Buxton hurt again

[CRF]

He was removed from the game last night after two AB's, due to more discomfort in his knee. Not good news. There should be more info today. 

[adjacent]

That is why Stevenson, I guess

[stringer bell]

Not good news at all. Without announcing it, the it appears that the Twins tried Plan B with Buxton—that is to shut him down so that the ongoing injuries (hip & knee) had a chance to get right.
 

One 7-inning stint in the outfield followed by a day off and then 5 innings as a DH and there’s more knee pain. 

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, CRF said:

He was removed from the game last night after two AB's, due to more discomfort in his knee. Not good news. There should be more info today. 

How could anyone give this news thumbs up?

[FlyingFinn]

15 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

How could anyone give this news thumbs up?

Maybe it was "thanks for the information" because they didn't know about it.

[Linus]

This doesn’t bode well for the future. I want Royce to be working out in CF all winter. Just too bad - watching Buck in CF has been one of the highlights of my baseball watching life. 

[MABB1959]

Oh no!  Needs to be a serious conversation about medical retirement.   He has a lot of money already and more important a lot of life to live.  He will be able to spend more time and focus on his family.  There is a lot of  good things about being a family man. Joe Mauser really seems to be embracing it.  Most of us know how quickly it goes by.  He would be a great little league coach.  

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

One 7-inning stint in the outfield followed by a day off and then 5 innings as a DH and there’s more knee pain. 

I'm sure I won't get the answer to the only question that I have. 

Did this discomfort develop or intensify during the game or was he aware of the issue before the game?   

[chpettit19]

Guess we got our answer to how long he could last in CF this year. This is getting real depressing for him. I can't imagine the frustration he must be going through. I'd guess retirement hasn't seriously crossed his mind, but it can't be a thought that's too far down the road for him if this doesn't improve. 

I think it's time to do any procedure they think can help, and give him from now until February off. This can't be who he is the rest of his career. It's not tenable for anyone involved.

[ewen21]

Is it unreasonable to assume the Twins have looked at that knee, scoped it, treated it, monitored it, scrutinized it nine ways to Sunday?  He was a central figure in their marketing these last few years and they invested long term.   If there’s an injury that puts him on the IL that’s one thing.  Right now it’s soreness.
 

He is the only one who can feel the soreness.  He’s the one who reports the soreness and that decides whether he can go or not at this point.  The medical staff can only do what it does and if all monitoring equipment doesn’t come up with any specific injury then we are talking about soreness preventing him from playing.  I honestly don’t know what to make of that.

[Vanimal46]

33 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Guess we got our answer to how long he could last in CF this year. This is getting real depressing for him. I can't imagine the frustration he must be going through. I'd guess retirement hasn't seriously crossed his mind, but it can't be a thought that's too far down the road for him if this doesn't improve. 

I think it's time to do any procedure they think can help, and give him from now until February off. This can't be who he is the rest of his career. It's not tenable for anyone involved.

Couldn’t agree more. It’s really sad to see and read about this is a fan. It has to be torturous for Buxton personally. It is probably time to look into the more “career saving” procedures… Unless he is set to retire this offseason. 

[SwainZag]

Man... not that it's surprising, but this just bums me out.  

[CRF]

This has to be very tough on Buxton mentally. I'm sure he's well aware of his rep as someone who can't stay on the field for one reason or another. Someone who's fragile and always injured. Seems to me, that this injury to his knee has been kind of a mystery right from the get-go. If I remember correctly, he got scoped for a patellar tendon issue, and to "clean up" some loose particles in his knee. Obviously, no surgery is minor, but as knee injuries go, this was considered a minor procedure. It's not an ACL or MCL tear and reconstruction. We've all seen players come back from those major knee injuries/surgeries to be at, or close, to 100% after. It happens all the time in all major sports. Sometimes even multiple knee repairs. It looks like Buxton's knee condition is chronic and will be an issue going forward. I have to believe that the Twins medical team should know the seriousness and extent of the problem. Maybe something got missed and more surgery is needed? Maybe it'll be something that Buxton will have to deal with in terms of how much pain or soreness, he can put up with and play with? I don't know the answer. Hopefully, we get more clarification over the next several days.

