Guardians 2, Twins 0: Quantrill, Guardians bullpen one-hit Twins in loss

[D.C Twins]

Polanco to lead off please... The Twins do not need extra Kepler at bats each game

[srjr19]

I've watched 140 or so games from this team every year since 2017.  I have concluded that the twins dugout must be happier than Disneyland.  Guys seem like they can't wait to get back in there.  What I can't figure out is how a lineup can both lead the league in strikeouts and take at bats like they're afraid of striking out.

I have hope that like Smalley says "Guys will play to the back of their baseball cards".  On the other hand, this is two+ years of watching this lineup get locked up by any old "joey bag o doughnuts" starter.

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, roger said:

But the umpire behind the plate was also having a terrible game.  Forget the inning, but it was late.  I believe Keps was leading off.  The first two pitches were at least 4” outside and the count was 0-2.  How does any hitter come back from that.

Having humans calling balls and strikes penalizes players, whether batters or pitchers, who know the strike zone. That is wrong. Robo umps now!

[Danchat]

I don't mean to do the whole "told you so" thing, but... well, I wondered where the runs were going to come from, especially after we traded Arraez. I was worried about how the hitting would fare against lefties, the numbers are rough. These batters better wake up or it's gonna be a long summer... and there will probably be more injuries over the next few months. Yikes.

[Guest]

Maybe the hitters need a night out in Amsterdam....

[#3Killer]

2 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

I believe your comment about lack of interest may not be that uncommon - particularly among those Twins fans who do not frequent the TD.  Several of us on this site predicted an overall light hitting team consisting of several somewhat transient players that would find it difficult to generate true enthusiasm.

This lack of interest excludes the more passionate, but much fewer in number, of us fans who might appreciate this year’s strategy of winning through outstanding pitching, mostly via our starting staff.

This strategy, however, relies on having a winning ball club to keep our renowned front running fan base with myriad other outdoor summer activities to pursue interested (and attending/watching!).  So far, that has been more or less the case.  Let’s hope we can keep that strategy working and more fans will become more invested as the summer progresses.  This seems like a likely scenario still.

Otherwise, a shift to Plan B (trade the transients and call up the prospects in August) might need to be implemented. 
 

 

Wow!!!! You are certainly a “true” fan. Sorry that my passionate support of the Twins since 1962 doesn’t qualify! 
my patience just ran out with this road trip. As a coach for 47 years, it is my understanding that it was my job to motivate the team and individuals, insist if every team members best effort, and put my players into a position where they have the opportunity to succeed. Any player that doesn’t buy into these basic expectations in all probability would be replaced by someone who gave this commitment. We have two player under “superstar” salary batting under or around .200!!!!  The team as a whole is about .220!!!! Is our hitting coach scheduling these slumping hitters for extra work? Are they being chewed out for poor plate discipline. Are we putting hitters out there day after day who have shown no batting ability but the “metrics “ say they “should” be successful??? Poor coaching. poor management, and players that appear that nothing more is expected if them. And then I am supposed to drive 250 miles and she’ll out a couple hundred dollars to watch this?????? No way!! Nothing drives me more insane than a “team” not doing what it takes to get it done!!! They are playing so far below their potential!!! This version of the Twins will be done by June!! 

[David HK]

JfC, this offense is beyond pathetic.   And Miranda is making me miss Sano.

Come back, Joe Vavra, wherever you are.  All is forgiven!

[tony&rodney]

One thing that may be overlooked, although many may disagree, is that Chicago and Cleveland are fully capable of winning a series against any team in baseball. 

The Twins have been carried by their pitching thus far, but the bats should come around soon enough. A few players may be shifted around and the lineup in mid June is likely to be different than the one that faced Chicago. The preseason forecasts were mostly around an expectation of 85 wins, some at 78 and others at 93, but nobody was too horribly high on the roster to rule all of baseball. Baseball is a long season. I'm expecting the Twins to have a winning record in May. A 14-13 month will be ok and a 12-15 record will not sink the season. I'm expecting some minor changes and an improved team by the middle of June.

