José Berríos Traded to Blue Jays

[Dodecahedron]

Can't wait to see Woods-Richardson's name on the back of a jersey with the Twins.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Agreed, not my best take. I’m pretty bummed to lose the only homegrown pitching talent we’ve developed in the last decade. 

True for sure. They've been abysmal at that. Hoping this starts to change this year/next. If not......

[Brandon]

For those updating our prospect lists don't forget we signed our top pick the high schooler with a 102 mph fastball.  Where is he on the list?

[Squirrel]

12 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Martin
Woods-Richardson
Lewis
Balazovic
Maybe Ryan here? Windor? I like Miranda a lot but not sure he's #5 yet.

It will be interesting to see the prospect rankings and write ups when all is said and done. Come on, @Seth Stohs, get cranking!  

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Brandon said:

For those updating our prospect lists don't forget we signed our top pick the high schooler with a 102 mph fastball.  Where is he on the list?

7th or so? Fangraphs has him 11th before this deal. If they get a good prospect for Pineda, he might be as low as 14th there......

[howeda7]

31 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

world champs 2026

Except we'll trade Kiriloff, Larnach and Belazovich in 2025 to save $ and get prospects for "the future."

[Whitey333]

Well we will see.  We traded arguably our best hitter (Cruz) and now our.best.pitcher (Berrios) for prospects. I hope they are major league players.soon.and.good.ones.  But prospects are just.suspects until they prove themselves.  So why, at least as of.now,.did we.trade.away.our.best.two players.and.have.all..these stiffs still on the team?

 

[Taildragger8791]

I see the ranking on SWR but he concerns me with his control issues. He averages over 18 pitches per inning and is walking over 5 guys per 9. Granted, 3 terrible games make up the bulk of the walks but he still throws a lot of pitches to get through 5 innings at AA. Control is one of the hardest things to fix it seems like, so hopefully there's a good solution in mind.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

26 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Simon-Richardson was one of the big pieces in the Mets Stroman trade a couple years ago. 4 pitch pitcher. Fastball, chaneup, curve and slider. Seems like he ran into pretty massive, and unexpected, control problems this year, but he's a 20 year old pitching at AA after the lost 2020 season.

A very nice write up on Simon-Richardson https://jaysjournal.com/2020/02/15/blue-jays-2020-top-prospects-4-simeon-woods-richardson/

Great.

Prospects twice-traded do not fare well. I actually looked at this a couple years ago. There were a couple of exceptions of course and maybe something has changed since I looked or maybe this is “the one”

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Whitey333 said:

Well we will see.  We traded arguably our best hitter (Cruz) and now our.best.pitcher (Berrios) for prospects. I hope they are major league players.soon.and.good.ones.  But prospects are just.suspects until they prove themselves.  So why, at least as of.now,.did we.trade.away.our.best.two players.and.have.all..these stiffs still on the team?

 

Cruz was a FA.....why keep him? 

All these players were once prospects......

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Great.

Prospects twice-traded do not fare well. I actually looked at this a couple years ago. There were a couple of exceptions of course and maybe something has changed since I looked or maybe this is “the one”

I think Martin is the sure* thing here, and the pitcher is riskier for sure.......Do they need pitching? Yes. But they also need hitters and fielders. 

*no player is a sure thing....

[h2oface]

43 minutes ago, Mike Frasier Law said:

Simeon Woods-Richardson. Tell me about him!

92 mph 2 seam fastball, 94 mph 4 seam fastball. Currently getting lit up in AA. 

[Dodecahedron]

46 minutes ago, Mike Frasier Law said:

Simeon Woods-Richardson. Tell me about him!

92 mph 2 seam fastball, 94 mph 4 seam fastball. Currently getting lit up in AA. 

[Minny505]

2 minutes ago, Taildragger8791 said:

I see the ranking on SWR but he concerns me with his control issues. He averages over 18 pitches per inning and is walking over 5 guys per 9. Granted, 3 terrible games make up the bulk of the walks but he still throws a lot of pitches to get through 5 innings at AA. Control is one of the hardest things to fix it seems like, so hopefully there's a good solution in mind.

I always take pitcher minor league numbers with a huge grain of salt. There are so many controllable reasons they struggle: 

• working on a third pitch and throwing it far more than they would in the majors
• working on refining mechanics
• focusing on grips
• working to get batter command in a dangerous part of the zone
• and so much more

[gunnarthor]

Plus fatigue. Seems like his last few starts were the big problem.

[notoriousgod71]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Cruz was a FA.....why keep him? 

All these players were once prospects......

Yes, and they've already weeded out the possibility of being a bust by having a long career of success.

 

Acquiring prospects does nothing for me. They'll either be awful and we'll keep them too long or they'll be good and we'll trade them for more prospects. At no point will this formula amount to winning unless you keep your good players.

 

[Alex Schieferdecker]

Seems like a big return, so a good deal from the Twins perspective.

Will miss Berrios, wish him all the luck with Toronto. He's always looked good in light blue, and they've got the best light blue uniforms in the league.

[Tibs]

Very sad to see Berrios go.

I'm definitely happy with the return. We could not have expected to get more than this.

It's obvious Berrios was going to test free agency, so this is likely the best case scenario.

[Otto von Ballpark]

7 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Great.

