Staking their Claims

[Seth Stohs]

News broke on Tuesday when Jeff Passan pointed out that several veteran impending free agents on the Los Angeles Angels roster had been placed on waivers. Others throughout the league have been made available via the waiver wire as well. Should the Twins place some claims? 

Image courtesy of Gary A. Vasquez-USA TODAY Sports

The baseball world appeared shocked to learn that the LA Angels placed several of their veteran players - several acquired at the trade deadline - on waivers. A quick look at a few readily available bits of information show why it makes sense for them to do it. In addition, many other non-contenders have placed veterans on waivers too. 

Of course, this is a Minnesota Twins-related site, so the question has to be "Should the Twins place a claim on any of these players?" 

The trade deadline this year was on August 1st. The Angels had a decision to make. Make a push in Shohei Ohtani's final season under contract, or trade him. They, almost inexplicably decided to not only not trade Ohtani, but they became buyers. 

August is now coming to an end. The Angels are now 63-70, 12 games behind the Mariners, Rangers and Astros in the AL West and nearly the same out of a Wild Card spot. Mike Trout was hurt again and place on the IL... again. And worse, Ohtani now has a torn UCL which will likely require him to have a second Tommy John surgery. 

So, according to Jeff Passan, the Angels placed veteran starter Lucas Giolito, relievers Reynaldo Rodriguez and Matt Moore, and outfielders Hunter Renfroe and Randall Grichuk on waivers. At about the same time, the Yankees placed center fielder Harrison Bader on waivers. It is likely that many players whose availability hasn't been leaked publicly are also on the waiver wire. 

 Those teams are completely out of contention. While many want to spin it as salary relief, and it most certainly is, I consider it a pretty classy move by those teams. While players can no longer be traded after the one trade deadline, players can be claimed. And, if a player is on an organization's roster before September 1st, that player is eligible to be on their new team's playoff roster. 

By placing players on the roster on Tuesday, the waiver timetable means that they will be rewarded to their team winning the claim before the September 1st deadline. So, the Angels can save $1.7 million if someone claims Lucas Giolito. But Giolito can suddenly find himself back in a pennant race. The team that wins the claim gets to add Giolito to their roster. It's kind of a win-win-win for everyone. 

The waiver order starts with the worse overall team in baseball. If they don't claim him, the team with the second-worst record can win the claim, and so on. Of course, these claims are done blindly, not knowing which other organizations have claimed players. MLB will let the teams know who 'wins' the claims. 

The Question
So, that brings us back to the question from earlier. Should the Twins be active participants in claiming the players now available? 

The Answer
The short answer is, of course, yes. The slightly longer answer is Absolutely Yes. 

But it isn't that easy. The team shouldn't just claim everyone. If they win the claim, that player jumps onto the team's 40-man roster which necessitates other moves. The Twins still have guys that could go on the 60-Day Injured List. And yes, there are some players that could be DFAd.  

What are the Twins needs? 
This really hasn't changed since the trade deadline four weeks ago. At that time, the Twins needed a right-handed hitting outfield bat, and bullpen help. 

They did claim Jordan Luplow on waivers a couple of weeks ago, and he has done a solid job for the Twins in his platoon role. But would Hunter Renfroe or Randall Grichuk be an improvement over Luplow? Certainly. Renfroe would cost around $2.0 million the rest of the season, and Grichuk would be closer to $1.7 million. Add Harrison Bader to that conversation as he is able to play center field well which may matter, depending on how Buxton responds to playing out there in his rehab starting tonight. 

And, the bullpen... it was a need a month ago, and it's an even bigger need now. While Emilio Pagan and Caleb Thielbar have been good, and Jhoan Duran remains strong, Griffin Jax has struggled in August. The young guys filling three or more spots at the back of the bullpen have had ups and downs. Jordan Balazovic looked good for awhile, but he really struggled and was eventually sent down. Josh Winder has had a tough year, but his two most recent outings have been three scoreless innings each. Cole Sands has been fine, but they haven't found a lot of situations for him. Jovani Moran walked his way over to St. Paul, and Kody Funderburk did a very nice job in his major-league debut this week. 

