What's Left in Pitching Free Agency for the Twins?

[DJL44]

10 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

As for Nick Pivetta...as I said, how does that help the Twins?

If you don't think Pivetta's a better pitcher then DeSclafani, then I guess I can't convince you. It seems pretty obvious to me. He's consistently produced 2.5 WAR per season over the last 3 seasons.

[Craig Arko]

I’d consider Syndergaard or Odorizzi on milb contracts with opt-outs.

[tony&rodney]

I understand that a large number of people on Twins Daily wanted the Twins to sign a free agent pitcher this offseason. They would sign any of the guys mentioned to minor league contracts to hold in AAA in case of an injury. The names mentioned are not going to sign those contracts or it seems extremely unlikely. Thus it is a done deal, over. 

[Swaggy21]

Yep you are right, Vince velasquez and Brad Keller are way better than the former cy young and best pitcher in the league. This guy shows insane talent and if yougo on youtube and watch him pitch recently. However here in Minnesota we love 6 ERA's way more than signing a good pitcher who got framed for something he didn't do. Makes sense.

[Fatbat]

Keller and/or Syndergaard on a minor league deal would work. Low risk, high reward.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

I am against that. The Twins have plenty of minor league depth in AAA. Varland, Headrick, Canterino, Festa, Dobnak is a full rotation. They need upside, not a warm body.

I'm not talking about  warm bodies but desperate viable contributers. But I agree we have plenty of in-house depth.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, TSMN said:

Ignore Bauer, at the league minimum, but bring up Rich Hill and Clevinger? I wish the Polads would sell to someone who's actually interested in winning another WS.

2023 - Clevinger …..131 innings ……9-9 with a poor White Sox team …….. 3.71 ERA …….not fake news!

Clubhouse mesh??

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TSMN said:

Ignore Bauer, at the league minimum, but bring up Rich Hill and Clevinger? I wish the Polads would sell to someone who's actually interested in winning another WS.

Welcome! I see you have recently joined, made your first post, and have -2 reputation. Good job! Kidding aside, welcome to the zoo!

[Mark G]

20 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

I’d consider Syndergaard or Odorizzi on milb contracts with opt-outs.

I would too, if either one was a better long term option than whoever it is on the 40 man that has to go to make it work.  I would have to make that decision before I sign anyone else to a MLB contract.  As much as I want to upgrade this year if at all possible, I am just not sure who to risk on our current 40 man.  But it is worth pondering, I guess.  

[Otaknam]

The Twins are finally poised for a strong playoff run and the Pohlads say no on acquiring a starter, except maybe from the scrap heap? I’m hoping for a one year contract for Montgomery or Snell. Maybe take a flyer on Keller or Syndergard, but the rest? No thanks. 

[jmlease1]

It's not a very inspiring list. Lot of guys who look like they are washed up (Grienke, Cueto, Keuchel) or are coming off significant injuries/haven't seemingly bounced back from a significant injury (Syndergaard, Odorizzi, Boyd, Velasquez, Clevinger) plus the ancient wonder of Rich Hill.

On a minor league contract? Some of these guys might fit. but if Desclafani isn't ready by opening day I'd rather have Varland than anyone on this list.

Syndergaard or Odorizzi probably have the best chance to get it back together, but I'm sure they both want MLB deals. I don't think I'd give it to them. (the less said about Clevinger the better, IMHO)

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

We should ignore if the allegations had any veracity?  Relly, we should ignore the facts if he was falsely accused?  

Usually where there is smoke there is fire.  He is not worth the disruption if there are character issues but to banish him based on accusation without even considering the merit of the allegations is just not right.

This is clearly not what was being said. Regardless of the allegations, the Twins do not appear interested in bringing him in. Nothing about ignoring whether or not he was falsely accused. 

Not everything has to explode into a culture war. 

[DJL44]

7 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

I’m hoping for a one year contract for Montgomery or Snell.

That won't happen. Both pitchers already have better offers than that.

[TopGunn#22]

I think DJL44 makes some fair points.  Falvey should know Clevinger quite well.  If he signs Clevinger, I can accept that.  I also don't think DJL44 was being "snide" when he mentioned taking Kirby out of the Twins HOF.  Puckett was accused of some truly awful stuff.  Sadly, he passed away and with him all that stuff.  I just try not to be so judgemental nowadays.  Being forgiving is a tough thing to do with some of the stuff going on, but it IS a virtue and I make an effort.  I prefer to remember the "good" Kirby Puckett.  

Clevinger is a pitcher who has the talent to make a difference.  He's better than DeSclafani.  And while Nick said "don't bother to bring him up" the Twins couldn't do better than a major league minimum contract with incentives for one year of Trevor Bauer.  I think either Bauer or Clevinger are the only difference makers in this group and Falvey knows BOTH very well.  That he hasn't moved on either is probably all the answer we need.  BUT...that was before DeSclafani's "situation."