[wabene]

10 minutes ago, CRF said:

Obviously, no surgery is minor, but as knee injuries go, this was considered a minor procedure. It's not an ACL or MCL tear and reconstruction. We've all seen players come back from those major knee injuries/surgeries to be at, or close, to 100% after

I'd argue the opposite. Tendon repairs can be done multiple times to the same joint. They can result in a completely healthy joint (as long as the cartilage is intact). It is cartilage damage that is the most serious injury for an athlete. It cannot be repaired, only mitigated. There is no current technology to replace cartilage. This sort of degenerative damage is what leads to knee replacement. It is becoming obvious that this is where Buxton is at, unfortunately. 

[stringer bell]

26 minutes ago, CRF said:

This has to be very tough on Buxton mentally. I'm sure he's well aware of his rep as someone who can't stay on the field for one reason or another. Someone who's fragile and always injured. Seems to me, that this injury to his knee has been kind of a mystery right from the get-go. If I remember correctly, he got scoped for a patellar tendon issue, and to "clean up" some loose particles in his knee. Obviously, no surgery is minor, but as knee injuries go, this was considered a minor procedure. It's not an ACL or MCL tear and reconstruction. We've all seen players come back from those major knee injuries/surgeries to be at, or close, to 100% after. It happens all the time in all major sports. Sometimes even multiple knee repairs. It looks like Buxton's knee condition is chronic and will be an issue going forward. I have to believe that the Twins medical team should know the seriousness and extent of the problem. Maybe something got missed and more surgery is needed? Maybe it'll be something that Buxton will have to deal with in terms of how much pain or soreness, he can put up with and play with? I don't know the answer. Hopefully, we get more clarification over the next several days.

As they did with Kirilloff, it appears the Twins tried the least invasive medical procedure first to deal with the medical issue. My first boss called it "parsimony of treatment".  What's next? Will he ever be the same?  I expect we'll find out more today, but the whole story hasn't been presented yet. The words we haven't seen yet are "chronic" and "degenerative", Given how he hasn't been able to get through the injured knee and hip in over a year, there has to be some threat to his career.

[wabene]

14 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

As they did with Kirilloff, it appears the Twins tried the least invasive medical procedure first to deal with the medical issue. My first boss called it "parsimony of treatment".  What's next? Will he ever be the same?  I expect we'll find out more today, but the whole story hasn't been presented yet. The words we haven't seen yet are "chronic" and "degenerative", Given how he hasn't been able to get through the injured knee and hip in over a year, there has to be some threat to his career.

This is a good point and if true, offers some hope. 

[LastOnePicked]

After spending much of the summer with medical staff telling a family member that things will "only get progressively worse from this point on," I've seen how unhelpful that idea can be to someone's self of well-being.

So, I don't know. I hope Buxton can heal and recover and have a very healthy and productive baseball career. As a fan, I simply don't expect it at this point. In fact, I have no expectations for him. Well past time to let go of any trajectories we had in mind for a storied career here.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

By the way, hats off to Phil Miller for at least showing interest in the Buxton saga this season, and tweeting out something about this most recent setback:

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

All these other guys, nothing. Buxton is a big deal around here, yet nothing from Dan Hayes, Darren Wolfson, Do-Hyoung Park, Souhan, LENIII, etc. Don’t let your tee times get interrupted by a Buxton update, fellas. 🙂 anyone I miss? 

