Garver blames Jeffers....

[mnfireman]

Our old buddy blames Ryan Jeffers for the benches clearing the other night, and sounds like he feels slighted for being traded.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/mitch-garver-blames-ryan-jeffers-for-benches-clearing-incident/ar-AA1fOCA6

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

Hard to say whether Garver's comments really indicate any bitterness about being traded. That may be reading too much between the lines.

But I did wonder—leaving aside whatever one may think of retaliatory HBPs; I think they're usually dumb—if there had to be a plunking, did it have to be Garver? I know he and Gray never played together, but it seems unnecessary to choose to hit a guy who used to play for your team and seemingly never had a reputation as anything other than a good teammate. 

[Muppet]

I've never met any these guys so I wouldn't have a clue about whether they are infantile brats or responsible well-adjusted gents. But in the 2020's almost everyone gets traded, DFA'd, not resigned, etc... at some point, so if you can't get over that you're going to have a hard career. Also, right or wrong, plucking Garver made sense as he was the other team's catcher and Jeffers was the one who got hit first. He should have been expecting it. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

I think it’s weird that he thinks it is the reaction to getting plunked by Jeffers that started the whole thing.  I would have thought that the stupendous bat flip from the other night would have been the impetus. If I had hit a home run like that, I would have flipped the bat up, caught it, and kept twirling it until I got all the way around the bases! 

[nicksaviking]

Yeah, I agree with Garver. Jeffers obviously wasn't intentionally hit, there were runners on the corners and Dunning had walked about a dozen batters by that time; he had zero control.

Jeffers gave a bunch of attitude as if he was hit because of the game winning HR the day before. Maybe Gray hits Garver anyway, but he likely felt obliged after Jeffers public preening. Either way, whether it was on Jeffers, Gray or the Twins bench, the dust up and the ensuing warnings were 100% Twins instigated.

[chpettit19]

21 minutes ago, whosafraidofluigirussolo said:

Hard to say whether Garver's comments really indicate any bitterness about being traded. That may be reading too much between the lines.

But I did wonder—leaving aside whatever one may think of retaliatory HBPs; I think they're usually dumb—if there had to be a plunking, did it have to be Garver? I know he and Gray never played together, but it seems unnecessary to choose to hit a guy who used to play for your team and seemingly never had a reputation as anything other than a good teammate. 

He'd homered earlier in the day and came up the very next inning after they hit our star catcher. I don't think they hit Jeffers on purpose, but Garver was a reasonable target if you were going to retaliate. 

[Dman]

Yeah it all started with Jeffers Bat flip.  If Texas knew how hard wins (especially late game wins) for this team have been they would have understood the excitement and bat flip.

There is no way for a team to look more like a petulant child (i.e. bad) when they plunk the guy with the game winning hit from the night before.  If I were Garver I would blame my own pitcher for plunking Jeffers for no good reason.  I don't love teh retaliation by the Twins any more than Texas plunking Jeffers but that is what games devolve into when a team just has to enforce the unwritten rules.

[nicksaviking]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

Yeah it all started with Jeffers Bat flip.  If Texas knew how hard wins (especially late game wins) for this team have been they would have understood the excitement and bat flip.

There is no way for a team to look more like a petulant child (i.e. bad) when they plunk the guy with the game winning hit from the night before.  If I were Garver I would blame my own pitcher for plunking Jeffers for no good reason.  I don't love teh retaliation by the Twins any more than Texas plunking Jeffers but that is what games devolve into when a team just has to enforce the unwritten rules.

There's no way they intentionally beaned Jeffers with guys on first and third while they are fighting for their playoff lives. It was a coincidence. 

If they were going to plunk him, why not plunk him in the first inning instead when there were two outs and 1st base was already open?

[Dman]

16 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

There's no way they intentionally beaned Jeffers with guys on first and third while they are fighting for their playoff lives. It was a coincidence. 

If they were going to plunk him, why not plunk him in the first inning instead when there were two outs and 1st base was already open?

It just seemed odd that is was him to me.  So many other guys to hit and it ends up Jeffers?  Also Twins are the second or third most plunked team this year.  All HBP are accidents I guess.  Why hit Garver then or was that just another accident as well.

Farmers HBP was an accident as well but it was damaging.  Maybe it was unintentional to Jeffers I have no idea but that is one mighty coincidence IMO.

[GusGus11]

28 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

There's no way they intentionally beaned Jeffers with guys on first and third while they are fighting for their playoff lives. It was a coincidence. 

If they were going to plunk him, why not plunk him in the first inning instead when there were two outs and 1st base was already open?

No way??

Did you watch the first 3 innings?? Yes, Dunning was wild. But EVERY miss was yanked badly outside to righties. Then when Jeffers comes up he conviently puts it right into his ribs/forarm area??

