If He's Fired, Rocco Baldelli Will Only Be Minnesota Twins' “Fall Guy”

[T.O.]

1 hour ago, Nashvilletwin said:

One opinion: he stinks at transitioning minor leaguers, particularly position players; not one single person on the team this season is overperforming; and net/net his dugout decisions probably cost us a handful of games vis-a-vis other managers’ per season.

He has to go….its time.

 

Agree.

I don't understand the effort to assign "Blame". Forget the division of blame. Forget that the whole organization stinks. Just look at the manager. Look at the team. The team acts disconnected,  uninterested, barely trying, not playing as a team. No passion.
Listen to Baldelli talk to the press. Watch him in the dugout. He sounds/acts so disconnected and uninterested. No passion.

Add in the things in the quote above. He is not helping. He's part of the problem. They need someone else. It may not get better but a new approach, a new attitude, might change things.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, PatG said:

Isn't our pitching staff much better than 5 years ago?

Not really. Prime Maeda, Berrios, Pineda, Hill, pre-finger Dobnak.

Org Top 10 SP prospects. Jordan Balazovic (#85 overall), Jhoan Duran, Blayne Enlow, Lewis Thorpe

[Linus]

6 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I'd do a complete overhaul as well, but I don't see more than the manager getting canned while ownership is in flux.

But firing the manager while the GM/POBO is still here could provide some insight. Specifically, it may provide details into where the breakdown in development is coming from. Currently, we all see it's broken, but no one can exactly put their finger on why or how or where or when. Just replacing the manager might give a better idea where fault lies. Then when the GM/POBO gets replaced later, you can more directly avoid the same dynamic or Venn diagram overlap that you had before.

Agree that Falvey isn’t going anywhere until the Pohlads sell. As far as figuring out who to blame I have no issue with that. It’s 80% Front Office and 20% Rocco simply because they impact every aspect of the organization including who the players end up being that the manager manages. 

[big dog]

1 hour ago, FargoFanMan said:

Irrelevant whether they spend money or not. Those are both salary cap leagues. It’s not baldelli’s fault but at this point you have to send a message and maybe salvage the poor start.  It won’t be players, FO or ownership so that leaves one guy. 

Um, spending money is not irrelevant. The point is that those teams spent money, even if they had to spend it. The Twins aren't. At least not enough.

[FargoFanMan]

10 minutes ago, big dog said:

Um, spending money is not irrelevant. The point is that those teams spent money, even if they had to spend it. The Twins aren't. At least not enough.

Baseball is different than those leagues. If they spent $700M on Juan Soto would we be looking at a different result? Maybe, but probably not. Spending money buys you aging talent. This team has talent. They just haven’t used it. They just don’t have the other intangibles and they don’t do the fundamentals right among many other things. Buxton and Correa can’t carry a baseball team when so many other things are going wrong. Not that they’re helping but it’s apples and oranges as far as “spending money” goes.

[Blyleven2011]

5 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I personally don't see much upside in a replacement either.  The only "solution" is fielding a much better group of position players and I don't think replacing the manager fixes that.

But, as @Danchat mentioned, I'm game to see how much of what we see day to day as being organization vs. Rocco.  I'm also willing to bet that whoever replaces him does things very, very similarly.

Rocco needs to go and his replacement wont be much better ... falvey will take his spot in the dugout instead of his twins suite  ...

He makes all the calls anyway  so might as well sit in the dugout with his head up his a** ....

[MMMordabito]

If they just would have fired him back when one TDer pointed out that he was at -42 manager WAR .... Opportunity missed.

[The Great Hambino]

I may have missed it, but in all the posts in the "don't fire Rocco" camp, I don't think I've seen a single defense based on something he does well.  Seems telling to me

[TwinsChupacabra]

This site has been dominated for years by Rocco excuse makers.  It never ends.  I expect the articles defending him will continue until the end of time.  

