Yankees 10, Twins 4: Duffey Clobbered Again as Twins Drop Game One

[Otto von Ballpark]

For those who enjoy historical parallels, 10-4 was the exact score of 2019 ALDS Game 1. The go-ahead Yankee runs scored with Duffey on the mound in that game (although they were charged to Littell). Baldelli was questioned that game for his choice of bringing in Stashak in the 6th down 5-4.

[rwilfong86]

6 minutes ago, Jeff D. said:

It is not fast enough for me to see Professor Baldelli move to another school.....You are spot on!

The worst part is we all knew after Sunday's debacle what was gonna happen. 

[TopGunn#22]

Rocco could never figure out that he had a "closer" on his staff (Taylor Rogers), it was always bullpen by committee.   And his pulling Smeltzer, a soft tosser who doesn't need velo to be effective after 70 pitches or so are just a couple of my head scratchers for him.  He was a great manager when we were hitting 300+ HR's...but who wouldn't be.  He's never shown me the ability to "manufacture" a run here or there and his bullpen management has always been weak.

Honestly, aside from Dave Roberts (who does less with tons of resources as a manager) Rocco is a poor manager and  at best "just average."  Joe Maddon is available.  Think about that for a moment.  

[Whitey333]

Rocco's choice of Duffey in the seventh was a weird choice considering with the off day the bullpen was well rested.  That is why Baldelli baffles me as a major league manager.  Just doesn't use common sense.  As for his ejection, good for him.  I believe it wasn't so much the ball was or was not fouled.  I believe he was rightfully, and totally frustrated with the home plate umpires balls calling on Yankee hitters that were missed and should have been strikes.  That home plate umpire was terrible and was intimidated by the Yankee mystique.  He was brutal.  

[wsnydes]

Great teams differentiate themselves from good teams because they're able to take advantage of opportunities afforded to them.  I think that theme played out accordingly in this game.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

Heh, I like that in a paragraph that also mentions Josh Donaldson and Aaron Hicks, you reserve the description "former Twin" for Isiah Kiner-Falefa.

[mikelink45]

18 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Rocco's choice of Duffey in the seventh was a weird choice considering with the off day the bullpen was well rested.  That is why Baldelli baffles me as a major league manager.  Just doesn't use common sense.  As for his ejection, good for him.  I believe it wasn't so much the ball was or was not fouled.  I believe he was rightfully, and totally frustrated with the home plate umpires balls calling on Yankee hitters that were missed and should have been strikes.  That home plate umpire was terrible and was intimidated by the Yankee mystique.  He was brutal.  

I think he was ready to go home - he watched Duffey and Minaya walk the bases loaded and he waited as usual for too long.  With Duffey's record how could he call on him and worse how could he not have a quick hook?

[BeantownTwinsFan]

1 hour ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

For those who enjoy historical parallels, 10-4 was the exact score of 2019 ALDS Game 1. The go-ahead Yankee runs scored with Duffey on the mound in that game (although they were charged to Littell). Baldelli was questioned that game for his choice of bringing in Stashak in the 6th down 5-4.

Makes sense - was just thinking ‘this felt like a playoff game’ and I mean that in the worst way possible

[mikelink45]

I listened to the entire game -  punishment - and was going to wait for this posting to come up, but after another Yankee beat down I just had enough.  I watched Rocco get thrown out for a dumb argument, not one worth leaving the dugout for.  He should have left the dugout earlier before bringing in Duffey.  Our parade of BP arms must have really scared the Yankees.  

Unfortunately Sands is pitching because we have run out of starters so I excuse him, but the rest of the staff was all over the place.  If the umpires missed some calls the RP also missed some throws.  When you are all over the place it is a lot harder to concentrate on the zone.  I believe the Yankees pitchers had the same ump. 

So who do we trust in the BP?  Rogers (oops), Duran, maybe Alcala if he is back?  But the rest are just inning eaters who get lucky some times.  The thing is, if they are not lucky, pull them Rocco - they are only required to face three hitters, not give up three runs.

We need Arraez and I hope he is able to play, we need early season Buxton who was getting the MVP treatment and not the injured slumper.  Polanco needs to stay hot, Correa has to come back with a scorching bat and Miranda and Larnach need to get their bats going again.  Other than that and the fact we don't have our top three starters we should be fine.  It is only the Yankees. 

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, Dave Overlund said:

Guys I am starting to think we don't have a championship caliber bullpen after all! 

Cole Sands, Dylan Bundy and Chris Archer isn't going to get it done as a playoff rotation.

[smiglewski]

Baldelli said he still trusts Duffey... how!? He's given up 11 runs in his past 7 innings, including 3 HRs. He's SO bad. Inexcusably bad. The only saving grace is that we won't have to see him pitch in todays game, and hopefully not on Thursdays game.

 

[Squirrel]

15 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Cole Sands, Dylan Bundy and Chris Archer isn't going to get it done as a playoff rotation.

