Staking their Claims

[mikelink45]

2 hours ago, Minny505 said:

Do you expect non-playoff contenders to claim any of these players?

If not, the Twins are in a prime position to claim pretty much whoever they want due to their record. Only the Reds have a worse record of all current contenders.

I expect wild card and bubble teams to claim them and if I were Cleveland I would block the Twins with small amounts left on the contracts for the year and then they are gone.  There are 15 teams that would need to pass for someone to get to us.

[LA Vikes Fan]

21 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

You don't understand the rules. The team with the worst record always has priority.

So say, the Reds, DBacks. Giants, or the Marlins - all wild card contending teams with priority over the Twins going into today's action - could take all of the waived players should they want to do so? Good thing we blew today's game then. If that's the case, and I believe you, we have very little chance of getting any of the quality pitchers like Moore or even Lopez. Cincy or SF will take the pitchers, Miami or AZ anyone they think can hit. All or at least 3 of the 4 are likely to choose before the Twins. Add in Cleveland making claims to block players going to the Twins, and it seems like there will only be leftovers when our priority comes up. I think there's only 5 max that are worth our time -  Moore for sure, and then maaaybe Lopez, Clevinger, Bader, and Renfroe. Seems like we may get shut out on all those. Oh well, what could have been  . . .

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

I expect wild card and bubble teams to claim them and if I were Cleveland I would block the Twins with small amounts left on the contracts for the year and then they are gone.  There are 15 teams that would need to pass for someone to get to us.

and 40 man roster spots....

[KirbyDome89]

16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It's the rules. I don't get how playing by the rules is wrong/bad/evil somehow. 

Why should LAA keep those guys? It is the 100% right move by them. 

I never said it was evil, I said I don't like it.

Matt Moore isn't some fringe guy that hasn't been able to carve out an active roster spot, or a veteran player on the decline. Dumping legit MLB players on the waiver wire to save yourself from paying out the final month of contracts feels exploitative. YMMV but I'd be annoyed if teams chasing me were getting handouts. 

Some team, for the same cost as a ST flier, is going to scoop him, and potentially use him in a postseason game. If the Twins get him it'll be high fives all around. If he's the lefty out of the pen that's shutting them down, I doubt many people will be thrilled with what the Angels did. 

[twins_89]

From a post on mlbtraderumors, it sounds like the Twins loss today guarantees they will be ahead of Boston and Arizona in the waiver claim list. So basically, the only teams still in the playoff hunt that would be ahead of Minnesota are the Marlins and the Reds (and the Padres, though they have virtually no chance at the postseason).

[old nurse]

Well, at this point it would be if the Reds or Marlins wanted a player as it would seem unlikely a non playoff contending team would put in a claim.  Passing up a chance for a shutdown pullpen should b a no brained. 

Renfroe and Grichuck have had great careers but not great years.  They would be better than Luplow 

[USAFChief]

Add me to the list of people thinking that dumping players into a pennant chase is unsportsmanlike at best, unethical at worst. 

This is crap. Regardless if the Twins end up with Moore or Renfroe. 

[PatPfund]

To make space on the 40 Man: Put Miranda on 60 day, let him and Gordon work at St Paul, but otherwise heal for next year. Waive Celestino as needed. Waive Luplow. Release Joey Gallo as needed, release Floro as needed

Clear MLB roster for returns/claims (beyond releases above): option Sands, option Funderburk as needed, option Winder as needed.

Activate: Castro when ready, Kirilloff when ready, Buxton when ready, maybe Alcala or maybe he works in St Paul and readies for next year if we get all three pitchers.

Claim Giolito, Rodriquez, Cisnero

I wouldn’t claim an offensive player since we have RH bats Castro and Buxton coming back, Lewis, Solano, Polanco, Jeffers, Vasquez, and Farmer along with Correa on the MLB team now.

[Riverbrian]

I know a million dollars doesn't mean what it once did.  

However... I do feel like I have to remind some folks that a million dollars is still... you know... an actual million dollars. 

It's one dollar more than $999,999

The thought that a non-contending team is going to just drop a million dollars into the toilet just to keep a Matt Moore from landing on a contending team that just happens to be a rival makes no sense. 

Especially when they don't know that the rival team that they are trying to punish with this expensive practical joke is actually going to get that player. 