I don't like hearing about DeSclafani having this issue already, but it's not a total shock either.  I'm really quite fine with Varland, Canterino and Festa being the depth.  But with the Twins flush with the Balley money for 2024, they certainly have the ability to sign someone to add one more "major league" caliber depth arm.  

Like I said in an earlier post, I'm content to sail into this season with what we have.  But MY expectation is that if this season goes well for the Twins and they seem positioned to make a significant run at the World Series, I'm hoping the Pohlad family will FINALLY make a major move at the trade deadline to get us over the hump.  When your greatest deadline acquisition is the immortal Shannon Stewart, you don't have a very high bar to clear there.  Don Baylor was a shadow of the player he had been when we added him in 1987.  

 

[Fatbat]

31 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I'm not talking about  warm bodies but desperate viable contributers. But I agree we have plenty of in-house depth.

Even if they sign another pitcher, we MIGHT need someone to eat up innings on 15 starts IF everyone in AAA fails when they are called up.  What are the odds? Gotta be close to zero.

[DJL44]

16 minutes ago, TopGunn#22 said:

MY expectation is that if this season goes well for the Twins and they seem positioned to make a significant run at the World Series, I'm hoping the Pohlad family will FINALLY make a major move at the trade deadline to get us over the hump.  When your greatest deadline acquisition is the immortal Shannon Stewart, you don't have a very high bar to clear there.  Don Baylor was a shadow of the player he had been when we added him in 1987.  

1 minute ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I also think that the Twins are holding $ to see what first-half attendance looks like and where they are in the standings at the break and then may consider more of a block buster deal for a playoff-caliber starter that may require them to take on additional salary.

That will happen right after Charlie Brown kicks that football.

[CRF]

The only guy that I'd possibly take a flyer on, is Lorenzen. No way do I want Odo, or Hill back here. Thor is pretty much done. Other than Lorenzen, I'd roll with what we've already got in house. 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I like Varland, SWR and Canterino all more. Festa eventually too, and Dobnak more than most on this list.

I think depth wise they are ok. When they add a pitcher, I want it for the front of the rotation 

Thanks for reminding me of Dobnak!

Hopefully he'll get a chance to cross the river. That there's one wide river to cross...

[Fire Dan Gladden]

What does it say about how the Twins view of their AAA pitchers that they felt they needed to bring in DeSclafani to begin with?

Yes, home fans tend to overvalue their prospects.  Not just in Minnesota.  Fans need to be open to the possibility that there is not a lot faith (current faith) that the AAA pitching prospects are MLB ready.

There are a few FA SP out there that would improve this team.  Even lower end guys like Odorizzi is a step up.  Short of a MiLB prove-it contract, nothing will happen here.  I would rather they make another trade. 

[Major League Ready]

29 minutes ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

This is clearly not what was being said. Regardless of the allegations, the Twins do not appear interested in bringing him in. Nothing about ignoring whether or not he was falsely accused. 

Not everything has to explode into a culture war. 

The post I responded stated ... "Clevinger was being investigated due allegations of domestic abuse a year or two ago. Regardless of the claim's veracity, that's not someone the Twins are interested in bringing into the clubhouse, and I don't blame them."

It's not what everyone is saying but the post I responded to states this quite clearly.  How does "regardless of the claim's veracity" not ignore the possibility he was falsely accused?  Let's replace veracity with a synonym like Truthfulness or accuracy.  Regardless of the truthfulness of the statement does not ignore if he was falsely accused?

[chpettit19]

Brad Keller on a minor league deal simply because he's still "young" and he's shown he's a talented kid. I don't know anything about his arm problems so that'd be another factor.

Thor on a minor league deal to transition to the pen and see if they can get his velo back up in short stints.

Lorenzen is intriguing as a swing man. Lorenzen vs DeSclafani is actually an interesting debate, but I'd assume he gets more than the Twins are willing to pay and they can't move DeSclafani at this point even though he's very cheap at this point with 2 other teams paying most of his deal.

[Squirrel]

23 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

What does it say about how the Twins view of their AAA pitchers that they felt they needed to bring in DeSclafani to begin with?

Yes, home fans tend to overvalue their prospects.  Not just in Minnesota.  Fans need to be open to the possibility that there is not a lot faith (current faith) that the AAA pitching prospects are MLB ready.

There are a few FA SP out there that would improve this team.  Even lower end guys like Odorizzi is a step up.  Short of a MiLB prove-it contract, nothing will happen here.  I would rather they make another trade. 