Im down with you arguing major conicidence but to say ther is no way it was intentional is nuts. I get why the Twins thought it immediately. He threw in a location he wasnt hitting for 3 innings to the exact batter they would bean if intentional

TBH my reason for hesitation is I think it would have been better to hit Jeffers the AB before after Wallners triple with the momentum and first base open. But maybe the Rangers thought that was too obvious and may get a immediate ejection.

Either way, the only thing clear is there is no way to say for certain it was or wasnt. It was suspect and in a weird place in the game.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

6 minutes ago, GusGus11 said:

No way??

Did you watch the first 3 innings?? Yes, Dunning was wild. But EVERY miss was yanked badly outside to righties. Then when Jeffers comes up he conviently puts it right into his ribs/forarm area??

Im down with you arguing major conicidence but to say ther is no way it was intentional is nuts. I get why the Twins thought it immediately. He threw in a location he wasnt hitting for 3 innings to the exact batter they would bean if intentional

TBH my reason for hesitation is I think it would have been better to hit Jeffers the AB before after Wallners triple with the momentum and first base open. But maybe the Rangers thought that was too obvious and may get a immediate ejection.

Either way, the only thing clear is there is no way to say for certain it was or wasnt. It was suspect and in a weird place in the game.

For all we know Jeffers may have done something they didn't like in the first 3 innings,  and they would rather get to the batter after him.  It also set up a force out at home.  Who knows what they were thinking,  but sure looked intentional to me.  

[AlwaysinModeration]

Here’s a wild theory (no pun intended):  Dunning knew the plan was to plunk Jeffers going into the game, and it messed with his head, which is why he had such unusual control problems early in the game.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I think it’s weird that he thinks it is the reaction to getting plunked by Jeffers that started the whole thing.  I would have thought that the stupendous bat flip from the other night would have been the impetus. If I had hit a home run like that, I would have flipped the bat up, caught it, and kept twirling it until I got all the way around the bases! 

IKR!

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

It just seemed odd that is was him to me.  So many other guys to hit and it ends up Jeffers?  Also Twins are the second or third most plunked team this year.  All HBP are accidents I guess.  Why hit Garver then or was that just another accident as well.

Farmers HBP was an accident as well but it was damaging.  Maybe it was unintentional to Jeffers I have no idea but that is one mighty coincidence IMO.

No, Gray intentionally beaned Garver, because of MLB's stupid 'unwritten rules' bit which Jeffers all but obligated him to enforce after his showboating the prior inning. 

[nicksaviking]

19 minutes ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

Here’s a wild theory (no pun intended):  Dunning knew the plan was to plunk Jeffers going into the game, and it messed with his head, which is why he had such unusual control problems early in the game.

If the Rangers were willing to throw the game just to plunk Jeffers, after all the money and prospects they spent building one of the highest profile rosters in league history, the GM should have fired the manager mid-game.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

5 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

IKR!

Not to sell myself short, but I could never pull off that dress!  

[Muppet]

41 minutes ago, GusGus11 said:

Did you watch the first 3 innings?? Yes, Dunning was wild. But EVERY miss was yanked badly outside to righties. Then when Jeffers comes up he conviently puts it right into his ribs/forarm area??

Im down with you arguing major conicidence but to say ther is no way it was intentional is nuts. I get why the Twins thought it immediately. He threw in a location he wasnt hitting for 3 innings to the exact batter they would bean if intentional

After watching the reply, it didn't look intentional to me. Maybe Dunnings apparent dissatisfaction with the pitch was an act, but given that Gallo was up next, I don't think we can assume it was totally accidental. Yes Gallo can hit home runs once in awhile, but the chances are much higher that you get out of the inning quickly pitching to Gallo compared to Jeffers. So, to get to Gallo, you can either intentionally walk Jeffers, or just plunk him.

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

No, the Gray intentionally beaned Garver, because of MLB's stupid 'unwritten rules' bit which Jeffers all but obligated him to enforce after his showboating the prior inning. 

I hate the unwritten rules as much or more than anyone so I don't agree with what the Twins did there.  Still I don't buy Garver's explanation.  It is like no pitcher plans to bean someone unless of course you can get them to admit it.

Garver states, hey, no way we bean Jeffers because Gallo is up.  Who would you rather pitch to?  Gallo who K's at 43% rate with a .177 BA or Jeffers with a .280 BA and 29% K rate.  It seems obvious to me and it seemed obvious to the Twins.  They were gonna work around Jeffers and why not plunk him in the process.  I can acknowledge Dunning did not have great control but he didn't hit anyone else with that crappy control only Jeffers.

