Minnesota Twins Acquire Outfielder Manuel Margot from Dodgers in 3-Player Trade

[wavedog]

Lot of good discussion on the trade.   Looks like Hernandez wanted to sign with the Dodgers rather than us so that made Margot redundant and the Dodgers needed to open up a slot.  We swap prospects and get a year of Margot for what we were looking to pay for a 4th OF.   Looking at Margot stats I thought he was a bit better of a hitter and fielder than the stats show but maybe he was bothered by a bum knee the past 2 years.   Margot looks like a good fit against LH and can cover all the OF spots.  If Martin is tearing up AAA - we can trade Margot and bring him up - and more than likely with the walking wounded in the OF there will be some injury stretches.    Glad to see us acquiring some more contact hitters this offseason.    

[PseudoSABR]

To those decrying about Martin, Lanarch, and the loss of flexibility on the opening day 26 man: did the Twins suddenly invent some salve to stave off injuries for the entire year? We will see a lot of Martin this year, maybe a significant amount given our team's injury history.  Depth matters, as last year showed.   

[KirbyDome89]

59 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I don't like the trade, but for the Twins purposes, yes, Margot is better than Duvall. How many 30%+ strikeout guys do you think this team can carry?

The overabundance of Ks is awful to watch, and it undoubtedly hurt the team last year.  

Is Margot being a subpar offensive player in the extreme opposite manner the lesser of two evils? Idk, at some point I think it ceases to matter. 

[nicksaviking]

3 minutes ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

I'm fine with the prospect we received in Doncan. That doesn't mean that I have to think well of Margot. Imo he's a mehhh player. I for one wanted to see if we had a player in Martin and give one more shot to Larnach. Now we have those guys blocked. I hope the deal works. 

I don't specifically care about Martin or Larnach. I do care about Martin, Larnach, Miranda, Lee, Severino, Keirsey, Camargo, Prato, Williams, Helman and fingers crossed, soon Emmanuel Rodriguez, who would all otherwise be fighting for a roster spot if it weren't for the last two deals. The odds that some of those guys are better than the no-ceiling vets is almost a guarantee.

[nicksaviking]

3 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

To those decrying about Martin, Lanarch, and the loss of flexibility on the opening day 26 man: did the Twins suddenly invent some salve to stave off injuries for the entire year? We will see a lot of Martin this year, maybe a significant amount given our team's injury history.  Depth matters, as last year showed.   

The games they play in April and May count just as much as the ones in September.

I'd rather cycle through the highest ceiling guys on the major league roster first than turn to the 'veteran depth' if all else fails. You can always sign similarly unattractive guys like Jake Cave, Kyle Garlick or Andrew Stevenson to a MiLB deal and stash them away. Putting the 'depth' on the MLB roster doesn't afford you the same opportunity.

[sweetmusicviola16]

7 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

Obligatory.

Add in the 5.5 mil, that's at least on paper, very good value.

Thanks. Doncan is a good get. He's what we hoped for with the loss of Miller.

[PseudoSABR]

3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

 The odds that some of those guys are better than the no-ceiling vets is almost a guarantee.

Now you're just making things up.  Maybe over the long run those guys will out produce Margot, or Farmer or whoever else you are talking about.  But the odds are that we will need many of the players you mention throughout the entirety of the season, as well as the vets.  

[nicksaviking]

8 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

The overabundance of Ks is awful to watch, and it undoubtedly hurt the team last year.  

Is Margot being a subpar offensive player in the extreme opposite manner the lesser of two evils? Idk, at some point I think it ceases to matter. 

I don't like Margot, but he not only strikes out less, his OBP is also significantly better than Taylor and Duvall. I don't want any of them on the roster, but at least Margot will give the team far fewer empty plate appearances, and with the current construct of the roster, I think that's more important from the last guy on the bench than anything else.

[PseudoSABR]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

The games they play in April and May count just as much as the ones in September.

I'd rather cycle through the highest ceiling guys on the major league roster first than turn to the 'veteran depth' if all else fails. You can always sign similarly unattractive guys like Jake Cave, Kyle Garlick or Andrew Stevenson to a MiLB deal and stash them away. Putting the 'depth' on the MLB roster doesn't afford you the same opportunity.

Are you really comparing Margot to Garlick, Cave, and Stevenson? Really? You're just guessing that the youngsters will outproduce the veterans with an actual track record in the early months.  Imagine last year if we didn't acquire Castro or Famer, because--using your logic--of the belief the likes of Miranda and Lanarch (or whoever) were going to outperform them. 