I don’t think the Twins traded FOR DeSclafani. I think he was part of the deal, and I don’t think he was the primary part but did fill a need, sort of. We knew from the beginning they weren’t going to make a big free agent splash but do wish they could have made a Lopez-like trade. What’s left on the market at this point is a pass for me.

[Riverbrian]

I will not speculate on player issues outside the clubhouse. I will not speculate on players personality inside the clubhouse. 

Some of the players that we think of as wonderful might be buying up property in Florida and tossing old ladies into homelessness. Some of those bad people may do some great things. Up can be down and down can be up. Everybody has a skeleton or two or twelve. 

A couple of years ago... I accidently clicked on a story that I was not interested in. After that accidental click... My news feed fed me story after story about how Ellen Degeneres is really really mean. There was no other conclusion to draw from the avalanche of stories sent my way on the subject. Ellen was clearly a horrible person. 

I want to state for the record that I have never met her. 

Social Media is a dangerous place. 

That said... I'd probably pass on Bauer... because... well... I mean... I do read X, Facebook, instragram, Tik-Tok. 

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

23 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

The post I responded stated ... "Clevinger was being investigated due allegations of domestic abuse a year or two ago. Regardless of the claim's veracity, that's not someone the Twins are interested in bringing into the clubhouse, and I don't blame them."

It's not what everyone is saying but the post I responded to states this quite clearly.  How does "regardless of the claim's veracity" not ignore the possibility he was falsely accused?  Let's replace veracity with a synonym like Truthfulness or accuracy.  Regardless of the truthfulness of the statement does not ignore if he was falsely accused?

Because the point is that the Twins are not interested in him regardless of anything else - including the veracity of those allegations. The veracity of those claims is not relevant to the Twins not wanting to bring him into the clubhouse.

I don't think it's a good faith interpretation of that sentence to assume someone wants to ignore whether or not Clevinger was falsely accused. 

[mikelink45]

We seem to specialize in signing injured pitchers who get paid for a year of healing - Pineda, Mahle, now DeScaflani. How much money was spent on them during their rehab years?  How does that fit with the club budget?  

Let's get the young guys up - we have a solid four - the fifth is often just an inning eater.  Develop our own arms - we have three that are really close and I do not want them set further down the list. 

[Jeff K]

2 hours ago, specialiststeve said:

Our staff is fine... the # 5 spot "should be" the spot we use a Varland or other prospects to see what they have. If it is a shuttle to see who can handle it so be it. 

Would be fine with another Vet but likely would have to be a minor league deal which the "better" of the ones mentioned likely would not want and are looking for a major league deal. 

If Thor would take a minor league deal that is the direction I would go. He clearly is not himself but this coaching staff seems to get the best out of guys most of the time and at only 31 may have a few years left. Minor league deal that if turns into a major league deal gets him say 3-5 mil? 

That is a good call out regarding the 5 spot.  There are very few teams that have proven 5th starters that don't have question marks.  I am hopeful, that if needed, the Twins trade for a quality starter by the trade deadline.  There is a surplus of talent on the farm that can create immediate value for the team should the need arise.

[Nick Nelson]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

I see a lot of people disparaging Clevinger as a "bad clubhouse fit" with no explanation which is a pretty bad way to smear someone's character without any evidence.

If they actually have a strong clubhouse then it can survive one person with a prickly personality. If they can't survive that, then they have a fragile, weak clubhouse culture.

I assumed people are aware of Clevinger's negative rep, which goes well beyond the domestic abuse allegations from last year. He's a clown, there are plenty of examples. Remember the time he screwed his team over by breaking COVID protocol? Remember the time he publicly ripped Jorge Polanco for being a PED user because he gave up a home run to him? Remember the time he almost started a brawl because he felt Dom Smith rounded the bases too slow on him? (It happened in his third-most recent start!)

There you go. Evidence! 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

I think it would be great to sign a “#10/Break Glass in Case of Emergency” starter to store in St. Paul.  I’m most interested in Dallas Keuchel, as he was very useful in that role last year, and Jake Odorizzi, as he is also a known guy.  Do these guys have anything left in the tank?  Well, for Keuchel, he probably hasn’t changed much in the last year. . . 

I completely agree that I’m not interested in an old retread starter to come in and be the “new” 5th starter on the team.  I only want one of these guys around for emergency purposes.  

[saviking]

They will be interested in whoever has had the most injuries in their career.

[Nick Nelson]

3 hours ago, TSMN said:

Ignore Bauer, at the league minimum, but bring up Rich Hill and Clevinger? I wish the Polads would sell to someone who's actually interested in winning another WS.

This sentiment is so odd to me when literally zero of the 30 major-league teams have any interest in signing Bauer.