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Posted

The Twins showed their hand this offseason when Ryan Jeffers started every game. With Christian Vázquez under contract through 2025, the Twins could have a compelling offseason regarding the catching tandem in place.

Image courtesy of Ken Blaze-USA TODAY Sports

Christian Vázquez struggled significantly at the plate throughout much of 2023. His down year came to a head in the postseason, where his lack of a single appearance confirmed that he's undoubtedly the backup to Ryan Jeffers moving forward. On the wrong side of 30 years of age, and with multiple years of a relatively high salary remaining, could the Twins shake up the catching mix this winter?

The Twins aggressively pursued Christian Vázquez last winter, eventually signing him to a 3-year, $30m contract to ensure he came to Minnesota. The bottom fell out in the deal's first year, as Vázquez posted a .598 OPS. His barrel rate plummeted to just 3.2%, and he struck out a career-high 23.1% of the time. At 32 years of age, it's fair to wonder whether this was a skills decline rather than just a down year. 

To the credit of Vázquez, he was still a plus defender behind the plate, something that the Twins indeed value for good reason. His blocking and framing were still excellent, even if his pop time declined. 

The defense is a significant consideration for two reasons. From the Twins' perspective, it may help bridge the gap between his offensive decline and the price tag. We know by now that the Twins believe in a near timeshare behind the plate to keep their catchers fresh. As long as Vázquez remains a plus defender, he'll likely still be seen as a perfectly viable option to start roughly half of the time in 2024.

On the other hand, the defense could offer one final chance for the Twins to get out of the remaining $20m through 2025. After such a down year offensively, it may be hard to envision teams lining up to trade for Christian Vázquez, but it's not impossible. Just one offseason ago, the Twins had to go to great lengths to outbid multiple other teams. It may be tempting if they're willing to pay down at least some of the money to trade him and have a few million to spend elsewhere. When it comes to backup catchers, there are always plenty of options.

Another significant factor in how the Twins pursue the catching position for 2024 likely has much to do with their opinion of Jair Camargo. The 24-year-old spent all of 2024 in St. Paul with a league-average .253/.323/.503 slash line. He slugged 21 homers with adequate defense behind the plate. He may not be a top prospect, but if the Twins believe he can hold his own offensively and play passable defense, he would likely be a fine backup catcher. The allure of this scenario is that Camargo would make the league minimum instead of $10m.

The Twins could sign another glove-first backup at a more appropriate price tag, with Camargo still waiting in the wings in the event of injury. There may not be exciting names hitting the open market to replace Vázquez. Still, a player such as Victor Caratini could make sense as a switch hitter who provided near-league-average offense and plus defense last season and still won't break the bank.

The Twins will have to decide this winter whether so much shuffling would be worth it at such a low-impact position. With revenues likely to decline with the TV network situation, it could be a reasonable way to save a few million. It's also possible they still see Vázquez as worthy of his $10m price tag, which would be fair given his strong defense. Perhaps they even project him to bounce back to some degree with the bat in 2024.

After signing a sizeable three-year deal, it's been an odd first year for Christian Vázquez. Should the Twins look to move on from Christian Vázquez in 2024 to reallocate some payroll? Do they have what they need in Jair Camargo, or can they find another worthy replacement? Let us know below!

 


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Posted

IMO, defense is more important then hitting at the catcher position. I can't see another team offering much for Vazquez after last year, unless the Twins eat a bunch of salary. This doesn't make much sense to me. If you want to cut payroll dur to the TV contract situation, why would you pay out several mil for a guy to play elsewhere? I'd keep him and see if he bounces back offensively. If Camargo can continue to improve, and Vazquez has a good start maybe trade him mid season. Good defensive catchers just don't grow on trees. they have 2 good catchers now, and a pitching staff that improved by leaps and bounds throwing to them. Also, can they be sure that we saw the real Jeffers last year, or was it a "career year" . 

Posted

Another article about the problem the Twins have at the catcher position. I don't see having 2 quality catchers as a dilemma or his remaining $20M contract. If the Twins really need to cut payroll, why not an article about how they can get out of the Buxton or Correa contracts? Those 2 players were equally as bad this year as Vazquez was and cost CONSIDERABLY more.

Posted

I get the looking at everybody to find ways to improve. 2023 wasn't a great year offensively for Vazquez. When I look at his numbers on Baseball Reference, they aren't that far off his career numbers. Carrer .684 OPS and 83 OPS+. 2023 OPS of 598 and OPS+ 65. He only has 3 above average offensive seasons in 9 years. Most of his value comes from defense and game calling. Is 10 mil a steep price for his offense, sure.

