Front Page: Michael Pineda Suspended 60 Games For Banned Substance

[Bill Brown69]

He got us 5 wins or more on something banned. 

We can look at this like he cost us the postseason or we can look at it like he gave us the postseason.

[yarnivek1972]

If I read the rules correctly, if Pineda serves part of his suspension next season (which he will), he is also ineligible for postseason in 2020. That seriously limits his negotiating leverage.

[yarnivek1972]

He should have asked Polanco if it was a good idea....

 

I would still offer Pineda a contract for next season. Pro-rated to deduct the games missed, of course.

The Twins (or any other team) wouldn’t have to “pro-rate” his salary. He doesn’t get paid for games (or collect MLB service time) while he’s suspended.

[bcs4]

The Twins are lucky he wasn't caught sooner.  They might be behind the Indians.

 

I don't think he'll be back.  If they lose in the post season he'll take a good part of the blame whether he deserves it or not.  If he does decide to come back he'll be dodging batteries.

[Sam Morley]

A team reliant on Mike Pineda for success in the post season has no chance in the post season anyway.

[Monticore]

Oh, ****. You'd think they could have gotten a win out of it last night. Thorpe, Smeltzer, Graterol...they need a minor miracle now to win the division.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

They have 2 players injured that can be used for the exception

plus like 3-5 that could be added to the IL but aren’t yet

[VATwinsFan]

Team up Smeltzer with Dobnak, and Thorpe with Littell since all of them, while not spectacular, have shown they are, as they say, "serviceable".  You then have Stashak/Romero/Graterol/Stewart standing by if any of those four falter.

 

Big opportunity for the young guys to grow up fast and shine.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Oh, ****. You'd think they could have gotten a win out of it last night. Thorpe, Smeltzer, Graterol...they need a minor miracle now to win the division.

Pineda had 4 more starts left. Their post season chances are not solely tied to 20% of the games remaining.

[Bomba2026]

#@&! So MLB couldn't believe Big Mike only gave up 1 run and figured something was shady?? So now we will get the "well they hit all those Bombas cuz they are all doped up"? What an embarrassment AGAIN to this team. I wonder if hitting yourself with a foul ball hurts as bad as falling on glare ice 10 times a year? Let's win this. Jake O looks mad and that is good, We still got Eddie and if the Squirrel can pitch...well there you go! GARVER!! Nice Bomba!

[Otto von Ballpark]

If I read the rules correctly, if Pineda serves part of his suspension next season (which he will), he is also ineligible for postseason in 2020. That seriously limits his negotiating leverage.

I think the postseason ineligibility only applies to the season in which the suspension starts. (This Twitter link to the agreement says "commenced")

 

https://twitter.com/dohyoungpark/status/1170444742833954816?s=20

 

Although since he had the suspension reduced, he actually could have been eligible for this postseason, if he was able to serve his 60 days prior. Apparently the extra postseason ineligibility only applies to full 80 game, non-reduced suspensions?

Edited September 7, 2019 by spycake

[Brock Beauchamp]

Oh, ****. You'd think they could have gotten a win out of it last night. Thorpe, Smeltzer, Graterol...they need a minor miracle now to win the division.

They’re still going to win the division. It’s what happens after that where we run into a problem.

[DocBauer]

First thought, just for an instant, was another Randball article.

 

I am not going to crucify Pineda or call him a cheater or anything like. Not enough affirmative information. But I will say he was silly or down right stupid in his thinking. In this day and age, you just dont just TAKE something without it being prescribed and reported to the ML office.

 

Other than that, all I have is; "Smeltzer, Thorpe, you're up next. Do the best you can and go get 'em boys!"

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Keep calm and carry on Twins and posters.

[jimbo92107]

 

The Twins (or any other team) wouldn’t have to “pro-rate” his salary. He doesn’t get paid for games (or collect MLB service time) while he’s suspended.

Good. That saves Management an uncomfortable silence. 

[minman1982]

Well, Stewart, Smeltzer, or Thorpe, who is going to step up?  If we win this series with Cleveland this weekend and are 7.5 up, the Twins should try to rest Berrios, Gibson, Perez, and Odorizzi.  Go with a six or seven man rotation and give these guys a chance to earn a spot.  It is also worth pointing out that you can get away with a four man rotation in a five or seven game playoff series if you have enough in your bullpen to cover some innings.  Unfortunately, Pineda would probably have been one of those four.

