Where Do the Twins Fit All of the Youth

[LewFordLives]

Julien has been a revelation, but let's not jump the gun. Once the calendar turned to August his bat cooled off. His overall K rate is also troubling. The league may be figuring him out. The question is, can he make the necessary adjustments?  Remember last year when everyone was wondering how they were going to accommodate Miranda?

The situation will sort itself out. There will be injuries and performance issues.

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Feel bad for Miranda as well but he’s not even a thought for me as the Twins go forward. Even in ‘24.

Lee isn’t ready for this year and we don’t have roster space.

14 games til September roster expansion…….need Lewis up today…….Castro has had back problems so he seems a candidate to go retroactive to the 10 day IL……then available any time between 21st & 31st of August.

Current 13:

2 Catchers

Taylor - Kepler - Wallner - Luplow

Farmer - Solano - CC - Lewis - Julien - Polanco - Gallo

……………………….

Castro - Luplow - Polanco …….one of them has to go off 26 man. Castro can be optioned until September 1 but I think IL gives team more short term flexibility.

Who are the 15 guys with bats in September? We have 16 guys in the mix. 13 guys above plus Castro - Kirilloff - Buxton.

Gallo definitely gone by October 2 unless somehow he shows some hot streak. 14 bats in playoffs as we only need 4 starting pitchers.

The 15 in September is intriguing……may just be settled by injuries?

I'll be pretty surprised if they go 15 bats in September with a clearly tiring pitching staff. Especially if they're able to give themselves a big cushion early in the month. Resting some arms, and getting them lined up for the playoffs, would be a lot easier with 14 arms.

[Beast]

Yep, this is a huge problem.  Look at that loaded position player group on the 26 man.  Willy Castro, Donovan Solano, Kyle Farmer, Joey Gallo, Michael Taylor, Jordan Luplow, overcooked Jorge Polanco and Christian Vasquez….not to mention the guys set to walk like Kepler….how are we ever going to find ABs for top prospects with such a dynamic group of studs?!  We just may have to donate players to a less fortunate team to clear out some of these all-time greats.

We currently have 3 position players on the active roster that I could care to keep.  Jeffers, Correa, Wallner.  Buxton, Lewis, and Alex K. can’t stay on the field and never will.  We have 1 position player prospect in the top 100 that’s even remotely close to the majors, and he’s probably got another year.  It’s absurd to look at this team, the active roster vs IL, recent performance, history, etc. and think we’re fresh out of space for talent.

It can be argued team has the worst roster, and maybe even farm system, from AA up, of any team near .500 or better in the MLB.  We have more roster space than we know what to do with.

[Patzky]

Lewis up, Willi to the IL. It's official now.

[RpR]

2 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

The guy I feel bad for is Miranda.  He looked so promising last year and I had high hopes he was one of our key future pieces.  Now I do not know what they do with him.  If there isn't even room on the roster (this year or next) for him to showcase his talents (assuming he still has them) then how on earth do we even get value if we decide to trade him?  Basically he needs one or two injuries to open a hole for him to reemerge.

He is just another of the Twins Org. rookies who came up, looked great and then the reality of their ability showed up.

He is not out of baseball but odds are he will join the Cave, Rooker brigade some where else.

Such is life.

[P Meyer]

2 hours ago, LewFordLives said:

Julien has been a revelation, but let's not jump the gun. Once the calendar turned to August his bat cooled off. His overall K rate is also troubling. The league may be figuring him out. The question is, can he make the necessary adjustments?  Remember last year when everyone was wondering how they were going to accommodate Miranda?

The situation will sort itself out. There will be injuries and performance issues.

I agree the situation will sort itself out. Long term success in MLB is hard. Correa, Marten, Julien, Lewis, Polanco, Lee, Buxton, and whomever else all playing so well they deserve an every day spot would be a great problem to have because most of those players are pretty affordable. 

[Jocko87]

2 hours ago, farmerguychris said:

Maybe just activate Buxton and put him in CF.  If the wheels fall off, then they fall off and you put in on IL until he can play the field again?  Putting him at DH isn't working and he's making too much to just sit on IL so more productive players can play.  Still can DFA Gallo and I'm sure we can find someone else struggling to open another roster spot - its not like we're scoring too many runs per game.

At some point they have to put him out there unless they are worried about a long term aggravation of the injury.  He has to play there for the stretch run and if he goes down again so be it. 

