Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account

Recommended Posts

Twins Daily Contributor
Posted

Bad starting pitching derailed much of the 2010s for the Minnesota Twins. They brought in Derek Falvey to create a reliable pipeline of young pitching, and this week has brought confirmation that the project is succeeding.

 

Image courtesy of © Brad Rempel-USA TODAY Sports

Most people think of Austin Martin as the prize for the Twins in the 2021 José Berríos trade. While Martin was certainly the headliner of the deal, Simeon Woods Richardson was also a highly-touted, top-100 prospect at the time, and someone about whom the Twins were excited. At the time of his acquisition, Woods Richardson was just 20 years old and already pitching in Double-A, aggressively moving through the Toronto minor-league system.

After arriving in Minnesota, though, Woods Richardson saw his prospect status dip, with a drop in velocity and (consequently) strikeout rate. That was followed by a terrible year on the mound in 2023, wherein the righthander posted a 4.91 ERA in 113 ⅔ innings. Fans were starting to wonder whether he was better suited for the bullpen, or if he was even long for the roster at all.

Coming into the 2024 season, though, Woods Richardson and the coaching staff were bullish. The velocity numbers in Spring Training were up from 89-90 MPH the previous year to 93-94 MPH, after a tweak to his arm slot gave Woods Richardson the extra boost that had been missing. 

Woods Richardson started the season in Triple-A, but after a poor start from fifth starter Louie Varland, the new and improved hurler was thrust into MLB action. In the short time since, Woods Richardson has been nothing short of incredible. In four starts, he has allowed just four earned runs in 20 ⅔ innings, with a 21/5 strikeout-to-walk ratio. The Twins have recorded a win in every appearance.

The most impressive outing from the 23-year-old came on Monday night against Seattle. The Twins were coming off their first loss in nearly two weeks, and Woods Richardson drew the start against perennial Cy Young Award candidate, Luis Castillo. Woods Richardson twirled a gem, striking out the first five batters he faced and tossing six shutout innings while only allowing one hit on the night.

The increased velocity has certainly contributed to his better performance. In MLB, the mid-90s is a night-and-day difference from the high 80s, and can make the difference between a mid-rotation starter and a minor-league washout.

Apart from pure velocity, what makes Woods Richardson such an intriguing prospect is the velocity differential between his pitches, which really mess with a batters’ timing. Successful pitchers want to have a large velocity difference between their fastball and their curveball and changeup, while many have a small velocity difference between their fastball and their slider. Woods Richardson checks all of those boxes.

His fastball and changeup have a 9.9-MPH difference (86th percentile in MLB) on average, and his fastball and curveball have an 18.2-MPH difference (92nd percentile). His slider, on the other hand, only has a 5.5-MPH difference, which is in the 6th percentile. These are big gaps on the pitches that depend most heavily on that characteristic, and a small one on the pitch where more power is a good thing and movement makes the difference.

Woods Richardson is throwing the ball harder than he ever has before, and constantly keeping batters off-balance by tunneling his fastball/slider and demonstrating massive velocity differences with his two offspeed pitches.

What has gone into Woods Richardson getting to this point, as a legit starting pitcher in the Majors?

“A lot of work.” he said after winning his duel against Castillo on Monday night. “It’s really easy to get sidetracked … but at the end of the day, the best players in this game are still working every day. Putting (my) head down and trying to be the best version of myself is what I’m trying to do.”

His hard work has paid massive dividends for the Twins thus far in 2024.

After the team failed to build sufficient starting pitching depth this offseason, Varland’s poor start put them in a tough position, needing to rely on Woods Richardson so early. Strong performance from him was imperative, as the Twins really don’t have any other options on the depth chart. The campaign that Woods Richardson is putting together has been nothing short of a season-saver.

Between scouting and player development, it's now fair to say that the pipeline is flowing. It took a few years to get there, but seeing what Falvey has done with guys like Joe Ryan and Bailey Ober in the rotation and Jhoan Duran and Griffin Jax in the bullpen has laid the foundation, and now, with Woods Richardson pitching like we all hoped he would when he was acquired in 2021, the value of that new infrastructure is shining through.


View full article

Posted

I will say this read like a article where somebody requested, go write an article and try to convince the reader that the Twins have a pitching pipeline.

I really like Joe Ryan, the Twins traded for a major league ready starter who at times has been amazing and at times not. It was an amazing trade regardless of how Ryan's future goes. But it is weird to include him in the pipeline topic and leave out Gray, Lopez and Maeda (maybe even Paddack) for example both were also traded for and both were also MLB ready pitchers.