There's a lot to digest here and a lot to consider and it's certainly going to be interesting and educational to watch unfold but I'm not really sure how the thought of a team wasting a million dollars has any legs at all.  

[beckmt]

I would claim Moore and Lopez.  Doubt we will get either, but those are the only upgrades I see.  We have to make spots for Kirloff, Buxton and maybe a pitcher or two. I think Buxton and Kirloff would be enough to stop claiming an outfielder, we certainly can use more relief, so we shall see.

[singlesoverwalks]

Based on their trade deadline behavior, I'm guessing they have a moratorium on adding salary. No claims.

[Doctor Wu]

All this excitement and speculation could very well end up turning into absolutely nothing for the Twins. Maybe, just maybe, a serviceable outfielder or pitcher will remain unclaimed by the time we have our chance, but I'm not getting my hopes up, or even very concerned at this point if we pick up someone or not. Hopefully, some of our rehabbing players return soon and are enough to ensure us of a decent playoff run. 

[kenneth frank]

If history repeats itself (and I believe it will), I'd bet the Twins end up with one player and probably not the one we'd want.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

The claims should have been processed already now just waiting for them to come out.  Rumors were Marlins were looking at 1 or both relievers.  Reds had been connected to Giolito before so that would make sense.   The hope would be one of the 2 relievers gets to Minnesota,  in reality I just don't see that happening.  Make an improvement over Luplow and move on most likely.  

[Whitey333]

Great article Seth.  So if a player goes through unclaimed is he back with the team that put him on waivers?  Is he a free agent?  Does the team then just release him?

[DJL44]

4 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Great article Seth.  So if a player goes through unclaimed is he back with the team that put him on waivers?  Is he a free agent?  Does the team then just release him?

All of those are possible. The team can keep or outright the player to the minors. The player can refuse the outright assignment if they have enough service time (these guys all have enough service time).

[tarheeltwinsfan]

19 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Not an overly important thing by any means, but I disagree that this is a "classy move" by the orgs placing guys on waivers. It's 100% just a salary relief hope. The reason they put them on waivers now is that it significantly raises the likelihood that somebody claims them. This isn't the teams doing the players a solid by giving them a chance to get on a playoff roster, this is the teams increasing their odds of having their guys claimed. The Angels weren't going to waive them at the beginning of August because they just got a number of them and were trying to compete. Same with the Yankees. The deadline for playoff eligibility just created a sense of urgency for the other teams to put in claims now that these teams are out of contention. If the guys weren't playoff eligible you'd significantly lower the chances that they're claimed, and you get salary relief. The Angels don't care if Giolito gets on a playoff roster, they just care that he gets off their payroll. And that's why the made the moves yesterday instead of today.

MLB teams are cold and calculating profit making organizations. The movers and shakers of each team make their decisions based on multiple factors, all of which are ultimately based on this question: "How will the bottom line of profits for this organization be affected by this particular move?" This is contrary to the bottom line for us fans, which is: "Will this particular move help my favorite team to win now and/or in the future?" Team owners' ultimate goals and team fans' ultimate goals are apples and oranges. I do understand that these goals overlap sometimes. For example, winning more games can be a sub-goal for the owners, only because winning usually results in increased profits for the owners. However, the ultimate goal of the owners remains increased profits.

[Jocko87]

2 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

MLB teams are cold and calculating profit making organizations. The movers and shakers of each team make their decisions based on multiple factors, all of which are ultimately based on this question: "How will the bottom line of profits for this organization be affected by this particular move?" This is contrary to the bottom line for us fans, which is: "Will this particular move help my favorite team to win now and/or in the future?" Team owners' ultimate goals and team fans' ultimate goals are apples and oranges. I do understand that these goals overlap sometimes. For example, winning more games can be a sub-goal for the owners, only because winning usually results in increased profits for the owners. However, the ultimate goal of the owners remains increased profits.

Obviously some are more profit motivated but as a blanket statement this doesn't work.  As this is a baseball forum I'll hold off on mentioning some examples of true "cold and calculating profit making organizations".  Baseball teams don't even sniff the list. 

There are a few owners where the team is the main business (Arizona Cardinals are the best example) but for the majority they are hobbies.  A hobby that has to support itself, but a hobby.  They don't think about money the way you and I do. 

