Why am I a fan of this (fake) poverty franchise?

[AZDane]

Family owns team since dinosaur days. . . it's only money comes from the team.
Other family buys team, because they own banks and kind of print money.
New family doesn't like that they don't make enough money from sports, convinces commissioner to make team extinct for a dollar on their dollar investment.
General outcry tanks extinction plan.
Family convinces fans to pay for new facilities to stay competitive.
Their dollar investment is now many dollars.
Family's team breaks through and has best competitive season since last century.
Broadcast deal teeters and doesn't produce as well as before.
Family cuts spending on team to same level as days when they played in old dinosaur stadium and shrugs.
Family still owns banks and treats team as if it MUST be in the black financially every year, regardless of investment etc.

Have I missed much?
Fan since 1979 or so if it matters. . . 
(I'm not expecting the Dodgers here, I just want to see the fake poverty to f%%% off)
 

[AZDane]

I was just now looking at getting tickets for a Spring game since I will be in Florida two weeks from now and it hit me. . . 

[tony&rodney]

38 minutes ago, AZDane said:

I was just now looking at getting tickets for a Spring game since I will be in Florida two weeks from now and it hit me. . . 

Go watch the minor leaguers practice for several hours. If you want to see really good competitive baseball, look up the rankings of a Florida high school team near where you are staying and catch a few of their games. 

If you enjoy baseball, you will have a blast. Forget about the money. 

 

[Blyleven2011]

America's past time means nothing to them , it's all about the money  ....

It's a game , we need a new owner that loves the sport , Eloise and Carl loved the game , the boys inherited the team and the money from their parents ,, what a sad life to have money and not spend it on their legacy of bringing a world championship to the fans and state of Minnesota ...

Especially since they inherited a billion or so and didn't earn it ...

I have enough money for the rest of my life and I love spending money wisely , i dont have enoughto own the team though  ...

[tony&rodney]

29 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Eloise and Carl loved the game

FWIW, Eloise liked baseball. Carl bought the team as an investment because of her interest and he saw it as a viable positive addition to his portfolio of businesses. Carl, very specifically, had no interest himself in baseball. It isn't totally as clear how the sons feel about baseball. Joe and several of the other grandchildren are baseball fans. 

[Linus]

58 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

America's past time means nothing to them , it's all about the money  ....

It's a game , we need a new owner that loves the sport , Eloise and Carl loved the game , the boys inherited the team and the money from their parents ,, what a sad life to have money and not spend it on their legacy of bringing a world championship to the fans and state of Minnesota ...

Especially since they inherited a billion or so and didn't earn it ...

I have enough money for the rest of my life and I love spending money wisely , i dont have enoughto own the team though  ...

You mean Carl the guy who threatened to move the team to North Carolina if we didn’t build him a stadium?  Or Carl the guy that threatened contraction when the North Carolina thing proved to be a hoax?  A real Twins caretaker. 

[Joe A. Preusser]

Don't let the door hit your a** on the way out.

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, Linus said:

You mean Carl the guy who threatened to move the team to North Carolina if we didn’t build him a stadium?  Or Carl the guy that threatened contraction when the North Carolina thing proved to be a hoax?  A real Twins caretaker. 

Yes , maybe it was just Eloise that liked  , I forgot all about those business swindles  ...

[sweetmusicviola16]

Carl Pohlad got his start by foreclosing on poor farmers during the Depression. What a great legacy to leave behind.

[bean5302]

Carl Pohlad was 14 at the start of the Great Depression, and 18 when he moved to California where he sold used cars before Bing Crosby convinced Pohlad to move to Spokane, WA and play football for Gonzaga. Pohlad did not get his start by foreclosing on farmers during the Great Depression since he was 14 at the start of that era. He grew up in a level of poverty the likes most on this site have never seen or could even imagine with his mom doing other people's laundry to help pay the bills, and Pohlad started out as a kid picking stickers like cockleburs and sandburs out of fields for farmers. The Great Depression was over when Pohlad was attending Gonzaga before he moved back to California to continue selling used cars.

Pohlad was drafted in 1942 during WWII, and he served in an infantry unit in the European theater. He he returned from the European theater a war hero after earning 2 Bronze Stars for heroism and 3 Purple Hearts.