By the way, kudos to Ted Schwerzler, who takes some heat for some of his takes, but is the hardest working guy on the Twins beat right now, hands down. Thank you. @Ted Schwerzler

[madtowntwin]

I am still consternated at how both player and training staff "sat" on this knee all of last off-season....Buxton arrived at Spring Training with the joint already being an issue after exiting the regular season last year in the same manner....What gives?? Given that, would it not be prudent to surgically correct the issue STAT if such approach is feasible?? This is the first time I've heard Patellar Tendinitis as descriptor...Has this been the issue all along or only the most recent knee issue for Byron? The control of information by the Twins and apparent medical training staff ineptitude is frustrating double play. Hopefully Buxton has private clinician input to make all this right if that is still a possibility. He is a game changer when healthy. Please get healthy Byron. 

[insagt1]

I'm ready to internalize that his  baseball career as we knew it, is pretty much over. He has far too many injuries to overcome and he can't seem to do it. He is not a DH...at least not with the nagging injuries that I suspect have never gone away this season.

He tries hard, but his body won't let him succeed. I have to believe the Twins are already making plans to move forward without him. A terrible story to a guy who could have been on top of the baseball world.

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

As they did with Kirilloff, it appears the Twins tried the least invasive medical procedure first to deal with the medical issue. My first boss called it "parsimony of treatment".  What's next? Will he ever be the same?  I expect we'll find out more today, but the whole story hasn't been presented yet. The words we haven't seen yet are "chronic" and "degenerative", Given how he hasn't been able to get through the injured knee and hip in over a year, there has to be some threat to his career.

I have been wondering the same.  Not knowing what the injury is, has it advanced to the point when a significant last ditch procedure is called for?  Like a miss all of 2024 type thing?

[Heezy1323]

1 hour ago, wabene said:

I'd argue the opposite. Tendon repairs can be done multiple times to the same joint. They can result in a completely healthy joint (as long as the cartilage is intact). It is cartilage damage that is the most serious injury for an athlete. It cannot be repaired, only mitigated. There is no current technology to replace cartilage. This sort of degenerative damage is what leads to knee replacement. It is becoming obvious that this is where Buxton is at, unfortunately. 

I have heard rumblings (I have no specific information or anything like that) that the issue in his knee is as you say- damage to the surface cartilage. I have heard the area is in what's called the trochlea, which is the area in the front of the knee where the patella (kneecap) glides. 

You are mostly correct about the current technology. We do have some different methods to 'replace' the cartilage, but none of them make it 'good as new'. And there have not been too many instances where these procedures have been able to stand up to the rigors of professional sports for any considerable length of time.

Some people, for reasons unclear, can tolerate even large cartilage lesions in their knee with minimal or no symptoms. Other people can have significant symptoms from even a small area of cartilage injury. It's highly variable.

With the majority of these lesions in elite level athletes, we often attempt a 'clean-up' type procedure first, which is what I suspect Buxton had last year. This includes shaving some loose cartilage away and removing any floating pieces, etc. But this procedure does not 'fix' the root cause of the issue. The irregularity of the gliding cartilage remains. In many cases, people do well despite the irregularity (I don't always understand why it happens that way, it just does sometimes). In other cases, people continue to have trouble with the area, in which case the choices get more difficult. You can treat with rest/rehab/injections (as he has been). You can try to repeat the same surgery hoping for different results (always risky). Or you can try one of a handful of types of cartilage restoration surgeries. Without knowing the details on exact size, location, depth and several other factors, it's hard to say which of these would be best for someone like Byron. But they all require fairly lengthy recoveries. (A recent athlete with something like this is Lonzo Ball, who will miss the entire upcoming NBA season).

From my perspective, it's also hard to know if this current issue he is having is actually patella tendinitis (totally possible from trying to ramp up activity) versus 'he is having pain in the front of the knee, and we are going to use the term 'patella tendinitis' to report it, but in reality he is having pain due to the cartilage damage area.' These two things will often result in similar symptoms, and it can be hard to differentiate which is the true cause of pain. 

In any case, a big bummer for Byron. I sure hope he can get things settled down and get back to roaming CF at 100mph like we all love to watch him do. 