[umterp23]

Easy for Garver to say it was Jeffers along with Dunning making a comment as well that he didn't know where his pitches were going  control wise.  He hadn't missed to a right inside all game until then, he was missing wide left.  Sorry, lame excuse by both Garver and Dunning.

In going back to Jeffers getting plunked, he was pissed as anyone would be for getting hit in ribs with 90+ heater.  He looked at Dunning who had turned his back and then went to first base.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Garver on the other hand turned his whole body to face Gray and mouthed off.  He was pissed, so be it but she showed a tad more "aggression" towards Gray

All said and done, twins take 3 out of 4 and sent Rangers home unhappy.  The fact they had to bring it up in their commentary post game and as far as I can tell Twins haven't speaks volumes.  

As far as bat flips and showboating, that is the 1st time Jeffers has done anything in such a way to draw attention to himself.  After reading this article about Jeffers prep for potential at bat, not surprised he was a tad joyous on the outcome:

https://www.mlb.com/twins/news/ryan-jeffers-pinch-hit-homer-powers-twins-past-rangers

Go Twins

[DocBauer]

I only saw replays, and what happened live, so my context is not from the heat of the moment.

Was Jeffers hit by accident? Possibly. But a hell of a coincidence don't you think? And yes, it would make a lot more sense to face Gallo, the human K/no contact machine, than Jeffers in that inning.

Gray throwing at Garver had to be intentional in retaliation. The fact he's a catcher only helps confirm this.

Both sides are very wrong, IMO. Throwing a hard object at a high velocity at defenseless batter is childish, brattish behavior. 

The whole idea that a player "showed up" or "insulted" an opposing team because a batter, Jeffers in this case, hit a momentous, game winning blast, took 4 steps, and then flipped his bat aside is ridiculous. It's called displaying emotion in a celebration worthy moment. He didn't point fingers at anyone, he didn't talk smack, he did nothing egregious in any way toward anyone.

If what he did was wrong, then there should be a plunking and bases clearing fight after every such game when the winning team collects at home plate to a slap high fives, pour Gatorade, dance, and whatever else they decide to do. Surely that far and away is more insulting, celebrating the demise of the losing team

 And I don't say this as a Twins fan, but as a sportsman and baseball fan. These unwritten rules are outdated and childish. 

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Not to sell myself short, but I could never pull off that dress!  

Yeah, she'd slap you if you tried.

[jkcarew]

Much ado about nothing. Jeffers knew why he was plunked…and if someone sticks a microphone in front of Garvey and asks him about it, he’s not going to say his current teammate was out of line…he’s going to back his teammates.

Moving on.

[Shaitan]

I don't care who was right or wrong.

But Garver is the one keeping this alive by whining to the press. He has every right to be mad. But he could also be mad while inside the clubhouse and say "tomorrow is another game" to the press. 

[nicksaviking]

I'm not casting aspersions on anyone, but this thread seems kind of funny at the moment. We're OK blaming the Twins for a lack of clutch hitting, pitching meltdowns, poor bullpen management, questionable roster moves, bad free agent signings and lopsided trades, but not for over reacting to a hit by pitch. Seems like the old anecdote where it's OK for me to beat up my little brother, but Mitch Garver better not lay a finger on him.

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Not to sell myself short, but I could never pull off that dress!  

Personally, there's no way I pull that dress ON. 

About 5 sizes too small. At least 5.

[USAFChief]

And I LOVE this ****. Don't pimp a HR if you don't wanna get drilled in the ribs. 

And if you do drill the guy, expect one in return.

It's baseball. I love it.

[Nine of twelve]

I guess today is nitpick day for me.

I’m pretty sure that “getting beaned” is baseball slang for getting hit in the head by a pitch, bean being a slang term for head. It’s not used for a HBP elsewhere on the body. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

And I LOVE this ****. Don't pimp a HR if you don't wanna get drilled in the ribs. 

And if you do drill the guy, expect one in return.

It's baseball. I love it.

Kinda surprised Jeffers didn’t stand in the box wearing his catcher chest protector

[KirbyDome89]

Down 4-1 in the 3rd with two runners on, riding a 7-8 game losing streak at that point, fighting for playoff spot, and we think a pitch that catches Jeffers at or below the tricep (in his 2nd AB) was intentional? C'mon guys....

[stringer bell]

6 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

There's no way they intentionally beaned Jeffers with guys on first and third while they are fighting for their playoff lives. It was a coincidence. 

If they were going to plunk him, why not plunk him in the first inning instead when there were two outs and 1st base was already open?

Am I wrong about this? "Beaned" when referring to a hit by pitch is supposed to mean being hit in the head. Jeffers took a pitch on the arm. Beaning is very serious and can end careers. Getting hit in the wallet or the arm hurts and leaves a mark, but usually the batter walks away from the plate.