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Twodogs

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  1. I remember when teams would waive a player and allow him to clear waivers and then trade him. A la Verlander. As long as no one claimed him you could trade him as he wasn't on the 40 man any longer. I thought with the strict Aug 1st deadline that they couldn't do that anymore?
  2. I didn't think teams could trade players after the deadline anymore?
  3. The sad thing is that he has actually done ok in St Louis. 7 starts, 3 - 2, 4.7 era, 1.3 whip. Had he averaged those numbers for the Twins they probably would have considered him a success. Instead he pitched to the tune of a 6.7 era.
  4. I watched Pineda throwing 93 today vs the Royals? I think with the Twins dealing Berrios that they should probably go with what they got and see if they can rely on maybe 3 guys or so. Then go after a big ace type pitcher the following year so as to get that main guy in the rotation. But really next year they should see how their young guys can fair in MLB. I'm just speculating but let's say that Ryan, Ober and Balazovic can get major league outs over 6+ innings and then the following year you get Maeda back and you pick up an Ace, now you have a solid rotation. But if you pick up a couple of scrap heap starters and bring back Pineda then, at least to me, that limits how much MLB info you can get on the guys in your system which they have quite a few at this point in time that by age wise should be getting opportunities now if not sooner. It really seems like to me that the twins pitching prospects toil down in the minors a little too long. I mean they brought Berrios up when he was 22, and don't get me wrong, he stunk it up, but at 22 it gives a player enough time to go back down and work on the things that will make him better, I think those guys need to see what the MLB hitter are going to do to them and then they can adjust and come back up and be ready to get outs. But when you wait till these guys are 25, 26 or 27 before giving them a shot, (I mean you know they are going to go through major struggles at the highest level,) when they ultimately go through their failures they really don't have any more time to go down to the minors to right the ship, they are now pretty much too old to make those adjustments and come back. I think they need to give Balazovic a shot and those other young guys they have, that way they can send the ones struggling back down in June and July and let them work on their adjustments and bring them back up in September etc.... Just my opinion, but I really think the Twins need to see what they now have in the system. They have so many young guys down there now with all of the trades bring em up and see what they got and what they can tweak to get them ready for the following season. I don't think keeping them in the minors behind another shoemaker or Happ replacement does the team any good. Or if you don't want to go that route then trade those kids for some vets. But me personally I'd rather see what those kids can do. Don't sign a bunch of scrap heap guys which will hold the kids down. Play the kids and when you know who is going to step up then sign that ace to complete the rotation.
  5. Hindsight is definitely 20/20, but as people have mentioned things like maybe Ray or Rodon don't do as well with the twins as they have done with their respective teams, so looking at things may have changed for the better or worse what if the Twins had just kept what they had in house?? Odorizzi and Hill who have both been decent this year, way way better than Shoemaker and Happ, but nowhere near Rodon etc.... But had they also just kept May and Romo over Colome and Robles? I mean when teams get on a roll you know guys will play better than what their peripherals say they should and vice versa. For instance Happ looked like his career was done and now in St Louis he looks ok again? But what if the clubhouse mostly stayed the same?? Odorizzi and Hill; Trevor May and Romo? Maybe even clippard also? How far off would that have put the payroll? I know for a fact that those guys play better than what the twins replaced them with. But how much?
  6. I guess the way I am looking at it is.... This season is obviously over. So I'm glad that Albers got another start in his career and he did great. But every time the Twins start a guy like Albers I feel that they have just wasted an opportunity for a young guy who has a ton of potential the opportunity to start. I feel as though the Twins have guys like Balazovic in the minors why not give him a shot??? I mean they could just start him like 2 times and call it good, just so he can get his feet wet. Same with Ryan, Simeon woods, Duran, etc .... Bring those guys up for a couple of starts to see what they have, right now. Don't wait until next season when one of the dumpster dive guys is locking down a rotation spot. Start everyone that they think could help next season and go from there.
  7. Yeah I know we all were so happy when they got rid of Ryan. But........ As a Monday morning QB, I mean most of the guys like Buxton, Berrios, Polanco, Sano, Kepler, Garver etc.... All were brought in by Ryan? Right? I mean I think we all knew that the Twins had some real good position players coming up out of the minors when Ryan was let go, and the new guys were going to add pitching to those position players? Right? So I mean the hitter were already here and they haven't brought in any pitching?