As always, that's my $0.02. I am not a Twins team physician and have not examined Byron or seen any of his imaging or anything like that. This is purely speculative on my part. 

[ewen21]

28 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

All these other guys, nothing. Buxton is a big deal around here, yet nothing from Dan Hayes, Darren Wolfson, Do-Hyoung Park, Souhan, LENIII, etc. Don’t let your tee times get interrupted by a Buxton update, fellas. 🙂 anyone I miss? 

By the way, kudos to Ted Schwerzler, who takes some heat for some of his takes, but is the hardest working guy on the Twins beat right now, hands down. Thank you. @Ted Schwerzler

I wish I could give this ten likes.  Soreness is all we really get, though.  At no point during the season did theTwins expand on it beyond that.  Even when Rocco went on that  "He'd be out there if he could!  But he can't!" rant he spoke in very general terms.  I thought it was a silly display at the time, but that was actually an effective rant that covered the situation for the Twins.  It stopped the Twins media corps to ask any more questions about it.  Not a single follow up question.  Didn't seem to warrant much of conversation in the press.

Without knowing any actual diagnosis one can surmise this has only to do with Buxton saying "the knee is sore" and the Twins simply pulling him and playing cautious.  Is it simply: Buxton doesn't play when he feels sore?  How about Souhan being a reporter and getting some actual information rather than chastising fans for being "cork sniffers" and "snooty"

They should grill Rocco until he erupts, if you ask me

[Mike Sixel]

Massive bummer. I hope he does what's right for his long term health. Fans, as I saw in another thread, questioning his toughness are the worst people. 

[TwinsAlmostWin]

I agree with everyone that it has to be incredibly tough on Buxton personally. It would be very difficult to look yourself in the mirror and know that your identity as a baseball player might be done with. Good thing is, there is life after baseball. I'm not a doctor but seeing this "injury" after resting for how long (2 months?) is the nail in the coffin. The idea Buxton will ever be a superstar player for 100+ games a year is unfortunately completely gone. Half his value came from his impeccable defense, but his body can't even hold up for a whole year while strictly being a DH. As much as I feel bad for him, I am still a fan of the Twins and it is tough to see so much money tied up in a "superstar" player who will never materialize. His contract will impact the team for the foreseeable future, and IMO will hamper the team from getting over the proverbial hump. The Twins are a perennial borderline playoff team who needs Buxton's money to spend on value, but that won't happen while he is under contract. Sad day. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, ewen21 said:

I wish I could give this ten likes.  Soreness is all we really get, though.  At no point during the season did theTwins expand on it beyond that.  Even when Rocco went on that  "He'd be out there if he could!  But he can't!" rant he spoke in very general terms.  I thought it was a silly display at the time, but that was actually an effective rant that covered the situation for the Twins.  It stopped the Twins media corps to ask any more questions about it.  Not a single follow up question.  Didn't seem to warrant much of conversation in the press.

Without knowing any actual diagnosis one can surmise this has only to do with Buxton saying "the knee is sore" and the Twins simply pulling him and playing cautious.  Is it simply: Buxton doesn't play when he feels sore?  How about Souhan being a reporter and getting some actual information rather than chastising fans for being "cork sniffers" and "snooty"

They should grill Rocco until he erupts, if you ask me

To what end? Nothing changes if they do that. 

[Fatbat]

4 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

How could anyone give this news thumbs up?

Because it allows Buck to sit out until March to get his body healed up. He isn’t going to help this year one legged. 

[Fatbat]

Isn’t it obvious the Buck needs surgery?  Get him rebuilt and ready for March 2024. Next man up for 2023. 

[Squirrel]

20 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Isn’t it obvious the Buck needs surgery?  Get him rebuilt and ready for March 2024. Next man up for 2023. 

He did have an off-season procedure after the season ended in 2022. I don’t think it’s that simple