Eric Blonigen Twins Daily Contributor Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 The Twins are facing a catching dilemma. Christian Vasquez is under contract for one more season, but he’s expensive, and Ryan Jeffers has been inconsistent from year to year—and even month to month. Neither of them is a complete player, and the Twins would benefit from an upgrade. Can Derek Falvey make a trade this offseason to solve this problem? Image courtesy of © BRYAN TERRY/THE OKLAHOMAN / USA TODAY NETWORK Over the next three weeks, baseball's front offices will be abuzz with activity. Options will be picked up or declined, players on the 60-day IL will need to be reactivated, and young players must be added to teams’ 40-man rosters to protect them from the Rule 5 Draft. Plus, teams will need to make decisions on whether to tender contracts to players who are arbitration-eligible. This leads to many teams experiencing a roster crunch. It’s always an exciting time of year, because it gives us a glimpse into teams’ strategies and their views on their players. Often, blocked prospects are put on the trade market to maximize rosters and even out gaps. Enter the Dodgers and Dalton Rushing. The Dodgers’ top prospect, Rushing is a consensus top-100 player, ranked as high as 27th nationally by Baseball Prospectus. The Dodgers drafted him 40th overall in the 2022 MLB Draft out of Louisville, and since then, he’s been hitting: walking more than average, striking out less than average, and showing legit power. And, he’s done it at the toughest, most offense-starved position. So why would the Dodgers even consider trading their top prospect? Well, two reasons, really. Their names are Will Smith and Diego Cartaya. Smith is one of the best catchers in baseball, under control for nine more seasons after signing a long-term deal with the team. If he can develop his hit tool just a bit more, Cartaya could also be a potential future franchise catcher. MLB.com talks about Cartaya’s “plus arm strength, in-game planning, leadership skills, and overall makeup. He finished 2024 with Triple-A Oklahoma City, and figures to be ready in 2025. So, in all likelihood, the catching tandem of Smith and Cartaya is one of the best in baseball over the next half-decade. And, in case you were wondering, they also have rookie catcher Hunter Feduccia on their 40-man, and he has also hit above average since being drafted in 2018. This August, the Dodgers instructed their Triple-A club to get Rushing reps in the outfield to try to find a place for him, because it won’t be at catcher. However, a catcher that hits is more valuable than a left fielder who hits equally well, and is also much harder to find. It’s also not clear the Dodgers really need another outfielder, unless they feel like they can significantly upgrade. Their second-best prospect, Josue De Paula, is ready for the high minors, and is more of a prototypical outfielder than Rushing. They also have Mookie Betts locked into right field; rookie Andy Pages, who can play all three outfield spots; and Tommy Edman, who seems best utilized in the grass. Because of these factors, the Dodgers might be incentivized to explore a trade while Rushing’s value is high. They don’t really have any clear-cut needs, with one of the best rotations in baseball, and several good-to-great position players in Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman, Max Muncy, and (of course) Shohei Ohtani. Without clear holes, they may prefer additional good hitters with some flexibility. Or, they may want to add to an already strong farm system. Conveniently, the Twins have a number of solid-or-better hitters who are not better fits at catcher. Perhaps the two teams can line up in a mutually beneficial trade. What could that look like? Using Baseball Trade Values (it’s certainly not a perfect tool, but can be instructive to determine approximate value), Rushing is worth around $31 million in surplus value. What options do the Twins have to provide equivalent value without hamstringing the team? Luke Keaschall is largely ready for the majors, can play several positions, and is worth $23 million in surplus value. Keaschall has a profile similar to those of Chris Taylor and Enrique Hernández, whose age and contract statuses are nudging them toward the exit from a roster to whom they've been crucial over the years. Could he and someone like Andrew Morris or CJ Culpepper, with a lottery ticket thrown in from the Twins, get the job done? Or, would the Dodgers prefer a major leaguer come their way? If so, maybe a move centered on Rushing for Trevor Larnach, Jhoan Durán, or Griffin Jax would be more to their liking. Either of these options would bolster the Twins without removing any true core players, and make it easier to get out from under Vázquez’s contract. The Twins have a wealth of talent in their system, and using some of it in a challenge trade like this could be a win-win for both teams. Dalton Rushing could become the Twins’ franchise catcher, in a system devoid of high-end catching talent, and the Dodgers could add additional, more usable depth to their system. What are your thoughts? Would you be thrilled to see a trade for Rushing? Do you believe one of the proposed packages would be fair? Share your comments below! View full article
