As MLB Trade Deadline Looms, Who’s to Blame for Minnesota Twins’ 2025 Letdown?

[tony&rodney]

Perhaps the Twins could ramp up the cost of relief pitchers by acquiring Emmanuel Clase. Emmanuel Rodriguez, Andrew Morris, and Amick do it? Or EmRod and Zebby?

[Fire Dan Gladden]

I have read the article, but skipped the comments...

Regardless of what you think of the FO, they are very low on the "blame" totem pole. If the Twins were successful, the would be very low on the "credit" totem pole. The FO has had their hands tied for the better part of two years now, being unable to acquire salary or make fundamental changes to the team due to a pending sale.

IMO opinion, they have done a decent job with prospects (both draft and acquisitions), though the jury is still out on the long term MLB success of the current wave.

I can understand the heat on Rocco and his group. We-as-fans see many perceived questionable decisions, though we generally do not have the context to understand why these decisions are made.

Injuries and performance basically rule the day. Players not performing consistently have made this team painful to watch at time. 

[tony&rodney]

31 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

The FO has had their hands tied for the better part of two years now, being unable to acquire salary or make fundamental changes to the team due to a pending sale.

Does this mean that the FO was not allowed to trade players? Maybe. I have no idea. Seems like 2023 (end of year/season) was an ideal time to trade high on several players who had strong outcomes but possessed a few obvious flaws. Perhaps nobody would bite. We can't know what conversations could have taken place. The same can be said of 2024 (eoy/s). One of the options for a FO is to be proactive in moving players before their weaknesses are exposed. Again, this may have been tried. However, if the FO was forbidden to complete transactions that is another thing. I don't know how that could be ... but it could. Unlike many, I never thought the budget was a barrier. I still do not. I do believe that the ownership -front office relationship is important. We would likely agree that the public doesn't know all these things. 

[Vanimal46]

16 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Does this mean that the FO was not allowed to trade players? Maybe. I have no idea. Seems like 2023 (end of year/season) was an ideal time to trade high on several players who had strong outcomes but possessed a few obvious flaws. Perhaps nobody would bite. We can't know what conversations could have taken place. The same can be said of 2024 (eoy/s). One of the options for a FO is to be proactive in moving players before their weaknesses are exposed. Again, this may have been tried. However, if the FO was forbidden to complete transactions that is another thing. I don't know how that could be ... but it could. Unlike many, I never thought the budget was a barrier. I still do not. I do believe that the ownership -front office relationship is important. We would likely agree that the public doesn't know all these things. 

It will be shocking if the Pohlads meddle with any roster moves. As you’ve said over and over, this is the roster Falvey wants. He’s consistently said in media interviews he has confidence in this current roster. 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

It will be shocking if the Pohlads meddle with any roster moves. As you’ve said over and over, this is the roster Falvey wants. He’s consistently said in media interviews he has confidence in this current roster. 

I'm ok with him saying that in public. It's never a great idea to rip your employees in public....I hope he's not saying that in private. 

[redstorm]

"If the Twins are sellers at the 2025 trade deadline, then the front office has failed."

It sounds like a paradox, but at this point if they AREN'T sellers at the deadline, then they will have failed dramatically worse.

[Major League Ready]

I would 40% on the front office and development staff.  They have certainly not been a complete failure because the roster is filled with guys that should be at the major league level.  However, they have failed to produce difference makers outside of Buxton and Ryan.  Yes, I give them credit for Ryan because that kind of acquisition has been nearly as instrumental to success as drafting for the most successful low revenue teams.

I put 40% of the revenue disparity.  If the Twins are equally proficient to the Dodgers / Yankees in terms of drafting, and developing, the revenue advantage means the Dodgers advantage in terms of building a roster equates to adding Ohtani, Yamamoto, Snell, Bett's & Freemen.  Should we pretend this is not a factor?

20% is on the players.

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I would 40% on the front office and development staff.  They have certainly not been a complete failure because the roster is filled with guys that should be at the major league level.  However, they have failed to produce difference makers outside of Buxton and Ryan.  Yes, I give them credit for Ryan because that kind of acquisition has been nearly as instrumental to success as drafting for the most successful low revenue teams.

I put 40% of the revenue disparity.  If the Twins are equally proficient to the Dodgers / Yankees in terms of drafting, and developing, the revenue advantage means the Dodgers advantage in terms of building a roster equates to adding Ohtani, Yamamoto, Snell, Bett's & Freemen.  Should we pretend this is not a factor?

20% is on the players.