[BD57]

A good manager challenges his players to be better.   A "player's manager" treats them like men,  expects the players to act accordingly, and holds them accountable if they don't do it.  Part of accountability is "playing time depends on performance."  

Starting this season, the offense has been putrid & pitching hasn't been good.  Getting swept by the Braves when they've had a bad start of their own ... not something that can be acceptable anywhere.

While they're "not dead yet," there ain't much life there either.

The Twins current "business model" requires the farm system to send a core of very talented kids who perform upon / soon after arrival to succeed.   Farm system's not good enough to do it.

Twins need ownership which gets a thrill out of owning a team - hate to say it, but "Operating the Twins like a business" isn't going to get it done because of the relationship between "amount spent on payroll" and "Winning."  Current ownership isn't prepared to subsidize the roster to the extent required to put the Twins on the same level as Boston / Yankees / Mets / Dodgers, etc.

I'm barely watching, which is a real disappointment, given how much I've enjoyed following the Twins in years past.   Now . . . we see a group which finds a way to lose.  

[laloesch]

7 hours ago, Mahoning said:

Joe Maddon is available. Then again, he had no success with the Angels because they had a bad team. This team has several good pitchers and some good defenders, but no consistently productive hitters. It's really hard to win without hitting stars. Imagine Cleveland without Jose Ramirez.

I’d take Maddon at this point.  At least he’d light a fire under these guys and then we’d know who needs to be traded and who needs to be kept.

[big dog]

1 hour ago, FargoFanMan said:

Baseball is different than those leagues. If they spent $700M on Juan Soto would we be looking at a different result? Maybe, but probably not. Spending money buys you aging talent. This team has talent. They just haven’t used it. They just don’t have the other intangibles and they don’t do the fundamentals right among many other things. Buxton and Correa can’t carry a baseball team when so many other things are going wrong. Not that they’re helping but it’s apples and oranges as far as “spending money” goes.

Did you look at that list of relievers? I’m not asking for $700 million. What about another $10 million? Or does money just not matter?

[AceWrigley]

Maybe it's time for C4 to break out the trash can.

[HerbieFan]

Maybe Thad Levine had the right idea......

[1985Fan]

Rocco does have an impact. Can you defend his constant pinch hitting LH hitters in the 5th inning last year? Other managers don’t PH starters in the 5th inning for good reason. Notice how he hasn’t been doing that this year. But he did it for a year, leaving bench players in key AB’s later in games while starters sat watching. 

Then there is pulling SP early, burning out the BP, etc. I saw Rocco pulling SP early in the first game of a series several times last season. Stresses the BP for the next two games and has cumulative effect for the season. He constantly pulls the infield in to try to cut down runners early in the game. It rarely works and instead, it usually leads to a bigger inning than trying for a DP. 

A good manager would try to jump start a dormant offense by calling a hit & run, sac bunt a runner to third with no outs, steal more bases, etc. I didn’t see that from Rocco last year during the collapse or this year during current slump. He follows the script regardless of the situation. Terrible in game manager. 
He is not responsible for poor player performance, but part of his job is to maximize the talent on the roster. Especially with young players finding their way in the league. Instead the young guys don’t seem to improve, they go backwards. Julien, Lee, Lewis, Wallner, and Larnach. 
As far as the Pohlads being cheap, the Twins have one of the highest payrolls in the AL Central, if not the highest. Cleveland, Detroit, and KC outperform Twins roster. This year they be passed by CWS. Being outperformed by the entire AL Central reflects badly on manager and FO. 
 

[JD-TWINS]

10 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

This. Idk if it will make a difference at all, but when the Mariners fired Scott Servais the team went 21 -13 the rest of the way and although they still missed out on a playoff spot. They played competitive baseball for the rest of the year. Something more than the Twins have seen in 3 of the last 4 years.

