Twins 2, Tigers 0: Twins Win as Tigers Offense Reverts to Form

[RpR]

"Twins Win as Tigers Offense Reverts to Form"

Twins only had 3 hits, also so it is more like Twins win while Tigers try to imitate Twins minus excess strike outs.

[Riverbrian]

33 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

It's interesting about baseball. Pretty much everyone agrees that pitching is the most important of the four aspects of the game, followed by hitting, fielding, and base running in that order. But great pitching is boring video and TBH great hitting is not much better. Great fielding plays usually make the best highlights and the Castro-Correa-Jeffers play is a good example. That was really sweet.

There is nothing like a great defensive play. It's my favorite part of the game. I used to marvel at the plays Ozzie Smith made in my youth and I'm telling ya that there are Ozzie Smith type players all over the place today. 

The arm strength displayed in this day and age is absolutely incredible. The mustard that they can get on throws from awkward positions defy what seem to be humanly impossible. Defense today is a whole new level. 

That perfect throw by Correa and the catch and tag by Jeffers not only prevented a run but it prevented potential runs because it created an out that wasn't supposed to be there... on a play that a double was the result. 

The Tigers made some great defensive plays that should also be mentioned.

That play that Short made at third was incredible. Full extension dive toward the line, tricky hop, quickly to his feet to rob Jeffers.  

Maton had to perfectly time his jump to rob Taylor of a hit. 

I wouldn't call it incredible but Torkelson had to contend with the wall and the net to snag that pop up. 

I know a lot of folks like to focus on the hitting and the hitting is concerning but it was a beautiful game to watch and we beat a team that came to play. 

Hats off to the Twins... Quit chasing pitches outside the zone please... and give me Father's day win tomorrow if you don't mind. 

[OvertheHill]

I’m happy today. It’s a long season with a lot of peaks and valleys. Take care of business tomorrow, get the split. Not what I hoped for especially after beating the Brewers, but honestly I’ve maintained since March that this is an 85 win team and they still will be If:

- Buxton contributes both offensively and defensively. He needs a rehab assignment. 

- the team stops making every, single mediocre starting pitcher look like Cy Young 

- the team collectively starts showing the ability to help their pitchers out against better teams

- there are some trade deadline type moves that open up opportunities for guys currently blocked by guys like Kepler

I could go on but we’ve been beating this drum for the first 1/3 of the season. I feel like the pieces are (mostly) there, but something’s just “off”. For example , why is almost everyone on this team striking out way above their career averages? And what’s with the uncharacteristic base running blunders? 
 

It’s still there for this team. 

 

[darwin22]

Putting in perspective how BAD this offense is--consider the following MLB ranks by our pitching staff through 70 games, which doesn't include the 2-0 shutout "W" today, which pushed our record to a less than dazzling 36-35.

ERA:  3. 23---3rd/ only behind Astros and Rays

Quality Starts:  34/ Tied for 3rd with TOR/ Trail SEA and HST by 1

Fewest HR's allowed:  70/ Tied for 4th with TX. CHC & TB.  SEA 1st at 65

Fewest BB allowed:  199/ Tied for 4th with Dodgers

K's:  666/ 2nd--trail TOR for 1st place by 5

Lowest Opponents Batting Avg:  .229/ Tied for 2nd with Yankees/ Rays pitching staff #1 at .224

WHIP:  1.18/ Rank-1ST!

These ranks are even more incredible considering they include the pitfalls (being nice) of the Pagan Sacrifice (4.06 ERA in 31 IP) and Lopez (5.00 ERA in 27 IP).

 

 

 

[Blyleven2011]

2 hours ago, Matt Braun said:

I don’t know. All I know is baseball is best treated by celebrating the victories as they come. 

And there hasn't been enough wins to satisfy the twins fans ...

Rocco say his players have the skills and talent , What's holding them back ...

[UpstateNewYorker]

44 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

Yeah, I know, bad form to quote myself. And getting a bit off-topic. But I never get tired of watching this fielding play.

 

Fantastic play.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

Yeah, some need more stimulation than a well-pitched game and some good defense including a great play at the plate. Short attention spans don’t make for great baseball fans.

And that's with shorter games this year!

[Mike Sixel]

This is a game recap thread after a win? 

