Arm-ageddon: Twins Announce Injuries to Jhoan Durán, Anthony DeSclafani, Caleb Thielbar, Others

[Guest]

Duran had terrible numbers this spring. So many like to say spring training numbers don't matter, 'he was working on a new, super, secret pitch', but it turns out they do mean something. Same thins for Wallner.

The sky is falling, The Sky Is Falling. THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

 

[jkcarew]

Thielbar…not so sure he’s much different than a few of our other lefty reliever options.

Desclafani…as expected

Duran…as long as it’s done after 6 weeks

Canterino…disturbing

Zach Weiss…contrary to perceptions, the Twins do NOT always trade for pitchers whose arms are on the verge of exploding. Sometimes they sign them off waivers.

[Whitey333]

The Twins have injury issues?  What else is new?  I don't think even with all pitchers healthy that we aren't dominant in the pitching department.  Perhaps just slightly above average.  You mean the Twins traded for a pitcher Descalifini (?) That is injured?  Where have we heard that before?  A very familiar refrain.  The pitching will be tested early.  Duran injury is scary to some degree.  He's always thrown so hard.  He's Tommy John surgery just waiting to happen.

[Shaitan]

So much for the eternal optimism of opening day.

Yes, I get it. It is a clever headline. though misleading, since they aren't all arm injuries...

[DJL44]

Are there any insights into the current pecking order in the bullpen? Is Topa an option for late innings?

[Danchat]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

The Polanco trade was always a bad idea. Not surprised about Desclafani.

Duran is an awful loss.

 

DeScalfani was the third of four pieces of that trade, as Gonzalez and Topa were clearly the more value pieces of that trade. And how long do you think Polanco is going to last with his injury history?

And with the bullpen injuries I'm glad we have Topa who held up in high leverage situations last year, at least they have Jax/Stewart/Topa at the back end of the pen which isn't shabby.

[KirbyDome89]

25 minutes ago, Danchat said:

DeScalfani was the third of four pieces of that trade, as Gonzalez and Topa were clearly the more value pieces of that trade. And how long do you think Polanco is going to last with his injury history?

And with the bullpen injuries I'm glad we have Topa who held up in high leverage situations last year, at least they have Jax/Stewart/Topa at the back end of the pen which isn't shabby.

Topa has exactly one season of being a reliable high leverage reliever. Maybe he defies the odds and becomes a stud in his early 30s, but the jury is still out on his sophomore tour. How long is Brock Stewart going to be healthy this year? That trio doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies. 

I'll take 80ish games of a proven bat in the top half of a lineup over Topa. I didn't like the trade when it happened; losing DeSclafani (and burning $$ on him) makes it look worse. 

[KirbyDome89]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

Desclafani is definitely a bit disheartening, even if was expected he wouldn't be ready to go on Opening Day because this seems to be a bit more serious than a guy just working his way back from injury. While I don't expect to see any major drop off with varland taking his innings, I do have concerns about the rotation depth when delving into it so early. That said, with Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Paddack, and Varland at least we're not counting on a bunch of guys in their mid-to-late 30's? (on the other hand, Ober & Paddack have both had real injury troubles, and Ryan and Lopez haven't been entirely immune in their careers either....)

Assuming Paddack is healthy and productive all season (major assumptions) they'll still likely need 60+ innings allocated elsewhere just to round out his spot in the rotation. What's lurking behind Varland looks unappealing at best right now too. They better pray for a repeat of the SP health from last season from this point forward...

[Greglw3]

5 hours ago, CRF said:

If DeSclafani isn't headed for a TJ, I'd be absolutely shocked. I'd rather have Louie in that rota spot anyway. Not having Duran could hurt a lot...Jax and Stewart need to step up. 

FWIW, I’d go get Clevinger ASAP and move Varland to the pen for late inning duties where he proved last year, he’s up to the task. Not 1 or even 2 players can fill Duran’s void IMO but I’d have a lot of confidence in Varland, added to Jax and Stewart.

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Danchat said:

DeScalfani was the third of four pieces of that trade, as Gonzalez and Topa were clearly the more value pieces of that trade. 

I keep reading this and I think to myself, how stupid do you think this front office is? They didn't trade Polanco for Topa and an A ball outfielder. 

They clearly targeted a starting pitcher in the Polanco trade. It was (and is) the glaring hole in the roster.

