BREAKING: Twins to Acquire Right-Handed Reliever Jeff Hoffman from Blue Jays

[clone52]

2 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

It looks like since late June he’s been dominant

2.31 ERA for the season of you take out his two worst outings.  Strikes out of a ton of gus and not bad on walks.

[LyleCole]

2 hours ago, LambchoP said:

Curious if he's a rental or has control for next year?

He is under contract for $12,666,667 in 2027.

[S Bart]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

So you don't have a link then?

And indeed, Go Navy! Go immediately, since it'll take you so GD long to get there.

 

You are usaf but you have a picture of gomer pyle..USMC..which is Dept of the Navy? I will search...I saw what I saw...anyways.  go Twins...take care ...and God 🙌 

[Colbeh]

21 minutes ago, twinstalker said:

This is the same for Kremer and, due to salary and rental, Minter, too.  The Twins got three pretty bad players and gave up a healthy amount for that.  What they did get are guys who've pitched before.  Way, way, way too much to give up for this all.

Hill and Reyes are two of the less than 7-8 guys I wouldn't give up for anything but a great return.  Pena is probably nothing, but I wouldn't give him up as a throw-in for this kind of value.

It's a pretty ugly deadline.  Did the Twins get what they needed?  Probably not, and that answer should be an easy yes for Reyes, Hill, and Pena.

Don't be so cynical.

Minter and Hoffman are pretty bad? That's just a troll comment right there.

The prospects the Twins gave up are long shots to become actual major leaguers. Its unrealistic to think that Reyes, Hill and Pena will all be major leaguers. Odds are only 1 of them will be, we're talking about our #7 prospect and guys outside the top 15-20. Very small amount of them actually make it and contribute. 

Kremer is not really exciting but he's being brought in to be a #5 pitcher for us and give us depth we do not have. Maybe the Twins see something they can tweak, he could be a solid RP next year or a reliable spot starter.

Hoffman can be a head case but he has absolutely filthy stuff. Better chance than not that he will be our best BP arm for the next 1.5 years. Minter is also a really good specialist and if he does well I could see him wanting to stick around for another year or two

[TNtwins85]

37 minutes ago, twinstalker said:

This is the same for Kremer and, due to salary and rental, Minter, too.  The Twins got three pretty bad players and gave up a healthy amount for that.  What they did get are guys who've pitched before.  Way, way, way too much to give up for this all.

Hill and Reyes are two of the less than 7-8 guys I wouldn't give up for anything but a great return.  Pena is probably nothing, but I wouldn't give him up as a throw-in for this kind of value.

It's a pretty ugly deadline.  Did the Twins get what they needed?  Probably not, and that answer should be an easy yes for Reyes, Hill, and Pena.

What do you suggest they should’ve given up? 

[jkcarew]

2 hours ago, Patzky said:

Answer: He will play ALL OF THEM.

But he won’t.

[Dman]

You generally don't win trade deadline deals at least not long term (well unless you are the Blue Jays and get a team to give up 5 years of control for an all star closer).  You are typically exchanging the present for the future. Future prospects don't always work out but when they do it's usually a massive win because of the years of control.  

There's times when you just have to give up future assets to help your team fight for the playoffs and hopefully in the playoffs. So losing Hill and Klein were the cost.

I still think Hill has an incredible future.  Not sure if it will be as a starter or pen arm.  He throws hard and has a good K rate.  He seems like a good long term bet for the Blue Jays.  Once they get him throwing more strikes his value could sky rocket.  If he keeps walking as many guys as he is now he'll never make it.

In some ways moving Klein made sense.  He is taking up a 40 man spot and his stuff hasn't improved at all this year.  So the Twins can't use him this year and maybe not next year either. The funny thing is if the Jay's fix his home run problems they might have a Louie Light on their hands. He's a close to ready bullpen arm or he's a AAAA guy.  It's hard to know right now, but he's an arm the Twins could afford to lose IMO.  We'll see how that one goes.  They got him outside the draft so easy come, easy go I guess.

Pena is a light hitter with good contact skills.  I think he is good org filler but I just haven't seen the dominant bat from the FCL.  A nice lottery ticket for the Jays but I had tons of guys ahead of him and with the new crop of A ball hitters it would have been even more guys ahead of him.

I don't love deadline deals because I love prospects too much, but this is the cost of doing deals at the deadline.

[thelanges5]

2 hours ago, Patzky said:

Guess we will lose Alex Johnson for nothing :(

Yeah there were some potential hitters who could have helped, I'm hopeful that tre lack of traded means that internal help is imminent. I'm also aware that imminent help could take the form of Matt Wallner.

 

Alex Jackson - I always think about this guy when I hear this name

[TNtwins85]

2 minutes ago, Colbeh said:

Don't be so cynical.