[glunn]

 

The way the rules work, the 20 game reduction in the suspension actually does mean something. The arbitrator is only empowered to reduce the suspension if he specifically finds that the player was not guilty of negligence or try to hide his use of a banned substance. In other words, the arbitrator found that Pineda just did something really stupid; he ingested over-the-counter diet pills that contained a banned diuretic. Doing so is a no intent offense. If you adjust the diueretic, you get suspended.

What that really boils down to is that this is not a situation where you have a guy using a PED to try to improve performance. He took some over-the-counter diet pills to try to lose weight. We can call that stupid and the results for the team are significant, but we should not say this is a player trying to cheat.

If you are correct, then it seems that this was mere stupidity, not negligence, and that there was an express finding that he was not trying to hide his use of a banned substance. I would like to know what actually happened, and if I am understanding you analysis then my initial rage against Pineda will be greatly reduced.

 

Can you provide any additional support for this position?

[Riverbrian]

 

Well, makes NOT pursuing a starter during the trade deadline really stand out as a season moment now. So, the Twins have Stewart, Thorpe, Smeltzer who should be given every opportunity to step up and show they belong on the team next year! Let's hope the Twins can still win the division. Sunday's game will be an extra special turning poin of where the rest of the season will go!

 

Stewart, Thorpe, Smeltzer, and don't forget Dobnak.  I have always been in full support of giving any of these guys a shot. 

 

 

However... It's September 7th. It's probably too late. 

 

So, who do you choose?

 

Do they have a sufficient sample of MLB performance data to aid the front office in the selection? 

Are you going to get enough data before the month is up to hand one of them a playoff roster spot?

How many starts does Smeltzer get to prove he is the one?

How many starts does Dobnak or Thorpe get... if Smeltzer uses some starts up and fails to prove he is the one? 

 

I can certainly understand the anger and disappointment directed toward Pineda. I have that same disappointment but Pineda isn't where my eyeballs are focused. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

If you are correct, then it seems that this was mere stupidity, not negligence, and that there was an express finding that he was not trying to hide his use of a banned substance. I would like to know what actually happened, and if I am understanding you analysis then my initial rage against Pineda will be greatly reduced.

 

Can you provide any additional support for this position?

He took a banned substance..... Does it matter why? He hurt the team. Does it matter why, other than to keep himself alive, is there a good reason?

[Dantes929]

 

Pineda had 4 more starts left. Their post season chances are not solely tied to 20% of the games remaining.

Exactly..   No guarantee he wins those games and it certainly doesn't guarantee we lose those games without him.     Probably has a net effect of a game or so.    

[glunn]

 

He took a banned substance..... Does it matter why? He hurt the team. Does it matter why, other than to keep himself alive, is there a good reason?

I think that it matters in the context of the discussion of his character and the appropriate level of anger that fans should be feeling. For example, if he took an over the counter diet pill that he was told was OK, then my anger level would be less than if he was trying to conceal use of PEDs.

 

Some posters have been very derogatory as to Pineda's character and I think that LAVikesfan has cast some doubt on the theory that Pineda was trying to mask use of PEDSs.,

[Bandit34]

 

Not unexpected when you factor that a Minnesota sports team was actually generating some excitement.   No fan base is as cursed as we are.  

I'm also a Buffalo Bills fan, so you might want to take that statement back. At least our Twins have won 2, (3 when including the 1924 Senators) World Series, my Bills never have won a Super Bowl. 

[Mike Sixel]

I think that it matters in the context of the discussion of his character and the appropriate level of anger that fans should be feeling. For example, if he took an over the counter diet pill that he was told was OK, then my anger level would be less than if he was trying to conceal use of PEDs.

 

Some posters have been very derogatory as to Pineda's character and I think that LAVikesfan has cast some doubt on the theory that Pineda was trying to mask use of PEDSs.,

If he knew it was banned, does it matter why?

[glunn]

 

If he knew it was banned, does it matter why?

If he knew that he was taking a banned substance then I suspect that the reason would not matter to me. So I think that we are in agreement on that point.

 

If he thought that he was taking a perfectly OK diet pill, would that matter to you?

 

I think that his intent matters to the extent that people want to judge his character.

[USAFChief]

If he knew that he was taking a banned substance then I suspect that the reason would not matter to me. So I think that we are in agreement on that point.