That they got a very iffy one, to which more needed to be added, doesn't change what Polanco was dealt for.

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, KirbyDome89 said:

the jury is still out on his sophomore tour. How long is Brock Stewart going to be healthy this year? That trio doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies. 

I think it's a solid group when it's in the context of the closer being hurt. Relievers are notoriously fickle and the wheels can fly off at any moment, but that is why I like how they added several this offseason.

45 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I keep reading this and I think to myself, how stupid do you think this front office is? They didn't trade Polanco for Topa and an A ball outfielder. 

Gonzalez and Topa were considered to be more valuable at the time of the trade, so yeah, they mostly did. You say that as if a top 100 prospect doesn't have any value... now I'd prefer if they would trade a prospect or two for a starter but it's not as if all value from the trade is gone because of the injury, like the Mahle trade.

46 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

That they got a very iffy one, to which more needed to be added, doesn't change what Polanco was dealt for.

The stupid part is that they didn't add any other starters with Gray and Maeda gone and they relied on an injury-prone DeScalfani to be in the rotation, but that's not necessarily a knock on the trade itself. More a knock on the overall strategy.

[Aggies7]

7 hours ago, #3Killer said:

Ryan has been fine this spring. He and Varland have been very effective. Alcala and Funderburk should fill in fine until Durán gets back. 

Duran is on another planet compared to those guys.

Sounds like 6ish weeks for recovery. Then figure the rehab/ramp up time probably needed for a guy who throws 104 in violent contortions…we probably won’t see him til nearly June. 1/3 of the season 

[mikelink45]

I still believe in closers and losing Duran for any extended period is really bad. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

Nate Snell to the Giants. 2/62 deal.

[DocBauer]

I'm NOT going to lead this in to a discussion about payroll, but I do have to wonder if the 1yr agreement was in place earlier...and not delayed due to court proceedings...would the Polanco trade have been different? I mean, it might have still been with Seattle. But maybe the Twins spent a little more $ than they were comfortable with and signed someone Iike Wacha?

I had HOPES for DeScalfini, but I never had trust. And that's part of the reason I've commented about adding an experienced, rebound veteran arm on a milb deal as additional insurance. Odorizzi seemed obvious, but he's gone now. Who else might be available on a milb deal to not feel pressured in to promoting SWR or Festa too early? Disco absolutely seems destined for a surgery he probably should have had last year.

I know the Duran injury is a big blow. But I'd rather have an oblique injury rather than something wrong with his arm. As long as he doesn't rush back, 4-6 weeks doesn't destroy the season.

Last I heard, Thielbar could throw at 100% but had trouble coming off the mound to field. If that's true, his IL stint is more about being able to perform completely and not re-injure himself. That could be as little as 2-4 weeks.

I have to object to the Canterino reporting. Unless I've missed something, the only pitcher suffering from a scaplia injury was Winder, which was reported a few weeks ago.

Have I missed something?

Honestly, while depth is suddenly a concern, I had more faith in Varland than DeScalfini in the long term. IMMEDIATE depth is the concern. The pen MIGHT have enough depth to cover Duran for 4-6 weeks. I sure hope that's the case!

I might be crazy...others have before, lol...but I've had this feeling that with the 2024 TV back in place, even to a lesser amount, that they were still allowing a little $ for an addition later on if needed. NOT a SURPRISE 1yr deal for Montgomery from old friend Boras, but another pen or rotation offer. Don't IMMEDIATELY cringe, but what if Cueto was brought in on a milb deal tomorrow? Or maybe Lorenzen? Not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

[TopGunn#22]

I'm just glad Duran's injury is not to his arm.  Jax and to some degree Stewart will have to step up.  Hopefully he's back in 6 weeks strong as ever.

I am actually fine with Varland stepping into "Disco's" spot, but I also wouldn't mind signing Clevinger (or dare I say it again...Bauer).  

Theilbar is no surprise at all.  He will have at least 3 other stints on the IL for various ailments and I'm actually quite pleased with that.  This should insure that Alcala and/or Funderburk break camp with the Twins.  I'm convinced both of them are a better option than Theilbar at this stage of their careers.

I drafted Duran for my Fantasy team and now I'm going to have to cut someone and pick up Jax.