Minter and Hoffman are pretty bad? That's just a troll comment right there.

The prospects the Twins gave up are long shots to become actual major leaguers. Its unrealistic to think that Reyes, Hill and Pena will all be major leaguers. Odds are only 1 of them will be, we're talking about our #7 prospect and guys outside the top 15-20. Very small amount of them actually make it and contribute. 

Kremer is not really exciting but he's being brought in to be a #5 pitcher for us and give us depth we do not have. Maybe the Twins see something they can tweak, he could be a solid RP next year or a reliable spot starter.

Hoffman can be a head case but he has absolutely filthy stuff. Better chance than not that he will be our best BP arm for the next 1.5 years. Minter is also a really good specialist and if he does well I could see him wanting to stick around for another year or two

Thank you for the rationalization of these moves. I think some forget this is real life Major League Baseball with real players as opposed to some delusional MLB the show game where all stars can be had for an actual bucket of balls and all of your unwanted D quality players.

[Andy MacPhail]

IMO, this Hoffman trade is the best deadline buy we've had, in a long time. Very comfortable with who we gave up & we got a proven closer, who wants to prove himself again. I'd grade this deadline at least an C+ (normally it's been lot lower) & could even grade it much higher, depending on how Kremer works out.

[twinstalker]

1 hour ago, singlesoverwalks said:

Has anybody else brought up this bit of Twins history? 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=5421810

Capps: 1.9 WAR over 3 seasons for the Twins, then retirement. 

Ramos: 10.6 WAR over the next six seasons for the Nats, at a time when Joe Mauer had to move to first base.

But this is the kind of move you make when ownership says go for it. The Twins did win the division that year. Let's hope they pull it off this year. 

To be clear, Ramos' expected WAR when they traded him was not horribly far from that number, and Capps was also around his number, so that will go down as one of the worst trades in the 21st century, not just on the Twins.  As much as I like Hill and Reyes, their combined expected WAR isn't remotely close to Ramos' at the time of the trade.  Hoffman and Kremer's combined number might be less than Capps', but it might be close.

Also, the Twins were going to win the division and didn't need a mediocre to average reliever to get them there.  They thought "closer" meant something when it didn't/doesn't mean jack.  So not only did they make a hugely bad trade, they made it under pretenses that as false as could be.

[LyleCole]

1 hour ago, Fatbat said:

High price in assets to pay for Hoffman but he gets big outs. Getting him next season will be huge as the young kids will be promoted to Varsity and the playoff window opens for real. 
 

Anyone that is upset that the Pohlads are spending money should just HUSH UP! This is just a start to spending money n a playoff team. We should expect even more this offseason!!!

They are not really "spending money".  They made the minimum moves to keep them in contention for the last wild card playoff spot and perhaps even a division title in a division that will probably be won with a near .500 record.  WIth respect to money, they are still tens of millions of dollars below the median salary for major league baseball.  

And all of these moves are really just window dressing if the offseason next season is just the same as this past offseason where signing Josh Bell was the big move.

The Hoffman trade is not a bad trade for a team that can absorb $12.7 million in payroll next season.   I think that Dasan Hill is a prospect, but he has a very serious lack of control and command, averaging 7.4 BB/9 this season and 6.5/9 for his total minor league career.   I think he is the only prospect that I would term "high marginal" because he will not last long with that level of control.  (I think high marginal is a 10-12-15% type chance of making it).

Klein is a low marginal prospect (I think of this level as about a 5% of becoming a productive major league player).  Dameury Pena is a prospect I know little about, but he seems to be a diminuative infielder without much pop in his bat, but high contact skills and reasonable OBP.   If you look at his stats the first part of the year in FT Myers they do not look all that bad:   slash 322/393/381 with 27 walks and just 10 strikeouts.   But, of his 77 hits, only 10 of them were XBH:  7 2B  1 3B  1 HR.   WIth that lack of power it will be difficult for him to keep up that OPS level as he moves through the baseball levels because more advanced pitching will not be afraid of him.

We obviously did not make a major move, so we kept all of our best prospects with perhaps losing Hall who was in the top 15, along with Reyes who was a rising Latin player (is that term still used anymore????).   But it was a cheap cost to acquire a two pitchers with team control in 2027 and a good  left handed reliever that is a rental (but perhaps he returns if we invest in the offseason).

We still have Rodriguez, Tait and Quick along with the guys that are probably untouchable.

[Derojo]

Hoffman has next year too. Unless they plan on re-signing him this move makes little sense, if he would want to sign.

I guess the Twins think they'll be in play next year for something bigger. All of this, I hope, isn't merely to be a Wild Card, or even to win the division. The World Series must be the goal. If not next year, then in two to three years. 