[Fatbat]

3 hours ago, wornsmooth said:

Personal opinion ( but no knowledge)

Buxton has struggled since the baserunning collision with the White Sox. Points to an injury that he has yet to recover from.

 

 

The fact that he is injured by walking out of the dugout (it will happen) leads me to believe that he will undergo offseason surgery for that collision. 

[D.C Twins]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

This is a game recap thread after a win? 

Yes... because unfortunately, nothing about this win suggests that the fundamental flaws are improving and the formula for this win is not sustainable.  

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

The club believes a healthy Buxton is essential if they have any chance in postseason. Watching Buck at this point is painful. If someone wants to be critical of the team and of Buxton, now is a perfect time. 

The more he slumps the more the TD fan base is clamoring for him to play center field. I don't see it happening until at least the All-Star break. I'm confident he'll come out of it and again be a much above-average hitter with plenty of power. We've seen this before and almost certainly will see it again. 

I don't know if the Twins will succeed with Buxton at DH. I have a hard time believing they can be competitive without him and I'm certain that they won't make the playoffs and be competitive with both Correa and Buxton having BAs in the low .200s and OPS in the low .700s. It really doesn't figure that Correa (28) and Buxton (29) would fall of the table offensively. The Twins have put their bets on those two guys and if they fail, there isn't enough talent to be a winning team.

I disagree.  I think they have enough talent. But It'll require drastic measures starting with moving Buxton off as the sole DH. His numbers have been in a free fall since the end of April. That's 6 weeks of very little production from the DH spot.  I didn't look to see what the Twins got from the DH spot while he was on the IL but it had to be better than when he was in there. Is he slumping because he's hurt? Idk. But if that's the case. Get him healthy.  Correa. His numbers have to improve unless he's not healthy. Don't know how much that PF is affecting him. 

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

This year? Now 28-24 in games he started.  (Among those are 4 he didn't finish the game but the Twins won all 4.)

In years past when he was in CF the W-L record was almost invariably better.

By a larger margin or percentage 

[rv78]

This team won't get better until they get rid of the dead wood they think so highly of. Start with Kepler then add in Gallo, Buxton and yes, Correa. They are the 4 hitters that are hurting this team the most offensively. Unfortunately the FO is forced to stick with them because they have a lot of dollars invested in them and to reverse course would be admitting they were wrong. It's not going to happen. At the end of the season when ownership sees how big of a mistake they made, hopefully they'll all see the front door.

[ashbury]

27 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

By a larger margin or percentage 

Both I suppose, but I'd probably explain it with percentages. In the seasons they were winning they'd win more when he was a starter.  In their losing seasons, they lost less frequently.  It's a bit laborious to dig up the numbers in his b-r.com game logs, because partial games carry a bias.  And the last I looked might have been a couple years ago so I won't vouch for 2022.  Right now 2023 is only closely in his favor, I think.

[Blyleven2011]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Both I suppose, but I'd probably explain it with percentages. In the seasons they were winning they'd win more when he was a starter.  In their losing seasons, they lost less frequently.  It's a bit laborious to dig up the numbers in his b-r.com game logs, because partial games carry a bias.  And the last I looked might have been a couple years ago so I won't vouch for 2022.  Right now 2023 is only closely in his favor, I think.

He definitely is not the same player we have come to expect  ...

Are the twins being to cautious not playing him in CF or is he injured  ...

The FO seems to think that the players  have a right to privacy  and the fans don't need to  knowxif he is suffering  from an injury  ...

I wish the FO and Rocco  would be more forth coming and communicate to the fans so we can cut him some slack if he is injured or just lay it on thicker if he's not ...

[stringer bell]

21 minutes ago, rv78 said:

This team won't get better until they get rid of the dead wood they think so highly of. Start with Kepler then add in Gallo, Buxton and yes, Correa. They are the 4 hitters that are hurting this team the most offensively. Unfortunately the FO is forced to stick with them because they have a lot of dollars invested in them and to reverse course would be admitting they were wrong. It's not going to happen. At the end of the season when ownership sees how big of a mistake they made, hopefully they'll all see the front door.

There’s a long-term commitment to Correa and Buxton. Both Kepler and Gallo can be free agents after this season. The Twins are definitely committed to Buxton and Correa. I’d be shocked if they don’t improve their numbers over the remaining 90 games, and if they don’t improve I’d be even more shocked if they won the division. 