Camargo has a total on 90 games in AAA. He needs at least another 1/2 a season there before I'm ready to get too excited about his 21 homers and .826 OPS in 2023. 119K's in 332 AB is more than a little concerning. 

Now just for the sake of augment let's say we trade him but have to pay 4 mil of his salary. What kind of backup catcher can you get for less than the savings? Sany Leon? I'd much prefer Vazquez over the alternative. 

Posted

Do NOT trade him.  First off he's not gonna get you much in return.  His salary isn't as hurtful as Buxtons salary for 45-65 games of .210 hitting and zero defensive contribution and extremely little baserunning prowess for a person as fast as Buxton. Hope he returns next year and hits better and THEN look to trade him at all star break if they really need salary relief.  Catcher is the single most important defensive position on the field , especially with the larger bases , less pickoff attempts and pitch clock , and he is heads above Jeffers as a catcher.

Posted

@Cody Pirkl

Quote

The Twins will have to decide this winter whether so much shuffling would be worth it at such a low-impact position. 

Low-impact? Game calling and relationships with pitching staff. Ability to synthesize data presented in game planning. Ability to fly extemporaneously from game plan calling based on circumstances and intuitive sense. Blocking the errant sweeper/sliders to preclude runners advancing a base. Throw-out rate.

Maybe I misunderstand the sentence. I just understand the role as more than "low-impact position."

Posted

Not sure why this is even a topic.  

In today's budget he is a bargain. Getting a quality player that is a great leader and likely a good reason that our other catcher took a stop forward AND our pitching staff was so good.... at his pricetag..... a VERY good deal. 

Posted

I agree with Karbo. Catcher is a defense first position. It's the main thing you look for when shopping for a catcher. So we already have that, why would we let it go?

As far as Vasquez' value to another team, everyone wants a great defensive catcher on their team.  And everyone is looking for depth. So I think he would be attractive to more teams than many of us think.

This article mentioned blocking and framing. But that's all. In order to discuss whether a catch is worth keeping we need to look at much more than that. How is he at calling a game? Is he a good field general? Can he hold a runner at first due to his arm? Does he do his homework, studying opponents ' weaknesses before each game? Does he know when to visit the mound? Etc etc

Now in discussing the balance between a good defense and a good enough offense,, I'd like to point out how poorly the hitters were as a whole, and that included Vasquez. It also included Buxton, and Correa; Polanco was down, Kepler was so bad in the first half that fans wanted him gone;  Larnack, a former #1 draft pick could never get his footing this year, Miranda, a former Twins minor league hitter of the year who was pretty good last year, fell flat on his face this spring. Farmer hit below his career average. And do on. There were exceptions - Castro and Taylor did very well, but generally this club had a collective swoon hitting wise.  So you can't really single out Vasquez for not hitting and holding that against him or use it as an excuse to move him off the team.  The team hitting philosophy and/or coaching has to change, and then maybe we'll see the real talent.

 

Posted
1 hour ago, Karbo said:

IMO, defense is more important then hitting at the catcher position. I can't see another team offering much for Vazquez after last year, unless the Twins eat a bunch of salary. This doesn't make much sense to me. If you want to cut payroll dur to the TV contract situation, why would you pay out several mil for a guy to play elsewhere? I'd keep him and see if he bounces back offensively. If Camargo can continue to improve, and Vazquez has a good start maybe trade him mid season. Good defensive catchers just don't grow on trees. they have 2 good catchers now, and a pitching staff that improved by leaps and bounds throwing to them. Also, can they be sure that we saw the real Jeffers last year, or was it a "career year" . 

Good reasoning Karbo. Maybe the solution is play Jeffrey's 60% of the time and Vasquez 40% ..

Posted
48 minutes ago, rv78 said:

Another article about the problem the Twins have at the catcher position. I don't see having 2 quality catchers as a dilemma or his remaining $20M contract. If the Twins really need to cut payroll, why not an article about how they can get out of the Buxton or Correa contracts? Those 2 players were equally as bad this year as Vazquez was and cost CONSIDERABLY more.

