What is "Young"?

[h2oface]

I just watched Twins 2024 Season Preview - Royce, Byron, Pablo, Louie, Brooks, & more.

It is always interesting to me how some ball players are considered young, and some old, or at least not young, at the same age. 

Joe Ryan, in this video, and plenty often around TD, is called a young pitcher. He will be 28 in June. Lopez is 28 in a couple weeks. I don't recall him ever being called young. Ober is 29 in July. He is often called one of our young pitchers. Jax 29. Alcala is 29 in July. Paddack was 28 in January. Is he young?

Correa is 29 until September. Is he young?

Varland just turned 26 in December. Duran in January. Winder is 27. Sands 27 in July. Funderburk is 27. Headrick 26. Canterino 26 all season. Are they young? If you spend your early 20's in the minors, and don't get established in the show until the second half of your 20's, does that make you young?

Woods-Richardson is 23 until September. 

Jeffers will be 27 in June. Miranda will be 26 in June. Wallner is 26. Martin will be 25 in March. Julien in April. Lewis in June. Are they young, or are they prime timers? Are the same age position players considered older than pitchers at the same age? 

Just because you don't make the show until your mid to late 20's, do you get a hall pass and you are still young?

And what is old? I hear mentions of 29 even being old at times. And early 30s. Polanco is 30 and turning 31 in July, and we had to trade the old man. If you are 35, good luck getting a multi-year contract, unless you are part of the very upper tier, and then good luck to the teams that sign them, because you are likely to have an albatross on your books. If 27 or 28 is considered young, and 30 old, that is a very short prime time. If you spend years injured, does that make you older and damaged, or younger because there was no "wear and tear" on the body for an additional season(s).

Personally, I don't differentiate. 23 is the top of young. Soon to turn 21 Emmanuel Rodriguez is young. 24-25 is pre-prime time, and the clock is ticking. 26-32 is prime time. 33-35 is middle age, and 36-39 is old. 40 and over and you are an anomaly. 

What do you think? What is young, prime time, and old for a MLB baseball player?

And do you consider the 2024 Twins generally young, or with Buxton, Kepler, Farmer, Vazquez, Santana, DeSclafani, Weiss, Topa, Theilbar, Stewart, Okert, and Jackson in their 30's (a probable 12 of 26 to be on active roster), old?

[h2oface]

Yes.

Ha. Beat you to it.

My apologies if I got anyone's age wrong.

[ziggy]

Willi Castro is 26 and not considered young. Yet these players are considered young.  Miranda will be 26 in June. Wallner is 26. Martin will be 25 in March. Julien in April. Lewis in June.

I think MLB experience counts more for age defining than age.

The same paradox as age supposedly defining maturity.

Years ago the much ballyhooed  Alex Meyer was considered young while Rick Porcello was the same age and had racked up dozens of major league wins. 

[strumdatjag]

As I get older,  the definition of “young” gets older.  A moving target. 

[FlyingFinn]

Their young for arbitration and free agency maybe. But that's not really the meaning of young. But I also don't think it's bad to begin your major league career at age 25-27, especially considering the lost covid year for some. Plenty of guys do well starting at that age.

[stringer bell]

At one point this off season, the Twins had only two pitchers over 30. Now they have seven. They have subtracted Polanco, but added Santana, who is more than seven years older.

The Twins have a lot of talent still on the upswing, but have added a lot of older players lately. It appears to be a pretty good mix for 2024. 

[Parfigliano]

I imagine the position you play also plays into if you are considered young or old.  Out of a C and any other position of the same age the C is probably considered old first because of the wear and tear inherent in playing C.

[Doctor Wu]

Good post! The whole definition of "young" and "old" , especially relative to baseball players, seems to have changed over the years. Or has it? It also depends, of course, on the player, and sometimes the position. Think about those veteran knuckleball pitchers like Phil Niekro, and Hoyt Wilhem, and even Tim Wakefield; they were productive into their early 40s, as were DH guys like Nelson Cruz and Jim Thome. 

