Over Managing Manager of the Year Award

[Riverbrian]

The Twins are currently down 4-0. The top of the 4th is just getting started. 

The Giants used on opener in the 1st inning with right handed John Brebbia.

Left handed Sean Manaea entered the game in the 2nd inning.  

After a 1-2-3 first inning. Rocco reacted to this by pinch hitting Solano for Julien before he even swung a bat in the cleanup spot and then later in the 3rd inning. Kyle Garlick pinch hit for Alex Kirilloff. 

Here's a note for opposing managers. Start an opposite hand opener and Rocco will over react early. 

I understand why he did it. He shouldn't have done it. Yeah Manaea splits are worse against Right Handed Hitters but let's face it... Manaea has an ERA of 7.81 this season... so how many innings did you think Manaea would throw? Did you just fall for Gabe Kapler saying "Hey Look Your Shoes Untied" because I'll bet a Right Hander is in the game before the 6th and you've... well... whatever. I hope he wasn't expecting Junis in the 2nd because he just threw yesterday. Where did he think Kapler was going after the opener?  

Rocco has just wrapped up the Over Managing Manager of the Year Award. Nobody else will top it. He can start writing his acceptance speech immediately after the game. 

I've been on his side... He may have lost me tonight. 

[Winston Smith]

On pace for an 84 win season in the heavy hitting AL Central and all you can do is complain.

[Foxman]

Thank you for explaining why Kiriloff was pulled.  I was worried it was his wrist.  I agree with everything you said, and I agree.  When will manages stop playing matchups?  Rocco played ball, he would have hated his Magee if he was swinging .340AVG and he got pulled early because it was a lefty.  AK is locked in, let him see if he can hit a lefty.  One AB is pathetic, but better than zero like Julien.

 

[Riverbrian]

Hey Edouard, You are betting clean up tonight. 

Psych! 

 

[h2oface]

So tired of this BS. Baldelli is out of control.

[Winston Smith]

15 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Hey Edouard, You are betting clean up tonight. 

Psych! 

 

After you unfairly went after Rocco the Twins have decided to give Rocco a contract extension. to sooth his feelings.

[Riverbrian]

9 minutes ago, Winston Smith said:

After you unfairly went after Rocco the Twins have decided to give Rocco a contract extension. to sooth his feelings.

That's OK... As long as there was a meeting before hand asking Rocco how he got beat by the opener strategy especially when he came from the Rays organization that invented it... followed by telling him to never do that again. 

Update -- Kyle Garlick... the guy that they won't play against right handers but now has to face a right hander because of this early move... Hits a home run against a right hander. Which is something that Rocco would have never allowed to happen so Rocco gets it right by getting it wrong. 

How can anyone not love the game of baseball? 

[Riverbrian]

24 minutes ago, h2oface said:

So tired of this BS. Baldelli is out of control.

Tonight he was

[NotAboutWinning]

The phrase "hot mess" comes to mind 🤬

[Jocko87]

On the day his extension was announced.  Can not make  this up. 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/05/twins-rocco-baldelli-signed-through-at-least-2025.html 

[LastOnePicked]

31 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

On the day his extension was announced.  Can not make  this up. 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/05/twins-rocco-baldelli-signed-through-at-least-2025.html 

Ugh. Gonna be some very rough years ahead for this team, led by a manager who just can't win and a FO that just can't learn.

[D.C Twins]

Baldi extension is the WORST news by far this year..... total gut punch

 

[howeda7]

4 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

The Twins are currently down 4-0. The top of the 4th is just getting started. 

The Giants used on opener in the 1st inning with right handed John Brebbia.

Left handed Sean Manaea entered the game in the 2nd inning.  

After a 1-2-3 first inning. Rocco reacted to this by pinch hitting Solano for Julien before he even swung a bat in the cleanup spot and then later in the 3rd inning. Kyle Garlick pinch hit for Alex Kirilloff. 

Here's a note for opposing managers. Start an opposite hand opener and Rocco will over react early. 

I understand why he did it. He shouldn't have done it. Yeah Manaea splits are worse against Right Handed Hitters but let's face it... Manaea has an ERA of 7.81 this season... so how many innings did you think Manaea would throw? Did you just fall for Gabe Kapler saying "Hey Look Your Shoes Untied" because I'll bet a Right Hander is in the game before the 6th and you've... well... whatever. I hope he wasn't expecting Junis in the 2nd because he just threw yesterday. Where did he think Kapler was going after the opener?  

Rocco has just wrapped up the Over Managing Manager of the Year Award. Nobody else will top it. He can start writing his acceptance speech immediately after the game. 

I've been on his side... He may have lost me tonight. 