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, Heistyman said:

Why do I feel like we just traded for Ron Davis ?

He gave me my first autograph before a game in 1986. And then he blew a save.

Here's hoping you're very wrong.

[Greglw3]

4 hours ago, MMBoys93 said:

Zoll is not it lol

Waited all day and this is the trade? A reliever who has sucked for 2 years and is still owed 15 million…and traded a borderline top 100 guy for him.

 

You couldn’t be more off base! Here is Hoffman’s performance since the start of June

IP- 22.1 

H-13 

ER-3 

BB-8 

K-30

ERA-1.21

Edited 46 minutes ago by Greglw3

[Derojo]

Hoffman hasn't been as consistent as Gomez so far this year. Gomez, obviously does well with closing games. I'd keep Gomez as the closer, with right/left handed batter being a consideration.

Since the Twins are making many moves, it might be a good idea to get a couple of AAA players up, or at least one. The others can come in September. I like Larnach, but if either he or Jeffers is traded, Jenkins can come up now.

[Greglw3]

45 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

He gave me my first autograph before a game in 1986. And then he blew a save.

Here's hoping you're very wrong.

Heistyman: Because you’re a pessimist or you’re so traumatized by the Ron Davis experience that you can never trust a reliever again (I too lived through the persistently depressing Ron Davis experience!). To make you feel better, here are Hoffman’s stats since the beginning of June:

IP- 22.1 

H-13 

ER-3 

BB-8 

K-30

ERA-1.21

Edited 44 minutes ago by Greglw3
Revise stats to actual, made mistake initially

[D.C Twins]

7 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

He gave me my first autograph before a game in 1986. And then he blew a save.

Here's hoping you're very wrong.

Found an old glove last year with his autograph as well as Gary Ward.  Cown Jewl of the glove was Gary Gaetti. There were a handful that were illegible... so I'll choose to believe one of them was Kirby 

(narrator's voice) It was not... 

[twinstalker]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

If they are up before about mid-August, the likely lose rookie status next year, and would lose that extra year of control. 

If they are on the 40 man this year, and there is a lockout, they cannot play/practice next year in the minors. 

They lose an extra year of control from early August to late August?  These are some fancy new rules.  An Aug 1 call-up gets about 60 days of service time, A Sep 1 call-up gets about 30 days.  If they continue to be on the active roster forever after, they have six years after this year of team control.  In both cases.

Now once you start talking about demotions, then yeah, to get under a year of service time by the end of next year, the Aug 1 promotion has to be demoted for 30-ish days more than the Sep 1 promotion.  But rookie status doesn't matter in the least wrt service time.  It does matter for ROY and the new incentives pertaining to keeping the player up (only Jenkins is a realistic candidate for that, then Lackey).

[AlLagoon]

Hill has high end potential - hmmmmm

[twinstalker]

1 hour ago, TNtwins85 said:

Exactly. I think it’s a very solid deal!

Ignorance is bliss, and I'm not trying to be mean.  The Twins gave up far more in Hill than any other team would for Hoffman.  The Pirates got Weaver for arguably less, and Weaver is a ton better than Hoffman at the same dollar amount or less.

[DJL44]

14 minutes ago, twinstalker said:

They lose an extra year of control from early August to late August?  These are some fancy new rules.  An Aug 1 call-up gets about 60 days of service time, A Sep 1 call-up gets about 30 days.  If they continue to be on the active roster forever after, they have six years after this year of team control.  In both cases.

They lose rookie status and eligibility for 2027 ROY award.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

The pen is better now than it was a week ago, and FAR better than when the season started. I’m much happier now

[Mike Sixel]

17 minutes ago, twinstalker said:

They lose an extra year of control from early August to late August?  These are some fancy new rules.  An Aug 1 call-up gets about 60 days of service time, A Sep 1 call-up gets about 30 days.  If they continue to be on the active roster forever after, they have six years after this year of team control.  In both cases.

Now once you start talking about demotions, then yeah, to get under a year of service time by the end of next year, the Aug 1 promotion has to be demoted for 30-ish days more than the Sep 1 promotion.  But rookie status doesn't matter in the least wrt service time.  It does matter for ROY and the new incentives pertaining to keeping the player up (only Jenkins is a realistic candidate for that, then Lackey).

Thanks. I may have read it wrong. 

[strumdatjag]

3 hours ago, Rufus said:

The White Sox and Guardians made some big moves.  The Twins did not (at least yet, barring in last minute moves) mess with the big league team.  The Tiger sand Royals pretty much threw in the towel.