dxpavelka Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 Like the idea. However, Keashall being a guy like Taylor and Hernandez, seems like the type of guy a successful big league team would like to have around for the next three quarters of a decade. Especially considering the success the Dodgers have had with guys like---Taylor and Hernandez. Maybe Duran or Jax. The Dodgers haven't won a World Series with a key bullpen piece from us in, like, days. Fred, Mike Frasier Law, Hrbeks Divot and 4 others 3 4
Blyleven2011 Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 It's a win win proposition , you get a quality catcher and you win , catchers are the most important position , they are the leader on the field usually , our FO and Baldelli has taken that leadership out of the catchers position and they are the leaders on the field ( they need to deviate from their plan )... I like Vazquez's defense but to upgrade with a defensive savvy catcher that can hit would go along way to helping the team win , im tired of seeing passed balls that are called wild pitches ... Who to trade , anyone that doesn't have a future with the twins ... tarheeltwinsfan, Patzky and Doctor Gast 3
Old Crow Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 Trade one or both of our two best RPs for a guy who will only be allowed to play every other day? I dont think so. DJL44, Mia Bednar and joefish 2 1
Trov Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 I do not hate the idea, except for from what I read on Rushing is that he needs work at catcher still a bit and not going to be a great defender there. The move to OF may not just be because they are stacked at catcher but because he may need to move off catcher to be legit MLB guy. His bat clearly seems to be there, but Twins want reliable defenders at catcher generally. Punto4President and Eris 2
nicksaviking Community Moderator Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 The Dodgers don't tend to be a prospect-for-prospect kind of team. I'm thinking they'll want MLB talent, and I'm not giving them Jax. But really, top catching prospects don't tend to work out too often. I think the odds that Jeffers rebounds is higher than the odds that a AAA catcher turns into a star player. Mia Bednar, Cory Engelhardt, joefish and 1 other 4
Russ Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 Why aren't the Twins drafting or finding catching prospects. When we hear of the Twins catcher prospects they are mostly no hit, not good defense or hitter first, not good defense. Another example of player development and scouting lacking in the organization Old Crow, Doctor Gast and Mike Sixel 1 1 1
TopGunn#22 Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 He's never going to be a Gold Glove catcher, but the look they gave him in the OF wasn't because he was horrible defensively, it's that for the 2024 season they were set with Will Smith and Austin Barnes and the kid can flat out HIT. Diego Cartaya has always been the heir apparent at catcher for the Dodgers. Within 2 years, Cartaya will be the primary catcher with Will Smith moving to 1B when Freddy Freeman retires (Smith will still probably catch one game per week in this scenario). I've mentioned the Twins going after Rushing in several trade scenarios already this off season and I think he should be a top trade priority that could set dominos falling in a positive way for the Twins roster. If I could get him for Keaschall I would do it. Assuming that this could very well be the final year of the "Rocco Reign" as manager, acquiring Rushing would be to play him 75% of the time in 2026 and beyond.. Sure, Rocco would platoon him with Jeffers, but Rushing is a LH hitting catcher. He'd play more than Jeffers, even with Rocco. A full time catcher with a plus bat ultimately is more valuable than a full time utilityman. Considering the Twins have a rather bleak outlook at the catcher position in their farm system, acquiring someone like Rushing would be a huge plus. The Dodgers also need a closer and I expect they will go get one. However, if the Twins want to compete next year I'm giving up Keaschall, not Duran or Jax. Maybe I dangle an arm like Alcala to seal the deal, but he'd just be another arm in the Dodger pen, not the closer. This move frees the Twins up to jettison Vasquez and I maintain the Marlins are still interested in having him handle their young pitching staff. Vasquez for Jesus Luzardo who is only projected to earn $6 million in 2025 and is arbitration eligible thru 2026 at 27 years old old is a trade that could happen. Luzardo has to fully recover from some nagging injuries, but he will. A Twins team with Luzardo in the rotation, Rushing & Jeffers at catcher and Duran & Jax still holding down the back end of the bullpen has exciting possibilities. There would/should be some other moves made as well. But those two moves secure the catching position for the short and long term and makes for a rather formidable rotation for the Twins. Blyleven2011, Doctor Gast and Hrbeks Divot 3
Brandon27 Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 Twins also need long term at first it is one of the weak positions in the organization