Never change.....

[TheLeviathan]

3 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

They spent $150M Correa's first year (2022).  In 2023 they had a record payroll of $156M.  Of course, they had a $50M windfall from BAM that year so I think it's safe to assume they did not expect to have the same budget going forward.  They are at roughly $149M this year or roughly $1M less than their highest payroll in a year when they did not get BAM money.  The assertion that a spending reduction of $1M of previous levels is responsible for this year's failures is yet another attempt to support a narrative that unwillingness to spend is the problem.  Apparently, every team in this division has the same problem.

Salary allocations trend up.  To go backwards is a problem.  I'll defer to Hambino's excellent response beyond that.

[Bad News TC Bears]

With all due respect to other Pier's here I blame myself for not recognizing the warning signs of Twins fandom. 

I started counting the chickens before.... You know. I saw Jose Miranda's hit streak and started penciling him in for a batting crown... And now he's back in AAA.

Last year I was dreaming of an ALCS series... Then we lose 16 out of the last 22. 

This year we had a 13 game win streak... Kody Clemens was raking along with Buck.... Now the team is up for sale and players are being shopped... Hopefully not for too much of a discount.... Who knows? 

Clearly I don't... As a Twin lifer you need to know the ceiling of expectations.... I let you all down. I need an intervention.

[1985Fan]

It’s Falvey and Rocco. They both adhere to the same baseball philosophy that isn’t a winning philosophy. The team isn’t fundamentally sound on defense, base running, hitting philosophy, etc. The players are not great enough offensively to make up for the fundamental flaws. These fundamental flaws, along with Rocco’s in-game management decisions, result in consistently losing close games and getting beat by good teams. When you’re giving the other team advantage before you step on the field, you’re not playing winning baseball. The other team should have to beat you instead of you beating yourself. Sitting back and hoping for home runs to win while the pitching holds the other team to zero or one run, doesn’t work long-term. 

[thelanges5]

Season on the line in a close game and your top player doesn’t play at all? What’s up C4?

[mikelink45]

The assessment of players is a difficult task - Look at the TD prospect rankings over the last ten years and how well we all picked the stars.  Do we draft well?  I have no idea but the TD articles seem to suggest we do.  When we got Correa much of our comments were excitement - we finally got the big one.  Yup = that has not worked out.  So Management and coaches, front office - cosmic rays and aurora borealis - I have no idea, but I would like to see some efforts made that suggest we are addressing the problems.

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

I would 40% on the front office and development staff.  They have certainly not been a complete failure because the roster is filled with guys that should be at the major league level.  However, they have failed to produce difference makers outside of Buxton and Ryan.  Yes, I give them credit for Ryan because that kind of acquisition has been nearly as instrumental to success as drafting for the most successful low revenue teams.

I put 40% of the revenue disparity.  If the Twins are equally proficient to the Dodgers / Yankees in terms of drafting, and developing, the revenue advantage means the Dodgers advantage in terms of building a roster equates to adding Ohtani, Yamamoto, Snell, Bett's & Freemen.  Should we pretend this is not a factor?

20% is on the players.

Yeah but much do you blame BAM?

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

II put 40% of the revenue disparity. 

"Revenue disparity" hahaha.  I just love the idea that revenue is forever fixed per market and nothing will ever change that, not sound financial management, not solid PR and fan engagement, not winning, nothing.  "It has been decreed from on high and shall always be thus."  The genius of this delusion is that there's no accountability for anyone.  It's not the Pohlads' fault they put a guy in charge who has destroyed both businesses he's been in charge of; it's the market's fault.  It's not the Pohlads' fault they mismanaged their other businesses so poorly they had to use the Twins as a debt shelter; it's the market's fault.  It's not the Pohlads' fault they actively alienated most of their fanbase through terrible PR; it's the market's fault.  

In the real world "revenue disparity" means "my competitors are beating me."  

[Bob Twins Fan Since 61]

9 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Maybe we have too many coaches. Too many voices and the players don't seem to hear any of it or they can't adjust.  It is discouraging but perhaps we also overestimate what we have. Which leads to the question for the rest of this year and the future are we in limbo until I no ownership comes in?

It sure feels like it.