After WWII, Pohlad worked for a finance company in California, which is where the legend of the foreclosure notices likely originated. Supposedly, Pohlad delivered the notices so maybe don't shoot the mailman? Details are pretty hard to come by. Rage and misinformation is pretty easy to find, though. In any case, Pohlad didn't own any banks until about 1950, when he was part of a group of investors which purchased the parent company of Marquette Bank. Pohlad eventually became the president of Marquette in 1955. Eventually, in 1982, Marquette acquired a bankrupt Farmers and Mechanics Savings Bank. Basically, the garbage story of Pohlad's origins is probably a mishmash of events crafted into a demon lord origin story.

In 1984 Pohlad acquired a majority ownership interest, but without any team control, in the Minnesota Vikings. That same year, Pohlad also bought the Twins from Calvin Griffith, saving the Twins from moving to Florida in the process, resulting in the 1987 and 1991 World Series Championship teams celebrating in the twin cities. Those championship teams would not have been possible without Pohlad consistently ponying up for middle of the pack payrolls. 1988 (11th), 1989 (8th), 1990 (18), 1991 (16), 1992 (19), 1993 (17), 1994 (21)... this is where baseball financials changed. The cheapskate Pohlad paid or extended or signed big AAV stars in Minnesota including Puckett, Viola, Morris, Hrbek, etc. The Metrodome was an absolutely terrible, horrible, awful baseball stadium. MLB was struggling post 1994 strike, and former Vikings GM Mike Lynn got 10% of all suite generated gross revenue, further insulting the wounds to the Twins' finances. Pohlad lobbied hard for a new stadium where the Twins could be competitive in the new era of baseball financials. The Twins payroll when they ranked #8 in MLB in 1989 was $15.5MM. Rebuffed again and again, MLB and Pohlad were fed up. By 1997, when the North Carolina sale was discussed, it was $25.7MM (23rd) representing a 6.5% cumulative average annual increase, but MLB payrolls had been skyrocketing with some team owners running well into the red as they ran their clubs as a hobby or community service. Pohlad was a businessman and ran the Twins not to lose money. The North Carolina deal was for about $150MM, but it was contingent on factors which were never met, and subject to an MLB owners vote that it likely wouldn't have passed, either. It's tough to say how likely a move would really have been as debates have shot a lot of holes into the potential the move would have ever really been possible.

In regard to the contraction plan, the myths and legends have grown just as famously as Mr. Pohlad's supposed origins. Volunteering to contract the team for $150MM is almost certainly a mixup of the North Carolina deal that fell through. The contraction plan was supposedly for $250MM after 9/11 with baseball reeling, and btw, there were no teams mentioned in the plan. MLB owners approved the contraction plan 28-2 with only the the Twins and Expos owners voting against the plan. There were 4 or 5 teams in the mix for being contracted, but the Twins and Expos were seen as the most likely target to be culled. Again, Pohlad voted against contraction. I'm sure this is just another conspiracy, right...

There is so much misinformation and vitriol in this evil demon lord revisions of Carl Pohlad, it's just crazy. I didn't know the guy, and I didn't consider him a great owner, but man.

[old nurse]

Interesting how not losing money is claiming poverty. 

[ashbury]

On 2/25/2024 at 4:23 PM, tony&rodney said:

FWIW, Eloise liked baseball. Carl bought the team as an investment because of her interest and he saw it as a viable positive addition to his portfolio of businesses. Carl, very specifically, had no interest himself in baseball. It isn't totally as clear how the sons feel about baseball. Joe and several of the other grandchildren are baseball fans. 

That corresponds to my memory.  I'd go farther, that Carl wasn't even enthused about the business investment, but as the richest guy (by far) in the area he was persuaded that it was a civic undertaking to keep the team in town.  The phrase "a cold Omaha" was current in that era, to describe the effect of losing one of the major sports teams.

Sid Hartman, I believe, coined the polite fiction that Eloise was some kind of driving force.  You phrased it probably exactly right - she liked baseball, and Sid played it up on his radio show and/or in his column.

None of us are insiders, but I do think we have it about right.

[SwainZag]

If you have to ask yourself why you are a fan, then maybe quite frankly you shouldn't be?