To be honest I generally don't include relief pitchers in teams pipeline, mostly because the best relief pitchers are former starters that didn't make it for whatever reason, then harness a couple of those pitches into much shorter times and succeed and generally every team does this to different levels of success. 

I really like and hope SWR continues to improve and becomes a main stay in the Twins rotation for years to come. But lets be real here, he has faced Det, White Sox (2) and Seattle, 3 of the worst 8  hitting teams in the league, lets let him settle in before anointing him a MLB starter ( I would hope we would have learned that from Varland)

IMO - Ober is the starting pitching pipe line as of 5/9/24, with that said this FO has done a pretty good job of bringing in starter pitchers have having them do well. (minus 2022)

Posted

I agree with a previous poster.  It's really disingenuous to pic and choose starting pitching pipeline successes.  Ober is probably the best example of a true pipeline suc ess.  The rest were obtained via trades.  That hardly qualifies for a pipeline.  Using that " logic" we can therefore also conclude the Mahle trade subtracted from that pipeline.  After all we gave up two high prospects for him that are now regulars on the Reds.  Anyway this pipeline is still nonexistent in my opinion.

Posted

I'm always a little confused why some folks identify Falvey as a guy who was hired to develop a "pitching pipeline". It just doesn't stand up and also doesn't really matter. As TwinsDr2021 states, Ober is it thus far for Falvey. If people want to pursue the idea it might be useful to compare The drafting, signing, and development of pitchers within the AL Central and across baseball. Personally I think one of the main roles of the PBO (Falvey) is putting together a competitive team. The record indicates that Falvey has done that. However, almost any way one looks at past or current Twins starting pitchers in the Falvey era the idea of a "pitching pipeline" where the Twins sign and develop starting pitchers needs to be put to rest. I'm pretty happy to have Pablo Lopez starting for the Twins even if he wasn't signed and developed by the Twins.

Verified Member
Posted

I am going to agree with others and say it premature to call SWR a success this early in.  I mean he owns 6.08 ERA in AAA this year so he hasn't been dominant everywhere.  Don't get me wrong I am super pumped by how well he is pitching at the MLB level and he has really helped the Twins get back in the race.  I hope he can keep this up, but adjustments will be made and we'll have to wait and see how he does once they are made.  

The Twins might be on the way to a pitching pipeline but right now Ober is the only real success story who was home grown.  We are still waiting on Varland and SWR to some degree.  It is hard to include pen arms as every org has a decent level of success with those types of arms.  Even Terry Ryan's group did well with developing those types of arms.

Maybe Varland and SWR work out long term.  Maybe Festa and Raya join them at some point.  There is a lot of  potential arms at High A right now that could be difference makers and If Canterino and Prielipp ever get healthy maybe they can be impact arms or maybe they will end up as just pen arms as well.  At any rate it still doesn't seem like much of a pipeline to me at this point in time,

Posted

People have different definitions of a pitching pipeline. Some only count players drafted by the Twins who moved up through the system. Others will include trades (Luis Arraez came up through the system and was traded for Pablo Lopez and then Julien took over at 2B). Some don't count the bullpen and others do. 

Posted

IDK why we should care if the "pipeline" comes from drafting or trades, especially trades for prospects.  Obviously, there are teams like the Brewers that hit on starting pitching.  However, most teams that have developed great pitching have done so by drafting part of their staff and also making savvy trades for unestablished players, especially mid-market teams.  Some of these players are A-Ballers and who have already made the ML level but have not proven themselves yet.  Is there contribution less meaningful if they were not drafted?

The 23 Rays drafted 1 of their top 10 pitchers by WAR.   The 17 Guardians had 9 pitchers that produced 1.5 WAR or more.  Four of the top 5 in WAR (Kluber / Carrasco / Bauer / Clevinger) were acquired as prospects and the 4th most WAR was from Andrew Miller who was acquired in trade.  Only 3 were drafted.  We would all like to see more drafted players succeed but I won't enjoy Joe Ryan any less because he was acquired in trade.

The one I really don't understand is not including RPs because they are failed SPs.  Is Duran not a great asset because he did not work out as a SP?  Should we not be excited to have 6 years of Griffin Jax because he is not starting.  What percentage of RPs are failed starters?  The pipeline producing RPs, failed SPs or not, is far more valuable than buying them in free agency or trading for established RPs.  The only other alternative is waiver wire pick-ups.  

Posted

When I read headline, was sure it would elicit "What pipeline" comments. That is definitely debatable, but a definite improvement from previous FO. Back to SWR, pulling for him. He seems to have put in the work and Twins development system has helped him make necessary changes.  

