Miller: Several teams pursuing Berríos

[Brock Beauchamp]

Unsurprising really, but it's the first news I've seen of... anything... in the past 36 hours or so.

If there's that much interest in Jose, it's going to be hard to walk away from the best team's best offer.

And I'm increasingly okay with that, really. If the Twins can't keep Berríos, and it seems really unlikely they can if they have to compete directly with the likes of the Yankees in a strict financial sense.

If they can acquire an elite A+ or AA pitching prospect plus more, it's probably the right decision for the organization.

https://www.startribune.com/as-trade-deadline-nears-twins-getting-plenty-of-calls-on-jose-berrios/600082567/?refresh=true

[Squirrel]

Anyone but the Yankees ... ugh ... but yeah, it's the right move, if the right price is given

[Tim]

I think once the Scherzer domino falls, the Twins are going to have a flurry of moves happen

[wsnydes]

I'm starting to drift to this line of thinking too.  Just listening to Berrios' tone makes me think that he's after a payday and intent hitting on the market.  And I don't blame him for that.  It might make quite a bit of sense to deal him if there's that much interest.

[wsnydes]

1 minute ago, Tim said:

I think once the Scherzer domino falls, the Twins are going to have a flurry of moves happen

Bryant too, potentially.

[NapoleonComplex]

Berrios to the Yankees starts with Dominguez AND Gil or Schmidt, maybe both. I would also want at least one other top 10 prospect, preferably a position player like Peraza. Yeah, it's very greedy and a quite possibly an over pay. But the Yankees are rarely in a rebuild phase because they have the resources and the allure to bring in top MLB FA talent.

[gunnarthor]

Seattle and Mets are mentioned here

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/07/jose-berrios-trade-rumors-twins-mariners-mets.html

Hancock or Kirby would be logical targets.

 

[chopper0080]

I am not sad if they can't find a good offer for Kepler and keep him. He is exactly the type of player the Twins need to keep around with their financial restrictions and I don't believe it is in their best interest to trade him in general. 

[dex8425]

30 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Seattle and Mets are mentioned here

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/07/jose-berrios-trade-rumors-twins-mariners-mets.html

Hancock or Kirby would be logical targets.

 

Berrios for Emerson Hancock, straight up, would be a deal I'd do even though it would make the team worse next year. 

[Tim]

Emerson + Trammell would be ideal

[chpettit19]

22 minutes ago, dex8425 said:

Berrios for Emerson Hancock, straight up, would be a deal I'd do even though it would make the team worse next year. 

Sounds like Seattle is also looking at bats. Wonder if there's a way to package Berrios and one of our hitters to bring back Hancock and Kirby. Can't imagine Seattle would have any desire to trade either, let alone both, but if that's the only other deal the Twins make this season I'd be happy with those 4 arms (these 2 plus the 2 from Cruz trade) being what we added to the farm.

Note: This isn't realistic. The Mariners aren't shipping out both guys. But this is my 1 outrageous dream-of-a-trade-to-make-this-season-better idea.

[Linus]

I would definitely deal Jose. He’s not signing here and this team has too far to go. I think next year should be a year of building and sorting things out with an eye towards 2023. 
 

I wonder if the Yankees would trade Gil for Jake Cave?

[Dodecahedron]

16 minutes ago, Linus said:

I would definitely deal Jose. He’s not signing here and this team has too far to go. I think next year should be a year of building and sorting things out with an eye towards 2023. 

Sure, but you have to consider the Twins don't have the prospects to field a good pitching staff next year, and it looks like if the Twins want to bring in a free agent or two they will need to overpay them.  

This just doesn't seem like the right moment to send away Berrios, even if he only has a year and half left with the Twins.  With Berrios being the only starter of any reputation on the team, sure others want him.  But the Twins would be making their situation a lot worse over the long haul if they get rid of him now.

[bean5302]

With the kind of smoke around Berrios and the lack of any leaks regarding extension talks, I'd have to say I'm pretty confident he gets traded. I'm not surprised the Mets are balking after they absolutely stole Stroman from the Blue Jays. I think most fans were shocked at what the Blue Jays took. As I recall, it cast serious doubts on whether or not the Twins were even making an effort at all at getting Stroman.

[chpettit19]

17 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

Sure, but you have to consider the Twins don't have the prospects to field a good pitching staff next year, and it looks like if the Twins want to bring in a free agent or two they will need to overpay them.  

This just doesn't seem like the right moment to send away Berrios, even if he only has a year and half left with the Twins.  With Berrios being the only starter of any reputation on the team, sure others want him.  But the Twins would be making their situation a lot worse over the long haul if they get rid of him now.

Define "long haul." It's looking more and more likely that Berrios leaves after 2022. So if long haul means anything beyond 2022 not sure how getting players (likely very good prospects) back for him that will be around in 2023 and beyond hurts the long haul. If long haul simply means 2022, then yes, losing Berrios hurts as you're likely not getting someone back who will outperform him in 2022.

[bean5302]

Prospects are great, but teams competing for a World Series teams do not count on them to lead the way. Starting pitchers are always viewed with skepticism until they prove it at the MLB level, and you can bet no team expecting to compete for a World Series is counting on any of their pitching prospects leading the way so even if the Twins farm system was absolutely stacked, I think it would be foolhardy to count on prospects carrying the heavy load.

When teams sign players in free agency, I think it should always be expected they're going to overpay relative to the cost of pre-arbitration and arbitration players. Also, I think it's fair to "overpay" when you fail to develop talent, but you still want to compete while paying your young players peanuts relative to their production. After all, for their first 6 years at the MLB level, players are almost always dramatically underpaid.