[HokieRif]

4 hours ago, darwin22 said:

For everyone that was pleased (count me in the camp) with a winning record (17-12) in April, reality is starting to rear its UGLY head as this team offensively is HORRIBLE!  The April record, as others have noted, was skewed by going 6-1 against the Royals.

4-35 with the bases loaded this year speaks for itself.  I don't see any imminent signs of hope---a dangerous thing------with this team as it seems inevitable that Gray and Ryan will regress.  We've already seen that recently with Lopez.  Bullpen also showing signs of trouble with Jax & Lopez being very average over the last couple of weeks.

Nothing like another summer of mediocre baseball followed by "excuses" to explain a spiral below .500 by seasons end.

I was complaining about this after the opening series. I could see it then that we had a decent makeup on the mound, but hitting that would be leaving us want a lot more. For once we have a rotation that keep things together, but the margin for error is still very small because of how poorly the hitting can be. 

[Linus]

I love Nick Gordon. Not exactly sure why other than I love guys that overcome adversity. However when he came to bat with the bases loaded and Quantrill hadn’t thrown a ball near the plate for 15 minutes I was yelling at the TV to not do him any favors. Nick gets a 2-0 count and then swings at a ball at least 6” outside. Couldn’t believe it. 

[GNess]

Being realistic and keeping perspective day to day during a 162 game baseball season is a challenge. I understand the disappointment with the lack of offense over the first 30+ games. Expectations are a primary source of unhappiness, and we see that in play here on TD.

What is the actual status of the team rather than what was expected realistic or not?

1. Pitching ultimately wins championships - the SP is amongst Top 5-6 in MLB. The BP is decent and has a few quality arms and can be an area most readily added to via trade later in the season.

2. Batters performing near their statistical norms: Kepler, Buxton, Taylor, Solano, Castro, Polanco, Vasquez(?)

3. Batters performing below their statistical norms: Correa, Gallo, Miranda, Gordon.

4. Batters performing above their statistical norms: Jeffers(?)

So where does the improvement come from? In a highly successful season, a few players generally perform above their statistical norms - this could still happen for the 2023 Twins. Star players like Carlos Correa rarely tank for an entire season. It is reasonable to assume Correa will hit much better sooner rather than later.

5. Are there internal replacement options who could likely out-perform those above? Yes, Farmer, Lewis, Kirilloff could easily significantly out perform a number of players listed above.

Conclusion: The Twins certainly have the pieces as currently assembled on the 40 man roster to finish above .500, win the division and participate in postseason play with only a few players getting it going on offense and/or via internal replacements. This doesn't even take into account external additions.

Tough to watch them struggle on this road trip, but I remain optimistic...

[Aggies7]

Man, if the starting pitching ever falls off, even a little, this thing will be ugly

[Nine of twelve]

23 minutes ago, GNess said:

Tough to watch them struggle on this road trip, but I remain optimistic...

I find it helpful to remind myself that this is MLB, where winning 60% of your games is elite performance and winning 55% of your games will probably result in an AL Central championship and a postseason appearance.

[Nashvilletwin]

5 hours ago, #3Killer said:

Wow!!!! You are certainly a “true” fan. Sorry that my passionate support of the Twins since 1962 doesn’t qualify! 
my patience just ran out with this road trip. As a coach for 47 years, it is my understanding that it was my job to motivate the team and individuals, insist if every team members best effort, and put my players into a position where they have the opportunity to succeed. Any player that doesn’t buy into these basic expectations in all probability would be replaced by someone who gave this commitment. We have two player under “superstar” salary batting under or around .200!!!!  The team as a whole is about .220!!!! Is our hitting coach scheduling these slumping hitters for extra work? Are they being chewed out for poor plate discipline. Are we putting hitters out there day after day who have shown no batting ability but the “metrics “ say they “should” be successful??? Poor coaching. poor management, and players that appear that nothing more is expected if them. And then I am supposed to drive 250 miles and she’ll out a couple hundred dollars to watch this?????? No way!! Nothing drives me more insane than a “team” not doing what it takes to get it done!!! They are playing so far below their potential!!! This version of the Twins will be done by June!! 

I’m sorry if I offended you in some way. I certainly did not mean to do so.