Verified Member
Posted

An actual pipeline should have 4-6 contenders in AA -AAA knocking on the door.  Thankfully Varland/SWR are adding up to one. Festa & Raya aren't ready. After them, the cupboard is bare!

It would be nice to trade excess pitching for a slugging outfielder for once.

We seem to have a never ending supply of 2B/SS to trade for damaged pitching however.  

Quit drafting infielders! 

5 tool Sluggers like Jenkins, check.

Pitchers - we've found some late round guys, but we need to find some first round gems.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

I agree with a previous poster.  It's really disingenuous to pic and choose starting pitching pipeline successes.  Ober is probably the best example of a true pipeline suc ess.  The rest were obtained via trades.  That hardly qualifies for a pipeline.  Using that " logic" we can therefore also conclude the Mahle trade subtracted from that pipeline.  After all we gave up two high prospects for him that are now regulars on the Reds.  Anyway this pipeline is still nonexistent in my opinion.

There's really three parts to a "pipeline" -- drafts/sign and develop, trades and free agent signings,

For example, Cleveland used trades as part of the "pipeline" Falvey was considered to be a part of. Just as SWR was a AA pitcher when sent to the Twins as part of a deadline deal, Corey Kluber was a AA pitcher when he went from San Diego to Cleveland as part of a deadline.

Note that I'm not saying SWR is as good as Kluber. I'm not saying he'll become as good as Kluber. I'm just saying that the thought of any team developing an entire "pitching pipeline" through the draft/sign and develop method isn't very realistic.

Posted

It’s a little early to believe that Falvey has created a pitching pipeline to the majors. SWR has shown dramatic improvement so far this year and has been a godsend. Hopefully he continues on that trajectory. But I don’t see a lot of minor league starters in the system who look like top of the rotation starters, which you need at the ML level to be a serious contender. Festa is the one who considered the most ready, but he has been inconsistent. Raya never pitches more than four innings for some reason that is never explained. Who else from High A and above looks like a top flight starter? 

Posted
1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I really like Joe Ryan, the Twins traded for a major league ready starter who at times has been amazing and at times not. It was an amazing trade regardless of how Ryan's future goes. But it is weird to include him in the pipeline topic and leave out Gray, Lopez and Maeda (maybe even Paddack) for example both were also traded for and both were also MLB ready pitchers.

Joe Ryan was a question mark if he'd even stick in a major league rotation when they traded for him. 14th in the Rays organization and below multiple pitchers who have not sniffed the majors.

Yes, he was in AAA, but the Twins should definitely get credit for developing him into a #2/3 and helping him to find what were previously elusive secondaries to complement the funky fastball. 

Posted

I think calling it a “pipeline” by most people’s definition is probably a stretch, but as stated by others here, I really don’t care.  They have managed to put together the best top to bottom rotation that the Twins have had in a long time and the team is winning and being successful.  They have a couple of pitchers that they drafted originally, and several pitchers that they had the good sense to trade for.  That they had the capital to trade is probably something else that can be considered for inclusion in the “pipeline.”  If people want to argue about semantics, that’s fine, but for me, I would rather judge the team by its results, and those have been really solid.  

Verified Member
Posted

It's weird how people discount pitchers traded for as part of the pipeline. Look at what Cleveland has done to get all of their great line of pitchers -- a bunch of them were not drafted by the organization. Pitching is pitching, it doesn't matter if it came via the draft or trade, both of them involve identifying arms you think are good and can work with and then getting them to new heights. Lopez is a great example of the pitching pipeline working exactly as it's supposed to -- identify a guy who's good but not great, work with him on a few tweaks, and now he's a damn ace. It's just bizarre to discount that as success since they didn't draft him.

Posted

As mentioned by others it doesn't matter how the player was acquired, if the team even just put the finishing touches on his development, they get credit for that in my book. 

My criteria? Am I enjoying watching Twins pitchers perform now more than I did during Terry Ryan's tenure? Absolutely. 

Edit: ninja'd by JDubs who said it better

Posted

No pipeline, Varland proved he was not ready and SWR took his place.  Who is next.  A pipeline needs to have pitchers being pushed from below.  Give credit to the FO for some good trades, but we are trying to forget all the sign and fail pitchers of the last few years. 

Gray is doing great for St Louis, Kenta Maeda not so good for Detroit, Mahle has his usual position on the IL.  Other than Ober the best minor leaguers from the Twins draft so far are Gil with the Yankees and Tyler Wells with Baltimore.  We can also add Cano with Baltimore and Graterol with the Dodgers. 

