Could Someone—Anyone At All—Give Twins Fans Any Reason To Believe? Please?

[Reptevia]

Agreed. Once they trade Lopez/Ryan, give up on Lewis, lose Jefferson to FA/too much money, and Buxton demands a trade or retires, what’s left?  Basically an expansion team. 

[Woof Bronzer]

4 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Good lord, are we really panicking about the upcoming youth based off of an extremely small sample size?

I am as ticked off about the current situation with the Twins as anyone, I do not need to retread the last 18 months here, especially how the trade deadline was handled. But this is not the mid-90's. The cupboard is not bare.

You can sit here on the comment board and continue to wail and moan about the current status of the Twins. You can complain about Falvey, Rocco, anyone else you want to blame for the current situation. Feel free to live in a world of negativity (beware that studies show that negative people have shorter life spans). I have barely touched the articles and comments over the last three weeks here because it is a broken record. The same stories spouting the same tone. The same people post the same old comments regardless of whatever the story content is.

The Pohlads do not care about the fans. They do not care about the product. They treat the team as a business, not a social responsibility. You need to accept this and move on. You need to accept the fact that winning is nowhere near the top priority for the organization right now. Winning will not even be on the radar until after the new CBA. All of the b**ching and complaining will not change that.

The past is the past. I advise you to enjoy the game for what it is right now. Be excited for Keaschall and Lee showing some life. Be excited to see Buxton be healthy and finally play like everyone expects him to. Be excited to know that there is a young crop of potential SP that could lead this team back to contention fairly quickly. Be excited to know there are still 3-4 players coming up in the next 12 months that could re-vitalize this team.

(The sad part is that the same people will read this comment, thumbs-down it, and say the Twins have need to fire Rocco and Falvey before anything good can happen with the younger players and the team, entirely missing the point of this comment.)

"Stop with all the negativity!  All you guys do is complain about things you have no control over!  Also, Dan Gladden must be fired, I hate him so much I made it my username so I'd never forget how bad he is and how much he should be fired!  But like I was saying, negativity sucks!"

[IndianaTwin]

52 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Nick I think you are in the depression stage of the 7 stages of grief.  

Abel had 2-3 great performance in AAA.   Anything at the MLB level is a work in progress.  I think Lee is closer to a .260 to .270 hitter as he figures things out but lets look at August.  He has a .238/.326/.413 slash line for a .739 OPS.  Is there room for improvement.  Absolutely.  Is that a massive improvement on what we have see absolutely.  He is a +.7 War since the trade deadline.  He is not someone I am giving up at all on.  His approach is so much better.  He is learning weak contact is bad contact, and walks are just as good as a hit and he is having so great at bats.  10 or 11 pitches on an at bat with the White Sox the other day.  

Lee, Keaschall and Buxton is your core moving forward.  Lewis we need to find out what he gives us.  There is a lot of hope out there,  currently you just don't want to see it.  Its understandable.   

Lopez, Ryan, Ober, SWR, Matthews, Festa, Abel, Bradley, Rojas, Raya, Adams, Prielipp, Culpepper...

Buxton, Keaschall, Lee, Lewis, Garver, Jenkins, Gonzalez, Rodriguez, Culpepper, Eeles, Fedko, Culpepper...

Not seeing hope is at least partly a choice. Will enough of them come through? Who knows? But at least for me, approaching life with hope does my soul better (and is more fun) than the alternative. 

 

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

Your essay is too correct. It's just really hard to see where we're going and everybody in baseball looks to the prospects to be the next great heroes. But you outlined and your essay how we have failed with previous wonderful prospects. What makes us believe that this next group will get here prosper and develop to what we hope they can be? 

 

Perhaps the most puzzling thing to me is how the owners can be so deaf to the fans and their responses I really think it's not just a low point in twins on the field. I think it's going to be really hard the fans back into target field.  

I do know the sun rises in the east  and sets in the west ...

I do know the owners suck ...