Joe Ryan, Sonny Gray, Bailey Ober and Josh Winder might. Seriously … I don’t blame Rocco for that. I do blame him for continuing to use Duffey in certain situations, but other than Smith (who has shown some spots recently) and Duran, the FO hasn’t given him enough to work with. But sheesh, at this point, move on from using Duffey at all when the game is tight, no matter the inning.

[USAFChief]

I have trouble understanding wanting Duran in the 7th inning of a game we trailed.

We don't have a good pen. From day one. That's not Rocco's fault. 

[Trov]

This is going to be an ugly series.  Our bottom 3 current starters versus their top 3 current starters.  I still cannot believe that "foul" call in Kepler at bat.  I mean if they want to say he swung okay, but to say that was foul, I mean it shows how bad some calls can be.  I felt the called balls and strikes were not bad last night, but that was terrible call.  I do not feel it made the difference in a game at least though. 

 

[stringer bell]

45 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Rocco's choice of Duffey in the seventh was a weird choice considering with the off day the bullpen was well rested.  

27 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

With Duffey's record how could he call on him and worse how could he not have a quick hook?

 

1) The Twins were behind the entire game and no ML manager uses his high-leverage bullpen arms when trailing in a game in June. Baldelli had already used. Minaya and Canó. I guess it was the experienced, but struggling Duffey or Megill for the seventh inning. 2) Baldelli has seen Duffey recover from rough spots before, particularly last year. I think he and Wes have as good a handle on how effective they can expect him to be going forward. 3)If you look back, Duffey retired the first two batters quickly and easily. One batter reached when a hopper got through the shift and the next AB was a walk—bring in another low-leverage guy with two on and two out? 
 

We are all too quick to give up on guys. Pitcher and hitters slump. I don’t know if Tyler Duffey is good enough any more to get out good major league hitters regularly, but he has in the past. If there’s not something physically wrong with Duffey, I would advocate his DFA, but if he’s on the team last night in the seventh inning was as good a time as any to have him pitch an inning. 

[Sparky55]

When I saw Rocco put Duffy in I couldn't believe it, I knew the game was over. Good Bye Duffster

[DJL44]

4 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

move on from using Duffey at all when the game is tight, no matter the inning.

I agree with this. I'm especially perplexed why he thought it was a good idea to use Duffey in back-to-back games.

[Squirrel]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

I agree with this. I'm especially perplexed why he thought it was a good idea to use Duffey in back-to-back games.

Well, not exactly back to back with a day off between, but that’s a minor quibble, and it is a question, why there and then. But the whole BP construction is problem no. 1, usage of that BP is no. 2

[mikelink45]

6 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

1) The Twins were behind the entire game and no ML manager uses his high-leverage bullpen arms when trailing in a game in June. Baldelli had already used. Minaya and Canó. I guess it was the experienced, but struggling Duffey or Megill for the seventh inning. 2) Baldelli has seen Duffey recover from rough spots before, particularly last year. I think he and Wes have as good a handle on how effective they can expect him to be going forward. 3)If you look back, Duffey retired the first two batters quickly and easily. One batter reached when a hopper got through the shift and the next AB was a walk—bring in another low-leverage guy with two on and two out? 
 

We are all too quick to give up on guys. Pitcher and hitters slump. I don’t know if Tyler Duffey is good enough any more to get out good major league hitters regularly, but he has in the past. If there’s not something physically wrong with Duffey, I would advocate his DFA, but if he’s on the team last night in the seventh inning was as good a time as any to have him pitch an inning. 

We have to disagree here.  The game was 5 - 4 - yes the Yankees were leading, but do you give up in the seventh inning.  Duffey might come back again, but this was potentially a winnable game.  At that point you shut down the Yankees if you have the arm to do it and try to manufacture a run in the next three innings. 

[USAFChief]

3 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

We have to disagree here.  The game was 5 - 4 - yes the Yankees were leading, but do you give up in the seventh inning.  Duffey might come back again, but this was potentially a winnable game.  At that point you shut down the Yankees if you have the arm to do it and try to manufacture a run in the next three innings. 

So tell me...who pitches the 7th, 8th, and 9th?

 

[stringer bell]

4 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I agree with this. I'm especially perplexed why he thought it was a good idea to use Duffey in back-to-back games.

There was a day off in between. The Twins got 3+ out of Sands and have Archer, who has only gone as much as 5 innings in one start and then Bundy, who has struggled against good offenses. Yes, the bullpen will pitch a lot of innings in the Yankee series.

When dividing the bullpen between high leverage and low, who gets high leverage? I would say Duran, Smith, Pagán, Jax and Thielbar. That is not exactly the Nasty Boys or a shutdown group, but it is better than Canó, Megill, Minaya and Duffey. 

[DJL44]

9 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

So tell me...who pitches the 7th, 8th, and 9th?