 

 

[arby58]

18 hours ago, Linus said:

I was willing to keep an open mind on Disco but that whole deal is looking like a fiasco 

Desclafani was not the primary return for Polanco, and suggesting 'the whole deal is looking like a fiasco' during Spring Training is jumping the gun a whole lot. My guess is Topa will be relied on even more so now that Duran is down, and Gonzalez is generally considered one of the Twins' top five prospects.

This reminds me of fans who declared the Lopez trade last year a 'fiasco' when Arraez was hitting .400 and Lopez started off struggling a bit. Seemed to work out ok for the Twins.

[bighat]

17 hours ago, MN_ExPat said:

I understand the angst, but... DeSclafani is only 33 (almost 34).  That's a good bit away from 40.

Well now it looks like he won't see the field until he's 35. Put up a big fat zero for the Twins. 

[Otaknam]

18 hours ago, bighat said:

So with the fog clearing and the dust settling, is anyone else in complete disbelief in what the Twins got back in the Jorge Polanco trade? A washed up 40 year-old pitcher getting hit to the tune of a 5.89 ERA at the end of his career who can't even get on the field and a run-of-the-mill middle reliever? 

Please tell me the prospect the Twins picked up in the deal was a blue-chip can't-miss future every-day player. 

Because if not, I really have no idea why the Twins gave away a year of Jorge Polanco for absolutely nothing. 

Duran's injury is worrisome. The guy's out there throwing 104 MPH three nights a week I'm surprised his arm is still attached. It seems that a guy throwing that hard, consistently, just doesn't have a long shelf life this day and age. 

The Polanco trade was also about dumping a $10 million salary and having playing time for Julien and eventually Lee. Maybe that Polanco salary can be used to sign Lorenzen for a year.

[Linus]

1 hour ago, arby58 said:

Desclafani was not the primary return for Polanco, and suggesting 'the whole deal is looking like a fiasco' during Spring Training is jumping the gun a whole lot. My guess is Topa will be relied on even more so now that Duran is down, and Gonzalez is generally considered one of the Twins' top five prospects.

This reminds me of fans who declared the Lopez trade last year a 'fiasco' when Arraez was hitting .400 and Lopez started off struggling a bit. Seemed to work out ok for the Twins.

In an off season when they needed to add a starter he was the only starter obtained and he is likely to miss significant time or the whole season. If fiasco isn’t a word you like substitute fail. 

[bighat]

52 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

The Polanco trade was also about dumping a $10 million salary and having playing time for Julien and eventually Lee. Maybe that Polanco salary can be used to sign Lorenzen for a year.

Really? Because every one of the thousands of articles over the winter were titled "Twins seek MLB-ready contributors for Polanco" or "Twins want established pitcher in return for Polanco" - every single source was saying that. 

So the Twins went out and got DeSclafini, which was depressing, but many of us thought "we'll see, at least he's an MLB pitcher" but now he's done for the year and a everyone is now saying "It was about dumping salary"?!?!?!

Not to get on your case specifically, I'm just reading a lot of people who are all of a sudden pretending that the Twins were just trying to get rid of Polanco like he was Josh Donaldson or something. That is absolutely false. 

This was a bad trade at the time and it looks absolutely awful now. The Twins do not have the resources to keep trading for injured pitchers. 

[nicksaviking]

24 minutes ago, Linus said:

In an off season when they needed to add a starter he was the only starter obtained and he is likely to miss significant time or the whole season. If fiasco isn’t a word you like substitute fail. 

Whole heartedly agree they failed. I'm sure they tried to get an actual pitcher this year on the trade market but nope, couldn't convince anyone or wouldn't pull the trigger.*

I don't think DeSclafani was anything more than a the Mariners requirement for getting the prospect though. Had the Twins gotten one of the Mariners top five starting pitchers, the Twins would have promoted it, put the guy front and center in a news conference and threw a dance party like they did with Lopez last year when they tried to assuage the fans who were bummed about losing Arraez. They didn't do any of that, instead they basically just played a dirge for Polanco. They knew DeSclafani wasn't anything more than a lotto ticket salary dump.

*I don't know why, but I suddenly have a feeling the Twins end up trading a young hitter for an OK-but-not-great Angels pitcher. 

[Mike Sixel]

21 minutes ago, bighat said:

Really? Because every one of the thousands of articles over the winter were titled "Twins seek MLB-ready contributors for Polanco" or "Twins want established pitcher in return for Polanco" - every single source was saying that. 