Luckily we do not have the list of losers that we previously signed to fill the slots, but if SWR slips, Varland does not regain his status - who is next on the pipeline and can they actually throw 100 pitches in a game?  Sorry, we only do 90 now.

Posted

Part of developing pitching depth (and any positional depth really) is identifying players that are underperforming in other organizations, getting them by trade or signing, and getting more out of them

I believe the way they handled Sonny Grey got just about everything they could out of him.  Ryan's growth, Duran pivoting to a reliever... Many pitchers have improved or seen better days with the Twins than other organizations.  There has to be credit given there.

Twins Daily Contributor
Posted

From the OP:

Strong performance from him was imperative, as the Twins really don’t have any other options on the depth chart

 

Between scouting and player development, it's now fair to say that the pipeline is flowing. 

 

One would think if "the pipeline" was flowing, there'd be options. 

Posted

Pitching has to be assembled multiple ways. Acquiring young pitchers and completing their development (inc. at the MLB level) is obviously part of any pitching 'pipeline'. Looking only at the draft is a more limited exercise and often requires a long wait to properly assess. 

Another way to look at it - if this doesn't count as a "pipeline," then why should anyone care about that idea anymore? The goal is to win baseball games not have the most prospects listed on the rankings. 

Posted
13 minutes ago, wabene said:

My criteria? Am I enjoying watching Twins pitchers perform now more than I did during Terry Ryan's tenure? Absolutely. 

THIS.  A thousand times this.  I remember watching the Twins pitchers closely in the Terry Ryan era, but usually just to see when the blowup would happen and how ridiculous it would get.  We usually had a decent pitcher or two but there were some pretty terrible players pitching as our fourth or fifth starter EVERY year.  It was painful.  Watching pitchers will never be completely pain free, but it is certainly better around the Twins than it used to be.  It’s much better thinking that a game might be won 3-2 or 2-1 rather than knowing we had better score at least 5 or 6 runs to even have a chance.  

Posted

Unfortunately I'm not so sure we have a "pitching pipeline". Sure SWR has looked good,but it's only been three starts. Wait until teams hd e a scouting report on him first before declaring him a success. Look what happened with Varland. This team is one injury in the rotation away from trotting out Randy Dobnak or signing a Dallas Keuchal type. Festa and Raya haven't looked great this year in their VERY short starts..

Posted

On the one hand, the front office identified Ryan and SWR and to a lesser extent Lopez and Paddack - both of whom were already established...

They can take credit for Ober and Jax...

So it isn't all bad.

But, on the flip side - trading for Mahle and Lopez have bit this team in the ass and will wind up setting the Twins back by more than a few years when the dust completely settles. You can certainly argue that if they drafted and/or developed young pitcher better than they have, they don't need to be so aggressive in trading for an injury-riddled pitcher and a reliever who had a limited track record of success.

Won't kill them for the Gil trade - he needs a ton of work and is extremely wild and Wells has some injury issues to work through.

 

Posted
32 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

IDK why we should care if the "pipeline" comes from drafting or trades, especially trades for prospects.  Obviously, there are teams like the Brewers that hit on starting pitching.  However, most teams that have developed great pitching have done so by drafting part of their staff and also making savvy trades for unestablished players, especially mid-market teams.  Some of these players are A-Ballers and who have already made the ML level but have not proven themselves yet.  Is there contribution less meaningful if they were not drafted?

The 23 Rays drafted 1 of their top 10 pitchers by WAR.   The 17 Guardians had 9 pitchers that produced 1.5 WAR or more.  Four of the top 5 in WAR (Kluber / Carrasco / Bauer / Clevinger) were acquired as prospects and the 4th most WAR was from Andrew Miller who was acquired in trade.  Only 3 were drafted.  We would all like to see more drafted players succeed but I won't enjoy Joe Ryan any less because he was acquired in trade.

The one I really don't understand is not including RPs because they are failed SPs.  Is Duran not a great asset because he did not work out as a SP?  Should we not be excited to have 6 years of Griffin Jax because he is not starting.  What percentage of RPs are failed starters?  The pipeline producing RPs, failed SPs or not, is far more valuable than buying them in free agency or trading for established RPs.  The only other alternative is waiver wire pick-ups.  

Caring here the pipeline comes from, is that what people are saying or what you are reading into? I based my comments off the article, which IMO is trying to say this FO is producing pitchers though the minor leagues (since that is the players listed). Joe Ryan pitched 9 innings in the Twins minor league system and stepped into the rotation for good after that (The Twins should get credit for that)  I give the FO major props for the trade, it was an amazing trade. IMO isn't a whole lot different than Gray, Maeda, Lopez, and Paddack, which are also turning into or was a great trade. Last year and this year the FO has done a incredible job of filling the rotation and I don't care where they came from. I don't think anybody is expecting the Twins rotation to be completely homegrown or even pitchers like Duran and SWR who where acquired as minor league players, but I also think those two things are what people expect when you are talking about a pipeline.