Prospects twice-traded do not fare well. I actually looked at this a couple years ago. There were a couple of exceptions of course and maybe something has changed since I looked or maybe this is “the one”

I’d be interested to see that. Did you compare them to how all prospects fare in general? And how once-traded prospects fare? I don’t think the success rate of any prospect group would be super-high, but it would be interesting to see if there was a meaningful penalty for being traded / being traded multiple times.

[MABB1959]

Why get a SS when we have Royce Lewis in the wings?  Or isn't he anymore.  Wasn't he first round, first pick WAY BACK IN 2017?  Most of the times none of this makes any sense.  So we got a pitching prospect and a SS prospect for one of the best pitchers we have had in the last 20 years?  

[Mike Sixel]

Fangraphs is sliding Martin down to 59th on their list! We'll get a write up later today.....

 

[bean5302]

29 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

...Hassell is 3 years younger, and putting up better numbers at A than Martin is at AA...

Low A ball is two levels below AA. The two biggest steps in the minors, in my opinion are Low A to High A and High A to AA. This is especially the case after the restructuring. The competition level for Hassell is dramatically lower and he's probably an ETA of 2024-2025, cup of coffee in 2023 probably at the earliest.

An .807 OPS in AA from a first year pro as a potential shortstop is way more impressive than a .855 OPS in Low A from a first year pro as a potential center fielder, even with the age difference.

That said, Martin might have a tough row to hoe in becoming an MLB SS so that might slow him down a bit. He was primarily a 3rd baseman at Vandy before this past season when he saw more time in center field. His fielding percentage at AA SS lines right up with other Twins prospects at the position (which is to say very bad). Right now, I'd say Toronto is trying to maximize his value to the club by pushing the shortstop plan.

[Otto von Ballpark]

1 minute ago, MABB1959 said:

Why get a SS when we have Royce Lewis in the wings?   

Shortstops can often move to other positions successfully.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, MABB1959 said:

Why get a SS when we have Royce Lewis in the wings?  Or isn't he anymore.  Wasn't he first round, first pick WAY BACK IN 2017?  Most of the times none of this makes any sense.  So we got a pitching prospect and a SS prospect for one of the best pitchers we have had in the last 20 years?  

Well, SS can usually move to CF, LF, 3B, 2B, or stay at SS.......What would you expect to get for 1 player?

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fangraphs is sliding Martin down to 59th on their list! We'll get a write up later today.....

 

I'll be interested to read this, but what I remember reading about Martin was more that he was a good athlete who could play a valuable defensive position, not that he was necessarily a likely SS. So "lack of defensive fit" isn't a huge knock, IMO.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, whosafraidofluigirussolo said:

I'll be interested to read this, but what I remember reading about Martin was more that he was a good athlete who could play a valuable defensive position, not that he was necessarily a likely SS. So "lack of defensive fit" isn't a huge knock, IMO.

And it isn't like 59th best prospect is bad......It is great.

[KnoblauchWasFramed]

9 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Well we will see.  We traded arguably our best hitter (Cruz) and now our.best.pitcher (Berrios) for prospects. I hope they are major league players.soon.and.good.ones.  But prospects are just.suspects until they prove themselves.  So why, at least as of.now,.did we.trade.away.our.best.two players.and.have.all..these stiffs still on the team?

 

Because.Otherwise.We.Would.Have.Lost.Both.In.Free.Agency.And.Gotten.Nothing.To.Show.For.It.  Why would we have kept these guys on one of the worst teams in baseball right now??  Cruz is 42 and it's time for Larnach, Rooker, and Kirilloff to get those ABs. 

And Berrios was never going to resign with the Twins.  Today, his value would have never been higher that it was right now at this moment.  There is no way that some team gives us there #2 and #4 prospects for him next year for 2 months work of service.  

These trades were scores for the Twins and the Rays and Jays 100% overpaid for Cruz and Berrios.  Joe Smith has been forgotten in all of this but he is starting for Team USA in the Olympics today and he was the Rays Minor League Player of the Year in 2020.  And that's saying a lot for a team that has proven to be the MLB version of the Baltimore Ravens when it comes to drafting.  Joe Smith very realistically is our #3 or #4 next year before even seeing what we bring back in Free Agency or in further trades this afternoon.  And Austin Martin is one good Spring Training away from being our 2B next season.  

[MABB1959]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Well, SS can usually move to CF, LF, 3B, 2B, or stay at SS.......What would you expect to get for 1 player?

I certainly would not expect a SS when we have one waiting?  I guess if the are moveable, but still makes little to no sense when we need pitching. 

[ashbury]

We got Aston Martin! My heart is beating faster now!

These are two highly ranked prospects, no question. But the high-upside comes with questions on both.

Big questions about Martin's arm - left field and 2B aren't positions of need now or in the foreseeable future  - FalVine's penchant for top bats continues, with the theory that the defensive role will work itself out eventually.

SWR's seeming control yips don't bode well.

I hope our evaluation guys and our on-field guys are on the same page about developing these two jewels.

Call me greedy but I was hoping for a couple of low-minors guys in addition - moderate upside only, but genuine C+ prospects.

[bean5302]

3 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

Why get a SS when we have Royce Lewis in the wings?  Or isn't he anymore.  Wasn't he first round, first pick WAY BACK IN 2017?  Most of the times none of this makes any sense.  So we got a pitching prospect and a SS prospect for one of the best pitchers we have had in the last 20 years?  

Because Lewis may not be a SS and will start next year in A+ ball. Lewis will have missed 2 years and struggled in 2019.