 

That's really the problem here. Almost no bullpen can give you 6 shutdown innings, plus they'll need at least 9 more innings from them in the next 2 games. I think I would have pitched Pagan instead of Duffey there but that still means they need someone to pitch at least one more inning and they still lose the game 5-4.

[Mike Sixel]

45 minutes ago, smiglewski said:

Baldelli said he still trusts Duffey... how!? He's given up 11 runs in his past 7 innings, including 3 HRs. He's SO bad. Inexcusably bad. The only saving grace is that we won't have to see him pitch in todays game, and hopefully not on Thursdays game.

 

What did you want him to say in public?

[mikelink45]

28 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

So tell me...who pitches the 7th, 8th, and 9th?

 

Jax/Pagan/Moran???  If we want to be playoff ready we need to have someone we can count on.

[Dman]

The Twins know they are losing this series.  They will try to set themselves up to win the Tampa series then hope to get some some guys back when they face the Guardians as that series will likely determine the season IMO.  If they can find a way to beat Cleveland back I think they will still have a chance.

If things go south in the Tampa series then I think the Twins will get reeled in and likely lose the division lead.  Seattle hasn't been a good place for the Twins to play and Arizona has a plucky team so they will need to get it together just to stay on top if things go well.

It is looking like all that pitching depth was smoke and mirrors.  Paddack out the rest of the season. Bundy looks really bad, Archer doesn't look great. Gray has been injured more than healthy. Ober has been injured a good chunk of the season.  Winder is out.  Ryan was out with Covid and is our only really good pitcher.  About the only bright spot has been Smeltzer.  I don't see how the Twins are going to get it done with the starting staff they have.

[joefish]

Tyler D' Fa (that's a long a)

Relieve us. If the fans feel dejected, imagine how his teammates must feel. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Dman said:

The Twins know they are losing this series.  They will try to set themselves up to win the Tampa series then hope to get some some guys back when they face the Guardians as that series will likely determine the season IMO.  If they can find a way to beat Cleveland back I think they will still have a chance.

If things go south in the Tampa series then I think the Twins will get reeled in and likely lose the division lead.  Seattle hasn't been a good place for the Twins to play and Arizona has a plucky team so they will need to get it together just to stay on top if things go well.

It is looking like all that pitching depth was smoke and mirrors.  Paddack out the rest of the season. Bundy looks really bad, Archer doesn't look great. Gray has been injured more than healthy. Ober has been injured a good chunk of the season.  Winder is out.  Ryan was out with Covid and is our only really good pitcher.  About the only bright spot has been Smeltzer.  I don't see how the Twins are going to get it done with the starting staff they have.

Smoke and mirrors? How many starting pitchers do you think a team has at any one time? They are down four starting pitchers.  

[Dman]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

Smoke and mirrors? How many starting pitchers do you think a team has at any one time? They are down four starting pitchers.  

I am just saying I thought we had more than enough starting pitching entering the season and now it seems to have evaporated.  That is all.

[USAFChief]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Smoke and mirrors? How many starting pitchers do you think a team has at any one time? They are down four starting pitchers.  

Only one of which, i believe, has ever thrown as much as 150 innings in any season, minors or majors (Gray).

Let's stop pretending this is incredibly bad luck. This is the pitching staff the FO designed. You can't, for example, put Bailey Ober in your rotation and think he's going to last the season. He's never done that, and they don't ask that from pitchers in the minors any more, so what to they expect?

[2wins87]

There's plenty of negativity around here so I'm not gonna pile on.

First off, the fact that Duffy was in the game is not exactly a sign of lots of trust from Baldelli (and come on, you can't actually expect him to go out to the media and say that one of his players sucks, that'd be a great way to lose the confidence of all of his players).  The guys that had pitched the previous innings were Minaya and Cano, who have not really inspired trust from anyone yet this season.

In the regular season, when the team is behind, Baldelli is going to go to his lower leverage relievers.  He's not alone, a lot of other managers use their relievers pretty similarly, even when their team is close behind like it was last night.

It makes sense to keep the best guys ready for close leads and tie games in the future.  It would be a lot worse to find yourself with a one run lead tomorrow and to only have your unproven and untrustworthy guys available.  I do think there are times to make minor exceptions though, and yesterday could have been one.  The way the offense is was battling back and the very uninspiring pitching matchups to come did make me think he should have at least tried a bit harder to keep it close.  I would have considered going to more medium leverage guys first.  If they couldn't keep it close then the mop up guys would have still been available to close out an ugly loss.  It's tough with such a short start though, they really don't have the depth not to use someone pretty shaky with that many innings to cover.

I will also say that the ejection was lame.  It seems like maybe the idea was to fire up the team a little bit but Baldelli is just not that kind of manager.  He really didn't have much of an argument to make after he had chosen to use guys that struggled with control.  There were probably as many strikes called below Judge's knees as there were missed calls on strikes by Twins pitchers.  I didn't really like it and I don't think it inspired anyone.