[nicksaviking]

3 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

Now you're just making things up.  Maybe over the long run those guys will out produce Margot, or Farmer or whoever else you are talking about.  But the odds are that we will need many of the players you mention throughout the entirety of the season, as well as the vets.  

Yeah, that's when you call up the Garlick or Cave. The difference you lose between those players and Margot is minimal.

[DocBauer]

30 minutes ago, Jeff K said:

I feel badly for Martin too; although I do like this move.  I suspect if he plays well at St. Paul, he might be part of a future trade for a staring pitcher around the trade deadline.

That's entirely possible. But I think the Twins really like him and see him as a real contributor this season and going forward. They just don't want to "trust" him being ready NOW and not having another depth piece behind him. I don't think he's moved unless it's part of a deal for a really, really nice arm that's got a couple years of control. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, PseudoSABR said:

Are you really comparing Margot to Garlick, Cave, and Stevenson? Really? You're just guessing that the youngsters will outproduce the veterans with an actual track record in the early months.  Imagine last year if we didn't acquire Castro or Famer, because--using your logic--of the belief the likes of Miranda and Lanarch (or whoever) were going to outperform them. 

But they have Farmer and Castro this year.....they had 2 open hitter spots, and decided not to use either on a guy with options. The only way the AAA guy see real time is if someone important goes down for months at a time.....which is fine, that's a strategy. It isn't one I like. Heck, they've also filled the bullpen with old guys w/o options. You know how they love to cut bait on those guys (not).

[SotaSports in NM]

I haven't seen anyone talk about the fact that this trade was made a week after the start of spring training. It seems to me that they watched Martin get in some OF reps and decided they needed better insurance.

I still like Martin as a versatile contributor, but I can't fault the process. For all the trades that haven't worked out, the FO at least has been getting a decent prospect included in deals. In this case they even got an upgrade (subjectively, allegedly) in that regard.

Margot definitely isn't exciting, but the low strikeout percentage is a very welcome improvement.from last year.

[PseudoSABR]

5 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, that's when you call up the Garlick or Cave. The difference you lose between those players and Margot is minimal.

I guess if you just discount defense, speed, and track record.  Sure.

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

Are you really comparing Margot to Garlick, Cave, and Stevenson? Really? You're just guessing that the youngsters will outproduce the veterans with an actual track record in the early months.  Imagine last year if we didn't acquire Castro or Famer, because--using your logic--of the belief the likes of Miranda and Lanarch (or whoever) were going to outperform them. 

How many more games do the Twins win last year if Wallner, Julien and Jeffers got 100 more plate appearances from Gallo, Farmer and Vazquez?

[PseudoSABR]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

But they have Farmer and Castro this year.....they had 2 open hitter spots, and decided not to use either on a guy with options. The only way the AAA guy see real time is if someone important goes down for months at a time.....which is fine, that's a strategy. It isn't one I like. Heck, they've also filled the bullpen with old guys w/o options. You know how they love to cut bait on those guys (not).

I mean, I guess if you cook "underperformance" in the recipe, not cutting bait doesn't look great.  Lanarch and Miranda had plenty of opportunity and didn't stick, I just don't get why you are against having more darts to throw, because you want to give unknown-outcomes a more significant opportunity.    

A Rh-ed bat, who can hit lefties, and play good defense was an obvious need for the outfield.  Yes, one that Martin may be able to fill, but that's just speculation--hence the need for more darts.

[FlyingFinn]

58 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Danny De Andrade has a clear path forward.

The clear winner of this trade is De Andrade. The Twins like him enough to move Miller and clear the Cedar Rapids SS spot for him. 

[nicksaviking]

Just now, PseudoSABR said:

I guess if you just discount defense, speed, and track record.  Sure.

For the last spot on the bench and a 1st baseman? Yeah, I discount the first two, and I'm quite confident their offensive track records aren't what you think they are.

This team needs more talented hitters, and they aren't going to buy it, they need to find it internally.

[jorgenswest]

One of these 5 bats needs to be the DH against right handed pitching in Santana, Farmer, Margot, Castro and Vazquez. Not one of them project to be league average against right handed pitching. No worries though because we are set against lefties now.

[PseudoSABR]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

How many more games do the Twins win last year if Wallner, Julien and Jeffers got 100 more plate appearances from Gallo, Farmer and Vazquez?