[NYCTK]

45 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

"Revenue disparity" hahaha.  I just love the idea that revenue is forever fixed per market and nothing will ever change that, not sound financial management, not solid PR and fan engagement, not winning, nothing.  "It has been decreed from on high and shall always be thus."  The genius of this delusion is that there's no accountability for anyone.  It's not the Pohlads' fault they put a guy in charge who has destroyed both businesses he's been in charge of; it's the market's fault.  It's not the Pohlads' fault they mismanaged their other businesses so poorly they had to use the Twins as a debt shelter; it's the market's fault.  It's not the Pohlads' fault they actively alienated most of their fanbase through terrible PR; it's the market's fault.  

In the real world "revenue disparity" means "my competitors are beating me."  

They can't be blamed for the fact that they've finished top 5 in the AL in attendance exactly once in the last 14 seasons. It's everyone else's fault. 

25th of 28 teams this year? Nothing the Pohlads can do. 

Yes, market differences are somewhat of an issue, and I fully expect a large jump in revenue sharing in the CBA, but that wouldn't fix 40% of the Twins's woes. 5%...maybe.

[Bob Twins Fan Since 61]

7 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

For sure. I've seen no evidence ownership has actually had a strategy for the on-field product since Joe took over. It really seems like they're winging it year-to-year.

I would be suspicious Joe is really calling the shots.  He is likely under significant micro-managing by Uncle Jim.  The cutting of payroll after resigning Correa and extending Lopez made no sense.  I think that Uncle Jim wanted to put his nephew in place.  They had a falling out and agreed best move is to sell.  Which Uncle Jim ego preferred over seeing his nephew possible taking the Twins farther than he ever did.

[Maybebaby]

CC is the anchor at 25 % of the payroll.  Nuff said!

[Craig Arko]

The Great Old Ones.

[The Great Hambino]

31 minutes ago, Bob Twins Fan Since 61 said:

I would be suspicious Joe is really calling the shots.  He is likely under significant micro-managing by Uncle Jim.  The cutting of payroll after resigning Correa and extending Lopez made no sense.  I think that Uncle Jim wanted to put his nephew in place.  They had a falling out and agreed best move is to sell.  Which Uncle Jim ego preferred over seeing his nephew possible taking the Twins farther than he ever did.

This is a good point - I’ve been pretty critical of Joe’s mismanagement of the big contracts followed by right-sizing in short order, but it’s very possible that his uncles pulled the rug out from under him and he was left to fall on the grenade for the family like he did with their failed radio stations.  He may just be the family patsy.

It still puts the blame on ownership, but maybe not just Joe specifically 

[D.C Twins]

Thank you for asking... I'll take 'D'... All Of The Above (always the answer on multiple choice tests)

[P Meyer]

52 minutes ago, Maybebaby said:

CC is the anchor at 25 % of the payroll.  Nuff said!

It definitely limits what they can do financially.

[D.C Twins]

7 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

I saw in a podcast the other day that Correa has a WAR of near zero.  Not very good for a man eating up about 35 mil per year on payroll.  Except for a few flashes here and there he's been a big disappointment for the Twins.

I fear that his last 2 years of the contract will make this year look like All Star level play....

[P Meyer]

Ownership, IMO, is responsible for the payroll shift backwards which has made the Correa contract an anchor. I don't know that they are doing much else. 

 

FO...in terms of acquiring players within that financial framework has done ok. I feel like they have done well in signing low cost players and getting some value out of them. In terms of drafting players, not so much. Either the FO is good at drafting and the system is terrible at developing OR they suck at drafting and the system is developing what they can OR it (likely) is a combination of both. 

 

Coaching...I get coaches can only coach what they have but IMO, this team does nothing well on the field and that is on the coaching. I choose to believe that every coach can coach fundamentals, and they control who they play based on that. They don't seem to be coaching/teaching, just managing. If you want to say the system isn't preparing them, then that should be getting addressed. It doesn't seem to be.

[Western SD Fan]

After reading the article and all of the comments, there isn't much to add to this so I will try to find a few things or highlight things that I think are important.

Ownership's apathy and lack of communication is the overarching issue with this total system failure.  As one of the earlier posters noted, I find it hard to believe that Falvey signed Correa knowing that ownership would slash payroll and basically make the contract toxic as soon as the ink was dried.  In 2024 when the Twins signed back up with Bally, we had pleaded that they would spend some of that money on the team knowing that there were holes that needed to be filled and even $10M would have done wonders in 2024.  As for 2025, I remember early on in the offseason that there was a rumor that ownership wanted payroll pared down to $130M and we were discussing articles about having to trade Castro, Vazquez, anybody that had a little too high a payroll.  I remember discussions about trading Jax or Larnach because they made over $2M for this season and signing France was going to kill the payroll.  From this standpoint, ownership should be given a little grace for allowing the payroll to naturally rise in order to allow Falvey to fill out the team.