But there is no question that adding Reynaldo Lopez (about $600,000 remaining) or Matt Moore (around $1,200,000 remaining), or even Jose Cisnero (around $400,000 remaining), should improve that bullpen depth. I mean, if they wanted, they could claim Lucas Giolito (around $1.7 million remaining) and either have him start or see what he is capable of working one or two innings a couple of times a week. That's the role we have been envisioning for Louie Varland, right? 

Summary
At least, in theory, the Twins roster will soon add Willi Castro, Alex Kirilloff and Byron Buxton. Bailey Ober will certainly come back up. Players like Trevor Larnach and Austin Martin are in St. Paul. The roster will be strengthened, but the Twins also have a unique opportunity to add contributors to their roster at this time, players who could fill roles that, even with the returning players, would fit the team's needs. 

In addition, the Twins have one of the lowest winning percentages among playoff teams and teams competing for wild card spots. They would presumably have their pick of players. 

This is a legitimate opportunity to make a couple of significant improvements to the roster at a time when other contenders can't counter with a trade. 

Matt Trueblood has a couple of articles worth reading on the Angels situation: 
1.) He ranks the Angels pitching options according to how much they make sense for the Brewers, but some of the same logic could be used for the Twins too. 
2.) He thinks that the Cubs should just claim all of the waived Angels, but that there is one that stands out as a prize for them. Would the same pitcher rank atop the Twins wish list? 

What would I do? 
First, how cool would it be to actually be able to make these decisions... and how much stress would it be to get it right? 

However, I think the Twins should claim at least two relievers. Reynaldo Lopez, Jose Cisnero would make the big league bullpen deeper. Matt Moore would give the team a second veteran lefty in the bullpen.

I also think they should decide on one of the three outfielders. Grichuk and Bader can play center field. Bader's got youth on his side among the group. Renfroe certainly fits the Twins mold with huge power and the ability to swing and miss a lot. 

I think they should put in claims for all three of those relievers and hope they wind up with two of them, any two. The Twins should place a claim on one of the right-handed hitting outfielders, whoever ranks highest on their list, and hope. 

What would you do? 
Your turn. How active do you think the Twins should be in placing waiver claims these next days? 

 

 

View full article

[Alex Wilde]

You might as well claim every single one of them and then figure out what happens from there. Do not pick and choose because you might be left with nothing at the end of the day. The obvious goal would be to get one additional BP arm and a right-handed corner OF to hit in the middle of the order against lefties.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

They should make 3-4 claims. 

1.Grichuk or Renfrow or Bader for Luplow.  However, whoever you pick you better make sure you get the claim.  

2. The 3 relievers, you make claims on all 3 realizing you will likely only get 1, 2 or never having a chance at any of them.  The issue is the same philosophy should be taken by the marlins unless they are willing to throw in the towel.   

Unless things break for the Twins I only see 1 player added possibly 2.   

[Cap'n Piranha]

Couldn't agree more on the relievers--makes way too much sense, especially Lopez.

Hard pass on the position players, as I don't see a space for any of them.  Jeffers, Vazquez, Kiriloff, Julien, Polanco, Correa, Farmer, Lewis, Wallner, Kepler, Buxton, Castro, and Solano are pretty clearly the 13 players the Twins would roster with full health.  Unless the Twins don't think Buxton/Kiriloff/Castro will be available the rest of the year, there's no need for any of the aforementioned players on waivers (especially because I'd rather see Martin or Lee to get a sense to their readiness).

[SteveLV]

All 3 relievers, please.  Hope to get one of them.  Really like Moore.

[Baumer67]

I think the Twins should try to add Giolito for Maeda, Lopez in the place that Jax is pitching in right now,  and also I would like them to add Moore.  I think you could move Maeda to relief, move Jax down to long relief in place of Sands or Winder.  I think we could have a bullpen of Duran, Thielbar, Pagan, Lopez, Moore, Maeda, Funderburk, and Winder.  Hopefully Stewart comes back in early September and that would make a pretty good bullpen.  In addition, I think Bader in place of Luplow would be good because of his centerfield ability.  I'm sure we won't get all of these guys but it would be nice.

[Eris]

Interesting article, but I am confused. This write up was written as if these are all irrevocable waivers. Does this mean that the revocable waivers is a thing of the past. If someone clears waivers they can not be traded as the trade deadline was Aug 1. Thank you for clarifying. 