I haven't read all the way through the thread yet but has anyone mentioned where we would put CES, Steer, Urshela and Arraez yet?

[Trov]

4 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Other than Lewis, I don't see youth filling any more holes this year unless there are a significant number of injuries.  The INF will be Kirilloff / Julien / Lewis and Correa.  The OF will be Kepler / MAT / Wallner.  The September call up for position players will be Prato or Severino.

Next year .... Move Lewis to the OF and 3B is a competition between Lee / Miranda /Prato and Severino.  The OF is Kepler / Wallner / Lewis and Buxton.  Castro is the only certain bench player.  Farmer probably stays but there are 2-3 bench roles between Farmer / Gordon / Martin / Prato / Severino and maybe even Hellman.  

I think you need to read up on how the 40 man roster works.  With neither Prato or Severino on the 40 man roster, both would need to be put on the 40 man roster to be able to be called up in September.  This would mean either putting 2 people on the 60 day or DFA 2 guys.  I could see Gallo getting DFA, but unlikely anyone else.  In addition, if Gallo does get DFA it is unlikely for either of those guys.  

As for next year, maybe they get added, when other moves get done, but highly unlikely they get added this year. 

[Trov]

13 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

At some point they have to put him out there unless they are worried about a long term aggravation of the injury.  He has to play there for the stretch run and if he goes down again so be it. 

I haven't read all the way through the thread yet but has anyone mentioned where we would put CES, Steer, Urshela and Arraez yet?

I know the second paragraph is a bit of a joke, pointing out they where traded, in part due to all our depth.  However, to answer the question, if we still had them, Steer and CES would still be in minors and Urshela would be here instead of farmer or castro most likely.  Arraez would be playing 1B instead of Salano most likely.  

CES would be about 5th on the 3rd base depth chart.  He would be crushing in AAA but just as he has done in Reds he would be struggling so we would have sent him down. CES in SSS is putting up worse numbers than Gallo. 

[MTV]

I’m gonna pay more attention to next year, as the Youth will be even more developed and less bats (Gallo, Kep, I see Polanco getting traded) will clog the major-league roster. Our infield should be Kirilloff/Julien/Correa/Lewis, with Farmer/Castro as backups and Miranda/Lee in the Minors. If Lee performs well in Saint Paul, promote him and option Farmer. If he struggles or if someone gets injured, recall Farmer. See if Buxton can get some reps in a corner, Julien is better as a DH/1B. Long-term I see Kirilloff/Lewis/Correa/Lee on the dirt with Julien as DH, Buck in Left, Wallner in right, a CF on a 2-year deal until Rodriguez/Jenkins come up, Miranda and Prato/Schobel as a backup infielders, Martin/Helman as utility and Jeffers/Vazquez as catchers, maybe Camargo.

[Blyleven2011]

It's nice to have some talent ,,,

FO said at deadline we are playing with this lineup construction  , no trades were made , nobody was dfa'd  , we did add floro in a trade and Luplow was acquired on a waiver ... 

The vets are still playing and some shouldn't be , the FO isn't going to eat its words and will continue  this playoff bound fiasco  ....

[laloesch]

3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Cleveland has given the Twins the ultimate gift of being able to win the division while still experimenting with the young players to evaluate next year. 

The Twins need to take advantage of this. And not just with Julien/Wallner/Larnach/Kirilloff/Lee/Martin listed above. Get the chaff off of the 40-man, particularly those that will have no chance at making a playoff roster, and start trying out everyone who's been hitting well in AAA or AA ball this year.

I would be tickled pink if the Twins rewarded Brooks Lee with a fall callup.  That would be awesome.  Kid has been fantastic this season.

[TwinkieFan4life]

It's the Twins, just give it another week or two and I'm sure some spots in the lineup will open up due to new injuries.

[nicksaviking]

I still think whether they want to or not, this team needs to put Kiersey on the 40-man roster and give him MLB action to evaluate him, unless they are near certain the Buxton or Lewis will play CF next season.

The CF market is not great next year:

 

Unless they think they can get Bellinger, or think a 35-36-year-old Adam Duvall will cut it, they're going to be in the exact same situation as they are now with the position, which from my view, is not good.

[Blyleven2011]

4 hours ago, LewFordLives said:

 

The situation will sort itself out. There will be injuries and performance issues.