 

48 minutes ago, rv78 said:

Another article about the problem the Twins have at the catcher position. I don't see having 2 quality catchers as a dilemma or his remaining $20M contract. If the Twins really need to cut payroll, why not an article about how they can get out of the Buxton or Correa contracts? Those 2 players were equally as bad this year as Vazquez was and cost CONSIDERABLY more.

why not an article about how they can get out of the Buxton or Correa contracts?” Because they can’t get out of those guaranteed contracts unless they trade them. But I think both have no trade clauses in their contracts. Both need to be healthy in 2024, and if they are they will produce. Sadly they can’t count on Buxton to play more than 120 games when healthy because he is injury prone. Every time he puts on the jets or slides I cringe, expecting another pulled hamstring or broken hand.

Posted
Quote

The Twins showed their hand this offseason when Ryan Jeffers started every game

Someone please tell me where I can watch these offseason games! 😉

Posted

I can't see where the Twins can trade Vázquez and get anything more than salary relief and maybe not even that. I would expect that he'll rebound in 2024 to some degree. I have little confidence that Camargo would be a decent backup catcher, but we probably will find out in 2024. It is extremely doubtful that both Jeffers and Vázquez get through two consecutive seasons without injury. Depth is needed at catcher and it is not a position where the Twins have depth.

Posted
2 hours ago, Karbo said:

IMO, defense is more important then hitting at the catcher position. I can't see another team offering much for Vazquez after last year, unless the Twins eat a bunch of salary. This doesn't make much sense to me. If you want to cut payroll dur to the TV contract situation, why would you pay out several mil for a guy to play elsewhere? I'd keep him and see if he bounces back offensively. If Camargo can continue to improve, and Vazquez has a good start maybe trade him mid season. Good defensive catchers just don't grow on trees. they have 2 good catchers now, and a pitching staff that improved by leaps and bounds throwing to them. Also, can they be sure that we saw the real Jeffers last year, or was it a "career year" . 

If defense is more important then hitting at the catcher position, then Vazquez should be a valuable trade commodity.

Posted
10 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

If defense is more important then hitting at the catcher position, then Vazquez should be a valuable trade commodity.

Question is can they get something as valuable as a good catcher in return? I doubt whatever they get would be as valuable to the Twins as a good catcher.

Posted

I don't know what to do about Vazquez.  Keeping him seems right unless and until they have a solid backup catcher to replace him; Tony Wolters scared me to death in 2023.  Weak backups are plentiful around the league but having someone who can actually step up if the #1 guy is gone for a while is not to be taken lightly.  Acquiring the right guy won't involve a trade of a mere relief prospect or similar small prospect capital.  And you will do well to get anything better than a bag of balls in return for trading Vazquez away, due to the contract.  It's worth exploring at some prospect cost.

What really bugs me is the indecision I perceive regarding the farm system.  At AAA you have Chris Williams who they can't seem to quite decide is, or isn't, a catcher.  They played him there 25 games.  At AA there is Alex Isola, who caught in 15 games.  Jefferson Morales at high-A, 27 games.  All are bat-first guys, age 26, 25 and 24 respectively, You'll see them mentioned in some prospect rundowns that purport to show catching depth in the system.

I don't spot injury as an explanation for the numbers, and I don't understand the difficulty with telling any of them, "you're not a catcher, concentrate on hitting," or else telling them, "your bat will be marginal at first base, catching is your ticket to the majors."  Fish or cut bait, basically.  Catching a couple dozen games a year does not develop a catcher for the rigors of being even a backup in the majors. 

And if all three are ruled out as serious catching prospects, the pool seems a bit thin on young guys whose bats look like will ever play; Camargo is kind of it, when it comes to maybe-major-league-ready, and I don't know what his defense is like. Banuelos put up good hitting numbers at AA but he is 27 and one wonders why he wasn't up at AAA to pair with Camargo, leaving Wolters to fill in occasionally and be ready.  Maybe Winkel's bat will progress, ditto some guys like Cardenas at high-A, but all those are guys far away in the pipeline and only a fraction of pipeline guys ever come through.

At least they made a decision on Charles Mack and cut him from high-A.  Whoopie.  :)

Posted

Can’t trade his salary unless wrapped with a controllable prospect. Could maybe make a trade if another team’s main catcher goes down with injury.

Not sure what the author was describing when he said this is about a “low impact position”? Catcher is certainly as important if not more than any of the 7 other fielding positions.

Jeffers OPS lead all catchers. Let him play 60-65% of the time but keep him fresh. Vazquez was top 5 in defensive metrics in AL - great for the back-up. $11M for two good overall catchers that are durable is a good #!