Fire Rocco. Fire Falvey too. Let Thad and Toby Gardenhire pilot the Titanic to its resting place. 

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, LastOnePicked said:

Ugh. Gonna be some very rough years ahead for this team, led by a manager who just can't win and a FO that just can't learn.

Sad but true ....

[Squirrel]

Doesn’t mean he can’t be released. Contracts mean nothing. Players get DFA’d all the time, or outright released. Managers, too. Molitor was let go mid-contract. That said, I’ve always been pretty indifferent to the effect the manager has over difference-making wins and losses. Can they affect the outcome of a single game here and there? Yes. But you know who has the bigger affect over wins and losses? The players. How many games have we lost via not scoring in a bases loaded situation? How many times via BP implosion? A manager can’t swing the bat or pitch the ball for them. They can only play the hand they’ve been dealt.  Change for the sake of change won’t change the outcome. Imo, unless there are serious clubhouse issues, which doesn’t seem to be the case.

[notoriousgod71]

5 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Ugh. Gonna be some very rough years ahead for this team, led by a manager who just can't win and a FO that just can't learn.

I would love to know what inspired this move. There's not one thing he does that I like.

[Squirrel]

27 minutes ago, notoriousgod71 said:

I would love to know what inspired this move. There's not one thing he does that I like.

As if that’s a prerequisite. ‘Do what notoriousgod71 likes’, check. Do what RiverBrian wants. Check. Be who LastOnePicked wants. Check. Sorry, but Lol. 

Who knows what the criteria is. Doesn’t mean he can’t be let go at any time, I don’t find him particularly inspiring from my perspective in the cheap seats, but meh, whatever. I’m more concerned with the performers who aren’t performing. I don’t think that’s a manager issue. Could be an organization issue. If that’s the case, firing Baldelli will have little affect.

[CRF]

It's true that it ultimately comes down to the players and how they're performing. Right now, even though we're still a couple games over .500, they're not doing much to win games. I see a .500, or below that, team. If we pitch well, and hit well, we can overcome anything the manager does. I've always been in the camp that believes Rocco is in way over his head. I don't care for him as a manager and I doubt he'll ever do anything to sway my opinion. 

[Riverbrian]

I have participated in a lot of discussion lately (and in the past) that can leave the impression that I'm anti-platoon. 

To be clear - I'm not anti-platoon. I am anti-strict adherence to the platoon.  

To be clear - This team has platooned it's way to a bad offense. It's not the platoon's fault that the offense is bad. The offense is bad because the players are playing bad. A platoon hitter isn't going to make this offense better. We need HITTERS... the kind of hitter that we are not going to pinch hit and Rocco let everyone know last night that the hitters that we need will not be Kirilloff or Julien so we can adjust our expectations now and move on from this pair. 

As far as I'm concerned in regards to our use of the platoon... Last night was a bridge too far. 

Our young clean up hitter was pulled before he swung a bat in reaction to a 7.81 ERA left hander taking the mound after the opener. He set the lineup to left handed based on one inning of a right handed opener and then re-set the lineup to right handed in the 2nd inning based on a left handed 7.81 ERA pitcher entering the game. The blind adherence to platooning just got cartoonish.   

We don't need MORE platoon hitters. We need HITTERS! We need hitters who can hit both hands, we need hitters that nobody is going to pinch hit for. If a player needs to be platooned... he is not the type of hitter we need. We got enough of those guys and they are failing at the moment. 

Did we call Kirilloff up to be a platoon hitter or are we hoping that he is better than that? Are we developing Kirilloff to be a platoon hitter or are we hoping that he is better than that? We have Kirilloff for the next 5 years before he hits free agency. Are we going to develop a platoon hitter for the next 5 years? 

I guess so. That is exactly what they are doing. Kirilloff didn't start against left-handers on Friday and Saturday so he obviously isn't good enough to face them in the eyes of the front office and he won't be good enough to face them in the future due to not being allowed to face them. 

I have been hopeful that Kirilloff develops into a plus plus hitter. It won't happen. The Twins are going to minimize his development to be nothing more than a strong side platoon that will need to be pinch hit for when Josh Hader enters the game.

Or worse... when Sean Manaea enters the game.  

Will Kirilloff have bad career splits when we look at his numbers 3 years from now.?

Yes he will. The Twins are going to make sure that he does via usage.  

Julien? Future platoon hitter? Yep... future platoon hitter. He can't even face a 7.81 ERA left-hander. 

We don't need more platoon hitters. WE NEED HITTERS!  

It won't be Kirilloff or Julien. We can cast our eyes down the road. 

[Major League Ready]

Sometimes the most obvious answer is correct.  They got 4 hits.  That won't win many games.  When Baldelli starts taking ABs, I will blame it on him.  Until then, I am going to assign blame to the players who don't perform.  