With this .500 team in a year when the Dodgers have broken the bank to win its 3rd title in a row, I like the idea of making fewer buys at the deadline.  Actually. I was hoping Jeffers could be dealt for something but I think the ownership is worried about further angering of the fan base (screaming “Cheap Pohlads”).   That’s probably correct financially but wrong from a standpoint of fielding a better team till 2030.  

[Wedman13]

The re-loading jays?  Weren't they buyers last year?   Really?? They are horrible and have no compass.  A strange way to put their recipe of success.  

Im  a bigger seller than buyer but Zoll crushed this.  Klein,?   Hill is terrible.  All arm, zero skill.

Let's ride!

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, twinstalker said:

This is the same for Kremer and, due to salary and rental, Minter, too.  The Twins got three pretty bad players and gave up a healthy amount for that.  What they did get are guys who've pitched before.  Way, way, way too much to give up for this all.

Hill and Reyes are two of the less than 7-8 guys I wouldn't give up for anything but a great return.  Pena is probably nothing, but I wouldn't give him up as a throw-in for this kind of value.

It's a pretty ugly deadline.  Did the Twins get what they needed?  Probably not, and that answer should be an easy yes for Reyes, Hill, and Pena.

Kremer coming back from injury (not sure what?) and he has been decent and he’s been BAD ……..7 starts & 36 innings.

3.23 - 4.12 - 4.10 - 4.19 are his last 4 year’s ERA and over 600 innings in those 4 years. I’m not thrilled but not terribly disappointed since I do not swoon over prospects ………just don’t pay much attention until guys are doing something at AAA……not saying I’m right, just not worried about guys the organization thinks they can part with…….can’t make a trade a/o giving up something of value.

Minter is a solid rental …….don’t see the complaint angle?

Hoffman has an ERA of 3.98 over 43 innings this year and he’s rebounded big time over last 2 months, from what I read here. He’s not what he once was, between the ears, but he still has pretty decent stuff. Maybe new coaching & teammates will have even more of a positive effect?

I wanted Team to go after Arraez and Ray &/or May or Mize ………. didn’t happen. Fingers crossed - K.C. for 3 and then we’ll see where they’re at……..

[USAFChief]

10 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They lose rookie status and eligibility for 2027 ROY award.

"A player maintains MLB rookie eligibility for the Jackie Robinson Rookie of the Year Award unless, in a previous season, they exceed 130 at-bats, 50 innings pitched, or 45 days on an active major league roster (excluding time on the injured list). "

 

If my math is correct they can recall Jenkins Aug 15 and retain ROY eligibility, assuming he stay through the end of the season. 

Can't confirm for some reason, but I'm pretty sure any postseason time doesn't count against him.

Personally I'd hope none of this matters in the least in any decision to add or not add Jenkins. 

 

Edited 53 minutes ago by USAFChief

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Bradley says hi. As do Tait and Abel. 

Trading RPs in a lost year is 100% the right thing to do. This team would be better had they done more trading in previous lost years, imo.

No one is a fan of the Varland trade, other than BJs and their fans. 

We don't know what they have in Tait and Abel, and I would take Duran over those two every single time. 

[Wedman13]

48 minutes ago, Dman said:

You generally don't win trade deadline deals at least not long term (well unless you are the Blue Jays and get a team to give up 5 years of control for an all star closer).  You are typically exchanging the present for the future. Future prospects don't always work out but when they do it's usually a massive win because of the years of control.  

There's times when you just have to give up future assets to help your team fight for the playoffs and hopefully in the playoffs. So losing Hill and Klein were the cost.

I still think Hill has an incredible future.  Not sure if it will be as a starter or pen arm.  He throws hard and has a good K rate.  He seems like a good long term bet for the Blue Jays.  Once they get him throwing more strikes his value could sky rocket.  If he keeps walking as many guys as he is now he'll never make it.

In some ways moving Klein made sense.  He is taking up a 40 man spot and his stuff hasn't improved at all this year.  So the Twins can't use him this year and maybe not next year either. The funny thing is if the Jay's fix his home run problems they might have a Louie Light on their hands. He's a close to ready bullpen arm or he's a AAAA guy.  It's hard to know right now, but he's an arm the Twins could afford to lose IMO.  We'll see how that one goes.  They got him outside the draft so easy come, easy go I guess.

Pena is a light hitter with good contact skills.  I think he is good org filler but I just haven't seen the dominant bat from the FCL.  A nice lottery ticket for the Jays but I had tons of guys ahead of him and with the new crop of A ball hitters it would have been even more guys ahead of him.

I don't love deadline deals because I love prospects too much, but this is the cost of doing deals at the deadline.

Go ahead and root for the jays b/c a guy from Concordia has had one decent half year for a terrible team.  I'll take Rojas every day, but enjoy your '5 years'  I'm sure Lois will be great at 34 yrs old in Toronto