As for relief pitchers isn't that the minimum expectation of every front office, sure there may not be many as good as Duran or there is, that is probably for a different conversation, but there are RP like Jax all over the major leagues.

I am not complaining about what this FO has done to fill a pitching staff or how they have done it, but this article wasn't about that it was about The Latest Testament to the Minnesota Twins Pitching Pipeline, which in 2024 could be considered mis-information.

Posted

I'll add this - the front office at least has a 'plan' when it comes to pitchers - find controllable arms, make the proper adjustments when needed and plug them into the rotation - Ordorizzi, Maeda, Lopez, Gray, Paddack - in theory, its worked - but eventually the cupboard's bare and it becomes harder to make those trades. Eventually, they need to hit it big with the draft and/or international signings.

Posted

The Twins have spent a majority of their recent high draft picks on hitters, and it's hard to argue with those results given the young talent on the team and that which has been traded away to bolster the pitching.

Folks who are concerned with a pipeline strictly being "homegrown" might point to teams like Seattle or Cleveland having 3 or 4 starters that were drafted by the team. But what is the state of those team's homegrown bats? I count 2 young homegrown hitters from the pool of both teams - Julio Rodriguez and Steven Kwan.

It's just a tradeoff. The Twins have put most of their draft capital into hitting, and they've done very well developing those players. They've also developed a type - late round pitchers who lack velocity and they think they can get more out of them. We'll see how it goes going forward, but there is a lot to like in the system from later round pitchers, which maximizes the talent you can acquire in the draft if you go for hitting first and pitching late. 

Posted

Drafting high on pitchers are very risky, IMO it's much more secure letting others start to develop them then filter out those who can succeed & we can tweak. IMO SWR is not truly part of the pipeline. We have seen limited success in the pipeline but have shown very good ability to tweak those who we bring in. I've had faith in SWR not only in his stuff but his drive to constantly adapt & improve. SWR has looked very good so far in the MLB but there'll come a time when the hitters will get to know him. Here I have faith that he'll eventually adjust & continually to do so to become a good SP.

Posted

The Twins did not "develop" Joe Ryan. He's been largely the same pitcher as he was when they got him. He was a MLB-ready pitcher with an excellent fastball and questionable breaking/offspeed stuff. He's the same as he was. The Twins have tinkered here and there with Ryan, changing his pitch mix, and it usually takes scouting reports a couple months to catch up to whatever the Twins added. Then batters tee off on Ryan. That's been the historical M.O. Maybe this year's tinkering will work out?

The Twins may have stumbled into a recipe for success with SWR, but it took them years to get it done on a pitcher who was acquired and was thought to be near MLB ready at the time. If Woods-Richarson is able to fully develop into a mid-rotation pitcher, the Twins will get some credit there.

Cleveland was known for great pitching, and while that pitching didn't necessarily come from a draft/development pipeline model, young, effective, cost controlled starting pitching was the hallmark of the franchise, and it doesn't take a genius to connect the dots. The Twins' front office had been relatively successful at developing position players. Kepler, Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Polanco, and Hicks were all previous regime draft/signings who had developed into MLB players. The Twins had not been successful at developing pitchers post 2006's Francisco Liriano. SPs Gibson and Berrios came from Smith/Ryan as well, but Berrios wasn't ready yet and Gibson never developed into the ace the organization and fans hoped to see. Pretty thin pickings. Pitching had been the reason the Twins had been struggling. 

There are ways to be competitive without a draft/development pitching pipeline, but for a small or mid market team, controllable, relatively inexpensive starters is required. You can trade for MLB ready guys (Joe Ryan) or you can trade for prospects and finish them (Woods Richardson) or develop them (Duran). The problem with the approach is the risk tolerance. High ceiling starting pitching prospects are extremely expensive so if your organization isn't successful at developing them, you burn all your prospect/player capital quickly, and in order to maintain your team, your payroll skyrockets to levels which cannot be sustained (see 2024 Twins).

As of right now, there is ONE SINGLE MLB caliber starting pitcher Falvey's regime has developed in 7 years on the job. Bailey Ober. Unsustainable.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund
The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund

You all care about this site. The next step is caring for it. We’re asking you to caretake this site so it can remain the premier Twins community on the internet.

×
×
  • Create New...