[Dan Fitzgerald]

We should also wonder why we are leading MLB in striking out.Seems to me the hitting coach should be scrutinized along with Rocco

[vulturepaj]

By all means, let's get Singles Donny in there and AAAA Garlick as soon as possible.  I was outraged by this move and still am.

[TopGunn#22]

There really is no defense for Rocco on this one.  He bats Kirilloff leadoff (a guy who clearly fits as a #3, #4, or #5 hitter).  he bats Julien cleanup (a guy who clearly has been a leadoff or #2 hitter).  Julien draws a LOT of walks no matter if the pitcher is LH or RH.  So Rocco effectively empties his bench EARLY in the game, taking two promising young hitters and getting one AB out of Kirilloff.  Twins hitters struck out 16 times last night and currently lead Major League baseball in strikeouts.  That's a LOT of unproductive outs.  It's also the logical reason we've been historically bad hitting with the bases loaded.  The extension for Rocco is annoying, but it's not my money.  If this team continues to underachieve the Pohlad's will just have to buy him out.  

Bring back Paul Molitor!!  I know he probably isn't interested in the daily grind of managing a big league team any longer, but I miss having a manager that wasn't so handcuffed to what a spreadsheet tells him he should do.  After 2019 and the Covid shortened 2021 season Rocco has disappointed.  I think we can do better.

[chpettit19]

I'm going to start by saying I thought the early pinch hitting was absolutely ridiculous last night. Wasn't a fan of it then, and am not a fan of it now. 

That being said...the Twins had 4 hits, and 4 walks last night. 2 of the hits, and 3 of the walks, came from the 2 guys who entered the game as pinch hitters in the 2nd and 3rd. I don't know that we really expected Kirilloff and Julien to do better than reaching base 5 times, with 1 homerun mixed in. 

As a general rule I will never think pinch hitting in the 2nd and 3rd for your 1 and 4 hole hitters is smart. Why shorten your bench so quick? But those moves didn't kill the team last night. Buxton swinging at a first pitch breaking ball off the plate from a reliever who just entered the game was worse for the team. Buxton leaving 3 men in scoring position with 2 outs was far worse for the team. The players lost the game, even if I'll never understand Rocco's moves in the slightest.

[Nine of twelve]

I also thought Baldelli overmanaged in last night's game. I wouldn't say that has been true on a consistent basis, though.

Every major league manager has the goal of winning as many games as possible over the course of a season, with the exception of those managing teams that are in fall training mode after being eliminated from the postseason. That means trying, as TK was noted for saying, to put the players in a position where they can succeed. I'm sure that's what he was trying to accomplish last night, but pinch hitting for your DH when he hasn't even batted yet, well...

I know there are many who want the Twins to replace Baldelli. There's nothing wrong with having that opinion. But it's more difficult and more important to hire a manager than it is to fire one. I'd like those who advocate for making this move to list candidates for hire or at the very minimum to list specific traits you feel the next manager should have.

[wabene]

57 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

As far as I'm concerned in regards to our use of the platoon... Last night was a bridge too far. 

That's funny I posted this exact sentiment in the game recap. I was excited we were going to platoon more this year because I felt it was something we weren't taking enough advantage of in the past. Well this is too far. Our best pure hitting prospect slashing 333/434/600/1.034 can't face Manea? Ridiculous

[DJL44]

4 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The players lost the game, even if I'll never understand Rocco's moves in the slightest.

Agree. 

[OvertheHill]

Forgetting the numbers for just a minute, I think this style of managing is really hard on the fans. Obviously with the money tied up in CC and Buck, they're going to be the marketing "face" of the franchise, and they are going to be accommodated in every way as far as opportunities. But IMO there's a number of guys we need to see play against <gasp> pitching from both sides, to know if they are the future of the franchise. This style of management ignores the need for players to have a role, understand a role, get into the flow, whatever. As a fan I'm just left wondering. I can't imagine what it feels like to be penciled in high in the batting order and get pinch hit for before your first AB.

[Woof Bronzer]

44 minutes ago, Dan Fitzgerald said:

We should also wonder why we are leading MLB in striking out.Seems to me the hitting coach should be scrutinized along with Rocco

The team operates under the uber-analytics fallacy that strikeouts "are just a type of out".  This is factually inaccurate, but that's what they believe, so they teach their players to swing as hard as the can every single time and not to worry about striking out.  So the hitting coach is teaching exactly what the FO wants.  

To this FO, strikeouts are not the problem - they're the plan.  

[CoasterProductions]

9 hours ago, D.C Twins said:

Baldi extension is the WORST news by far this year..... total gut punch

 

I did not know he was extended how much longer is he here for?