[weitz41]

Any or all of the relievers makes a lot of sense. I think there's 1-2 players you could send down and not have to worry about losing them. I'm not really sure on that though. If it requires getting someone off the 40-man roster, then its sketchy for a month of playing time. Maybe 5-8 appearances for years of control on let's say Moran. Not sure that makes sense.

I read today Paddack is about to start a rehab assignment and Steward may be back as well. Just other things to consider.

None of the bats really excite me. Don't get me wrong they may be an upgrade to a degree, but with so many position players either on their way back or deserving of a cup of coffee it seems like it would compound the roster crunch.

And of course, to beat the dead horse one more time.... Sure, Gallo could go, without knowing if or when Kirilloff will be back? Knowing if Buxton can hold up in the OF? Is Kepler going to continue to play well? I may not like it, but right now he provides needed depth in uncertain areas. 

[Tiantwindup]

Key question, Seth. If Twins put in claims on, say, 6 players and get every one of them, do they have to add all 6 to the 40-man (and thus remove some solid players from the 40-man) or can they pick, say, there 3 favorites to keep and put the other 3 on waivers? 

[Dave Borton]

Quote

Of course, these claims are done blindly

Thx, didn't realize that piece of the puzzle. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

10 minutes ago, Eris said:

Interesting article, but I am confused. This write up was written as if these are all irrevocable waivers. Does this mean that the revocable waivers is a thing of the past. If someone clears waivers they can not be traded as the trade deadline was Aug 1. Thank you for clarifying. 

Correct, trade assignment waivers have been gone since 2019. No such thing as an August trade anymore.

AZPhil of The Cub Reporter has a great MLB Roster Rule resource.

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/mlb-roster-rules-presented-arizona-phil-22

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

8 minutes ago, Tiantwindup said:

Key question, Seth. If Twins put in claims on, say, 6 players and get every one of them, do they have to add all 6 to the 40-man (and thus remove some solid players from the 40-man) or can they pick, say, there 3 favorites to keep and put the other 3 on waivers? 

You make the claims you have to make the corresponding move.  Too me the trickiest part is the outfielders.  You should just pick 1 because you don't want to end with 2 of them.  As to the 40 man,  there is ample maneuverability from the IL to just removing one of the underperforming players off the 40 man.   As to the relievers if you think 2-3 are better than the bottom of your reliever corps you make the claims and see how the chips fall.  

[DJL44]

I'm not sure which players would actually get past both Miami and Cincinnati

 

[mickster]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

You make the claims you have to make the corresponding move.  Too me the trickiest part is the outfielders.  You should just pick 1 because you don't want to end with 2 of them.  As to the 40 man,  there is ample maneuverability from the IL to just removing one of the underperforming players off the 40 man.   As to the relievers if you think 2-3 are better than the bottom of your reliever corps you make the claims and see how the chips fall.  

I would claim both Renfroe and Grichuk.   Luplow and Gallo would then go and we have an upgrade.   Moore is the othe one that does interest me.    Maybe Clevenger over Kuechel as well.

[Vanimal46]

Matt Moore is my top choice. And I’m sure it’s 29 other teams’ top choice. Everyone can use an effective lefty in the pen. I’d place claims on all 3 relievers and pass on the OF players. 

[DJL44]

How pissed are Twins fans going to be if the Guardians get all the relievers?

[twins_89]

I'd make claims on Moore, Lopez, Giolito, and Grichuk. They look like they'd be upgrades over Funderburk, Sands, Keuchel, and Luplow. For spots on the 40-man, I'd move Miranda to the IL-60 and waive Luplow, Gallo, and maybe Keuchel.

[chpettit19]

Not an overly important thing by any means, but I disagree that this is a "classy move" by the orgs placing guys on waivers. It's 100% just a salary relief hope. The reason they put them on waivers now is that it significantly raises the likelihood that somebody claims them. This isn't the teams doing the players a solid by giving them a chance to get on a playoff roster, this is the teams increasing their odds of having their guys claimed. The Angels weren't going to waive them at the beginning of August because they just got a number of them and were trying to compete. Same with the Yankees. The deadline for playoff eligibility just created a sense of urgency for the other teams to put in claims now that these teams are out of contention. If the guys weren't playoff eligible you'd significantly lower the chances that they're claimed, and you get salary relief. The Angels don't care if Giolito gets on a playoff roster, they just care that he gets off their payroll. And that's why the made the moves yesterday instead of today.