[wabene]

4 hours ago, wornsmooth said:

Personal opinion ( but no knowledge)

Buxton has struggled since the baserunning collision with the White Sox. Points to an injury that he has yet to recover from.

 

 

On the play he should've run over the ump. 

[2wins87]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

Didn't watch the game live and am only seeing the play on the video clip, but that is one fine catch and tag by Jeffers.  He had to keep his eye on a one-hop throw and immediately apply the tag.  He did it all in one motion that had multiple ways for it to go wrong.  Probably really good technique (what do I know), definitely excellent execution IMO.

Was going to comment about the play too. I'll add that I think his timing for when he moved to receive the ball was really good.

After a few calls last year it's really not clear exactly what the catcher is supposed to do to avoid a lane violation in some cases, but I don't know how they could have called it there and thankfully the umps in NY agreed. He was standing on the fair side of the plate and only moved to catch the ball when he absolutely needed to.

I guess what has been called as a lane violation are situations where the catcher moves to receive the ball just a little too early before it actually gets there. Jeffers did a nice job avoiding anything that they could have possibly called against him.

[2wins87]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

Didn't watch the game live and am only seeing the play on the video clip, but that is one fine catch and tag by Jeffers.  He had to keep his eye on a one-hop throw and immediately apply the tag.  He did it all in one motion that had multiple ways for it to go wrong.  Probably really good technique (what do I know), definitely excellent execution IMO.

Was going to say something similar. I will add, I think his timing on moving to receive the throw was really spot on leaving no way the umps could have called a lane violation. 

After a few calls last year, it's not totally clear what a catcher needs to do to avoid a lane violation in some circumstances, but it's hard to see how Jeffers could have done it better, clearly set up in fair territory and only moving to receive the throw at the last possible moment. 

[Melissa]

3 hours ago, Florida Flash said:

Thank goodness for good pitching, but 2 runs, 3 hits, 11 K's. Boring.

I was at the game (up in Section 308 this time). Anything but boring! Moved along quickly, with some thrilling defense. Couldn’t see the Torkelson catch of the pop foul at the net, but those double plays were beautiful. The Castro - Correa - Jeffers tag out at the plate was amazing. Those extra outs kept Detroit off the board. Then Duran came in to his flame thrower theme and slammed the door. Boring?

[Althebum82]

On a completely different topic......it has been very rare for this franchise over the years to resort to either an opener or bullpen-only pitching strategy.  For this I have been very grateful!   I don't understand what prompted it to be used for this particular game. but I was totally prepared to complain about it in the post-game summary today.  Instead, I am forced to be extremely happy with the results, dammit.  Maybe instead I need to complain about why they don't do it more often?  Naw,  I'll just have to stuff my whining for now until the next time it is tried,....

[jkcarew]

5 hours ago, wornsmooth said:

Personal opinion ( but no knowledge)

Buxton has struggled since the baserunning collision with the White Sox. Points to an injury that he has yet to recover from.

 

 

Maybe. But my opinion is that he’s a horrifically erratic hitter and always has been. He’s a low OBP guy who strikes out a lot (both K% and OBP actually currently BETTER than last year)…and the offensive value is completely tied to HR’s and XBH. And those rates have been otherworldly, unsustainably high probably, the last couple years. But this year those rates have normalized pretty much right from the beginning. He’s sitting at a career 770 OPS right now, and 740 this year.

[JD-TWINS]

5 hours ago, RickOShea said:

I don't know how you talk about the Twins and not make it sound like Baldelli is severely lacking in leading this team.  

You want him to do some cheers??

Players play - they’re not 14 year olds.

Baldelli isn’t giving up HR’s, that’s Ryan……..how’s he supposed to lead Buxton when he swings at anything & K’s in one AB and the next AB he takes 3 straight strikes. How? 

Jorge Lopez - Moran - Pagan…….these guys need to get outs and Baldelli will look pretty smart.

Wouldn’t worry about Rocco …….batters need to start to perform - pitchers need to hold leads……….if players perform, there are very few bad managing issues!