We’re good behind the plate.

Posted
2 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Jeffers OPS lead all catchers. Let him play 60-65% of the time but keep him fresh. Vazquez was top 5 in defensive metrics in AL - great for the back-up. $11M for two good overall catchers that are durable is a good #!

We’re good behind the plate.

This is a fine way to look at it.  The only question is, can we do better?

Posted

The only problem with trading Vasquez is that you have to replace him with another veteran catcher to help out Jeffers. 

The free agent market is weak with just a couple of possible targets. They are better to keep their duo together.

Posted
2 hours ago, saviking said:

Good reasoning Karbo. Maybe the solution is play Jeffrey's 60% of the time and Vasquez 40% ..

This is probably what will happen.  I can't imagine they used the split and kept both guys healthy all year and will flip to an 80%+ solution next year.  I remember advocating for trying to sign Sandy Leon to a minor league deal this spring just in case.  This is some of the most important depth they have, I think it still gets thin quickly.

Underrated story so far is how much Jeffers improved defensively.  Couldn't do anything with the running game last year but was quite good this year.  Combine that with the rule changes to increase running the improvement was very significant. 

One of the best measures is that I haven't heard a single complaint from Vazquez or Vazquez adjacent about the postseason usage.  Pure speculation, but it seems to me that Vazquez recognizes how good Jeffers got.

Posted
3 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

$11M for two good overall catchers that are durable is a good #!

If Camargo is a serviceable backup, then what's better than two good overall catchers for $1.8M?

Posted
4 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

If Camargo is a serviceable backup, then what's better than two good overall catchers for $1.8M?

Maybe a loose analogy is needed here. Camargo is serviceable as a catcher to be used in case of injury in the same manner that Simeon Woods Richardson or Cole Sands are serviceable as starting pitchers in case of injury. 

Christian Vazquez is a clear MLB catcher in the same manner in which Joe Ryan and Bailey Ober are clear MLB starting pitchers. A team can do better but a team can do much worse too.

The Twins are lucky to have two good MLB catchers.

Posted
6 hours ago, Cody Pirkl said:

The 24-year-old spent all of 2024 in St. Paul with a league-average .253/.323/.503 slash line.

I appreciate the league average qualifier. He had a 100 wRC+. In 2021 it was 88 in high A. He repeated high A to start 2022 and it was 121 then he played the bulk of the season in AA at 92. Last year he was league average at 100.

Jeffers and Rortvedt performed better relative to league. Jeffer’s wRC+ in the minors ranged 109-203 with a AA of 151. Rortvedt was 101 in AA and AAA and 132 in high A. Last year Rortvedt was 128 in AAA. I think our perception of Rortvedt was as a defense first catcher yet perceptions of Camargo are for his bat but relative to league Rortvedt was better while coming up with the Twins. It is partly the illusion of the run scoring context in AAA last year.

Camargo is improving. He needs more time to develop his bat and reduce strike outs if he is going to help in the majors.

 

Posted

You are missing the point Vazquez is on the wrong side of 30.When Mauer hit 30 people said he needed to change positions.Even the Royals are talking about Perz changing positions.They had him at 1st and DH.The playoffs where a bad sign of things to come.Jeffers was terrible at the plate with runners in scoring position or not.I know you are not going to win any games striking out 52 times in 4 games and Jeffers had 8 of them.Which is now another problem why are they retaining the hitting coach.

Posted
1 hour ago, David Maro said:

When Mauer hit 30 people said he needed to change positions.

Didn't matter what "people said."  When Mauer hit 30 and 4 months he suffered a debilitating concussion that dictated a position change.  Age was not the issue, and would not have been for some time yet to come.

Posted

Another article framed as if the Pohlads are shopping at the Goodwill and the most important thing to do this offseason is is cut salaries. How about an article about what they need to do to make this playoff team better so they can advance another round next year? This team should not be risking a shot at a title to save $10M.

They're unlikely to find someone better than Vazquez this offseason and they need to improve CF and SP more than C so they might as well keep him.

Posted
9 hours ago, rv78 said:

Another article about the problem the Twins have at the catcher position. I don't see having 2 quality catchers as a dilemma or his remaining $20M contract. If the Twins really need to cut payroll, why not an article about how they can get out of the Buxton or Correa contracts? Those 2 players were equally as bad this year as Vazquez was and cost CONSIDERABLY more.

Because both players have guaranteed no trade contracts. There is no getting out of either contract. 
 

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