 

If he thought that he was taking a perfectly OK diet pill, would that matter to you?

 

I think that his intent matters to the extent that people want to judge his character.

According to this website, it's only available by prescription, so "over the counter" appears questionable.

 

https://www.drugs.com/hydrochlorothiazide.html

 

Either way, taking something "from a friend" is at best, risky to the point of being stupid.

 

And I dont think he's stupid.

[Linus]

Like all the other guys that are busted, he’s lying. Isn’t it amazing that all the guys that are suspended have some unfortunate story about how it happened. He was cheating and got caught. Don’t buy the story of him or any other cheater

[nicksaviking]

He took a banned substance..... Does it matter why? He hurt the team. Does it matter why, other than to keep himself alive, is there a good reason?

It would matter to me if I was considering re-signing him. I’d feel a lot better that his mid-season success wasn’t due to something unsustainable without cheating.

[glunn]

 

According to this website, it's only available by prescription, so "over the counter" appears questionable.

https://www.drugs.com/hydrochlorothiazide.html

Either way, taking something "from a friend" is at best, risky to the point of being stupid.

And I dont think he's stupid.

I think that sometimes people who are not stupid do a stupid thing.

 

This is from ESPN's website:

 

"Pineda originally was suspended for 80 games, but the ban was reduced to 60 on appeal, as a compelling case was made that the banned diuretic he used was not a masking agent for performance-enhancing drugs, a source told ESPN's Jeff Passan."

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27560862/twins-rhp-pineda-given-60-game-suspension

 

It seems to me that if he was not taking the diuretic to mask PEDs, then it was, at worst, stupid to take the diuretic. Unless ESPN's source is lying, Pineda made a "compelling case" that he was not masking PED use.

 

It also appears that some over the counter supplements illegally include prescription drugs.  https://www.goodrx.com/blog/common-prescription-medications-found-in-dietary-supplements/

 

I would also invite you to discuss the post from LAVikesfan -- post #65 in this thread. I am having trouble poking holes in his analysis.

 

Until yesterday, most of us were Pineda fans. He pitched well for our favorite team and we would have loved to meet him. Now he is being labeled a cheater and worse. It seems to me that there is significant reason to believe that maybe he made a stupid decision, but is not a cheater.

 

I am not saying that Pineda did not cheat. Maybe he did. But it sounds like on appeal he was able to persuade the authorities that he was not masking PEDs. 

[h2oface]

 

The way the rules work, the 20 game reduction in the suspension actually does mean something. The arbitrator is only empowered to reduce the suspension if he specifically finds that the player was not guilty of negligence or try to hide his use of a banned substance. In other words, the arbitrator found that Pineda just did something really stupid; he ingested over-the-counter diet pills that contained a banned diuretic. Doing so is a no intent offense. If you adjust the diueretic, you get suspended.

What that really boils down to is that this is not a situation where you have a guy using a PED to try to improve performance. He took some over-the-counter diet pills to try to lose weight. We can call that stupid and the results for the team are significant, but we should not say this is a player trying to cheat.

 

.... and if you were trying to mask, and you are fat, and are taking some type of PED and want to lose weight, too........ it is a perfect dumb like Columbo defense. Ingenious, infact. Or perhaps it is just as Pineda says, and he still thinks water weight is a way to diet. It is irresponsible for any ball player to not clear any chemical at all with team sources, whatever it is. If you can get suspended for taking a pill..... how hard is it to always clear it with the team? I find it hard to believe any player would not check, if they are infact not trying to cover anything up.

 

Also, if "the banned diuretic he used was not a masking agent for performance-enhancing drug's", as Passan says a source says....... then why the hell is it on the banned list, and deemed worthy of suspension at all? 

[David HK]

 

Wow.

And what George Carlin said you cant say on TV.

I'm going for all 7, right in a row.

 

Gawd, how much does that suck? Our one starter who, in the 2nd half has been strong and getting stronger, the one guy who's been taking his turn and doing something positive with it...

 

This is what I don't get: You're a pro athlete for many years. You have access to the best medical maintenance professionals and substances on somebody else's dime. You know, and have seen teammates and others get pinged for this. And somehow, you're still going to put something in your body where the sales pitch is some dude saying, "Pssst, hey buddy..."

 

What is it the kids say these days?

 

SMFH.