[Otaknam]

On 2/25/2024 at 11:02 PM, bean5302 said:

Carl Pohlad was 14 at the start of the Great Depression, and 18 when he moved to California where he sold used cars before Bing Crosby convinced Pohlad to move to Spokane, WA and play football for Gonzaga. Pohlad did not get his start by foreclosing on farmers during the Great Depression since he was 14 at the start of that era. He grew up in a level of poverty the likes most on this site have never seen or could even imagine with his mom doing other people's laundry to help pay the bills, and Pohlad started out as a kid picking stickers like cockleburs and sandburs out of fields for farmers. The Great Depression was over when Pohlad was attending Gonzaga before he moved back to California to continue selling used cars.

Pohlad was drafted in 1942 during WWII, and he served in an infantry unit in the European theater. He he returned from the European theater a war hero after earning 2 Bronze Stars for heroism and 3 Purple Hearts.

After WWII, Pohlad worked for a finance company in California, which is where the legend of the foreclosure notices likely originated. Supposedly, Pohlad delivered the notices so maybe don't shoot the mailman? Details are pretty hard to come by. Rage and misinformation is pretty easy to find, though. In any case, Pohlad didn't own any banks until about 1950, when he was part of a group of investors which purchased the parent company of Marquette Bank. Pohlad eventually became the president of Marquette in 1955. Eventually, in 1982, Marquette acquired a bankrupt Farmers and Mechanics Savings Bank. Basically, the garbage story of Pohlad's origins is probably a mishmash of events crafted into a demon lord origin story.

In 1984 Pohlad acquired a majority ownership interest, but without any team control, in the Minnesota Vikings. That same year, Pohlad also bought the Twins from Calvin Griffith, saving the Twins from moving to Florida in the process, resulting in the 1987 and 1991 World Series Championship teams celebrating in the twin cities. Those championship teams would not have been possible without Pohlad consistently ponying up for middle of the pack payrolls. 1988 (11th), 1989 (8th), 1990 (18), 1991 (16), 1992 (19), 1993 (17), 1994 (21)... this is where baseball financials changed. The cheapskate Pohlad paid or extended or signed big AAV stars in Minnesota including Puckett, Viola, Morris, Hrbek, etc. The Metrodome was an absolutely terrible, horrible, awful baseball stadium. MLB was struggling post 1994 strike, and former Vikings GM Mike Lynn got 10% of all suite generated gross revenue, further insulting the wounds to the Twins' finances. Pohlad lobbied hard for a new stadium where the Twins could be competitive in the new era of baseball financials. The Twins payroll when they ranked #8 in MLB in 1989 was $15.5MM. Rebuffed again and again, MLB and Pohlad were fed up. By 1997, when the North Carolina sale was discussed, it was $25.7MM (23rd) representing a 6.5% cumulative average annual increase, but MLB payrolls had been skyrocketing with some team owners running well into the red as they ran their clubs as a hobby or community service. Pohlad was a businessman and ran the Twins not to lose money. The North Carolina deal was for about $150MM, but it was contingent on factors which were never met, and subject to an MLB owners vote that it likely wouldn't have passed, either. It's tough to say how likely a move would really have been as debates have shot a lot of holes into the potential the move would have ever really been possible.

In regard to the contraction plan, the myths and legends have grown just as famously as Mr. Pohlad's supposed origins. Volunteering to contract the team for $150MM is almost certainly a mixup of the North Carolina deal that fell through. The contraction plan was supposedly for $250MM after 9/11 with baseball reeling, and btw, there were no teams mentioned in the plan. MLB owners approved the contraction plan 28-2 with only the the Twins and Expos owners voting against the plan. There were 4 or 5 teams in the mix for being contracted, but the Twins and Expos were seen as the most likely target to be culled. Again, Pohlad voted against contraction. I'm sure this is just another conspiracy, right...

There is so much misinformation and vitriol in this evil demon lord revisions of Carl Pohlad, it's just crazy. I didn't know the guy, and I didn't consider him a great owner, but man.

Thanks for the history lesson on the team. My recollection who as a kid remembers the first game they ever played beating the Yankees 6-0 behind Pedro Ramos, was Carl did seriously consider contraction. 

[Riverbrian]

Insatiable.

This is an itch that can't be scratched because it doesn't end.

If the Twins spent some money... Oh... Let's say they spent 250 million in an off-season. I know that's crazy to think they would do that ever... but lets say they spend 250 million. That wouldn't calm the the masses down because there will just be another level after that. 