But yes, you are correct, even passionate fans who watch every game (like myself - I’m a 150+ game guy per year) can be disgusted with the hitting. I was only trying to make the point that  some of us thought that the team would be especially light hitting this year - so we aren’t surprised by this. After all, did we really think Gallo, Solano, Martin, Kepler, etc. were going to be the answer at the plate? Are we that excited to tune in to watch that crew day in and day out? We traded the one player whom I and I’m sure others made sure we watched every AB last season (and I still tune in to admire his ABs as a Marlin). Correa and, sadly, Buxton don’t produce as compensated. But, it’s been my experience as a long time Minnesotan, that less passionate fans certainly will not invest themselves heavily in a such a team - unless maybe if the team is winning and they jump on the bandwagon -  and even passionate fans like you and I will become frustrated and tune out.

Your comments are perfectly spot on re getting more out of our players. I’ve written several times on these TD threads that Rocco’s number one job is to develop the young talent entrusted to him. It is terribly frustrating to see these talented kids fail to reach  their potential as ballplayers.  We have a great crew on the way and I fear that the likes of Lewis, Lee, Julien, Rodriguez, Wallner, Martin, Miller, etc., (not to mention the pitchers) will not end up where they belong given their talent and promise.

[Doctor Wu]

13 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Agreed and after watching him pitch today. I believe he threw a below average game. Worst 1 hitter I've seen in quite some time. 

I think a lot of people were underwhelmed by Quantrill's performance. Reading Rocco's postgame comments was interesting. I definitely got the feeling that he wasn't very impressed with Quantrill,  perhaps even more mystified why someone with such control issues could baffle the Twins' hitters so easily. 

[the_brute_squad]

The problem with the Twins rhymes with Small belly.

That, and those hideous new hats. 

[Riverbrian]

52 minutes ago, Doctor Wu said:

I think a lot of people were underwhelmed by Quantrill's performance. Reading Rocco's postgame comments was interesting. I definitely got the feeling that he wasn't very impressed with Quantrill,  perhaps even more mystified why someone with such control issues could baffle the Twins' hitters so easily. 

If I were to guess. I believe he knows that they have to bring the pitchers back into the zone for better pitches to hit.

If they keep swinging out of the zone... the pitchers are going to stay out of the zone. 

It's up to the players to stop doing that but we are into May now. We are now dealing with multiple slumps that have extended past 100 AB and they are still swinging out of the zone. 

100 Ab's needs a new name... because it is past a simple slump. We have reached the point of wondering if the front office is just gonna keep drawing water from the same well. 

[Whitey333]

Great article.  Keep it positive.  If anyone is going to the games this week I would advise plenty of coffee and caffeine pills to stay awake.  I still maintain that the last 2 now going on 3 years have been among the most boring, undisciplined, underperforming twins teams I have seen in  a long time.  All we get are excuses from management.  Let's see some results.

[John Belinski]

With the Twins not scoring runs it is time to think if a very good batter that plays everyday is worth more than a pitcher that pitches every 5 days?

I think a everyday good hitter is worth more wins than a pitcher that pitches every 5 days.

The Twins do lead baseball in one area and that is in most strikeouts. Both the manager and hitting coach have to do a better job working with hitters.  I did look up the Twins pitching coach and he is a younger person without a lot of experience and was not a good hitter in his short career. I think a hitting coach should have experience and a history of being a good hitter.

[jmlease1]

12 hours ago, Linus said:

I love Nick Gordon. Not exactly sure why other than I love guys that overcome adversity. However when he came to bat with the bases loaded and Quantrill hadn’t thrown a ball near the plate for 15 minutes I was yelling at the TV to not do him any favors. Nick gets a 2-0 count and then swings at a ball at least 6” outside. Couldn’t believe it. 

It probably wouldn't have mattered, but he did a poor job hustling out of the box on that double play ball. He's fast enough that he could have beaten that throw and it would have scored a run.

But it was a team effort in poor hitting.