The FO seems to be lost on what they are trying to accomplish as an organization.  I seem to remember a FO interview early on that the purpose on drafting players like Sabato and Larnach was to trade them for pitching or better prospects, similar to what they did for Steer and CES.  I'm not sure if the philosophy changed after the Mahle trade or if the FO, like us fans, fell too much in love with our prospects to be willing to trade them for the pieces we actually needed.  Now it seems we have a glut of prospects, failed prospects, and future prospects all in or about the same level (AA through the ML club).  In drafting, the Twins do the same thing as a lot of other teams do, which is to try to draft players that are willing to sign "under slot value" and save money for the later rounds.  One issue of doing this is that we are constantly drafting players with apparent injuries or an injury history.  The only phrase that is consistent with all of our top prospects are "if he stays healthy".

Plouffe made a good point that one cheap, easy improvement is to hire more coaches and staff for their minor leagues.  One complaint has been that these prospects shoot through the minors only to then plateau early on at the ML level but doesn't correct anything when sent back to AAA.  Spending and extra $2-3M in the minors would do wonders for the preparation of the players when they make it to the majors.  I'm not sure where the Twins lie in terms of coach/players, but they need to out develop their players compared to their counterparts.

I've been on the fire Rocco train all year (and it keeps gaining steam).  With that being said, Rocco & Co can still only work with the parts that the FO gives them, and they don't always do the best with the ingredients they are given.  Bullpen usage seems to be at the highest of my complaints from Rocco & Co.  Rocco never really holding anyone accountable is also frustrating.  I look at Detroit in awe and wonder on how AJ Hinch has taken a younger team and made them play better.  Baez, the Tigers most expensive player, was riding the bench at times last year.  Torkelson was sent back down to AAA with the understanding that someone was already taking his spot and he had to earn it back.  You don't see that same fire put under Royce Lewis, Wallner, Larnach, or Lee and then wonder why it doesn't look like they put forth their best effort.

Finally, the players, to me they are the lowest of the blame on the totem pole.  While there is definitely blame to be assigned for lack of preparation or in-game execution, much of this starts with the expectations of the players themselves and that starts with the coaches/manager/FO establishing expectations with accountability attached to it.

[Dawgzilla]

Correa, although a great teammate, hadn't lived up to his salary.  Also, Twins go cheap in fre agency bin.  Bader has been decent.  Lastly, Twins bring up their prospects by the time they qualify for social security; if they haven't figured out they are good enough by 23...seek new scouts.

[Fezig]

When the Titanic hit the iceberg nobody blamed the iceberg.

[nicksaviking]

15 hours ago, Bob Twins Fan Since 61 said:

I would be suspicious Joe is really calling the shots.  He is likely under significant micro-managing by Uncle Jim.  The cutting of payroll after resigning Correa and extending Lopez made no sense.  I think that Uncle Jim wanted to put his nephew in place.  They had a falling out and agreed best move is to sell.  Which Uncle Jim ego preferred over seeing his nephew possible taking the Twins farther than he ever did.

I don't know about any family strife, but I much preferred Jim. I preferred Jim to Carl as well, plenty of mis-steps, but at some points there was a clear vision for the club and at other points there was a clear attempt at winning. Not at enough points, but that still beats what Joe has done and what Carl did the last 15 years he ran the club.

Seemed to me they decided they were going to sell but Joe wanted a chance to play with the toy before they did. On two separate occasions the family gave him radio stations to run, which he promptly bankrupt and shuttered, so what's happening now looks to be about on par for Joe.

[saviking]

23 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Agree but I took a lot of crap for this position in the past when trying to make the point that production per dollar spent is essential when there are teams with literally double the revenue of the Twins.  Many posters told me they were not interested in winning the award for production per dollar spent.  There were a significant portion of posters here who were adamant the Twins sign Correa even when it looked like he might get a 12-year contract.  There were impassioned posts suggesting the twins were cheap / unserious if they would not pony up for Correa.  Even at the start of this year, it sure seemed like a significant percentage of posters were dead against trading Correa if they could find a trade partner.  The tone has sure changed now that he is underperforming.

Same here. I've been bashing the Correa signing ever sense I got to see him play in a Twins uniform for the first 3 months. I was relieved when he was going to sign with the Mets before becoming disappointed again when we resigned him long term. 

That first three months in a Twins uniform was enough to know that although he was a very good player he in no way was worth that percentage of the Twins salary cap.