• When Justin Moreneau won the MVP in 2006, he made $385,000.
• Joe Mauer, who had a better year than Morneau in 2006, only made $400,000.
• Mike Trout made $1,000,000 in 2014 after winning RoY in 2012 and placing 2nd in MVP voting in 2012 and 2013.
• Johan Santana won his first Cy Young in 2004 while making $1,600,000.

There are at least 5 pitchers better than Berrios slated to hit free agency at the end of this year and the Twins should have enormous payroll capacity to work with.

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, Dodecahedron said:

Sure, but you have to consider the Twins don't have the prospects to field a good pitching staff next year, and it looks like if the Twins want to bring in a free agent or two they will need to overpay them.  

This just doesn't seem like the right moment to send away Berrios, even if he only has a year and half left with the Twins.  With Berrios being the only starter of any reputation on the team, sure others want him.  But the Twins would be making their situation a lot worse over the long haul if they get rid of him now.

This makes no sense.  It sounds to me like others are using the assumption our odds of resigning him are low in direct competition to the Yankees / Redsox / Dodgers, etc.  Therefore, we would be making the situation worse next year assuming they can't sign a comparable free agent next year.  However, the probability of being better in the long-term is increased.  They still have the payroll they did not spend on Berrios and whatever prospects they get in trade.  If you can't sign him, and therefore trade him, we are better of in the "long haul" by trading him.  

[TwinsDr2021]

4 hours ago, dex8425 said:

Berrios for Emerson Hancock, straight up, would be a deal I'd do even though it would make the team worse next year. 

So a Berrios for a guy with 27 innings in High A, with only 27 K's and 12 walks?

Thanks but no thanks

[chpettit19]

Rosenthal reporting Twins have offers in hand from SD (sounds like they're getting Scherzer, though), Tor, LAD, TB, NYY.

[mike8791]

Looks like you can scratch Pods.  Rosenthal reports they've landed Scherzer.

I, for one, am happy to hear that because it means Twins might squeeze more out of Dodgers, who have more higher end prospects, especially pitchers.  Unfortunately, Friedman not one to give up top prospects, but maybe he'll be a little more motivated now.  Package of Gray(or May), Lux and another top 10 pitching prospect would be a very strong haul.  

[Dman]

Kind of hoping Dodgers or Jays are willing to significantly overpay as I like what both systems have to offer.  Who ever gets Berrios is gonna be lucky though as he is a low injury risk and solid option in any rotation.  I don't like losing him but am hoping the return makes me feel better.  I guess we all will find out soon enough.

[jaimedude]

Agreed with Dman both the Jays and the Dodgers have a lot to offer in play for Berrios. Still would much rather have the Padres in the mix than have them land Scherzer though, although that may work to our advantage as Berrios is the next best starter available to having Scherzer on the market. 

[dex8425]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

So a Berrios for a guy with 27 innings in High A, with only 27 K's and 12 walks?

Thanks but no thanks

Hancock is a better pitcher than any of the guys in the Twins system including Balazovic. He was the 6th overall pick last year. 2.3 ERA for the first 27 innings of pro ball and WHIP of 1.0 is nothing to sneeze at...

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

50 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Rosenthal reporting Twins have offers in hand from SD (sounds like they're getting Scherzer, though), Tor, LAD, TB, NYY.

Well this is thoroughly depressing news for people who want the Twins to keep Berrios and be competitive in 2022.

[insagt1]

TWins FO says they want to be competitive again in 2022, so they won't give Berrios away for low minor league prospects. Berrios has sort of 'said' he won't mind being traded, so Twins need to pull the trigger. But they will wait till the last minute to get the best possible return. I think it will happen.

Meanwhile, there are other pitching scraps that need to go. And Simmons and Cave must go too.

I would go into overdrive to get Buxton signed to an extension. Just do it Twins.

I think Donaldson stays .

[TwinsDr2021]

8 minutes ago, dex8425 said:

Hancock is a better pitcher than any of the guys in the Twins system including Balazovic. He was the 6th overall pick last year. 2.3 ERA for the first 27 innings of pro ball and WHIP of 1.0 is nothing to sneeze at...

Great and probably true

Since and including 2018 he has pitched 219.1 total innings and never more than 90.1 in one season. With the way the Twins bring pitchers along (innings count) he is 3 to 4 years away from being a guy expected to pitch 150-175 innings. and obviously Seattle is also bringing him along slowly because he got those 27 innings in 8 starts.

I would love to have in a trade, but also want George Kirby and another guy included. or Hancock and Julio Rodriguez, I am shooting for the stars.

I think fans that are ok settling for one guy that is in A ball for Berrios is absolutely crazy talk.

 

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Well this is thoroughly depressing news for people who want the Twins to keep Berrios and be competitive in 2022.

Think it depends what the return is. If the Twins bring back a May or Gray from LAD they aren't sitting much worse for next year than with Berrios, but would also have another prospect or 2 as well. If it's a Gray+Lux return it could be argued they're in a better spot with their SS spot filled and Berrios' 10m to spend on other pitching plus Gray in the rotation over someone in the Happ range.

[KirbyHawk75]

I just hope Falvey doesn't screw this up.  This trade will be one of the most important trades in team's history.  

[mike8791]

I mentioned on another blog today, but with MLBTR reporting LA willing to give up Graterol, he would be a nice late-inning addction to a Twin's pen that is in dire need of a complete teardown.  Who do the Dodgers need as a sweetener to get this done?  I would think Sano might fit in nicely there.

[TNtwins85]

When are all you on the keep Berrios train gonna realize he’s not signing here. Stop being delusional. He wants top dollar on the open market. Now is his peak value. Anytime after the deadline his value is just gonna decline. Tell yourself this is a good thing. This is a great opportunity for the twins.