I do know falvey has taken this team and destroyed it , he's still working here , he could have gone elsewhere  but he's still here , its his responsibility to the team and for the fans,  hes done nothing to instill optomizum ,  he sucks ...

I do know baldelli is not a major league manager and is not a leader but a follower of falvey , he sucks ....

I don't know how anyone with this organization could like their job ,  i do know the only reason many people stay at their jobs they don't like is the money , SHOW ME THE MONEY AND I WILL STAY ...

So to conclude  ;

I do know that this whole organization lacks any kind of pride and sucks , hind tit that is ...

 

This is a reality statement , not negativity ...

[Sparky55]

I wish the Wilfs owned the Twins they at least want to win!

[tony&rodney]

The enjoyment of baseball (for me) resides in the plays, not wins or losses. Winning is great, losing is frustrating. A well placed pitch, a fine defensive play, a heads up running play, and a good plate appearance are what I'm seeking.

The Twins have problems. The center of the problem (imo) is an ownership group that is disconnected. Thus free rein is afforded the front office and manager to pursue their vision of baseball. Now one must acknowledge that every person who has an affinity for baseball will have their view, but only the guys in charge get their wish. 

I cannot understand what The Plan is for the Twins. Under current leaders they have consistently fielded slow, defensively challenged teams that do not understand how to run the bases and are not aware of situational hitting. 

There are plays made in virtually every game that are positive so as a baseball fan I have many options and opportunities to enjoy the games. That includes other teams, many minor league games, and the Twins. 

Until the Pohlad family takes an active interest in their corporation, The Minnesota Twins Baseball Club L.L.C., there is unlikely to be much change in the way the team is run. Of course, some feel the team is run just fine. Some feel 2026 will be magically different.

The play by Brooks Lee last night, the throw by Gasper, and the home runs were enjoyable to watch. The current Twins team is the worst in baseball at this time, but there are still moments to enjoy in every game.

[jmlease1]

Just now, Sparky55 said:

I wish the Wilfs owned the Twins they at least want to win!

They do, but the economics for the NFL are pretty different. revenue sharing is much stronger, and the locality differences are much less pronounced. No one in the NFL has to rely on localized media rights deals to form a substantial part of the revenue, and the actual costs to putting on a game in terms of overhead are also less (an NFL stadium is much bigger, but you're looking at 9-12 games a season to put on, including preseason & playoffs, as opposed to 81-90). There's no farm system to support either.

We have no idea how the Wilfs would behave as owners of the Twins. That said, we've seen enough of Team Pohlad over the past 40 years to be ready to take a risk with about anyone this side of John Fisher...

[RpR]

3 hours ago, theBOMisthebomb said:

The mode of 'just enjoy each game regardless of outcome' and don't worry about the future is my plan. It seems the only reasonable choice to stay grounded. 

We're still watching major league baseball, it's the sport I love. 

There is NO better reason,.

Thank You.

[jjswol]

Nick, nice recap of what Twitter/X Twins fans have been saying for a long time.

[D.C Twins]

3 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

Can this quote be trusted?

“I look at a Pablo López- and Joe Ryan-led pitching group,” Falvey said.

(narrator's voice) No... no it cannot

[D.C Twins]

58 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

"Stop with all the negativity!  All you guys do is complain about things you have no control over!  Also, Dan Gladden must be fired, I hate him so much I made it my username so I'd never forget how bad he is and how much he should be fired!  But like I was saying, negativity sucks!"

Fine line between negativity and statements of reality...

[saviking]

3 hours ago, theBOMisthebomb said:

The mode of 'just enjoy each game regardless of outcome' and don't worry about the future is my plan. It seems the only reasonable choice to stay grounded. 

We're still watching major league baseball, it's the sport I love. 

Funny, but true. My hope is they go with a full on youth movement over the next 2 years. I would much rather watch a promising rookie mature than watch all of thlse major league baseball rethreads they sign at 5 mill a pop. 

[T.O.]