So the Twins went out and got DeSclafini, which was depressing, but many of us thought "we'll see, at least he's an MLB pitcher" but now he's done for the year and a everyone is now saying "It was about dumping salary"?!?!?!

Not to get on your case specifically, I'm just reading a lot of people who are all of a sudden pretending that the Twins were just trying to get rid of Polanco like he was Josh Donaldson or something. That is absolutely false. 

This was a bad trade at the time and it looks absolutely awful now. The Twins do not have the resources to keep trading for injured pitchers. 

Not all of a sudden. Lots of people said it at the time of the trade. Lots. 

I hate they didn't add a real starter.... But that's a different topic. 

[Riverbrian]

Injuries happen every single month of every single year. Key players will be unavailable from time to time during the season. We don't know who, we don't when and we don't know how long but we know that key players will be unavailable from time to time during the season. 

Jordan Montgomery isn't going to show up and even if he does show up... he isn't going to make us injury free nor make himself injury free.  

21 Positions players played for us last year. 25 pitchers threw pitches for us last year. 46 players found their way on to the 26 man roster. 

Varland, SWR, Canterino, Headrick, Festa, Dobnak, Raya, Sands, Weiss, Bowman, Brigham, Balazovic, Duarte, Jensen, and Rodriquez and others... Any combination of these players plus others we haven't even thought of are going to be called to duty during the season. 

Setting a 5 man rotation, 3 back end bullpen guys and 9 starting position players with pretty left/right platoons is all nice and everything.

It doesn't last... it never lasts.  

If you are bummed out over these injuries... well... get comfortable with that emotion because more are coming. 

It's 162 games... Dig in Y'all.  

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, bighat said:

Well now it looks like he won't see the field until he's 35. Put up a big fat zero for the Twins. 

did I miss the announcement that DeSclafani is out for the year? I mean, maybe he will be, but until they actually slate him for surgery...

[bean5302]

19 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

...But he feels about 75 at this point.

Not as old as I felt at the gym last night... grumble grumble

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, bean5302 said:

Not as old as I felt at the gym last night... grumble grumble

At least you went.....

[bighat]

59 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

did I miss the announcement that DeSclafani is out for the year? I mean, maybe he will be, but until they actually slate him for surgery...

 

[Jeff K]

21 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Really? I thought we got a solid back end reliever with a 2.61 ERA and 1.145 WHIP in 2023 and a borderline Top 100 prospect, along with an oft injured starting pitcher and an A ball flier, in return for one year of an oft injured bat first, poor fielding second baseman with a consistent 115 OPS+? Let's see, Topa's WAR last year - 1.6. Polanco's WAR last year - 2.0. Add in the top 100 prospect and it seems like a fair deal to me. Sure, Topa may be a one year wonder and Polanco may have a career renaissance at age 30 plus. Gonzalez is a top 100 prospect on some lists and not on others -  BA: NR | MLB: 79 | ATH: 96 | BP: NR, and sure, he may be in the Show in 2 years or working at McDonalds. 

I love me some Jorge Polanco but I think you guys have to recognize that his career arc from here is likely down, not up, and that's assuming he's healthy enough to play more than 100 games. He's been a great Twin in the past. Not so likely in the future. He was expendable with the breakout year from Julien and the development of Lee.  Why didn't we get a mid rotation established starter or a high upside young starter for Polanco? Because he isn't worth it at this stage of his career. I hope Jorge has a great season and makes the All Star team. Hell, I hope he plays 120 games. But let's not overrate who he is and what he's worth. And let's not use him to take pot shots at the front office for making a trade from surplus to get the necessary bullpen help and a real upside prospect.  

Nailed it.  I love Jorge as well, but he could only play 2nd base with diminishing returns.  As a competitive AND business decision, it was time to move on from Jorge.

[arby58]

10 hours ago, Linus said:

In an off season when they needed to add a starter he was the only starter obtained and he is likely to miss significant time or the whole season. If fiasco isn’t a word you like substitute fail. 

Maybe wait to see how the trade works out, at least until they actually start playing real games?  The 'needed to add a starter' relies on tunnel vision about how a team roster can be made up to win. They went deeper on relief pitchers, and teams with really good relief pitching can win a lot of games. It still feels like they have at least 5 decent starting pitchers - more than a lot of teams that are considered contenders.