[Riverbrian]

In baseball... "young" in the original post would be more based upon experience and not age. 

Correa is 29 with 8 years of service time. That guy is old. 

Ober is 28 with 2 years of service time. That guy is young. 

When I make my major league debut this year at age 58. I will be wet behind the ears. 

 

 

[chpettit19]

I think most of the time that "young" is thrown around on these boards people really mean "inexperienced at the major league level." The Twins are not a particularly young team by age, but are by experience. I think the question is who believes debuting at 25 means you still have substantial growth in you from a skill perspective at 28, and who believes that growth is more tied to the actual age. 

My definition of young for the 2024 season is someone born in the 21st century. Age 24 season or younger is what I call "young." Simeon Woods-Richardson is the only "young" pitcher on the Twins 40-man roster in terms of age. The rest of the guys called "young" are mostly just "late-bloomers" or "inexperienced." Emmanuel Rodriguez is the only "young" hitter on the the Twins 40-man roster in terms of age. The rest are just "inexperienced." You could make an argument for Camargo being "young" because he's a catcher and they tend to develop a little slower, but strictly by age Emma is the only "young" hitter on the 40-man.

[Trov]

There are two types of young as you reference.  There is the literal age of young, which I would say 26 or younger is young for MLB.  I say that because 27 is general peak seasons for most players, with a slight drop off or level play until around 30.  30 is old and most players are on down side of career after 30.  Not all of course, but those are generally HOF bound. 

However, some use the term young for inexperienced, in particular at MLB level. I personally think just because a guy is not at MLB level does not make them young as experience goes.  They may be getting more reps at AAA than they would in MLB.  However, it is not until the a player reaches MLB that they really learn what it takes to be there, and stay there. 

So if a guy is in his 4th year and 26, he can by young based on age, but still not young based on MLB experience.  If a guy is 26 and only has a year of MLB experience he is young for age and experience.  However, when you are that kind of player, you are not expected to have many good seasons, and may only have a couple before his physical age catches up.  

[RpR]

Young is what ever one wants it to be.

[ziggy]

Quote

When I make my major league debut this year at age 58. I will be wet behind the ears. 

Please let me know when that is so I can get box seats. 

 

I wonder if Delmon has been arrested lately?

[Mike Sixel]

I don't agree they are young by experience at all. Julien, Wallner and Lewis..... That's it for guys without much experience. Maybe, maybe, kiriloff. Otherwise this is a veteran team with more leadership than followers. 

I'm always amazed how many posts I read here about inexperience and youth, given this roster. 

[Shaitan]

I think the general consensus is 30 is a turning point on young/old. There is no middle for some reason.

In the NFL it's more like 26-27. Whatever age that people think the average player's skills begin to decline.

Frankly, in baseball, it's much more subjective. A 1B or RF or C or (healthy) P isn't going to lose their primary skillset like a CF/SS.

But I love articles like this that point out how much we use words that lack definition. What is "experienced?" As I saw elsewhere, isn't any at bat by an MLB player, by definition, a "professional at bat"?

If I'm building a roster, I care more about what percentage of the roster is still prearbitration or arb-eligible more than their average age.

[Shaitan]

44 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I don't agree they are young by experience at all. Julien, Wallner and Lewis..... That's it for guys without much experience. Maybe, maybe, kiriloff. Otherwise this is a veteran team with more leadership than followers. 

I'm always amazed how many posts I read here about inexperience and youth, given this roster. 

I think, due to the rash of injuries the past few years, that we forget some of these players have been getting MLB at bats for 3-4 years. If you count experience by "full seasons played" this team lacks experience. But...there is some point where that changes, even for someone like Kiriloff who I doubt has topped 81 games in a season (without looking it up) but he also isn't riding the AAAA shuttle either. So subjective.

[TwinsDr2021]

I have been around TD for many years, and I believe that "Young" is used when people want/hope/believe a player to get better.

For example Nick Gordon (28)is young because there is the hope he figures it out and gets better but Castro (26/27) isn't young because the belief this is who he is.

