had to go, and his firing won't change anything. Both things can be true. 

[djvang]

6 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

Not Roccos fault with the roster. But Roccos fault with the inept baseball strategy!

Like failing to bunt the ghost runner to third in the last game. 

[Dman]

I liked Baldelli.  He never threw his players under the bus and the clubhouse always seemed pretty rosy since he has been here.

Still right or wrong a change needed to be made.  This team hasn't performed all that well under his leadership.  They shook up the roster might as well shake up the leader of the clubhouse.  Some new blood seems necessary right now.

I wish Rocko well.  I think he will land a MLB job again.  Hopefully the Twins find someone good to replace him.

[pierre75275]

Toby is next up in the Twins dugout.

[Unwinder]

The Pohlads must be delighted to have such a convenient opportunity to appear to be taking action without spending money.

[chinmusic]

1 hour ago, rdehring said:

Which team had the largest payroll this year, the Twins, Guardians, Detroit, Kansas City or Milwaukee Brewers?

Not the point, I know, but were the combined payrolls of the A.L. Central equal to the payroll of the amazin' Mets? Probably more, but not by a whole lot.

[jorgenswest]

The Twins came out of spring training losing with a 4-11 start. They followed that with coming out of the All Star break losing a series to the Rockies and going 4-8 in a time when they needed to fight to stay in the chase. They weren’t ready to start the season. They weren’t ready to start the second half. I know it is the players that play the game but I think a different manager would have had them ready. Go 14-13 in those stretches and they are in the wild card mix at 57-51. This is a different season if the team was ready to go out of spring training and after the break.

For those that argue that the blame can be spread on the owners, front office staff and players. I don’t disagree. Change is needed and necessary though. New energy will emerge from the change. Changing the manager is an effective way to bring about that energy.

I wish Rocco well and appreciate his time with the Twins. The 2019 season was amazing to watch. They won a playoff series. Good moments but he needs change also. Change is good and necessary for any professional. I expect he will be back managing and leading his team to the playoffs. 

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I think this is the core question, though. Did those decisions come from on high or was that all Rocco? He played Lee, Julien, Lewis, Miranda, Wallner, Kirilloff, and Larnach all extensively when they were called up. Minus the platooning of the lefties. I find it impossible to believe that Falvey and the front office nerds (I'm a nerd so that's not a rude word) watched him manage those guys how he did and felt it was the wrong way to do it but didn't change a thing over his entire tenure.

Falvey and Rocco talked every day during the season. Multiple times some days. There's no way they were putting their heads together to solve the problems at the end of last year and all of this year watching guys underperform while Falvey thought Rocco was misusing young players and didn't make a change. Falvey believes in those strategies, it's why they were deployed. Falvey didn't bring in the Margot, Luplow, and Garlicks of the world because he thought Rocco would use them any differently than he did. 

Why should we expect anything other than Rocco 2.0 to be hired? I don't believe Falvey fired Rocco because he disagreed with anything he did. He fired him because the Pohlads said they needed a fall guy and Falvey couldn't just use the hitting coaches again. Falvey believes in these strategies and built teams designed specifically to use them. Change needs to start at the top. Until Falvey goes there's no reason to believe different strategies will be used.

Joe Maddon has a lot of great stuff out there about the overreaching of front offices into the clubhouse. He's very open about it being the reason he doesn't manage anymore. If the front office isn't going to change their directives to the manager, then who the manager is doesn't mean much. If they are going to continue to build rosters designed to have players move around a lot and platoon like crazy then we're just going to see the same thing. It all starts at the top. Firing Rocco had to happen. No way you could explain away bringing him back next year. But it doesn't solve any core problems because they all start at the top.

I'd like Falvey replaced as well. I presume he had some influence over Baldelli's micromanaging, but I have no idea how much.

The one thing I can say for Falvey that I can't say for Baldelli, is that Falvey pivots and often. We go from control pitchers who can't miss bats, to flame throwers who are too wild. Then pivot to a pretty solid meld of the two approaches.

We go from Bomba Squad that strikes out too much, then to focusing on OBP. Then they try the Bomba Squad again with next to no success and immediately get low strikeout, high contact players. Offensively it hasn't worked, mostly because they can't develop their own hitters, but he does change it up.

If he can't or won't change the MLB development areas of the team, you're right, we're stuck back at square one, but I think there's a reasonable chance he understands this needs to change. 

[Blyleven2011]

34 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

Was thinking the exact same thing. Interesting though...I have relatives who are Pirates fans and their complaints about Shelton were similar to complaints about Rocco.....poor feel for the game....head scratching game decisions.... etc..

Seems like the perfect candidate falvey would choose  ....

The real fans of the twins finally won 1 out of 3 so far , i know God has nothing to do with baseball  but I thank him just the same ...

Next 2 the fans win are falvey's replacement and a new owner that actually likes baseball and wants to win ...

Fans want the glory days ,  , we want to win  ...

we should be a rejuvenated team in 2026 and play better all round fundamental baseball with a new manager and new coaches that will take the players and teach them a better way at the hardest level ...

we needed a new spark and if rocco gets another another job as a manager  , that team is insane to higher him ...

Im sorry but rocco is not a major league manager  , and now finally with his firing , I have been proven correct ....

What took so fr****n long , I'm sleeping well tonight and the off season is shaping up on its first day 

...

[LewFordLives]

44 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

Same line of thought but I much prefer Brian Dinkleman, and he has been great at developing players.

Not gonna happen, but they need someone like Doug Mientkiewicz to light a fire under these guys.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

I'd like Falvey replaced as well. I presume he had some influence over Baldelli's micromanaging, but I have no idea how much.