  8. First off, I definitely felt like you were being condescending with your response, if I didn't, I wouldn't have responded in the way that I did. If you look at all of my responses I can't remember the last time I have gotten irritated like that, probably back into the days of Dankind. Nonetheless, I have no problems with people disagreeing with takes or thoughts as I can disagree with them also. However, when you get snide with me in so much as saying that I am making a "Strawman" argument when I said that Hand was worth more than Colome then yes you are being condescending. Yes I retaliated. My rebuttal to Hand vs Colome is, yes Hand did not pitch particularly great this year, but who was able to bring back something in a trade? It wasn't Colome, and I know everyone can say, (well how do you know that the Twins tried to trade him)? But you know if someone had offered something for Colome the Twins would have jumped at it, just like they did with Happ. So Hand, in my opinion, was worth more than Colome; he would have cost a few more million, not much, but he really wouldn't have because they would have received a prospect for him and his new team would be finishing up paying him his salary so when you take that into consideration he "might" have been cheaper? Yes, he probably does not make a difference with the Twins this year, but the Twins wouldn't have been worse that is for sure, and who know 2 or 3 of those early season blown games if they go in the Twins direction maybe they would have gotten on a roll?? Sometimes it doesn't take much to change outcomes, but that is a stretch for sure, but they wouldn't have been worse and they would have been able to move him. Then to say that when I brought up the point the it could be probable that other teams will out bid the Twins for Pineda was "Specious" was again a underhanded way of talking down to me. It's fine that you bring up the points that the Twins could afford him, of course they could, and he would fit into the back end of their rotation or anyone's for that matter. But it is not actually wrong that a team could outbid the Twins, I mean it happens all of the time and it might happen again with Buxton if the Twins let it by not offering him a real contract. The Twins have been getting out bid by teams pretty much for their entire existence they have a very short track record of actually winning any bidding wars with teams. Now when they have it was with home grown players usually guys like Puckett and Mauer. But to make that argument is by no means specious. I agree with you if I could predict the future I would be in Vegas also. Berrios is a little bit flawed, but if they can't bring him back then how would they sign someone better? So my point is that Berrios is kind of a #1, but not a #1 who can match up with the likes of Cole. So they would need to get a guy like Syndergard to be the #1 and push Berrios to #2 that would make Maeda a #3/4 depending upon what one of the young guys do. Now the Twins have a shot at winning a playoff series, I think you kind of probably agree with that. So my point has been tht since they got rid of Berrios, that pretty much shows that they are starting over with the rotation with the young guys which means they won't be competitive for a couple of years. Since most likely they won't be competitive why would the Twins get into any type of bidding war for Pineda's services and if Pineda wants to get to the playoffs with a shot at something he will have to leave in order to do it because he doesn't really have that much time left if you look at the average life of a pitcher in MLB. So some team out there that is trying to get somewhere next year that needs a guy in #4 slot could target Pineda and would have good reason to out bid the Twins by a million to get what they need because the Twins really don't need him if they most likely aren't going to compete as they might as well see what Dobnak et.al. can really do if they get a shot. But had you just gave your points as to why you disagreed with me, I may or may not have responded, I responded in the way I did because you were condescending and talking down to me. Not overtly but in an backhanded sort of way. When I responded the way I did, I wasn't trying to be snide or backhanded I was letting you know how I felt straight up. Im cool with people disagreeing with me in any discussion as I am entitled to my opinion and so are you, but I'm not going to take any crap and that's why I came back at you the way I did. I think in the end we both want the Twins to do well.
  9. I know Minaya has been a reliever most of his career, but dang he's thrown quite a few pitches this outing, I wonder if he has the ability, or pitch selection to be a starter?? He throws hard and he's dang near thrown 50 pitches?
  10. Yes the Twins got lucky on the Happ deal for sure. I thought he was buried on the Twins for the rest of the year.
  11. First off I really don't give a flying you know what, what you think. I'm telling you what I think! If you don't like it then don't like it. But don't sit here and try to be condescending towards me because you don't agree with me and my thoughts. Because you think based on your fantasy team that you know you know you know how things would have turned out, you don't!! I can say that Colome did so poorly that the twins had to rotate one guy after another at the back end of the bullpen. Hand was good enough to pretty much be the guy and even when Washington ended up not being that good Washington was able to trade Hand because he still had value, had anyone offered the Twins a bucket of baseballs for Colome they would have taken it. So don't sit here and tell me about how Colome was a better signing than Hand would have been. You don't know, I can speculate that Hand would have done better than Colome, and then I can reach and say maybe in this situation in Minnesota he might have done a little better? Maybe worse, but not worse than Colome and he would have had value at the trade deadline had the Twins still been in this same mess. So the Twins brought Berrios up through their system to be their guy. He was their best pitcher, the guy you put up against other teams best pitchers. You get rid of him what's the point of keeping Pineda?? He's on an expiring contract you are praying that the Twins re-sign him so salvage some sort of rotation next year, but they traded the best they had, so who's going to go up against Scherzer, Cole, etc.... Berrios now for that matter who's going to go up against him from the Twins? Pineda, Maeda? I mean come on, I'm pretty sure Pineda sees it too that's why, unless he feels like he doesnt have the stuff to do better than being with the Twins that I'm pretty sure he's probably thinking dang if someone offers me something elsewhere, at least a good team he will be gone. No he probably won't leave the Twins for Pittsburgh, but if the Angels come calling or Seattle, etc.... The Twins will have to overpay to keep him in those situations and why? Might as well go with the young guys, since you gave up on the guy you delveloped to be that guy then it's time to develop some new guys and keeping older #3 - 4 starters around just gets in the way of that. Maeda is signed for a few years so he might be here still when this new crop develops, but Pineda will not be and so now you are suggesting that he just gives up his ability to compete for something because now it's going to take the Twins a couple of years to put together another staff to make a run again. Don't talk down to me to tell me what to think!
  12. But Colome has performed so much better? You guys are praying that they sign Pineda, but I don't see it. I think he will be elsewhere next year.
  13. Well KC didn't exactly have terrible starters. I mean I don't remember which year but I know Volquez must have pitched over 200 innings and Ventura had a few really good years in a row there before he died and he threw 100mph then there was Shields and Young who were no slouches. What I'm saying is that who knows, Ventura may be the equivalent of Scherzer or Verlander today had he not died. So they did have a couple of go to guys in their rotation, and of course their bullpen was lights out. But I mean their offense hardly had anyone who hit 20 home runs? I don't think that looking to put together an offense where no one can hit barely over 20 bombs is the best way to go, but the Royals did it. But I still don't think it's the best way. And let's look at the teams that have won. Dodgers, pretty good starting pitching, Nationals, pretty good starting pitching, Astros pretty good starting pitching. I mean there is a general theme here. Even if a team doesn't have that great of a rotation usually they have a dude or two who can shut people down, maybe not much behind that so the over all rotation can be average, but usually a dude here and there. That's the thing in a series having a guy that is most likely going to win 2 maybe 3 games you really really increase your chances of being able to win the series. Not saying it's the only way to get things done, but it's the easiest way to get it done with the pitching.
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