Ump certainly had a wide zone; when Bremer is repeatedly commenting on it, you know it must be kinda bad; unfortunately we didn't have the CF angle to really see it on the broadcast. I've always wondered: does it help a guy like Quantrill more who isn't a big K pitcher to get extra strikes consistently 3-4 inches off the plate than a pitcher who is a strike out guy?

[JD-TWINS]

15 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

I believe your comment about lack of interest may not be that uncommon - particularly among those Twins fans who do not frequent the TD.  Several of us on this site predicted an overall light hitting team consisting of several somewhat transient players that would find it difficult to generate true enthusiasm.

This lack of interest excludes the more passionate, but much fewer in number, of us fans who might appreciate this year’s strategy of winning through outstanding pitching, mostly via our starting staff.

This strategy, however, relies on having a winning ball club to keep our renowned front running fan base with myriad other outdoor summer activities to pursue interested (and attending/watching!).  So far, that has been more or less the case.  Let’s hope we can keep that strategy working and more fans will become more invested as the summer progresses.  This seems like a likely scenario still.

Otherwise, a shift to Plan B (trade the transients and call up the prospects in August) might need to be implemented. 
 

 

The guy has watched his 2nd game of the year out of 35 games because of his disinterest. Seems disinterested in baseball - right?

We’re in first place with the lowest team BA in the league. We are at .220 as a team & MLB average is .248. CC is a problem that will get better……Kiriloff should help. Gordon has to get his act together with plate discipline or we should consider DFAing……..I’m Gordon’s biggest proponent (.279 BA - 28 doubles last year……just waiting for a change) but coming to the plate after a HBP, walk & walk……(your rock head teammate Miranda swings at ball to pop out after a pitch)………..first 2 pitches are balls to you & you swing at two balls (should be 100% RED light on 3rd pitch) to ground out & fail to get out of box clean, so it’s a double play. Really disappointing after recent XBH over previous 2 series.

Miranda needs an assignment to help him get it together.

They both seem to be way too anxious and very immature in their approach.

We’re in first place though with nowhere to go but up offensively.

[HokieRif]

2 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

The guy has watched his 2nd game of the year out of 35 games because of his disinterest. Seems disinterested in baseball - right?

We’re in first place with the lowest team BA in the league. We are at .220 as a team & MLB average is .248. CC is a problem that will get better……Kiriloff should help. Gordon has to get his act together with plate discipline or we should consider DFAing……..I’m Gordon’s biggest proponent (.279 BA - 28 doubles last year……just waiting for a change) but coming to the plate after a HBP, walk & walk……(your rock head teammate Miranda swings at ball to pop out after a pitch)………..first 2 pitches are balls to you & you swing at two balls (should be 100% RED light on 3rd pitch) to ground out & fail to get out of box clean, so it’s a double play. Really disappointing after recent XBH over previous 2 series.

Miranda needs an assignment to help him get it together.

They both seem to be way too anxious and very immature in their approach.

We’re in first place though with nowhere to go but up offensively.

This is what is honestly keeping me excited and interested.  I've tempered my expectations, but if we get our offense improved this could be one hell of a season. 

[MABB1959]

Is it negative to never expect this team to be contenders?  I want to be optimistic but it is not easy.

[OvertheHill]

1 hour ago, HokieRif said:

This is what is honestly keeping me excited and interested.  I've tempered my expectations, but if we get our offense improved this could be one hell of a season. 

Yeah I'm torn this way too. In the moment, it's exasperating watching these clueless plate appearances, yet I believe in the "math" that says they can only get better. I'm in that growing crowd of people that find this recent version of Twins baseball/roster construction nearly unwatchable. As it's been posted, why on earth would you ever throw a strike to most of these guys when they're so eager to help a pitcher out? 

[NotAboutWinning]

In this age of analytics, is there a stat that indicates "Baseball IQ"? Basically, an understanding of the game at a fundamental level and the ability & discipline to play good fundamental baseball. For instance, what will most likely score runs with bases loaded and 0 outs (hint, it is not a grand-slam).

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

first 2 pitches are balls to you & you swing at two balls

I agree with your overall sentiment... but it was one ball... Doesn't make your point less valid. I'm just pointing out that the 4th pitch of the AB... the one that he grounded into a double play on... that pitch was dead center in the zone. 