But there has been performances that have been the issue with the team and nothing has been done about it  , there still in lineups and FO is waiting for them to have a turn around season   ...

As for injuries , can't believe it is happening  again and again  ...

[BsuNemo]

2024

1st AK (Julien) 

2nd Lee (Julien) (Polo) 

3rd Lewis (Miranda) 

SS Correa (polo) 

Catcher Jeffers (Vasquez) 

RF Wallner

CF Buxton (Martin) 

LF Larnach

DH Julien (Buxton) (Polo) 

There are a few other interesting prospects as well. 

[tony&rodney]

I expect one or two guys to be traded. Based on how they have been used/treated (lineups, demotions, comments) and not understanding anything about whatever the Twins think, I would guess any  of Larnach, Julien, and Wallner are fair game. Maybe Kirilloff too. I do not expect either Lee or Lewis to be traded.

[twinstalker]

Kudos!  paraphrased:

"The Twins have hamstrung themselves with Buxton at DH."

 

[DocBauer]

It's a good problem to have for the remainder of this year, and going in to 2024, for sure.

I hate losing Castro temporarily, but I'm more interested in having him 100% for the playoffs and being able to utilize his speed, if not his defensive flexibility. And as I understand the rules, even if he doesn't come back until after September 1st, he's still elgible for the playoffs coming off the IL. For now, it's an unfortunate but easy way to add Lewis back. The Twins can, and have played a little with a 12 man staff instead of 13. A few off days recently, and coming up, should allow a little more rest for some arms. And when September hits, they'll add at least one more to the max of 14. (Can I yet again object to the ridiculous rule that doesn't allow expansion of the roster beyond 2 in order to reward players and give opportunity to prospects)? 

Gallo gets yet another reprieve...(heavy sigh).

Until Buxton comes back...and as I understand the rules IL players can be re-added to the playoff roster still...the player roster is basically set for now. Kirilloff being ready before September 1st complicates things and Gallo's clock might finally strike midnight. But he's here for now still, even though I'd love someone like Wiliams getting a shot at 1B, or veteran Stevenson getting a shot to see if he could assist Taylor in CF and replace the speed we are losing, hopefully temporarily, with Castro on the IL.

Short term, the player roster is mostly set. Lewis at 3B, Castro, Polanco, Julien, Gallo, Farmer, and Solano in the INF. Wallner, Taylor, Kepler and Luplow in the OF, with Gallo able to swing back out there. Catcher is obvious. That's 14 position players and 12 arms. It gets interesting when guys start to get healthy. And again, if I understand the rules, a player on the IL can still be added and be elgible for the post season even if not active by September 1st.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Right now, Polanco plays 3B/2B. Lewis plays 3B, and can cover SS with Farmer, who can also play 2B/3B. Solano plays 3 spots. Julien is 2B/DH for now. Hopefully Taylor stays healthy as there isn't a great option in CF, other than Kepler, Gallo, and Luplow being able to be put out there without embarrassing themselves. Kepler would seem to be the best option. Does Royce step up and say: "put me in coach. I'm ready to play"? (Fogerty's CENTERFIELD suddenly comes to mind, lol).

Gallo remains the obvious DFA sacrificial lamb if a crunch happens.

BUT AS TO THE FUTURE DILEMA:

The IDEAL is Lee, Correa, Lewis, and Kirilloff in the INF. Julien can play 2B and DH and HOPEFULLY play either, or both, of 1B and LF in an "adequate" fashion to provide roster/lineup flexibility.  But there's a really good chance DH might me tied up by Buxton on an at least MOSTLY possibility. And Lewis is so damn talented he could almost play anywhere. So the very next best option might be putting him in the OF at least part time, if not permanent. He could share CF with Buxton on a part time basis....while STILL playing the INF...OR, end up as the permanent CF. And he's got the ability to do so, and do it well. OR, he MIGHT end up in a corner spot if someone else could jump in to the CF discussion. One of Royce's best attributes is he could be a stud almost anywhere you want to play him. 

They WILL FIND a spot for Julien. He's just too talented of a hitter, whether it's 2B, DH, or some combination of those and MAYBE 1B or LF. And that's where we enter a bit of the unknown as to what the future holds because EVENTUALITY, Lee is going to be ready at some time in 2024.