Julien, Martin, Miranda Lewis, AK, Larnach, Wallner are not what I would consider young guys, compared to what other players their ages have accomplished in the majors (Acuna, Soto, Kirk, Vlad, Bichette, Tatis for examples) but on this site I would say most consider them young because of the want/hope/believe they will all get better as players.

Shane Bieber is like 40 days older than Ober, but I say with confidence nobody thinks Bieber is young but I have read on here Ober still is.

Same with the Correa example above, he is only 29 but nobody thinks he is young because the expectation isn't that he is going to get better, the hope is he doesn't get worse and nobody is hoping Julien, Martin, Miranda, Lewis, AK, and Wallner  just stay the same or get worse because they will have failed. So se pretend they are young.

[Kenny Powers]

It's all semantics, but I believe there are some generally accepted bench marks.

First, it's based on level of competition.  A 23 year old in AAA is "young".  A 23 year old in rookie ball is not.  A lot of people will reference the average age per level to add perspective when talking about a player which I always appreciate.

Second, (I see other have already touched on this) there is the experience factor.  Fair or not, a 22 year old drafted out of college and makes it to the majors in two years at age 24 seems "younger" than another 24 year old that spent 8 years in the minors (like 16 year old that was drafted out of the Dominican).  That's also why guys like Ober and Ryan seem "young" because they only have a couple seasons under their belt at the big league level compared to guys like Correa and Buxton.  

And yes, as others have noted, I think there are bench marks on the other side too.  I think most would say over 35 is "older" for a ballplayer with the assumption that players that age are in the decline.  But then you have guys like Thielbar who have their best seasons at age 34, 35 and 36.  Go figure.

[JD-TWINS]

18 hours ago, h2oface said:

I just watched Twins 2024 Season Preview - Royce, Byron, Pablo, Louie, Brooks, & more.

It is always interesting to me how some ball players are considered young, and some old, or at least not young, at the same age. 

Joe Ryan, in this video, and plenty often around TD, is called a young pitcher. He will be 28 in June. Lopez is 28 in a couple weeks. I don't recall him ever being called young. Ober is 29 in July. He is often called one of our young pitchers. Jax 29. Alcala is 29 in July. Paddack was 28 in January. Is he young?

Correa is 29 until September. Is he young?

Varland just turned 26 in December. Duran in January. Winder is 27. Sands 27 in July. Funderburk is 27. Headrick 26. Canterino 26 all season. Are they young? If you spend your early 20's in the minors, and don't get established in the show until the second half of your 20's, does that make you young?

Woods-Richardson is 23 until September. 

Jeffers will be 27 in June. Miranda will be 26 in June. Wallner is 26. Martin will be 25 in March. Julien in April. Lewis in June. Are they young, or are they prime timers? Are the same age position players considered older than pitchers at the same age? 

Just because you don't make the show until your mid to late 20's, do you get a hall pass and you are still young?

And what is old? I hear mentions of 29 even being old at times. And early 30s. Polanco is 30 and turning 31 in July, and we had to trade the old man. If you are 35, good luck getting a multi-year contract, unless you are part of the very upper tier, and then good luck to the teams that sign them, because you are likely to have an albatross on your books. If 27 or 28 is considered young, and 30 old, that is a very short prime time. If you spend years injured, does that make you older and damaged, or younger because there was no "wear and tear" on the body for an additional season(s).

Personally, I don't differentiate. 23 is the top of young. Soon to turn 21 Emmanuel Rodriguez is young. 24-25 is pre-prime time, and the clock is ticking. 26-32 is prime time. 33-35 is middle age, and 36-39 is old. 40 and over and you are an anomaly. 

What do you think? What is young, prime time, and old for a MLB baseball player?

And do you consider the 2024 Twins generally young, or with Buxton, Kepler, Farmer, Vazquez, Santana, DeSclafani, Weiss, Topa, Theilbar, Stewart, Okert, and Jackson in their 30's (a probable 12 of 26 to be on active roster), old?