They were 23 games over .500 midApril to midAugust last year……….Correa - Buxton - Lewis in & out and still winning……. Wallner & Julien in Minors for much of it……..same Manager & better pitching this year…….player gotta hit the ball. Aid people thinking a new voice helps a guy hit or lay off a slider then I guess they should move on from Baldelli. IMO, the players need to be responsible for horse….. offense!

[Mike Sixel]

The bullpen is not burned. Look at the projected innings. They just aren't. I'm not defending the manager, but let's at least use facts when making accusations. 

[Mark G]

7 hours ago, FargoFanMan said:

The manager may “help” in development but that’s the different coaches jobs. Hence the hitting coach, pitching coach, IF coach and OF coach and the numerous other staff. The managers job is to manage the team he is given. By the time these guys get to MLB they are sufficiently MLB developed. From there it is up to them and the coaches to further develop the players. Not the manager. It’s not his primary job to develop.

The manager's job is also to manage the coaches he is given.  And, considering the manager usually gets to select the coaches he wants working with him, he could very well be responsible for everything involving the coaching staff.  He can't ever just assign them a role and walk away assuming they will succeed; he must be reviewing everything all season long.  

[Mark G]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

The bullpen is not burned. Look at the projected innings. They just aren't. I'm not defending the manager, but let's at least use facts when making accusations. 

The bullpen is not burned...........yet.  And I have looked at the projected innings; the only thing keeping them as low as they appear right now is the fact the pen has not had to pitch the 9th innings of the games we lost on the road, which I seem to recall being 10.  Those projections would be a lot higher if we had to pitch those innings, or even tied the game and went to extras.  But my overall concern, projections or not, is the continued use of the 7th and 8th guys, along with the shuttle bus guys to and from St. Paul.  That is what is keeping the numbers down on the guys we really count on to win the games out of the pen, and how often do we really want the bottom layer of the pen out there?  I have always believed that your best starters going deeper is better than your bottom relievers pitching more often, but that is just me, I guess.  

As of right now the pen has worked just under 43% of the innings pitched this season.  Again, that is only because of the games we never saw the 9th inning, or it would be just over 45%.  The pen may not be burned yet, but last year should have taught us that continued usage at that pace did burn the pen out and may very well do it again unless those percentages change as the season goes along.  And that is solely on the manager.  

[Fezig]

Well, Rocco made it through "firing day". The Pohlad's really just don't care.

[stringer bell]

Count me in as saying that Rocco has a flawed product to work with, first and foremost. I put most of the failures of '22, '24 and so far in '25 on the players themselves and secondly on the front office. 

That said, Baldelli probably deserves some of the blame. I don't know if he reaches enough of the roster with his big picture analytics approach. The Twins have walked through too many games and made too many fundamental mistakes and Rocco Baldelli is not the taskmaster to demand and receive better performance.

[Russ]

An interim manager will continue the same.  Change is needed everywhere, Falvey on down. 

Tired of watching platoon heavy roster/lineups.   Poor baserunning, etc.

Fans in the stands and public opinion and poor ownership/management tells the story.

 

 

[rv78]

Would Rocco be a good manager if he was with the Yankees or Dodgers? If he had all of their talent at his disposal? Or would they too be lacking in fundalmentals? My guess is yes. Being a good manager is about getting the most and best from your players regardless of the level of talent you have to work with. Sure he won big with the bomba squad his first season. The players were only 1 year removed from Molitor. Maybe there was enough influence from him yet that season to play the right way. We all know how they play now with Rocco being the Manager. 2020 was an anomoly so we can throw that season aside. It didn't last long enough to see how the team would have played the entire year. That leaves the 2023 season as probably the only season that was successful solely under his leadership. I don't know about you but 1 good year out of the last 6 doesn't cut it for me and it shouldn't for the Owners or the FO.

