Is It Too Early To Start Dreaming About 2023?

[terrydactyls]

To me, the 2022 Minnesota Twins are finished.  Even if they manage to hang on to the Central Division, they will probably be ousted from the playoffs in the first round.  So my question is:  Should we start planning for next year?

For a quick summary to start things going, I think that all the Twins need for 2023 are 

1.  Three good starting pitchers.

2.  Four good relief pitchers.

3.  A solid catcher who can hit .250.

4.  Better bench players.

5.  A new manager? (I'm still in a quandary about this).

That doesn't seem like too much to ask, does I?

[KirbyHawk75]

C Jeffers

1B Kirlioff

2B Polanco

SS TBD

3B Miranda

LF Larnach

CF Buxton

RF Kepler 

DH Arraez

 

That is a really good lineup.  Question will remain about pitching staff after Gray, Ryan, Duran, and Jax.  The rest of this year's staff could just leave for all I care.  

Will Alcala and Maeda be healthy?

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, KirbyHawk75 said:

C Jeffers

1B Kirlioff

2B Polanco

SS TBD

3B Miranda

LF Larnach

CF Buxton

RF Kepler 

DH Arraez

 

That is a really good lineup.  Question will remain about pitching staff after Gray, Ryan, Duran, and Jax.  The rest of this year's staff could just leave for all I care.  

Will Alcala and Maeda be healthy?

Not to mention very inexpensive. 

[ashbury]

On 7/27/2022 at 3:09 PM, terrydactyls said:

Is It Too Early To Start Dreaming About 2023?

Not at all.  What steps will they need to take in order to start the defense of their World Championship?

You said, "dreaming".

[RpR]

Wow, last year so many were having coniptions about Simmons and how Correa would be a god send, but now that they got Correa they do not want him any more; gee golly Wally, so many have found some thing else to have coniptions about  and want Jeffers at catcher and third baseman whose fielding is sub-par..

Good grief!

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, KirbyHawk75 said:

C Jeffers

1B Kirlioff

2B Polanco

SS TBD

3B Miranda

LF Larnach

CF Buxton

RF Kepler 

DH Arraez

 

That is a really good lineup.  Question will remain about pitching staff after Gray, Ryan, Duran, and Jax.  The rest of this year's staff could just leave for all I care.  

Will Alcala and Maeda be healthy?

That looks a lot like this year's lineup, minus Correa.

[ashbury]

14 minutes ago, RpR said:

Wow, last year so many were having coniptions about Simmons and how Correa would be a god send, but now that they got Correa they do not want him any more; gee golly Wally, so many have found some thing else to have coniptions about  and want Jeffers at catcher and third baseman whose fielding is sub-par..

Good grief!

Is it possible that these are different people, saying different things, at different times, under different circumstances?

[RpR]

21 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Is it possible that these are different people, saying different things, at different times, under different circumstances?

More like the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.?

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not to mention very inexpensive. 

I agree. That's why I think that TBD shortstop is going to be someone most of us will be happy with.

I also don't think Kepler's here next year. Seems like a likely trade to me, there's just getting to be plenty of options for his spot. 

Also, and this won't be popular, but if we're penciling in Arraez at DH, the team should be seeing if they can maximize his value this offseason for a really good arm. I know he's a good player, but if he reverts back to 2020-2021 Arraez, we start to talk about if he's really an everyday player.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I agree. That's why I think that TBD shortstop is going to be someone most of us will be happy with.

I also don't think Kepler's here next year. Seems like a likely trade to me, there's just getting to be plenty of options for his spot. 

Also, and this won't be popular, but if we're penciling in Arraez at DH, the team should be seeing if they can maximize his value this offseason for a really good arm. I know he's a good player, but if he reverts back to 2020-2021 Arraez, we start to talk about if he's really an everyday player.

I'd consider dealing whichever of him or Polanco returns more near ready value. I agree Kepler is a very possible trade candidate. 

[strumdatjag]

1 hour ago, KirbyHawk75 said:

C Jeffers

1B Kirlioff

2B Polanco

SS TBD

3B Miranda

LF Larnach

CF Buxton

RF Kepler 

DH Arraez

 

That is a really good lineup.  Question will remain about pitching staff after Gray, Ryan, Duran, and Jax.  The rest of this year's staff could just leave for all I care.  

Will Alcala and Maeda be healthy?