I'm actually liking the idea of picking up Kepler's option for 2024. It's hard to believe that at 30yo he's FINALLY figured out how to adjust his approach at the plate to take natural ability and strength and actually square up his bat to ball approach. He's FINALLY hitting the ball HARD and seeing what can happen when he does so. Put Wallner in LF, and suddenly CF on a daily basis is the ONLY spot to figure out, other than some bench spots. I want to say Castro keeps doing what he's doing, maybe even grows and improves, and is a lock for his spot. But I do believe he will get competition from Helman and Prato, though he'd have an obvious leg up on his competition. 

But even if we pencil in Castro, AND a return of Farmer, which I expect, that leaves 1 spot left for a position player. Thank you Luplow for what you've done so far, and might yet do, but do the Twins settle for him as a RH OF bat? Do they actually trust in Martin or Celestino to begin 2024 as a real, ready contributor? Or do they make a trade or FA signing to FINALLY add a RH OF who has a solid track record who can hit LH pitching and not stink against RH arms? I'm betting on the latter, with Martin waiting in the wings and Celestino being a question mark as I believe he's out of options.

Notice l haven't mentioned Polanco at this point. I LOVE Polanco. He's been so very underrated and is a hell of a ballplayer. I believe the Twins pick up his relatively cheap option, even IF it's to trade him. But as good as Lee looks, despite his future potential, is he really ready from DAY ONE next year? Maybe. So you can move Polanco. I'm betting Lee begins the season at AAA and Polanco plays  2B/3B and SHOULD also be worked out at 1B considering his aging legs. 

I don't think the 2024 POSITION  player roster is too hard to figure out, save a RH bat that makes a difference. Lee is going to force his way to the roster eventually. Martin MIGHT do the same. Kepler and Polanco at least beginning the season is almost a given. UNFORTUNATELY, the elephant in the room is Buxton. Rest, surgery, a new advanced procedure, can he be at least a part-time CF? Because that affects the entire lineup,  and roster construction to some degree. And while I HOPE that can be what happens, I believe being a part-time CF is the best option to hope for. MY OPINION is Buxton needs to reach out to Molitor, Cruz, Thomas, and anyone else he values, and just accept his limitations at an all to early age to be a DH. He needs to find the mental and physical adjustment to stay engaged and "warm" as a hitter and not a position player any longer. I know it kills him to not playing CF and making a difference defensively. BUT, if he can make that conversion, he's got the ability to make a hell of a DH! 

NOBODY cared that Cruz was a DH only. I don't think anyone cared, looking back years ago, that Molitor was only a DH. IF Buxton could make that conversion, and be  the producer he was as a position player, or close to it, we'd have one of the best DH in all of MLB. Right now, he has looked lost. But IF....he takes a roster spot with production and the other 12 guys have the ability to make things happen.

[Fat Calvin]

17 hours ago, big dog said:

I think we should trade Spencer Steer and a couple of others for a durable starting pitcher.

Yeah let's throw in that guy with the hyphenated last name.

[TwinsDr2021]

14 hours ago, BsuNemo said:

2024

1st AK (Julien) 

2nd Lee (Julien) (Polo) 

3rd Lewis (Miranda) 

SS Correa (polo) 

Catcher Jeffers (Vasquez) 

RF Wallner

CF Buxton (Martin) 

LF Larnach

DH Julien (Buxton) (Polo) 

There are a few other interesting prospects as well. 

I will go out on a limb and say there is little to no chance of that being the Twins team next year. They are going to bring in a vet or two for depth like they did this year (or just keep Farmer and Castro)

That is way too many unknowns to start a season that you expect to compete for another division title.

[Major League Ready]

17 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I believe that it will be challenging to not lose some youth talent in the rule 5 draft this year.  Hopefully the FO took that into account when they decided not to trade any prospects that we possibly cannot protect for some help at the deadline.

They won't lose anyone significant prospects.   They have 7 expiring contracts (Gray / Maeda / Mahle / Pagán / Solano / Gallo / MAT).  They can also remove De León / Celestino and Henriquez.  Polanco is likely traded or option rejected.  Farmer and Gordon are also not locks.  That's a total of (13) 40-man spots assuming they keep Kepler.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

20 hours ago, LewFordLives said:

Julien has been a revelation, but let's not jump the gun. Once the calendar turned to August his bat cooled off. His overall K rate is also troubling. The league may be figuring him out. The question is, can he make the necessary adjustments?  Remember last year when everyone was wondering how they were going to accommodate Miranda?