I wish the Twins would spend 250 million in an off-season so I could prove my point but until they spend 250 million in an off-season... I'll just say that Yankees fans think that Steinbrenner is cheap. 

It doesn't end. Fandom is insatiable to the point where you can't pay attention to most fans anymore. 

NDSU Bison fans were producing page after page of non-stop fire Matt Entz conversation because they were 4-2 after 6 games because winning 9 out of the last 13 FCS titles isn't good enough. Insatiable. 

I have a friend who left the Twins last season for the Padres.

Last off-season!!! After spending 250 million... he's gone. 

He says... I'm done with Twins... The Padres are my new team. He would text about how awesome the Padres were at least once a week until the Padres were obviously not so awesome and the texts slowed to a drip. 

This year he's a supposed Twins fan again but still constantly whining about the cheap Pohlads. I stopped listening a long time ago. 

[wabene]

∆∆👍👍👍👍

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Sigh...

This is becoming a recurring theme of the off-season.

I'd be curious to know what free agents people expected the Twins to sign...

Perhaps I'm really naive, and I don't think I am because I've been rooting for the Twins since 1986, but with the quirkiness surrounding the TV deal and with SEVERAL homegrown players on the verge of becoming much more expensive, I think Falvey and Levine did a solid job of fortifying the roster and keeping an eye towards 2025 when the TV revenue should normalize.

Health allowing, the Twins will win the division. And you know what, if something happens to Correa, Buxton, Lewis, Lopez, or Duran - then the Twins are going to be in trouble and they would still be in trouble even if they committed big $$$ to one of the Boras' four. That's the reality of their situation and I think the FO knows it. There's enough talent on this roster to win the division and compete for the AL pennant. Spending for the sake of it doesn't do anything but win headlines in January and February.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

And sorry to belabor the point but there is a reason why Snell and Montgomery remain unsigned. Even the big market teams are reluctant to throw big $$$ and long-term deals at two pitchers that while productive have their flaws.

[Major League Ready]

I did not know this history.  Thanks to those of you who took the time to present an informed point of view.  The informed and misconstrued rants featuring inaccuracies and misrepresentation have gotten out of hand.

[Jerr]

18 hours ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

Sigh...

This is becoming a recurring theme of the off-season.

I'd be curious to know what free agents people expected the Twins to sign...

Perhaps I'm really naive, and I don't think I am because I've been rooting for the Twins since 1986, but with the quirkiness surrounding the TV deal and with SEVERAL homegrown players on the verge of becoming much more expensive, I think Falvey and Levine did a solid job of fortifying the roster and keeping an eye towards 2025 when the TV revenue should normalize.

Health allowing, the Twins will win the division. And you know what, if something happens to Correa, Buxton, Lewis, Lopez, or Duran - then the Twins are going to be in trouble and they would still be in trouble even if they committed big $$$ to one of the Boras' four. That's the reality of their situation and I think the FO knows it. There's enough talent on this roster to win the division and compete for the AL pennant. Spending for the sake of it doesn't do anything but win headlines in January and February.

Been a Twins since their arrival in 1961 and always will be! Baseball is a game one can get their brain involved in, so much strategy and athletic skills. My only concern is that so much money is now required to take a family to a game and players' salaries are too high. I miss the days when players had to work other jobs to supplement their incomes during the off-seasons and most families could afford to attend a game. Yeah, I'm an old guy looking back, but wondering why I'm still a Twins fan.....well that has never crossed my mind.

 

[tony&rodney]

16 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I did not know this history.  Thanks to those of you who took the time to present an informed point of view.  The informed and misconstrued rants featuring inaccuracies and misrepresentation have gotten out of hand.

There is much more to "The Story" than has been covered in the comments. Those who lived in the Twin Cities and closely followed the Twins in the 1980s when the Pohlads came on the baseball scene are quite familiar with a vast array of details. I'm not too sure why we need to pore over all of the tawdry events of the franchise.

Fans of any specific sports team may find themselves deeply entrenched in thoughts concerning ownership and front offices which may detract from an ability to enjoy the sport. Whether favorable, frustrated, or negative a fan has zero to very little influence on how their favorite team is run or managed. Any emotion is understandable in all cases yet a less positive view may ruin an individual's interest or enjoyment of (in this case) baseball.