Many here on this site including the author of this article, defend Rocco with about the only thing they can come up with and that is, he doesn't have a bunch of stud players that the Pohlads have spent a gazzillion dollars on. Yeah, I get it, it's easier to win with the more talent you have. So, they are suppose to make his job EASIER? Doesn't winning with less talent make you the better Manager? Were the 1987 and 1991 Twins teams the highest paid teams in the league at that time? Were they loaded with superstuds up and down the lineup? Did they win 100 plus games those 2 seasons like the Twins did in 2019? No,.. they won because TK got the most from his players, They played the right way. Was Coach K a great Coach for Duke because he was a good coach or because he had a handfull of All-Americans on the floor every night? If Dave Roberts doesn't win multiple WS Championships for the Dodgers, with all of the money they have spent, do you think he'll be fired or get to slide by with no consequenses? I don't think anyone here or even the Pohlads or Falvey expect Rocco to win World Series after World Series, but they should expect him to have the players playing the right way fundamentally. To play up to their ability. Currently and for too long now under Rocco's leadership, this team has been allowed to be less than mediocre when the expectation is so much more. 

[beckmt]

17 hours ago, DJL44 said:

I think a new owner might fire Falvey just because he wouldn't fire Rocco.

I think this is more of the Pohlad's call, they may not want to absorb the extra salary for paying 2 managers.  If his contract is up as stated at the end of the year, this might be more of a month or two from now thing.  Only difference is you might want to try and energize the fan base

[Rufus]

Falvey has developed what appears to be a growing strong pitching pipeline, firing him would be a mistake.  Find someone to focus on developing  non pitchers, focus on  fundamentals, hitting etc.  from the rookie leagues on up.  Hire a manager that not only plays computer baseball but remembers and understands the old game too.  This seems to me is the organizations big weakness

[LambchoP]

Rocco, and by extension, the rest of the team, just come off as going through the motions with absolutely no will to fight. Even after this horrid start there seems to be absolutely no urgency. I agree Rocco is not to blame for ALL the teams problems, but keeping him is definitely not helping. Besides, someone needs to be accountable for last year's collapse and this years embarrassing start.

[TheLeviathan]

12 hours ago, The Great Hambino said:

I may have missed it, but in all the posts in the "don't fire Rocco" camp, I don't think I've seen a single defense based on something he does well.  Seems telling to me

In fairness, I think the majority of a manager's impact is outside public purview.   Good or bad.   Rocco's players talk about him in ways that would indicate he's good at that unseen element.

[Otaknam]

I have been often critical of how Rocco handles his starters. He embraces analytics instead of showing confidence in his players. There are too many examples where Rocco removed a starter on low pitch counts  because analytics. Sonny Gray objected to being handled like that, getting removed after five innings and a fairly low pitch count. So he left for greener pastures and more money. Then there was removing Ryan after two innings in the playoffs in 2023, a game they lost. There are other examples. This burns out the bullpen and results in a constant stream of relievers from St. Paul. 

[The Great Hambino]

19 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

In fairness, I think the majority of a manager's impact is outside public purview.   Good or bad.   Rocco's players talk about him in ways that would indicate he's good at that unseen element.

Are any of those quotes from this season?

I agree in principle.  And in the past I've thought that's where Rocco was at his best - keeping things together behind the scenes.  But this run of underperformance that started last year and has continued into this year makes me wonder if a) that's still true or b) if it is still true, why it is no longer translating to on-field results.

In an era of constant player movement, 15 players still remain in the organization from the initial 2023 ALDS roster, and that doesn't include Buxton.  It's not like there's been some mass talent exodus.  In fact, some of the top performers this year weren't in that group - four of their top 5 in bWAR this year weren't on that team, the fifth being Buxton.  

To be fair, we can't know exactly the effect he's having in the clubhouse without being in there.  But the context clues don't support his continued effectiveness in this area.  And it's not like he has some elite tactical mind to fall back on.  So we're left with ... what, exactly?

[Jeff K]

Launch Baldelli.  It's obviously true that there are deeper issues with the organization, but firing Baldelli would be a start.