Well, that's a non-sequitor, and with the benefit of hindsight.  The legitimate question would be how many more playoff wins would they have had, and the answer is none, because those guys were obviously part of the squad, and Gallo/Famer/Vazquez didn't prevent it.

[nicksaviking]

Just now, PseudoSABR said:

Well, that's a non-sequitor, and with the benefit of hindsight.  The legitimate question would be how many more playoff wins would they have had, and the answer is none, because those guys were obviously part of the squad, and Gallo/Famer/Vazquez didn't prevent it.

No it's not. Plenty of us were saying this exact same thing last year. 

Unless you have a barren farm system, you can almost always find the same if not better players internally than you will digging for these kinds of veterans. Which affords you way more flexibility.

[singlesoverwalks]

If Margot's knee is healed, then he makes perfect sense as the good-fielding Buxton backup and right-handed replacement for Kepler and Wallner. We need speed, fielding, and low(er) strikeouts. Sounds like the prospect we gave up had some fans, but they hedged their bets on the prospect capital, so fine.

I really, really hope we're not taking LA's word on the health of Margot's knee. Passing a physical is standard practice... Right?

[PseudoSABR]

6 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Unless you have a barren farm system, you can almost always find the same if not better players internally than you will digging for these kinds of veterans. 

This is absurd.  The saying 'don't count chickens before they are hatched' exists for a reason.  

Last year's rookie influx was a historic aberration for the Twins, and you're acting as if it's commonplace.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

1 hour ago, Teflon said:

They won't need to bother as there's no shortage of Twins Daily readers who will do that for them.

Wait... We get to kick Twins management? I wasn't aware of that benefit to being a TD reader.

 

Meh, I get enough kicking for my taste following the Vikings.

[LyleCole]

This is a back of the roster type of trade that 10 years from now few people will remember.  

I would have preferred the Twins locking in a higher quality CF given Buxton's injury history (it is very sad that we have to almost assume Buxton missing significant number of games every season).  I think this puts a lot of pressure on the roster for Willi Castro to duplicate his 2023 106 OPS+ season, a huge ask for a 87 OPS+ player before the 2023 season.  

I share the same sentiment that many have expressed:  just give this roster spot to Austin Martin and see what he can do.  Can he duplicate his OBP rate from the minor leagues?  If he can he could be a valuable player for the Twins at a fraction of the cost and I would rather he prove it at the major league level at this stage in his career than in the minors.   But I think this trade answers what the Twins management feels about Martin at least for the 2024 season.

One thing for sure, it would be nice to finally see Byron Buxton and Royce Lewis have a full season in the league and a full season together.  This team can be a contender if the brief glimpses we have seen of those two potential MVP players can ever be put on the field for the majority of the season.  We could have two guys with OPS+ > 150 and several supporting players like Julien and Wallner above 120.   

 

 

 

 

[singlesoverwalks]

17 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

One of these 5 bats needs to be the DH against right handed pitching in Santana, Farmer, Margot, Castro and Vazquez. Not one of them project to be league average against right handed pitching. No worries though because we are set against lefties now.

There's not space to maybe squeeze in one.more bat on the roster? Maybe Larnach gets one more chance?

[sampleSizeOfOne]

And if i didn't already say it, i am already missing Miller. But i'm curious if he would still be in our system by the time Correa lost a step at shortstop. Could be considered taking advantage of a player being worth more to other organizations?

I am also still waiting for the other shoe to drop, and seeing who we try to slip through waivers to make room for our new outfielder.

And likewise the option for next year still has value, especially if he comes out strong this year. Here's to his knees fully recovering!

[Major League Ready]

20 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

One of these 5 bats needs to be the DH against right handed pitching in Santana, Farmer, Margot, Castro and Vazquez. Not one of them project to be league average against right handed pitching. No worries though because we are set against lefties now.

Reasonable point but Castro did have an 801 OPS against RHP last year.  They could also give Correa, Lewis, Julian, Kirilloff or Wallner a day off from the field and have them DH while one of the four you mentioned plays in the field.

[RpR]

20 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

How many more games do the Twins win last year if Wallner, Julien and Jeffers got 100 more plate appearances from Gallo, Farmer and Vazquez?

Does not matter and the answer is: How many more.games would they lost if Wallner, Julien and Jeffers had 100 more at-bats?

[JD-TWINS]

2 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

Also makes you wonder how little they think of Martin too at the same time.

He looked overmatched (as did Camargo) against Cortes of the Yanks today.