tony&rodney Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 The idea of attempting to add a catcher via trade seems quite important to me. Who and for whom are the major obstacles. Looking around baseball it is difficult to imagine how the Twins could pull off a transaction without losing players that are currently valued and even seen as potential starters for 2025. So the ideas need to get thrown out and chewed on a bit. Dalton Rushing is a good prospect but his work behind the plate falls beneath the performance of two other potential targets: Jeferson Quero (MIL) and Kyle Teel (BOS). Like Dalton, either of those two would cost a small fortune in prospects and similar to the Dodgers both the Brewers and Red Sox would require players who would be significant on their team in 2025. Perhaps none of these players are available at any cost as well. Just thinking about what these teams might value I will throw out a couple of guesses, both of which could burn either team or be a big boost too. 1. Brooks Lee for Jeferson Quero. Perhaps the Twins add Justin Topa. 2. One of our starting pitchers for Kyle Teel. This one is even a little painful to type. The Twins need to improve their team speed, athleticism, and ability to catch the ball. The offseason is here, trades have begun, and it is time for all of our crazy proposals. Punto4President, Callup22 and SF Twins Fan 3
Twins GFP Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 Generally speaking, you always want to attempt to upgrade at positions. That being said, the Twins do not currently have a "catching dilemma". They have a solid rotation that somehow stays healthy. They have a 1B dilemma. They have a 2B dilemma. They have a "staying healthy" dilemma. Sure, if the right deal falls into place, it is worth a look. But at the moment, this team has bigger fish to fry. laloesch, Old Crow and MN Brian 3
Linus Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 33 minutes ago, TopGunn#22 said: He's never going to be a Gold Glove catcher, but the look they gave him in the OF wasn't because he was horrible defensively, it's that for the 2024 season they were set with Will Smith and Austin Barnes and the kid can flat out HIT. Diego Cartaya has always been the heir apparent at catcher for the Dodgers. Within 2 years, Cartaya will be the primary catcher with Will Smith moving to 1B when Freddy Freeman retires (Smith will still probably catch one game per week in this scenario). I've mentioned the Twins going after Rushing in several trade scenarios already this off season and I think he should be a top trade priority that could set dominos falling in a positive way for the Twins roster. If I could get him for Keaschall I would do it. Assuming that this could very well be the final year of the "Rocco Reign" as manager, acquiring Rushing would be to play him 75% of the time in 2026 and beyond.. Sure, Rocco would platoon him with Jeffers, but Rushing is a LH hitting catcher. He'd play more than Jeffers, even with Rocco. A full time catcher with a plus bat ultimately is more valuable than a full time utilityman. Considering the Twins have a rather bleak outlook at the catcher position in their farm system, acquiring someone like Rushing would be a huge plus. The Dodgers also need a closer and I expect they will go get one. However, if the Twins want to compete next year I'm giving up Keaschall, not Duran or Jax. Maybe I dangle an arm like Alcala to seal the deal, but he'd just be another arm in the Dodger pen, not the closer. This move frees the Twins up to jettison Vasquez and I maintain the Marlins are still interested in having him handle their young pitching staff. Vasquez for Jesus Luzardo who is only projected to earn $6 million in 2025 and is arbitration eligible thru 2026 at 27 years old old is a trade that could happen. Luzardo has to fully recover from some nagging injuries, but he will. A Twins team with Luzardo in the rotation, Rushing & Jeffers at catcher and Duran & Jax still holding down the back end of the bullpen has exciting possibilities. There would/should be some other moves made as well. But those two moves secure the catching position for the short and long term and makes for a rather formidable rotation for the Twins. Respectfully, I don’t see any chance of the Marlins trading Luzardo for Vasquez. Mike Sixel, DocBauer and jmlease1 3
tony&rodney Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 7 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said: Generally speaking, you always want to attempt to upgrade at positions. That being said, the Twins do not currently have a "catching dilemma". They have a solid rotation that somehow stays healthy. They have a 1B dilemma. They have a 2B dilemma. They have a "staying healthy" dilemma. Sure, if the right deal falls into place, it is worth a look. But at the moment, this team has bigger fish to fry. Your comment highlights that the Twins do need to consider some changes. We are all doubting any significant increase in the budget which means that free agency will not be the cure. Royce Lewis can play 1B. 2B is shaky with Austin Martin, Willi Castro (if he isn't traded), and Julien. Maybe Payton Eeles is actually an improvement at 2B. The Twins need to identify what they want their team to look like next season, which means change. Patzky, DocBauer, Twins GFP and 3 others 6