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

 I have barely touched the articles and comments over the last three weeks here because it is a broken record. 
 

I meant to thank you for that.

 

[Finlander]

1 hour ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Winning will not even be on the radar until after the new CBA.

(Oops, I quoted a quote..)

So then why should we buy tickets or merchandise prior to the new CBA?

[Rod Carews Birthday]

54 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Good lord, are we really panicking about the upcoming youth based off of an extremely small sample size?

No.  Not yet, but it would have really helped my morale if one of the acquisitions would have had a solid beginning to his Twins career.  

55 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

But this is not the mid-90's. The cupboard is not bare.

We didn't think it was that bare in the mid-90's either.  There were plenty of prospects that just didn't materialize the way we wanted them to.  I was also around in the late 70's/early 80's.  My optimism told me we had a shot, but boy was that a long time coming.   

 

57 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

The past is the past. I advise you to enjoy the game for what it is right now. Be excited for Keaschall and Lee showing some life. Be excited to see Buxton be healthy and finally play like everyone expects him to. Be excited to know that there is a young crop of potential SP that could lead this team back to contention fairly quickly. Be excited to know there are still 3-4 players coming up in the next 12 months that could re-vitalize this team.

I will in fact do that.  I could just be a lot happier with those players coming up in the next 12 months and some bullpen arms left in the fold, and without the seeming impending doom of trading Ryan and Lopez.  Admittedly, we don't exactly know what will happen on that front, but we aren't exactly being given signs that it won't happen.  For what it's worth, I agree that wailing and rending garments about ownership and management won't do any good even though they deserve it. It will just make you sweaty and frustrate you more.  

I'm probably different that a lot of people on TD.  There really isn't a major difference in quality for me when watching a team play on a daily basis between a 75 win team and an 85 win team.  Yes, one will lose more games, but any game can and likely will go either direction.  What I don't want is a 60-65 win team, because those really are painful to watch (I live in Chicago -- believe me, it's ugly), particularly one that might be in that big hole for awhile.  Unfortunately, that's where I see a Twins team composed almost exclusively of youngsters in the next couple of years.  Hanging onto Lopez/Ryan/Jeffers (Buxton is assumed) at least keeps us in the realm of respectable and gives me the feeling that we might win a few games.  I'm not personally big on the "leadership" factor in a vacuum, but I also know that a team full of rookies seldom develops in the same was as they would with something good to observe and emulate.  Making the playoffs would be fantastic and making a world series would be even better, but spending our time in 60 win purgatory year after year is worse to a degree I don't enjoy thinking about.  

I share the frustration of @Nick Nelson and that of all of the other Twins fans currently dealing with this.  I'm hoping to get past it, because I've been a fan since about 1972 and it's part of my life.  People are going to feel the way they feel, and they need time to process it.   

[farmerguychris]

After what ownership pulled the past 2 years - I really doubt we'll ever see post season success again as long as this family owns the team.

It feels obvious that winning is 2nd to profits - Period.  Hard Stop.  

In 2023, we finally were on the right path after 20 years.  Then, when all conventional thoughts tell us to spend a little more to get over the top - we pull back spending.  If that doesn't show where their priorities are - what does?  (who believes that $400M in debt was accrued by the Twins instead of other businesses they own?)

People point to the 87 and 91 championship teams.  Baseball was different back then.

In 1987 the Yankees (shocking!) led MLB with a $21.5M payroll.  The Twins were 11th (out of 26) at $13M between the Houston and Philly.  (I also found it reported we only spent $6M in total team payroll that year - not important I guess to know which is correct for this)

Obviously now that individual players make more than the entire team payroll of even the highest spending teams - from the last era we won a championship - things have changed.   

Until this ownership realizes you have to accept a few million less a year in profits (by spending it on the field) - we will not win.

Sure, most of us will show up for games (including myself) - at least a few times a year.  Yes, we'll buy our hats, beers and jerseys - because we're more loyal to the Twins than the owners are.  To them - its just an investment like RiverRoad Entertainment, PAR Systems, and United Properties.