[Melissa]

26 minutes ago, Althebum82 said:

On a completely different topic......it has been very rare for this franchise over the years to resort to either an opener or bullpen-only pitching strategy.  For this I have been very grateful!   I don't understand what prompted it to be used for this particular game. but I was totally prepared to complain about it in the post-game summary today.  Instead, I am forced to be extremely happy with the results, dammit.  Maybe instead I need to complain about why they don't do it more often?  Naw,  I'll just have to stuff my whining for now until the next time it is tried,....

The word was that with sixteen games in sixteen days this was a way to give the starters each a day off.

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, D.C Twins said:

Yes... because unfortunately, nothing about this win suggests that the fundamental flaws are improving and the formula for this win is not sustainable.  

One game won’t tell that either way. It’s one game. But it is one we won. You seem disappointed we did.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

2 hours ago, D.C Twins said:

Yes... because unfortunately, nothing about this win suggests that the fundamental flaws are improving and the formula for this win is not sustainable.  

And yet they are in first place.  A win is a win.  The much maligned bullpen came through.  Enjoy it a little.  

[bighat]

4, 1, and 2 runs in the three games so far in this series. The only team "reverting to form" is the Twins. At this point we have to believe at least one of these three things; 

1. The Twins hitters are less talented than hitters on other teams, and thus strike out more. 

2. The Twins hitters are on par with hitters on other teams, they've just faced much better pitching and thus strike out more.

3. The Twins hitters are on par with hitters on other teams, but the team has a philosophy that it's better to just close your eyes and swing as hard as you can. It's not working, but the team either is unwilling or unable to change the approach. 

#3 seems most likely to me.

What the Twins have become is exactly what MLB fans dislike about the game today. Rob Manfred stepped in with the pitching clock and the bigger bases to try and remedy this. Many teams have adjusted and offense is up - but not in Minnesota. They're still stuck in 2019 and haven't been able to move on from the juiced ball era. 

At least give us something and get Buxton out in CF? At it's core, baseball is entertainment. And we are not entertained. 

[Linus]

Baseball is a funny game. Our bullpen frequently implodes even when we only need a couple of innings. They roll out the whole pen in this game and they are nearly perfect. Might be time for Headrick to get a real shot at a permanent spot not just the shuttle. 

[Peter]

Huge win-3.5 lead in division!!! Gotta win today. Our top aces needs to step it up. How does Detroit tee off on them??? Just glad we are in bad division. Still think we will win it but division games are huge and will be difference in winning it. Not if but when buxton snaps out of slump. Let’s win today and finish off homestand with wins!!

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, bighat said:

4, 1, and 2 runs in the three games so far in this series. The only team "reverting to form" is the Twins. At this point we have to believe at least one of these three things; 

1. The Twins hitters are less talented than hitters on other teams, and thus strike out more. 

2. The Twins hitters are on par with hitters on other teams, they've just faced much better pitching and thus strike out more.

3. The Twins hitters are on par with hitters on other teams, but the team has a philosophy that it's better to just close your eyes and swing as hard as you can. It's not working, but the team either is unwilling or unable to change the approach. 

#3 seems most likely to me.

What the Twins have become is exactly what MLB fans dislike about the game today. Rob Manfred stepped in with the pitching clock and the bigger bases to try and remedy this. Many teams have adjusted and offense is up - but not in Minnesota. They're still stuck in 2019 and haven't been able to move on from the juiced ball era. 

At least give us something and get Buxton out in CF? At it's core, baseball is entertainment. And we are not entertained. 

I get this take, in general, although it’s pretty silly to suggest the team philosophy is to close their eyes and swing. Assuming that was a bit of sarcasm due to frustrations about their offense, something you are not alone in. Many even predicted this at the beginning of the season. I still think the potential is there and not sure what the block is. We see glimpses then nothing. It’s been the source of most frustrations this year and the subject of many, many threads here.

What I don’t get about this take is posting this in this recap thread after yesterday’s victory. We won. It was a great game of baseball. While yes, I get that some still are disappointed that we won because the offense wasn’t more entertaining, but I saw a great game of baseball (what I was able to watch). Surprisingly good pitching from a group that has let us down frequently, but didn’t yesterday, and some great defense, also something that has let us down on occasion, but didn’t yesterday. Pitching and defense are fun to watch when it clicks, and it did yesterday. I don’t understand why that one game can’t be celebrated despite the fact that the team still has some glaring problems, I guess for you we can’t,