As for the money of these waivers, a contending team could offset a good chuck of that million bucks with extra gate from a playoff run.  Not a large number either way if you are going for it.  On the other hand, a team like the Nats or the Cards could claim Giolitto and try to recruit him for a signing.  That might be worth 1-2 millions as well.

The money in these deals is not really a factor.  Any team out there that can fill a late season hole without losing a prospect would spend double if they could pick their guy. 

[mickster]

23 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Expanding on that, the Marlins are currently using Jorge Lopez and don't really have a 5th starter but they do have 3 decent lefties in the bullpen. Reynaldo Lopez will not get past them.

The Reds wanted Giolito at the deadline and would probably be glad to dump Ben Lively from the rotation. Their bullpen has been decent but they could really use a lefty. Moore will not get past here. Their OF is very lefthanded and they could upgrade on Stuart Fairchild as the RH platoon bat. Grichuk is a natural fit here, especially since I think some of his salary is paid by the Rockies.

The Guardians might claim some players just to keep them off the Twins. They're not completely out of it yet.

The Twins are going to be left with Renfroe, Cisnero and Carrasco to pick from. No, thanks.

Renfro would be an upgrade over Luplow

[gbg]

Gaurdians just grabbed Giolito and Lopez!

Reds got Bader.

 

Olney is reporting that "all available players" have been claimed.

Edited August 31, 2023 by gbg

[Alex Wilde]

22 hours ago, Minny505 said:

Red Sox and Dbacks are tied with the Twins. I'm not sure how that would work, but wins & losses today might break that anyway.

Marlins are out of it.

That leaves the Reds as the lone team that is ahead of the Twins as of right now.

And this isn't fantasy baseball. No team is putting in a claim just to spite those teams in contention. I would be shocked, absolutely flabbergasted, if any non-contending team (other than the Marlins) claimed any of the players that come with an expiring contract. 

Let me just say that this did not age that well...the Guardians did this to spite the Twins and give them a fighting chance at winning the division.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Alex Wilde said:

Let me just say that this did not age that well...the Guardians did this to spite the Twins and give them a fighting chance at winning the division.

no, they did not do this to spite the TWins. They did it to try to win the division. Seriously. Why would you think they'd flush money down the toilet to spite the twins, based on all their actions over the years?

[Shaitan]

23 hours ago, Shaitan said:

But will they want to pay them? CLE isn't exactly known for adding payroll in-season.

Oops.

[Minny505]

1 hour ago, Alex Wilde said:

Let me just say that this did not age that well...the Guardians did this to spite the Twins and give them a fighting chance at winning the division.

This is shockingly out of character for Guardians ownership to approve these contracts. 

That said, I don't think there is anything spiteful in what they did. I think they made a baseball decision with a last gasp effort to win the division.

[Alex Wilde]

19 minutes ago, Minny505 said:

This is shockingly out of character for Guardians ownership to approve these contracts. 

That said, I don't think there is anything spiteful in what they did. I think they made a baseball decision with a last gasp effort to win the division.

And I respect your opinion. Thank you for being civil my friend. This hurts so much more after the loss yesterday afternoon...

[tarheeltwinsfan]

3 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

Obviously some are more profit motivated but as a blanket statement this doesn't work.  As this is a baseball forum I'll hold off on mentioning some examples of true "cold and calculating profit making organizations".  Baseball teams don't even sniff the list. 

There are a few owners where the team is the main business (Arizona Cardinals are the best example) but for the majority they are hobbies.  A hobby that has to support itself, but a hobby.  They don't think about money the way you and I do. 

As for the money of these waivers, a contending team could offset a good chuck of that million bucks with extra gate from a playoff run.  Not a large number either way if you are going for it.  On the other hand, a team like the Nats or the Cards could claim Giolitto and try to recruit him for a signing.  That might be worth 1-2 millions as well.

The money in these deals is not really a factor.  Any team out there that can fill a late season hole without losing a prospect would spend double if they could pick their guy. 

Sorry, but we must agree to disagree on this one. 

[Minny505]

1 hour ago, Alex Wilde said:

And I respect your opinion. Thank you for being civil my friend. This hurts so much more after the loss yesterday afternoon...

Agreed. I expected the Guards to greg Giolitto as they have stated all their rookie pitchers are on strict innings limits. 

But I would not be surprised if they didn't claim the RPs until after the game yesterday, which was the slight crack in the door they needed to make a mad dash for daylight.