As far as accuracy of financial information or numbers associated with revenues or costs, one thing is absolutely clear. There is a whole pile of numbers which can be sorted, categorized, and explained to fit whatever point one is making and then there is the fact that these numbers all reveal one truism - a private corporation that does not fully reveal all of its numbers leaves every attempt short because the actual numbers are unknown to the public. 

People also disagree on the public relations part of the Twins. Seems counter productive to get too deep in what owners or front office say if one wants to enjoy baseball, yet frustration for many/some is understandable. The offseason of sifting through the Twins structure, finances, and whatever has produced nothing new or useful for me. I do wonder if others have been enlightened, understand more, feel better, feel worse, etc. Mostly, I hope that folks do not let their thoughts and feelings affect their interest in baseball. There will be games to enjoy this summer from t-ball to MLB. The options are out there to enjoy.

[Dave Borton]

On 2/25/2024 at 3:30 PM, AZDane said:

I was just now looking at getting tickets for a Spring game since I will be in Florida two weeks from now and it hit me. . . 

Have been in Arizona for last 3 winters and haven't attended one ST game. I admit to being a fan of ball first and foremost, and the Twins secondarily. Give me 18 players and a couple of guys in black/blue and I am happy.

Have been to tons of college women's softball, college ball, and HS ball. Price is right, most are competitive.

Have grabbed tix to see KC-Cleve in March. Want to see Bobby Witt Jr play. 

[SwainZag]

50 minutes ago, davidborton said:

Have been in Arizona for last 3 winters and haven't attended one ST game. I admit to being a fan of ball first and foremost, and the Twins secondarily. Give me 18 players and a couple of guys in black/blue and I am happy.

Have been to tons of college women's softball, college ball, and HS ball. Price is right, most are competitive.

Have grabbed tix to see KC-Cleve in March. Want to see Bobby Witt Jr play. 

How have you been there for 3 years and have yet to attend a game?  I hope you make it to more than 1 this Spring!  My parents use to have a house down there and we would go for a week in March and catch a game almost everyday.  It's great fun!

[Dave Borton]

5 hours ago, SwainZag said:

How have you been there for 3 years and have yet to attend a game? 

$ Value and love of the game.

Saw plenty of ST games when I lived in Florida. Games are overpriced for 2-3 innings of 35% of the starters. Rather watch some competitive games at college level than the understandably relative lackadaisical approach to spring training where teams focus on minor leaguers getting reviewed.

I attend about 10 Twins during the year and ardently follow on radio. Just right for me.

[jkcarew]

On 2/25/2024 at 6:50 PM, Linus said:

You mean Carl the guy who threatened to move the team to North Carolina if we didn’t build him a stadium?  Or Carl the guy that threatened contraction when the North Carolina thing proved to be a hoax?  A real Twins caretaker. 

He might have meant the guy who used his cash to save the Twin Cities mass transportation system in 1960, or the guy that risked his capital to provide employment to tens of thousands of Twin Cities families for more than half a century.

It works both ways.

[Linus]

4 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

He might have meant the guy who used his cash to save the Twin Cities mass transportation system in 1960, or the guy that risked his capital to provide employment to tens of thousands of Twin Cities families for more than half a century.

It works both ways.

No doubt Carl was a uber successful businessman and civic leader. However what i stated is true. It’s part of his legacy along with many positives 

[jkcarew]

I suggest becoming a Yankee or Dodgers fan.

Instead of being angry EVERY year regarding payroll, you can be angry only on years where you club doesn’t win the WS in dominating fashion.

Doesn’t that sound fun?

[Heiny]

I understand the point of not spending enough to keep up, but is that what it really takes?  What I really have a problem with is the same people who whine about their teams not spending enough money on payroll are the same people who constantly whine about the cost of taking the family to the game.  If the team doulbled what they spend on payroll and cut the cost of going to a game by half we would surely find something else to whine about.  It seems to me that we are fans of whining more than anything else.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

On 2/25/2024 at 5:49 PM, Blyleven2011 said:

Eloise and Carl loved the game

[Richie the Rally Goat]

20 hours ago, SwainZag said:

How have you been there for 3 years and have yet to attend a game?  I hope you make it to more than 1 this Spring!  My parents use to have a house down there and we would go for a week in March and catch a game almost everyday.  It's great fun!

Concur! My in-laws just sold their house in Fort Myers. I was there 10 of the last 15 spring trainings…. It’s the best! Especially the minor league games and the backfield practices