It, to me, feels helpless.  I can't quit them, but I see no logical reason to care about them, other than I simply love baseball - and naturally feel the need to root for a favorite team.  PS - I'm too old to find a new favorite team.

I'll probably just watch them like I always have, but I have to keep my expectations in check, because the Pohlad family has different goals than I do.

 

[USAFChief]

Agree 100%, @Nick Nelson.

Been living and dying Twins baseball since the early 60s.

This sucks. This team is a joke.

 

[Nick Nelson]

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Good lord, are we really panicking about the upcoming youth based off of an extremely small sample size?

I think it was made pretty clear in the article that no one is panicking (" Is that meaningful in such a small sample? Not really."), but it's pretty astounding how bad the first impressions have been. Difficult to get much worse.

And the thing is: burden of proof is on these players and the Twins to show they can become anything. MN's front office essentially bought low on all of these guys who've become sidetracked in their careers by very evident flaws, all of which have been on display. These aren't red-hot prospects getting a splash of cold water in their first exposure to the majors. They're all trending in a negative direction.

When you look at past examples of success, they've been pretty much the opposite. It was instantly obvious what Joe Ryan could be. Yes there are many examples of guys overcoming bumps in the road, but, going back to the premise of the article, why should anyone be expected to trust in that? What are the past success stories in this vein that we can look to? 

[LastOnePicked]

Mickey Gasper just gave you a 9th-inning homerun. What more could you want!? Jeez, the Pohlads are right, Twins fans do expect too much.

Hope is a 2028 thing. Until then, I just want to see a new manager and a new brand of baseball that is smarter, tougher and more aggressive.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

5 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

Mickey Gasper just gave you a 9th-inning homerun. What more could you want!? Jeez, the Pohlads are right, Twins fans do expect too much.

Hope is a 2028 thing. Until then, I just want to see a new manager and a new brand of baseball that is smarter, tougher and more aggressive.

Nope.  I expect a team that Mickey Gasper doesn't have a role on.  I fear that he's next year's backup catcher.  

[howeda7]

3 hours ago, big dog said:

One of the interestings things is how they have changed from passive on the basepaths to stupidly aggressive, with slow runners trying to advance and fast runners taking silly chances. Does Baldelli provide any guidance at all, or is it just red light-green light?

 

Flashing yellow, which no one understands and crashes into each other. 

[USAFChief]

2 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

(The sad part is that the same people will read this commen... entirely missing the point of this comment.)

To come in to a thread you profess you don't want to read and scold us for reading it?

[LastOnePicked]

18 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I fear that he's next year's backup catcher.  

We'll see how offseason trades go. I fear he's next year's primary catcher.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, D.C Twins said:

Fine line between negativity and statements of reality...

No.

[bunsen82]

1 hour ago, Nick Nelson said:

I think it was made pretty clear in the article that no one is panicking (" Is that meaningful in such a small sample? Not really."), but it's pretty astounding how bad the first impressions have been. Difficult to get much worse.

And the thing is: burden of proof is on these players and the Twins to show they can become anything. MN's front office essentially bought low on all of these guys who've become sidetracked in their careers by very evident flaws, all of which have been on display. These aren't red-hot prospects getting a splash of cold water in their first exposure to the majors. They're all trending in a negative direction.

When you look at past examples of success, they've been pretty much the opposite. It was instantly obvious what Joe Ryan could be. Yes there are many examples of guys overcoming bumps in the road, but, going back to the premise of the article, why should anyone be expected to trust in that? What are the past success stories in this vein that we can look to? 