Rod Carews Birthday Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 If you could make a trade for a starting level catcher for Luke Keashall as the centerpiece, I would grab that in a second. I think Keashall could become a fine player, but locking up the catcher situation — one we are generally not happy with — for the next few years would be amazing. I don’t know if the right answer is Rushing, Tell, Quero, or somebody else, but this would be well worth it. I think that every prospect below ERod, Jenkins, and Raya should definitely be on the table for trades, and I think you listen even on them (although I would need to be blown away to bite on one). On the major league side, Buxton and Correa aren’t going anywhere, but otherwise, I think you also listen. I would always be hesitant to trade starting pitching (like Ryan/Ober), but the right deal might change my mind. The Twins lineup is good enough that improving it will involve subtracting somebody that we may actually like. Mike Sixel, saviking, Fred and 3 others 6
Patzky Old-Timey Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 1 hour ago, Old Crow said: Trade one or both of our two best RPs for a guy who will only be allowed to play every other day? I dont think so. For it to help, it has to hurt. Blyleven2011 and Punto4President 2
Riverbrian Old-Timey Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 Rushing is going to be super expensive to acquire. Painfully super expensive. Catcher's are consistent overpays to acquire. To pay what the Dodgers would require is what Ashbury calls a failure tax or stupidity tax. It's the tax you have to pay when you fail to develop your own. With catchers being consistent overpays. The Twins need to take advantage of the market instead of being victims of the market. Just take a look what the Dodgers have done in catcher development over the years. There current catching tandem Smith and Barnes were both home grown. They currently have Rushing and Cartaya close to major league ready and three or 4 in the lower minors that look promising. Two starting current starting catchers came from the Dodgers system. Keibert Ruiz with the Nationals who the Dodgers used to acquire Turner and Scherzer and Connor Wong with the Red Sox who was part of the Mookie Betts trade. Jair Camargo who is currently our #3 was also part of the Betts deal indirectly. In a similar time frame the Twins have developed 3 catchers with some value. Jeffers of course. Along with Garver and Rortvedt who were both traded so the Twins could shed the Donaldson contract which is no easy accomplishment. Since those 3... The Twins development has gone dry. Dry at a position where the market prices are high and if you can't cash in on the market prices... you must pay the market prices. Catching has been a organization failure. P Meyer, DocBauer, Fred and 2 others 5
LambchoP Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 I'm thinking if the Twins can dump Vasquezs' entire salary by attaching a prospect to him, and then sign a young, cheap defensive minded catcher, they could use the money saved to start looking for a first baseman. Find a way to dump Paddack as well and all of a sudden they have 17 million to put towards a solid hitter. Someone like Walker, Goldschmidt or Hoskins could really help this lineup.
gmwannabe Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 I think the Dodgers would take Castro straight up for Rushing and I would do it. They will need to replace Kike who is older and a free agent and the Twins can do without Castro until Keuchel gets a few months at AAA. Mia Bednar and Blyleven2011 2
1985Fan Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 If the FO is set on dumping Vasquez to clear salary, I advise they trade him for MiLB low level prospects. If Camargo is not ready to share catching duties with Jeffers, then sign a cheap, defense first, veteran catcher. A Vasquez only trade may require that Twins include prospects. Ouch! I think they could keep Vasquez and if his bat picks up a bit, he’s a deadline trade candidate. Maybe Jeffers, if his bat rebounds, can share time at 1B with Severino? With salary limitations, the FO may have to get creative with internal resources to fill in holes on the roster. Larnach should also be considered for 1B and Miranda should be a platoon option if he’s not traded. I like the idea of making trades. I think dumping Vasquez now will hurt more than help.
Otaknam Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 Vasquez’ ludicrous contract is an anchor to any trades, unless the Twins pick up part of the contract. So I think they are stuck with him for another season. A more likely scenario is they trade Jeffers for value to save money. I do like the idea of upgrading catcher and don’t know much about either Dodger prospect. But the FO has mixed success on trades, especially for starters.
bean5302 Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 Jeffers is an average defensive catcher with a slightly above average bat. His wOBA was almost 40pts higher than expected last year, and even Jeffers knew it was smoke and mirrors so he adapted his plate approach to try and get some sustainability. Once you throw out the junk stat "catcher framing," Jeffers is a 2 WAR catcher on an average year, but Baldelli's love of resting players will always limit Jeffers' plate appearances. That means the Twins need 2 starting caliber catchers. Rushing bats left handed so the platoon obsessed front office will love that. As for what the Dodgers want? Starting pitching. Calling their rotation "one of the best in baseball" is far from accurate. The Dodgers are returning Glasnow (who was on the IL with an elbow injury) and Yamamoto, but after that, there's nothing reliable due to a host of "forearm" injuries and TJs. They're going to want pitching. What kind of pitching? Starts with a Pablo and ends with a Lopez is my guess. They'd probably also take Joe Ryan or Bailey Ober.