Good discussion point.

I agree on your Prime & your middle age & your old. I think yers of service in The Show have a lot to do with how a player is viewed. Ober, while older but just coming off his first full year…….considered young. Buxton & Correa have been in Professional Baseball (2012) for many years but at 29/30 are still in their primes as real veterans.

I see the Twins as a young club! 7 of the 12 older guys you listed (well done btw) are pitchers & 6 of them in the Pen. Kepler - Farmer - Santana are all 3 nearly guaranteed to be in their last year with the club. Vazquez & Buxton will return in ‘25.

To me the core is young and there is good veteran leadership. Santana is probably the only “old” guy.

As a contrast to Santana, Ryan, at 28 & entering his 3rd full season, is still pretty young!

[h2oface]

🤔 After considering some of the insightful discussion here, I have convinced my mind to throw the dictionary out, and consider Justin Topa, who turns 33 in a couple of weeks on March 7, as the youngster of the bullpen. 🤔

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Young was a '49ers quarterback in the Jerry Rice era, no?

 

Pretty sure he is still Young.

[Craig Arko]

Since I’m old enough to be Nelson Cruz’ father, they’re all kids to me.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Craig Arko said:

Since I’m old enough to be Nelson Cruz’ father, they’re all kids to me.

I was going to answer, ‘young is not Craig’ 🙂

[stringer bell]

The oldest player last year (Rich Hill) is four days older than my son, but two and a half years younger than my eldest daughter. So, yes, they are all kids to me, as well. When a player makes the big leagues who is younger than my grandson, then I'll really feel old.

[tony&rodney]

Young was a long, long time ago. Things were different.

[CRF]

It's what I used to be, 60 something years ago.

[RpR]

I landscaped again for a few years , full time,  when I was in early sixties taking a break for about five years in the late fifty year age group.

Doing that in the early Fifties is young compared to early Sixties, I could still carry two 70 lb. pound blocks, but rather than carry one in each hand 20 yards, I stacked them and carried them leaning on my chest 20 feet.

[snellman]

When they talk about players starting to get towards the end of their "prime" in their late 20s/early 30s and they are the same age as my kids I feel old.  When that same thing happens and it is my Grandkids instead of my kids, I will feel really old.

[DocBauer]

I think this is an awesome topic! Well worth discussing! But it's also going to be diversive simply due to the nature of both past and present, as well as history.

Before digging in too deep, how many Blyleven and Gooden comps on the pitching side and Griffey and Harper comps on the player side can we just agree are just wonder kinds and generational talents? And there are others, I recognize that. But we are talking about aberrations, aren't we? 

I do agree that AGE is a different discussion vs ML experience, as well as production. Let's examine someone like Trout vs Nelson Cruz, just for example sake. Trout is an amazing talent still on a HOF career despite some injuries and playing for a bad team. Cruz is a borderline HOF talent who didn't hit his stride until he was about 28yo. But are we going to base age on a HOF type of career...OR...do we base age on production and potential?

I've seen a lot of SP have solid careers before reaching an ACE level, or close to it, when they hit age 29-30. And some got big contracts. Some continued, some didn't. Verlander and Scherzer are almost aberrations when you look closely. 

Royce Lewis and Correa are both part of that "generational" types of talent. I'm NOT saying HOF. I'm just talking about talent and production and potential. 

But let's take a step back for a moment. Why do we care about age? If Ryan and Ober take a step forward and become better with experience in their late 20's to become rotational stalwarts do we care how old they are?

If Julien and Wallner and Lewis, and maybe Kirilloff are ready to advance the Twins, doess it matter they are all around 24-27 yo?  That's still young for me.

IF Canterino is FINALLY ready at 26 yo to destroy AAA and help the Twins in 2024 and potentially be part of the 2025 rotation, does it matter if he's 27yo at that point? 

I just don't know that age makes a difference. PRODUCTION makes a difference. 

 

 

[Jerr]

I'm 71 yrs. Old, so to me they are all young.😁