Joe Ryan had a .4 WAR and a 4ERA for us in 2021.  Not bad but nothing great either.  He was a low 90's fastball pitcher with an unorthodox motion.  Effectively a mid to back end starter.  Here are 2 articles.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/07/23/nelson-cruz-tampa-bay-rays-trade-grade

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2724557/2021/07/23/bowden-grading-the-nelson-cruz-trade-for-the-rays-and-twins/

If you knew he was going to be a #1 to #2 type pitcher back in 2021 I give you all the credit in the world.  Abel on each move up in the minors has struggled in his 1st taste then become dominant the next year.  He appears to be one who continues to work on his stuff just like Ryan.  I guess if we can get a similar player that continues to get better that already has pretty decent stuff - worst case goes the reliever route, I can handle that.  I have much more faith in Abel of the 2 pitchers.  

Roden was not the key of the Toronto trade.  As of now a better defensive outfielder with similar numbers to Larnach is what I am envisioning if it comes to fruition.  

Bradley is a wild card.   The issue is so was Jax.  Can they fix him.  

Other than Bradley and Abel, the majority of the value is minor league prospects.  Personally I view both Bradley and Abel as mid to back end rotation starters.   We will see if they can solidfy that in the next couple of starts.   Bradley success will come down to 2 things - can he throw the splitter and can not throw as many non competitive pitches as he did in the 1st outing.   My guess is yes.   

I think you are asking is what are the examples that the Twins have that they have improved a player past their 1st few Games.  Ryan is a perfect example.  He has continued to get better each year.  Ryan Jeffers improved after a couple years of seasoning.  Buxton hit .225 in 2016.  Bailey Ober was ok in 21 and 22 before a very good 23 and 24.  Prior to this year I like Ober better than Ryan before the injuries and I think most here would have agreed with me.  Louis Varland,  struggled for multiple years before settling into the bullpen.  Griffin Jax was rough in 2021. -1.1 WAR.  Jorge Polanco was meh in 2016. 

I know this doesn't fit your view of the organization right now,  but the Twins have had ample players improve during their tenures with the Twins.  To be fair recently it has been more on the pitching side than the hitting side.  With the success the Twins have had of improving pitchers on the pitching side it does lead credence that they can improve things especially this offseason for both Abel and Bradley.  We will see.  

[Aggies7]

No hope until on and off field management are changed. 

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

No hope until on and off field management are changed. 

And this includes minor league player development. Maybe we can finally master the intricacies of BASE RUNNING

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, IndianaTwin said:

Lopez, Ryan, Ober, SWR, Matthews, Festa, Abel, Bradley, Rojas, Raya, Adams, Prielipp, Culpepper...

Buxton, Keaschall, Lee, Lewis, Garver, Jenkins, Gonzalez, Rodriguez, Culpepper, Eeles, Fedko, Culpepper...

Not seeing hope is at least partly a choice. Will enough of them come through? Who knows? But at least for me, approaching life with hope does my soul better (and is more fun) than the alternative. 

 

I'm in this weird position. I was one of the most negative people on the 2024-2025 Twins here at TD (constantly being right sucks!) but I'm also seemingly one of the most optimistic people as it relates to the near future of the franchise.

This team could be very good in 2027 IF the right decisions are made leading into it. Falvey WILL trade away at least one of Lopez or Ryan, and he is 100% right to do so. Anyone fighting this is grasping onto a foolish idea that this team can turn around and be a contender in 2026. That isn't happening. 

A window closed on the Minnesota Twins earlier than we all would have liked, but the next window isn't necessarily that far away. 

Nick was very predictably wrong about this last Twins team, and his lack of optimism in the future is similarly misguided. 

Let's Go (2027) Twins! 

 

[Vanimal46]

5 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

No hope until on and off field management are changed. 

It really is this simple. There are so few organizations in sports that will allow a GM to keep their job after missing the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. Sadly we are one of them it appears. Our manager consistently shows he can’t coach up young talent, so he defaults to the trusty old veteran instead. Allowing this duo to lead a full rebuild is insanity. 

[Squirrel]

14 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

No hope until on and off field management are changed. 

That won’t change until ownership does. It starts at the top. Ownership isn’t likely to fire Falvey on down, so … same ol, same ol … until ownership changes.