The situation will sort itself out. There will be injuries and performance issues.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to think about Julien. His biggest issue is that his bat is the only reason you would want him playing on a regular basis. If he can't make some counter-adjustments, then he might not be the long-term option that some thought he would be.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Also, I'd be surprised if Kepler's NOT on the team next year. His salary isn't cost prohibitive at all, and unless the Twins want to go with Larnach as a starting outfielder - and I don't think they do, they'll probably pay more for a stopgap outfielder than they would be paying Kepler.

[Riverbrian]

17 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Polanco is likely traded or option rejected.   That's a total of (13) 40-man spots assuming they keep Kepler.

Amazing that a month of good Kepler can erase what he didn't do in 2021, 2022 and most of 2023. 

While a fairly consistent hitter can be erased by the bubbles of young talent. 

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Amazing that a month of good Kepler can erase what he didn't do in 2021, 2022 and most of 2023. 

While a fairly consistent hitter can be erased by the bubbles of young talent. 

IDK that they keep Kepler but they have rather limited OF depth next year and the free agent market is thin. The potential Polanco replacements are Lewis / Lee / Severino / Prato / Farmer / Castro / Gordon and Miranda.  Larnach is the only realistic replacement for Kepler.  I would move Kepler readily if the depth chart behind him was six deep as it is with Polanco.

You could move Wallner to RF and Castro / Gordon become options.  Not ideal.

[Vanimal46]

17 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Unless they think they can get Bellinger, or think a 35-36-year-old Adam Duvall will cut it, they're going to be in the exact same situation as they are now with the position, which from my view, is not good.

If what we saw this year is the new normal for Buxton, I have no issue giving Bellinger a 6/$120 contract this winter. 

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

If what we saw this year is the new normal for Buxton, I have no issue giving Bellinger a 6/$120 contract this winter. 

He plays a premium position though, he's likely going to have enough suitors to be able to choose his destination. I wouldn't want to go into the off season pinning all the team's CF fortune on one guy only to find out it's not going to happen.

I'm also quite leery of players who were terrible right up until their contract year.

[saviking]

23 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Other than Lewis, I don't see youth filling any more holes this year unless there are a significant number of injuries.  The INF will be Kirilloff / Julien / Lewis and Correa.  The OF will be Kepler / MAT / Wallner.  The September call up for position players will be Prato or Severino.

Next year .... Move Lewis to the OF and 3B is a competition between Lee / Miranda /Prato and Severino.  The OF is Kepler / Wallner / Lewis and Buxton.  Castro is the only certain bench player.  Farmer probably stays but there are 2-3 bench roles between Farmer / Gordon / Martin / Prato / Severino and maybe even Hellman.  

Good analysis. Sounds like Polanco and Solano go and of course Gallo per your analysis. I can't argue with that. Do we have room for both Castro and Gordon? I don't think so. Buxton and Taylor. I don't think so if Lewis moves to Center. I guess you suggest we trade Larnach?

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

They won't lose anyone significant prospects.   They have 7 expiring contracts (Gray / Maeda / Mahle / Pagán / Solano / Gallo / MAT).  They can also remove De León / Celestino and Henriquez.  Polanco is likely traded or option rejected.  Farmer and Gordon are also not locks.  That's a total of (13) 40-man spots assuming they keep Kepler.

Just to clarify, De Leon, Canterino, Mahle, Paddack, Stewart and Gordon, while technically on the 40 man they aren't currently counted.

Alcala, Balazovic, Canterino, Duran, Headrick, Henriquez, Jax, Lopez, Moran, Ober, Ryan, Sands, Varland, Winder, SWR, Paddack
(16 coming back)
Jeffers, Vazquez, Correa, Farmer, Julien, AK, Lewis, Miranda, Polanco, Castro, Kepler, Larnach, Wallner, Buxton
(14 coming back)
Not Back
Taylor, Luplow, Gordon, Gallo, Celestino, Solano, Thielbar, Stewart, Pagan, Ortega, Mahle, Maeda, Keuchel, Gray, Floro, Del Leon.
(16)
So technically they would have 10 spots, but 10 of the guys not coming back are also on the active roster.

So it isn't as easy to say there is plenty of room for the prospects, that is why IMO this offseason they need to trade Larnach or Wallner, and probably Miranda. I don't think they are going to trade Kepler or Polanco because they aren't going to run 5 or 6 young players.