The third pitch tho'.... Yeah... it was way outside with the count 2-0. He definitely didn't need to help Quantrill out in that scenario. 

He should have been 3-0 after that pitch. Unless of course the ump rings him up on it like he was doing during the game. 

[jkcarew]

19 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I do not get WPA and never will Joey Gallo was 0 - 3 with two Ks but gets credit because he walked.  He is now on an 0 - 23 streak and watching his BA plummet back to his 160 level.  Give me a break, he added nothing to win probability.  The fact is, we are settling for mediocrity and making excuses.  No matter what it means, get Julien and anyone else that can make contact with the ball into this lineup. 

Huh? Gallo was 0-2 with 2 walks and 1 K. He reached base twice in a game where the entire club had 6 men reach.

Meanwhile, his OBP is still among the highest on the team. His K% is about the same as Buxton’s.

[bighat]

18 hours ago, stringer bell said:

 The offense will improve, it just has to. 

With all due respect, you wrote the same thing a month ago. Since April 8th, the Twins have been unable to score more than 3 runs in the following games, including the starting pitcher names: 

Michael Kopech (5.97 ERA)
Peyton Battenfield (Who?)
Logan Allen (Who?)
Cal Quantrill (4.09 ERA)
Jose Urquidy (5.05 ERA)
Hunter Brown (Rookie)
Dylan Cease (Fine)
Lucas Giolito (3.87 ERA)
Gerrit Cole (Fine)
Domingo German (4.35 ERA)
Trevor Williams (4.35 ERA)
Patrick Corbin (1-4 with a 5.17 ERA currently)
Brad Keller (4.67 ERA)

I suppose it has to get better in the sense that it can't get any worse. But I don't know how anyone can look at the futility of this offense and think "they'll be fine". 

[Blyleven2011]

3 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Great article.  Keep it positive.  If anyone is going to the games this week I would advise plenty of coffee and caffeine pills to stay awake.  I still maintain that the last 2 now going on 3 years have been among the most boring, undisciplined, underperforming twins teams I have seen in  a long time.  All we get are excuses from management.  Let's see some results.

I wish management  and the players would realize that the fans are frustrated and bored with the way they play the game ...

Is it worth spending money on bad entertainment  , Rocco stated he is happy with the way his players are performing  , he did not elaborate  if it was the pitching players or the lineup players   , the lineups  are terrible  , running bases again are not good  ...

Must be blinded by the light cause this is a terrible approach to just swinging for the fences  , singles , doubles , triples and walks can manufacture runs ...

We can't seem to get consecutive  hits in a row , cleveland did against Ryan on Sunday and they won the game  ...

I have a great passion for the game but it's difficult at times , especially  that they don't seem to fix the product to a  more exciting style of play  for the fans ,,, 

We have had some good bunts this year and it was exciting  ...

Go twins ...

[Blyleven2011]

16 minutes ago, bighat said:

With all due respect, you wrote the same thing a month ago. Since April 8th, the Twins have been unable to score more than 3 runs in the following games, including the starting pitcher names: 

Michael Kopech (5.97 ERA)
Peyton Battenfield (Who?)
Logan Allen (Who?)
Cal Quantrill (4.09 ERA)
Jose Urquidy (5.05 ERA)
Hunter Brown (Rookie)
Dylan Cease (Fine)
Lucas Giolito (3.87 ERA)
Gerrit Cole (Fine)
Domingo German (4.35 ERA)
Trevor Williams (4.35 ERA)
Patrick Corbin (1-4 with a 5.17 ERA currently)
Brad Keller (4.67 ERA)

I suppose it has to get better in the sense that it can't get any worse. But I don't know how anyone can look at the futility of this offense and think "they'll be fine". 

I sure miss our batting champ  and urshela's bat too , someone stated yesterday that urshela  is hitting .300 ... 

Almost lost Correa's bat to but managed to re- sign him but he's slumping along with Miranda and Gordon  , everyone I just mentioned hit 270 or better last season  ,

We need hitters that hit and get on base , we dont need everyone to be a homerun hitter ...