Cory Engelhardt Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 2 hours ago, nicksaviking said: The Dodgers don't tend to be a prospect-for-prospect kind of team. I'm thinking they'll want MLB talent, and I'm not giving them Jax. But really, top catching prospects don't tend to work out too often. I think the odds that Jeffers rebounds is higher than the odds that a AAA catcher turns into a star player. ONLY came here to add that the Dodgers did make a prospect for prospect trade this past offseason, when they sent prospect Michael Busch and reliever Yency Almonte to the Cubs for prospects Jackson Ferris (he looked REALLY good this year) and Zyhir Hope. I wouldn't trade Jax for this kind of deal either. Agreed. nicksaviking 1
AKTwinsFan Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 Draft some guys. Pitchers and a catcher or two. I don't like the idea of trades for any of the players mentioned. Maybe 2-3 other lesser prospects.
Riverbrian Old-Timey Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 49 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said: ONLY came here to add that the Dodgers did make a prospect for prospect trade this past offseason, when they sent prospect Michael Busch and reliever Yency Almonte to the Cubs for prospects Jackson Ferris (he looked REALLY good this year) and Zyhir Hope. I wouldn't trade Jax for this kind of deal either. Agreed. Yep... Rookie Michael Busch from Inver Grove Heights who hit 21 dingers for the Cubs in his first year. Moved to create roster space after acquiring Teoscar. Dodgers said that he didn't belong in AAA but had no room for him on the major league roster so they picked up a couple of real young players age 19 and 18 who have no roster requirements. Must be nice to have a farm system overflowing like that and have that farm system while consistently drafting late in every round. Cory Engelhardt and DocBauer 2
Parfigliano Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 AT this point anyone that gets traded to the LAD 26-man roster is the one with the winning lottery ticket.
Riverbrian Old-Timey Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 1 hour ago, gmwannabe said: I think the Dodgers would take Castro straight up for Rushing and I would do it. I would too!!! The Dodgers won't... They'd laugh. SF Twins Fan, jmlease1, Mike Sixel and 2 others 5
laloesch Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 2 hours ago, Linus said: Respectfully, I don’t see any chance of the Marlins trading Luzardo for Vasquez. Yeah there's no chance that happens. jmlease1 1
RpR Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 3 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said: Generally speaking, you always want to attempt to upgrade at positions. That being said, the Twins do not currently have a "catching dilemma". They have a solid rotation that somehow stays healthy. They have a 1B dilemma. They have a 2B dilemma. They have a "staying healthy" dilemma. Sure, if the right deal falls into place, it is worth a look. But at the moment, this team has bigger fish to fry. They have an Infield dilema, except, maybe, Short Stop.
tony&rodney Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 3 hours ago, Linus said: Respectfully, I don’t see any chance of the Marlins trading Luzardo for Vasquez. Agree. The Marlins might trade Luzardo for Jeffers though and if the Twins add some young guys to Jeffers (C. J. Culpepper, Billy Amick, Adrian Bohorquez, ?), the Marlins might send Sandy Alcantara instead of Luzardo. Of course, the Twins would then need a catcher ....
jmlease1 Verified Member Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 It's an interesting proposal, and as much as I like Keaschall he makes a certain amount of sense to be the centerpiece of a deal like this because that's an area of strength for the Twins, so moving him doesn't blow a hole in another area (like dealing our top relievers would), and we also know that other teams were calling on him this year at the deadline, so it's not just us thinking he's a prize. Rushing would be a heck of a fit with Jeffers, so it makes sense to look at him too. we've also heard that there's some agreement around the league that vazquez is still seen as being valuable and it wouldn't have to be something where we have to send a significant prospect or eat a big chunk of his salary to move him...which has a lot of value with our self-imposed payroll limitations. adding Rushing while moving Vazquez makes it a lot easier to add the kind of LH reliever this team needs while strengthening the catcher position for years to come. Twins would have to add something to Keaschall to get it done, but it's an intriguing idea and I appreciate the creativity. It's also not living in fantasy land: there's real reason to believe that the Dodgers could be interested in a deal like this. Hard to make it happen, but I like the fact that this idea is thinking carefully about both sides of the trade equation. Rod Carews Birthday and DocBauer 2
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