The one thing I can say for Falvey that I can't say for Baldelli, is that Falvey pivots and often. We go from control pitchers who can't miss bats, to flame throwers who are too wild. Then pivot to a pretty solid meld of the two approaches.

We go from Bomba Squad that strikes out too much, then to focusing on OBP. Then they try the Bomba Squad again with next to no success and immediately get low strikeout, high contact players. Offensively it hasn't worked, mostly because they can't develop their own hitters, but he does change it up.

If he can't or won't change the MLB development areas of the team, you're right, we're stuck back at square one, but I think there's a reasonable chance he understands this needs to change. 

I hope you're right. I just see no reason to believe it. In order to believe that you have to believe he disagreed with things Rocco did and only fired him because he thought it was the right move and Rocco was bad at his job. Nothing he's ever said or done before this move has ever suggested that in the least.

If Rocco had been fired early in the season when they got off to a rough start after the collapse last year I would feel differently. This doesn't read, to me, as a move made because Falvey learned a lesson and really thought an overhaul of clubhouse leadership and in game strategy needed to happen. It reads, to me, as the last scapegoat before Falvey so he had no choice but to pull the trigger. If Falvey was doing this because he thought a pivot was necessary, I would have expected that before the season turned into the post-deadline joke it became. It, in my opinion, would've came while the move still could've had an impact on the season.

[Parfigliano]

Should have happened at the end of last year but better late then never.

Now do Falvey.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

The Pohlads also are at fault.

But Baldelli couldn't and wouldn't develop young players. And if you're going to roll with a rebuild and young players, you have to get a manager who is willing and able to use them in any and every situation Not someone who constantly micro manages them so they never learn when and how to trust their own natural athletic abilities.

The MANAGER doesn’t “develop young players” ……… I live in Cincinnati and Francona isn’t/hasn’t developed anyone here. They send guys up & down continually to find “somebody” to contribute. Outside of DeLaCruz (about 38 & half of last year) they don’t steal bases. They do have 3-4 guys that can actually bunt - developed well before they arrived at MLB level. ……….”systems” and handfuls of coaches develop talent through the minors. Guys don’t “develop” at the MLB level other than mental fortitude and physical toughness to handle the grind. Sure, they improve but they had to already be successful to get up through 3-4 levels in MiLB over 2-4 years.

Managers build a team culture and try to establish an attitude he wants players to take on, in general

I don’t disagree that a fresh voice from the Manager won’t be a positive going forward …., I don’t believe much of the Twin’s issues over the past 2 years were heavily Baldelli’s issue…. players play & his were hurt or mediocre in many cases!

Skip Schumacher is going to get paid by someone.

[Hubie29]

I got thumbs down on the manager needing to know baseball strategy. That's a problem!

[stringer bell]

I think Baldelli is a pretty good baseball man, but as many have said here, since he has been at the helm he hasn't had enough players make the next step in their development. Since the 100-win team in 2019, there haven't been enough guys that should have been written in the lineup probably in the same place in the batting order.

I'm neutral on criticisms of strategy, but I know that more talent means that managers can take gambles to try to cut off one run or play for a big inning or steal bases. I also don't believe the talent has fit together well for the last several years. I actually thought Rocco did a decent job handling his bullpen and was able to maximize availability without overuse.

The next manager will have a lot of deficiencies to address and depending on what happens to the few who are making significant money, the team might be in a total rebuild. I'll pull for the next manager to be successful, and by successful that means making it to postseason and having a chance to win in October. He'll need better help than Baldelli received from the front office since 2020.

[LewFordLives]

2 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

I got thumbs down on the manager needing to know baseball strategy. That's a problem!

You can't please everyone.  But yeah, one would think that's a prerequisite.

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

I got thumbs down on the manager needing to know baseball strategy. That's a problem!

I think it was the tone, not the statement. 

[JD-TWINS]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I hope you're right. I just see no reason to believe it. In order to believe that you have to believe he disagreed with things Rocco did and only fired him because he thought it was the right move and Rocco was bad at his job. Nothing he's ever said or done before this move has ever suggested that in the least.

If Rocco had been fired early in the season when they got off to a rough start after the collapse last year I would feel differently. This doesn't read, to me, as a move made because Falvey learned a lesson and really thought an overhaul of clubhouse leadership and in game strategy needed to happen. It reads, to me, as the last scapegoat before Falvey so he had no choice but to pull the trigger. If Falvey was doing this because he thought a pivot was necessary, I would have expected that before the season turned into the post-deadline joke it became. It, in my opinion, would've came while the move still could've had an impact on the season.

Do we think Dave Roberts doesn’t lean on analytics - nor the other 28 teams in MLB?

Get ready for more of the same from whoever takes over - it’s the new reality and has been and there ain’t no going back.

Roberts is successful because they have outstanding players. Do people here really think they know baseball better than Rocco and his staff. Do they think he wouldn’t win in 2/3 of the Clubhouses in the playoffs??

3-4 teams are in on smoke and mirrors and a couple got a lot of help from mediocre to terrible competitors down the stretch. Managers can matter, for sure! But they don’t win 85-95 games w/o good players - that perform to their norm levels!!!

 

[jkcarew]

39 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'm a bit shocked the owners are about to pay two managers at the same time and/or eat the buyout.  That's "Sailors on Shore Leave" kind of wild spending from the misers in charge

True.

Still, get ready for the assistant or minor league guy willing to take next to nothing for the first-time opportunity.

Guaranteed. Not that that never works. Let’s hope it does. It’s a bit of a crime if Falvey gets to do the choosing, though…regardless of the candidate pool.