What's Left in Pitching Free Agency for the Twins?

[DJL44]

46 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

I assumed people are aware of Clevinger's negative rep, which goes well beyond the domestic abuse allegations from last year. He's a clown, there are plenty of examples. Remember the time he screwed his team over by breaking COVID protocol? Remember the time he publicly ripped Jorge Polanco for being a PED user because he gave up a home run to him? Remember the time he almost started a brawl because he felt Dom Smith rounded the bases too slow on him? (It happened in his third-most recent start!)

There you go. Evidence! 

Thanks, I haven't paid any attention to Clevinger previously. A link in the article would have been appropriate.

[DJL44]

27 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

This sentiment is so odd to me when literally zero of the 30 major-league teams have any interest in signing Bauer.

I keep thinking the A's should sign Urias and Bauer because they don't have a fanbase to alienate but Oakland's rotation doesn't look that bad as-is.

[Heiny]

I guess I'm not very good at following directions but, that unmentionable guy would be my choice for a minor league deal with performance bonuses.  Low risk, high reward, if there is any problems "of any kind" he's an easy DFA.  Seems like the highest reward possible for this situation.  I would give the guy another chance.

[baul0010]

I would like Keller as a minor leaguer who we could possibly covert to a reliever.  I'm sure he doesn't want to make that transition if he's still available in free agency.  

[Joe A. Preusser]

Free agency for a good SP was always extremely unlikely this year.  Trading for a nice, young,  controlled, inexpensive pitcher was likely the plan.

I thought and hoped it would be during the off-season.  Now it appears it will be at the trade deadline.  There are a few positives to that.  You only have to pay half a years salary, no 1st half injury risk, and we may not even have a need if Ryan and Ober progress like we all hope.  

Barring several impactful injuries, there will likely be no significant talent added before mid summer. 

We have a very good team.

[DocBauer]

This article seems so familiar somehow...................................LOL.

But seriously, as I've stated elsewhere, I'm neither necessarily for or against signing a veteran who's still sitting out there. And if the Twins were to sign one, I don't think it would be any indictment of their young arms.

Unlike the signing of Keuchel last season...who was brought in to help rest starters for the end of the season and playoffs... the Twins MIGHT be facing the opposite situation where they are concerned about the front half of the season. Consider SWR had a really rough 2023 and is changing his arm slot. So far so good. Festa may be a really nice prospect, but he's got all of 3 games at the AAA level. While I think Headrick eventually heads to the pen, he's still got some starter potential. But how much potential? While I've got a hunch we're going to see a very good Canterino this season, just when should we actually expect him to be ready to face ML hitters? 

So if Varland is up right away due to issues with DeSclafini, or anyone else, who do you turn to next? Who do the Twins trust TODAY to fill that role? The answer might be very different come June or July. But a veteran arm on a small, split deal...possibly even a milb deal... might be prudent to begin the season. 

And again, that doesn't mean the Twins don't like their prospects, but simply want a veteran option to help fill in and see if they get a nice rebound option. Think Cueto 2 years ago, 

But then again, maybe they really, really like the kids and trust at least a couple of them to help in the NOW and don't want to "waste" innings on a veteran arm that may or may not "turn it around".

Not sure I know what the right answer is, but having an experienced, fall back option might be prudent to begin the season.

[rv78]

If DeSclafani isn't an option to go at the start of the season they better have a Plan B ready. After the first 9 days of their schedule where they have 3 days off in those 9 days, they'll play 25 games in 26 days. A 5 man rotation will be needed. 1 slip up by another one of their 4 starters and they'll be dipping pretty deep into the well almost immediately. How many bullpen games can they put together to save the rotation if 1 of the main 4 starters goes down too? Seems they are banking on Pablo being as good as last year, Ryan and Ober being better and Paddack being able to pitch an entire season with only having the #5 spot to worry about, when in reality is..... Pablo might regress from last year. Ryan and Ober may never get any better, Paddack might not last a month or two and #5 is already in question. Good luck boys!

[Mike Sixel]

Just. Say. No. 

[farmerguychris]

With their inference that they are losing money - do any of us really think they'll sign anyone at all?  I, for one, am skeptical.  

[sweetmusicviola16]

If they want to sign a guy to an milb at this point, no big deal. It would have made more sense to do so 4 weeks ago though, ST is now half over. As far as the FA's go,not one is worth any excitement.