Someone at TD should be assigned the task of counting the number of misspellings of AK’s last name.    Notice that I didn’t even try.

[RpR]

32 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd consider dealing whichever of him or Polanco returns more near ready value. I agree Kepler is a very possible trade candidate. 

Yeah, who needs a good defense any way?

[gman]

Even if it doesn't work out this year, I would like to see them pick up Mahle this year.

Then   Gray, Maeda, Mahle, Ryan, Ober. With Duran, Jax, Winder, Alcala, Moran, + + +.

The lineup should be solid.

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, RpR said:

Yeah, who needs a good defense any way?

I'm not sure your point.... If that's about Kepler, in saying he's a likely trade target, not that I'd trade him. If that's about Polanco, we don't know how arraez is. So, as usual, I have no idea your point. 

[tony&rodney]

You can dream about your afterlife, but the 2022 Twins are alive and well and in first place. 

[Vanimal46]

I’m at this point now. It’s over. We’ll have plenty of time to talk about 2023 when the season is officially over. My main concern right now is how close are we to actually winning a playoff series? How many of the long term core players are actual solutions for the team? 

[gunnarthor]

On 7/27/2022 at 5:09 PM, terrydactyls said:

To me, the 2022 Minnesota Twins are finished.  Even if they manage to hang on to the Central Division, they will probably be ousted from the playoffs in the first round.  So my question is:  Should we start planning for next year?

For a quick summary to start things going, I think that all the Twins need for 2023 are 

1.  Three good starting pitchers.

2.  Four good relief pitchers.

3.  A solid catcher who can hit .250.

4.  Better bench players.

5.  A new manager? (I'm still in a quandary about this).

That doesn't seem like too much to ask, does I?

They'll be able to provide a solid enough offense but they need a whole new pitching staff. Outside of Duran and Gray it gets ugly, fast. I also think they need a new pitching philosophy which will require an overhaul of the FO. That probably won't happen so we'll probably get more of the same but hoping it's better with Maeda and Mahle,

[Number3]

Definitely time to stop dreaming about 2022. Cleveland is disappearing in front and they will soon be looking up at Chicago. September may not matter after all. The offense is non existent and is the only team in MLB unable to score consistently. Pathetic job by the non players.

[Doctor Gast]

Absolutely too soon. It's not over until it's over. If we expect our Twins not to give up, why should we? Seems a little hypocritical to me. I don't want my Twins to give up so I'm sure #### won't. Fight til the end. I'll dream after the season.

[Number3]

22 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Absolutely too soon. It's not over until it's over. If we expect our Twins not to give up, why should we? Seems a little hypocritical to me. I don't want my Twins to give up so I'm sure #### won't. Fight til the end. I'll dream after the season.

Ok Yogi; problem is, it is over.  There are about 9 games left against KC, LAA and Det. but Twins are underdogs in all of the other games left. They do not have anyone playing at a dependable level including the $115 million man and All Star Buxton. Ironically the pitching has been good enough that they could hang around but runs are an alien concept.

[Doctor Gast]

12 minutes ago, Number3 said:

Ok Yogi; problem is, it is over.  There are about 9 games left against KC, LAA and Det. but Twins are underdogs in all of the other games left. They do not have anyone playing at a dependable level including the $115 million man and All Star Buxton. Ironically the pitching has been good enough that they could hang around but runs are an alien concept.

With our potential, I'm not going to give up until it's mathematically impossible. I guess we are different people with different perspectives.  

,

[SanoMustGo]

4 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

With our potential, I'm not going to give up until it's mathematically impossible. I guess we are different people with different perspectives.  

,

If they are healthy I MIGHT agree, but looking at the lineup recently no chance against any decent teams.  I’ll be happy if it’s not a total collapse.  Both Boston and the Giants are no worse than the Twins.  Look at Texas, worse than both and we saw how that turned out.

[RpR]

Some thing, and have come to believe it people who own and/or run the team have caused a psychological depression among the player which is why most are going through the motions at the plate and not much more with, rookies not knowing their future from game to game and a bouncing Byron being the straw that broke the Camels back.

[bean5302]

Rotation
Ryan
Gray
Mahle
Duran
Maeda

Bundy and Archer may be gone to other teams as the Twins will decline their options. Winder and Ober move to the bullpen. Duran moves to the rotation.