[DJL44]

11 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I'm not sure which players would actually get past both Miami and Cincinnati

Expanding on that, the Marlins are currently using Jorge Lopez and don't really have a 5th starter but they do have 3 decent lefties in the bullpen. Reynaldo Lopez will not get past them.

The Reds wanted Giolito at the deadline and would probably be glad to dump Ben Lively from the rotation. Their bullpen has been decent but they could really use a lefty. Moore will not get past here. Their OF is very lefthanded and they could upgrade on Stuart Fairchild as the RH platoon bat. Grichuk is a natural fit here, especially since I think some of his salary is paid by the Rockies.

The Guardians might claim some players just to keep them off the Twins. They're not completely out of it yet.

The Twins are going to be left with Renfroe, Cisnero and Carrasco to pick from. No, thanks.

[Seth Stohs]

27 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

How pissed are Twins fans going to be if the Guardians get all the relievers?

I was just going to write this... The Guardians can certainly block any players they don't want going to the Twins... 

[Shaitan]

13 minutes ago, Seth Stohs said:

I was just going to write this... The Guardians can certainly block any players they don't want going to the Twins... 

But will they want to pay them? CLE isn't exactly known for adding payroll in-season.

[chpettit19]

43 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

How pissed are Twins fans going to be if the Guardians get all the relievers?

Less pissed than if somebody above us in the standings gets them...

[DJL44]

16 minutes ago, Seth Stohs said:

The Guardians can certainly block any players they don't want going to the Twins... 

Worst case scenario they decide to spend $3M and get all of them. They could add 5-6 players and really give the Twins fits. Fortunately I think their ownership is too cheap to make that move.

[DJL44]

BTW - why isn't Gallo on this list? Worst case he passes through and they keep him on the roster. Best case they dump him on a different playoff team and he hurts their offense as much as he hurts the Twins.

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Correct, trade assignment waivers have been gone since 2019. No such thing as an August trade anymore.

AZPhil of The Cub Reporter has a great MLB Roster Rule resource.

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/mlb-roster-rules-presented-arizona-phil-22

Very interested to see what they get, I'd put in claims for all the relievers and maybe just one bat.  Not sure how the order works but please don't end up with a bat and not a reliever if they are still available.

What I'm really curious about is how much of this was know to be coming throughout the league and how it played into trade deadline decisions.  Now with the smaller September roster teams can't just hide these players, they need to move on if they want to see the kids play.  It would make sense to me that front offices are looking around the league for likely cuts and anticipating who has to move someone. 

This may be a new annual tradition replacing waiver trades.  It would make the trade deadline cost benefit a little different as well.  What was the quote from Falvey?  Something like "we had a lot of things going but ultimately the costs just weren't right?"  What if they knew cheaper stuff was going to be available?

If they don't do anything here, I'll pull out what little back hair I have left.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

Matt Moore is my top choice. And I’m sure it’s 29 other teams’ top choice. Everyone can use an effective lefty in the pen. I’d place claims on all 3 relievers and pass on the OF players. 

This. They can't claim and drop immediately, which they'll do when Buxton, Castro, AK are back on the OFers.....Also, Martin is right there.....I have no idea why anyone wants to claim mediocre OFs right now. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

29 minutes ago, Shaitan said:

But will they want to pay them? CLE isn't exactly known for adding payroll in-season.

Yeah, not at all worried about CLE adding impending FAs just to spite the Twins.  They don't want to spend, and they have clearly decided to give up on this season.

[Cap'n Piranha]

Can anyone tell me if a team can only claim one player at a time?  That is--if OAK wanted to, could they claim all these players, and get all of them?  Or once they get awarded the claim on their first choice, do they drop to 30th for their second player?

[KirbyDome89]

32 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Fortunately I think their ownership is too cheap to make that move.

Yep, they're not going to spend money to spite the Twins after essentially ceding the division a month ago. Hell, I doubt they'd spend the money if they were still in the race. 

[mikelink45]

I just do not see these players making it to the Twins.  At least not the players we might want to have.