But if DeSclafani isn't ready by April 06 I say go with Varland, with SWR and Headrick backing him up.

[JD-TWINS]

6 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

We seem to specialize in signing injured pitchers who get paid for a year of healing - Pineda, Mahle, now DeScaflani. How much money was spent on them during their rehab years?  How does that fit with the club budget?  

Let's get the young guys up - we have a solid four - the fifth is often just an inning eater.  Develop our own arms - we have three that are really close and I do not want them set further down the list. 

Mental readiness, maturity is also a real thing …….. I gotta trust the Club knows which guys & when they should be in the majors. Pitching is often a “me thing” that needs to be developed …….pitch mix, command. Paying a guy $4M on a flier isn’t a bad risk & he’s not blocking anyone the Club deems ready to go. Plenty of innings to go around.

Saying that a guy scheduled to throw 10-15% of the Team’s starter innings is just an innings eater isn’t the approach to maximize wins.

I think Varland - SWR - Festa will combine for an entire year’s worth of starter innings …….180 or so. They’ll get their chances.

[Jocko87]

The youngest one that will sign a minor league deal. I can see a need for some innings eaters at AAA as nearly everyone there will have some sort of innings limit.  

I dont want to use another 26 man spot on anything short of a stud, and I don't think they do either.  There are plenty of guys to rotate through the 5th spot but they will need backfill in St Paul. 

[David HK]

I'd be down with old Central foes Lorenzen or Clevinger-  think they might have some extra incentive vs their old clubs?

Although, I'm also down with Bauer.

[AlGoreRythm]

23 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Still waiting for the team to throw Kirby Puckett out of their Hall of Fame. I'll be patient.

This front office didn't put KP in the Twins Hall.

Clubhouse vibes are something they're trying to build with this team, as some stories and posts have noted.

Whether you agree or not, it wasn't ever going to happen.

[AlGoreRythm]

23 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

We should ignore if the allegations had any veracity?  Really, we should ignore the facts if he was falsely accused?  

Usually where there is smoke there is fire.  He is not worth the disruption if there are character issues but to banish him based on accusation without even considering the merit of the allegations is just not right.

He wasn't banished, he never played here.

I'm saying they were never going to take a chance on a guy with those allegations, not that Clevinger should be put in the stocks or blacklisted from baseball.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

19 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Just. Say. No. 

No.

 

Did i do that right? And what were we talking about? Oh... offering contracts to free agents. Actually go ahead and offer our terms. If they sign for money we can offer, more power to us. Especially if its a minor league contract (with appropriate opt out dates) so we don't sacrifice a roster spot. So no, don't offer 'em the kitchen sink. Well, unless it is Greinke, and he comes with mentoring super powers. That might be worth a kitchen sink, and some marble counter tops, least if we have our marbles.

[dex8425]

23 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

I think DJL44 makes some fair points.  Falvey should know Clevinger quite well.  If he signs Clevinger, I can accept that.  I also don't think DJL44 was being "snide" when he mentioned taking Kirby out of the Twins HOF.  Puckett was accused of some truly awful stuff.  Sadly, he passed away and with him all that stuff.  I just try not to be so judgemental nowadays.  Being forgiving is a tough thing to do with some of the stuff going on, but it IS a virtue and I make an effort.  I prefer to remember the "good" Kirby Puckett.  

Clevinger is a pitcher who has the talent to make a difference.  He's better than DeSclafani.  And while Nick said "don't bother to bring him up" the Twins couldn't do better than a major league minimum contract with incentives for one year of Trevor Bauer.  I think either Bauer or Clevinger are the only difference makers in this group and Falvey knows BOTH very well.  That he hasn't moved on either is probably all the answer we need.  BUT...that was before DeSclafani's "situation."

I don't like hearing about DeSclafani having this issue already, but it's not a total shock either.  I'm really quite fine with Varland, Canterino and Festa being the depth.  But with the Twins flush with the Balley money for 2024, they certainly have the ability to sign someone to add one more "major league" caliber depth arm.  

Like I said in an earlier post, I'm content to sail into this season with what we have.  But MY expectation is that if this season goes well for the Twins and they seem positioned to make a significant run at the World Series, I'm hoping the Pohlad family will FINALLY make a major move at the trade deadline to get us over the hump.  When your greatest deadline acquisition is the immortal Shannon Stewart, you don't have a very high bar to clear there.  Don Baylor was a shadow of the player he had been when we added him in 1987.  