C - Jeffers
1B - Kirilloff
2B - Polanco
3B - Miranda
SS - Lewis
LF - Larnach
CF - Buxton
RF - Wallner
DH - Arraez
UI - Martin
UO - Gordon
Bench Bat - Julien
BC - ?

Kepler gets traded. Correa & Sanchez become free agents and sign with other teams. Urshela and Garlick get non-tendered and sign elsewhere.

Bullpen
Ober
Winder
Alcala
Thielbar
Lopez
Jax
Dobnak
Megill

Duran moves to the rotation (wishful thinking, I know). Fulmer becomes a free agent and signs elsewhere. Coulombe and Pagan get non tendered.

Something like that. I suspect next year's team will look an awful lot like this year's team considering there's not much in the minors.
 

[RpR]

42 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

C - Jeffers
1B - Kirilloff
2B - Polanco
3B - Miranda
SS - Lewis
LF - Larnach
CF - Buxton
RF - Wallner
DH - Arraez
UI - Martin
UO - Gordon
Bench Bat - Julien
BC - ?


 

Hmm, a run-at-will catcher; an unknown deficient compared to Kepler Right Fielder; a deficient Short Stop compared to Correa and a cast  if wishful thinking utility, except Gordon.

100 losses here we come.

[gman]

"BARRING INJURY" I think next years team could be much better than this year even without Correa. The rotation will be better from the start of the year and Paddock will be back sometime next year. Until he was injured he looked better than I thought he was. The top of the bullpen will be much stronger. A couple of openings at shortstop and backup catcher. Kepler is signed, and could be a filler until someone from the minors step-up. Probably the biggest decision will be who starts the year as the regular shortstop.A clubhouse void of constant injuries could go a long way to solidify this team. But that's a real big caveat.

[bean5302]

7 hours ago, RpR said:

Hmm, a run-at-will catcher; an unknown deficient compared to Kepler Right Fielder; a deficient Short Stop compared to Correa and a cast  if wishful thinking utility, except Gordon.

100 losses here we come.

There's that unbridled pessimism and misery we're looking for!

 

[Rosterman]

The current team is still very much active with nearly 40 games left of play. It will hopefully be exciting playing half of those games against inter-division rivals.

2023...

Correa makes a decision and the Twins either have a lot of money to spend, or just some money to spend.

Rotation: Ryan, Gray, Mahle, Maeda. WInder, Ober, Paddack seem to be keepers. Prospects: Return of Balazovic, Sands, Enlow, Varland, Woods-Richardson.

Bullpen: Duran, Jax, Alcala, Lopez, Moran, Pagan. Possible returns: Thielbar, Coulombe, Megill, Romero, Stashak, Fulmer. Prospects: Sisk, Henriquez. Would like to see them pick up a real arm or two, not the scrap heap of minor league free agents. Lopez will determine closer status in September. Duran is our closer of the future if he can stay healthy.

Yes, the Twins need a catcher, determine who will play shortstop, and be nice to have a solid bench bat. The outfield is a mess if you look at Kirilloff/Buxton/Larnach...all coming off injuries. Who plays first? Arraez is not the slugger you want at first, but holds the bag well. He is not also the sluffer you want at DH. The Twins have to make a decision on Urshela for another season. Not a bad guy to keep as the bench bat to join with, say, Gordon and Celestino. Again, shortstop - Palacios until Lewis returns (would be nice if Palacios was up right now). Boy,m look a the Twins Top Prospects list, they have a bunch of shortstops (no catchers, though).

2022 has showcased a lot of talent that could be the Twins future for the next few seasons, opening up spaces to trade a Kepler or Polanco before their contracts expire. I like the farm system and hope the Twins push more on their draft class and also players in the current system. Helman and Julian are interesting to watch. Is Wallner on the cusp? WIlliams and Isola possible catchers? Is Camargo a keeper or gone? There will be a good crop of pitchers hitting AA next season that could advance early to AAA.

But we have all winter to think about 2023. Let's enjoy having a competitive team that is still playing above .500 ball and in the mix.

 

[RpR]

9 hours ago, bean5302 said:

There's that unbridled pessimism and misery we're looking for!

 

The Pie-in-the-Sky wishful thinking that so many here have for rookies  does not carry over well into the real world.

[Linus]

Forget 2023 the Twins can still win the division so that is what I’m focusing on. As someone said up thread I expect the Twins to fight till the end so I will too. They just need to be the best team in their division for the next 40 games and they are in.