MapleGroveTwinsFan

Is that what I said? I am using what they have right now, I also said "unless of course they go out and get somebody better in a trade or FA, but that doesn't mean I also wouldn't be keeping him on a short lease." With who they have who right now, who should be starting next year, Bundy and Archer?

Has he? He has one game with more than 5 1/3 innings out of 7 (really good 7 innings 1 run), two with 4 innings and at least 4 earned runs, Three decent starts with 5 innings (1,2,1 runs) and a 5 1/3 with 4. If you aren't willing to give Matthews a shot over him, when are you ever going to give a prospect a shot?

Based on your criteria Bradly 16/28 - 57% Ryan 13/24 - 54% Matthews 10/21 - 48% Ober 10/22 - 47 Prilipp 7/19 - 37% Kremer 4/7 - 57% Matthew only has one start that falls into your criteria that isn't considered a QS, Ryan and Bradley have multiple games that fit your criteria but fall short of a QS. I agree when Matthews hasn't been good, he has been mostly real bad. IMO that is enough to give him a spot in the starting rotation next year, unless of course they go out and get somebody better in a trade or FA, but that doesn't mean I also wouldn't be keeping him on a short lease.

If the Twins are playing Lopez 18 million, Ryan 10 or whatever he gets, Ober more than his 5.2 he made this year, and Kremer around 5 or whatever he gets, who do you think the Twins will give the starting pitchers chances to and how long of lease do they get? I am all for having as many arms as possible, but the top guys better be real good or real inexpensive

Teams that don't have a back log of possible prospects in AAA after missing the playoffs the last two years, absolutely have a veteran OF into the regular season, 100%. The Twins had a god awful off season, roster construction was terrible when the decided to keep Wallner, Larnach, Roden and the Outman on top of signing Bell and decided not to trade Lopez/Ryan/Jeffers (one or all), and at the same time did nothing about the pen, then the Lopez injury happened and they were stuck in the middle ground and this FO/Mgmt has proven time and again they are horsesh!t of changing on the fly. So if they would not have had one of Larnach or Wallner, and had Erod up; having Outman as the last guy off the bench would have defensible and probably the right thing to do. Veteran presence that could cover CF, come in late for Larnach/Wallner, steal a base and not play much. Martin still could played against LH and been the utility player he is. The prediction for this team was it was not likely to make the playoffs and unless by some miracle (which is tough with the Blue Jay playing 9 games against teams ahead of the Twins) the prediction will come true. Some good things did come out of the season, Culpepper getting up, Jenkins getting valuable at bats, Lee proving to be a viable 3B, Clemens proving to a super utility player, Matthews, Prielipp, and Morris (and even Adams, Paredes, Rojas, and FunderburK) getting great experience and obviously Bradley. But as of right now, next year doesn't look much different than last year, so lets hope the FO has a better off season than last year.

The Twins are 1 - 32 when scoring two or less runs, which is close to .25% of the games, and have scored 6 or more runs 23 times. Consistency on offense was one of the main issues this year, but generally had problems everywhere and this season should have been more about developing then pretending to compete.

Yes, absolutely because if ERod wasn't ready he could have been demoted, and maybe those two could have played off each other?

Am I imaging something where the Twins are not 69-77? Has Larnach really had a good season? He has hit .180 since July 26 with 4 homers and 9 RBI and a OBP below .300 and a SLG a hair over .350. and Josh Bell has a WAR of less than 1, is that what fans consider good season? Less than Lewis and tied with Martin and .2 less than Culpepper who has played in 112 less games.

Matthews has 10 quality starts in 21 starts, Bradley has 12 in 28, Ryan 11 in 24 and Ober has six in 22 starts. He pitched 31 innings in August walked 6 guys, struck out 24 and had an ERA of 2.90, In June never pitched in less than 6 innings, only once gave up more than 2 runs walked 8 in 33 innings with a 3.82 ERA. July wasn't great but take away his 8 runs in 3 innings and it wasn't terrible. May 3 of his 4 starts were quality starts (7,6,6 innings) and his 4th start wasn't good. He consistently gives the Twins 80 plus pitches. In his 21 starts only 4 times has he given up more than 4 runs. (one more time than Ober and has two more total innings in one less start than Ober) So if disappointment means he has to be a top of the rotation starter, then yes I guess he is a disappointment. He has done enough this year to be given a spot in the rotation next year (who has done more than him to deserve that spot?) and maybe he craps himself like Varland and ends up in the pen, maybe he ends up being a super cheap back of the rotation guy allowing them to spend elsewhere, or maybe he figures it out and becomes a decent mid rotation starter, or completely flames out like SWR. Somehow people think the Twins rotation is so damn good that he needs to be in the pen or minors it is like you haven't even watched the team play this year, I remember when people on here were talking about how SWR saved a season doing less than what Zebby has done this year. I am sure as heck not paying Ober or Kremer more than than they made last year to send him to the minors or bullpen. With that said I have never been a huge Zebby fan and I think he likely ends up in the pen at some point, but that time isn't now, and if Prielipp or Rojas are pitching better than they should be given the chance. But moving him to the pen to make the rotation worse is somebody's idea of making this team better, I can't understand that.

I would say older players at AAA get better is blind optimism, young prospects got there for a reason, and the expectation is they become good or better players, doesn't always work out, but it works more often then guys on the wrong side of 25.

I have said before if they start with a 6 man rotation to ease Lopez and Abel back in and keep Ryan fresh, then keep Ober or Kremer around, but either of those two starting at the expense of the those guys is the same crap they have been doing for the last few years, and in case you haven't noticed it hasn't worked out to well for them. Prielipp, Abel and Bradley and hopefully Rojas are the future for the Twins rotation, not Ober, so get them in.

So who aren't you aren't you starting? Lopez, Ryan, Bradly, Prielipp, Abel, Matthews, or even Rojas?

Agreed he is not in the top 3 to move on from and not even top 5, Larnach, Wallner, Gray, Roden, Lewis, and others on the 40 man. But also doesn't mean they shouldn't be looking to upgrade from him. As of right now, today the rotation for next year is set in the top three Ryan, Lopez, Bradly, and some combo of Prielipp, Abel, Matthews for the next two/three. Those 3 have to be on the major league roster in some role, you don't send down 25, 26 and 27 year olds to roster guys like Ober and Kremer. I get there isn't much depth after that, and that is something they need to solve in the offseason, any maybe they do that by trading Pablo and/or Ryan and that opens up a spot for a Ober/Kremer. They pissed away an option for Ober back in 22 when the brain "no so" trust decided he should be in the minors at age 26 for Bundy and Archer pissed away a season.

Says more about the twins pitching staff as a whole, then it does about Ober, doesn't it?

100% agree, the complaint isn't about Clemens, it is that he is the best Twins full time player and has a .300 OBP. IMO very similar to the Love for Castro, justified for the player not so much for the Twins.