 

These are my thoughts as well.  I think Lorenzen could be a difference maker as well, but anyone else is not better than Varland, SMW or Festa. If the Twins were considering Bauer or Clev they would be in ST already. 

Some SP will be available at the deadline and I expect the FO to strongly consider adding another starter who could start a playoff game then. 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

21 hours ago, Heiny said:

Seems like the highest reward possible for this situation.

Yeah, i was thinking of saying you can avoid the situation without jumping to conclusions about the person. Might still be unfair, but being fair is hard, and perhaps it is more accurate.

Will that suit folk?

 

We live in "interesting times" apparently.

[dex8425]

19 hours ago, rv78 said:

If DeSclafani isn't an option to go at the start of the season they better have a Plan B ready. After the first 9 days of their schedule where they have 3 days off in those 9 days, they'll play 25 games in 26 days. A 5 man rotation will be needed. 1 slip up by another one of their 4 starters and they'll be dipping pretty deep into the well almost immediately. How many bullpen games can they put together to save the rotation if 1 of the main 4 starters goes down too? Seems they are banking on Pablo being as good as last year, Ryan and Ober being better and Paddack being able to pitch an entire season with only having the #5 spot to worry about, when in reality is..... Pablo might regress from last year. Ryan and Ober may never get any better, Paddack might not last a month or two and #5 is already in question. Good luck boys!

Maybe, but if you look at other rotations around MLB, the Twins rotation situation starts to look better. At least the Twins have three guys who are young AND pitched a decent amount of quality innings last year (Ober, Ryan and Pablo). Most teams don't even have that. I expect Paddack to be good in April and May, at least. Ober was very good last year in MLB and AAA. Ryan was pitching at an all-star level before he pitched through injury for a few terrible starts.

[USAFChief]

32 minutes ago, dex8425 said:

Maybe, but if you look at other rotations around MLB, the Twins rotation situation starts to look better. At least the Twins have three guys who are young AND pitched a decent amount of quality innings last year (Ober, Ryan and Pablo). Most teams don't even have that. I expect Paddack to be good in April and May, at least. Ober was very good last year in MLB and AAA. Ryan was pitching at an all-star level before he pitched through injury for a few terrible starts.

For the record, it wasn't "a few terrible starts" for Ryan in the second half last year.

6.09 ERA, 1.48 WHIP. He was trusted for 2 innings in his only post season start.

He was pretty  awful in the second half last year.

[Heiny]

1 hour ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

Yeah, i was thinking of saying you can avoid the situation without jumping to conclusions about the person. Might still be unfair, but being fair is hard, and perhaps it is more accurate.

Will that suit folk?

 

We live in "interesting times" apparently.

Huh??????

 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

1 hour ago, Heiny said:

Huh??????

 

(Feel free to rephrase the question, and i'll try to answer. Not being the most clear spoken er... written person, myself.)

[rv78]

6 hours ago, USAFChief said:

For the record, it wasn't "a few terrible starts" for Ryan in the second half last year.

6.09 ERA, 1.48 WHIP. He was trusted for 2 innings in his only post season start.

He was pretty  awful in the second half last year.

Yep, Add in the fact that Pablo could easily regress a bit and Ober being the same with Paddack and now DeSclafani not really being able to be counted on and the rotation is anything but solid. I heard the other day that KC is going to be in contention for the division. That looks to be a huge stretch but if there is some talk of them improving that much, the division won't be that easy to win this year. Let's see how the rotation looks June 1. I'll be willing to bet it won't be the starting 5 that everyone is predicting.

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

7 hours ago, USAFChief said:

For the record, it wasn't "a few terrible starts" for Ryan in the second half last year.

6.09 ERA, 1.48 WHIP. He was trusted for 2 innings in his only post season start.

He was pretty  awful in the second half last year.

It was 7 starts when he was hiding an injury. Last game of the postseason gets unfairly held over his head in my opinion. Any team gets desperate when it's an elimination game. 

[darin617]

Not sure I would want any pitcher that has already missed a month of Spring Training. It reminds me of when the Twins signed Lance Lynn late in Spring Training. He was so far behind and never did anything for the Twins. They claim they have been throwing on their own but it's never the same and they will not be worth the time.