Rocco Baldelli Knowingly Put His Head On the Chopping Block to Wake Up His Team. What If It Doesn't Work?

[Matthew Trueblood]

The Twins' long-time manager didn't take lightly the decision to tear into his team and make his displeasure with their effort public. Now, we all understand each other. The stakes are high, and so are the seas.

Image courtesy of © Nathan Ray Seebeck-Imagn Images

 

By no means did Rocco Baldelli do anything wrong when he excoriated his struggling club after a weekend sweep in Kansas City. In fact, he timed his philippic perfectly. You don't want that negative energy in your home clubhouse. You don't even want your team stewing in it for the remainder of a series. You do it at the end of a road trip, to make sure everyone understands that what just happened isn't acceptable, but also that it's over. You give them every chance to come to the park the next day and get things right.

Good managers don't push that big red button until they're left with no real choice, though. It's not about being performative or saying anything one doesn't mean; it's about managing carefully how much you let yourself emote, and how outwardly, and then choosing only the moment when urgency and a dwindling set of alternatives make it appropriate to release more of that withheld emotion.

Thus, when Baldelli elected to cut loose on his team Sunday afternoon, he was sending a message: I'm running out of ways to convey the seriousness of this to you. I know you're tired. I know this is hard. You have to do better, anyway. You're not meeting the standard.

That's not an unfair set of things to say, even to a team fighting its annual injury apocalypse right now. It's the kind of sharp-edged, dangerous thing that ought to ensure maximal concentration, maximal effort, and maximal preparation from everyone involved the rest of the way. It was a reasonable time to take those relatively drastic measures. Here's the problem: that doesn't guarantee that it will work.

In fact, in the first game of the Twins' should-be get-right series at home against the Angels Monday night, they looked as bad as ever--as flat, as tired, as weak. That's not an indictment of Baldelli; you don't evaluate a managerial tirade on its instantaneous aftereffects, any more than you evaluate a rookie based on their debut. However, it was a stern reminder that the team has shown a bit of habitual give-up this year, not necessarily from a lack of character or toughness or culture or even talent, but perhaps as an unfortunate characteristic.

The Angels jumped out to a 4-0 lead Monday night. The Twins have only come back from four runs down twice all season, and not since June. They're a strong offense, but they don't seem to have it in them to rush back when they fall behind early. Baldelli's outburst was meant to give them the kind of fearless fire required for that kind of fight, but they still didn't show it Monday night.

When a skipper does demand more of a team this way, everything comes under a microscope. Again, unless you accidentally hired some old-fashioned hothead loser, this is a move reserved for moments of great need. When it happens, the manager is acknowledging that they're in a corner. If the team doesn't respond, the implication is serious: the boss has lost the ability to direct and motivate his people adequately.

Right now, the Twins are only three games up on the Red Sox, Tigers, and Mariners. When your three-game lead is over three different teams, it's not really a three-game lead. One of those teams getting hot would be enough to cause the Twins a lot of trouble, unless they can pull out of this tailspin in short order. If they blow the lead and miss the playoffs, Baldelli has put himself in position to be fired. As far as we know, he's under contract only through next season, and when a skipper is a year from free agency, teams usually move either to extend them or to dismiss them. Baldelli and the team might have worked out an extension already; we wouldn't know. But he went forward with this gambit knowing the perception if it failed would be that he is incapable of drawing more out of his team down the stretch.

For some, this fade--a second one in three years, whether it ends as badly as 2022 did or not--is confirmation that Baldelli is not a good manager. I disagree, vehemently. However, this tendency to struggle late in seasons--to go along with the grind and let it wear them to a nub, which we saw even to some extent in 2019 and 2020--does seem to be a pattern for his teams. That might be because, given the shape of the team they're trying to build, the organization has chosen the wrong model for the manager role.

Baldelli is not hands-off; no MLB manager is. He is, however, very much a middle manager, delegating to coaches with whom he vests most positional specialist powers and implementing front-office plans based on his own conversations with Derek Falvey and Thad Levine. Though a former player, he's more like an executive than an instructor. He might not be as well-suited to the task of keeping together a young team with a lot of players still in need of pointers, still looking for experience and advice about handling the big leagues, as managers who take a more detail-oriented approach to the job.

Right now, the main problem for the Twins is the players. They're exhausted, and the best of them are missing from the lineup altogether. Baldelli did a crucial part of his job, by both sending them a wakeup call and putting himself in the harsh spotlight instead of them. In the version of his job the team has carved out for him, though, he can't do much more to push his team across the finish line, and if they don't get there, this could be the final season in the Twin Cities for one or more key member of Twins leadership.

 

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[LambchoP]

If we miss the playoffs I'd say he's definitely in the hot seat. We complain about Rocco a lot on here, but he can only do so much with what he's got...

[Mark G]

I still go back to Molitor's last 2 years here; how the FO was selling anyone of any value out from under him (especially his last year) and somehow he kept the team moving forward.  He got the 2nd wild card spot in 2017 and finished 2018 with a 6 gave winning streak with less talent than the recent teams.  That wasn't good enough, because this FO wanted just what you described; a middle manager.  Rocco struggles as a game manager exactly for that reason.  He is married to the overall season strategy and won't (or maybe can't, as in he is not allowed to) adjust as the situations call for.  You are right, Matthew, he is a very good middle manager.  As such, he will be here as long as the current FO is.  I suspect it is their back sides on the line even more than Rocco's, although more than one FO has thrown the manager under the bus to save their own hide, but this FO believes too much in their system to hire anyone different.  And as Rocco is a good middle manager, and a good foot soldier, he will very likely stay as long as Falvine does.  Personally, I have never wanted a Rocco; not Rocco individually, just that type of manager.  And I never will.  But I have surrendered and laid down my verbal arms, so to speak, because I am in too much of a minority.  

What you see is what you get, folks.  These 3 aren't going to change, because they don't want to and don't think they have to.  Hope for the best, get used to not getting it, and just try to enjoy the game as much as you can.  I hope I am off base, and, as always, I can be educated.  😉

[Karbo]

I'm really bored hearing about these players being tired. They get paid more than 80% of the working population, They work (play) 6-7 months per year, they have the rest of the year to work on conditioning and training. And they're tired? What about the rest of the league? Aren't they playing just as long? I haven't heard them complaining. Why are the Twins so much more tired than they are? "Tired" just sounds like an excuse to me!

[hitterscount]

Curious, you disagree vehemently that he is not a bad manager…. what makes him a good manager…. and they really aren’t that young, that excuse doesn’t cut it for me.

[tony&rodney]

21 minutes ago, Mark G said:

I still go back to Molitor's last 2 years here; how the FO was selling anyone of any value out from under him (especially his last year) and somehow he kept the team moving forward.  He got the 2nd wild card spot in 2017 and finished 2018 with a 6 gave winning streak with less talent than the recent teams.  That wasn't good enough, because this FO wanted just what you described; a middle manager.  Rocco struggles as a game manager exactly for that reason.  He is married to the overall season strategy and won't (or maybe can't, as in he is not allowed to) adjust as the situations call for.  You are right, Matthew, he is a very good middle manager.  As such, he will be here as long as the current FO is.  I suspect it is their back sides on the line even more than Rocco's, although more than one FO has thrown the manager under the bus to save their own hide, but this FO believes too much in their system to hire anyone different.  And as Rocco is a good middle manager, and a good foot soldier, he will very likely stay as long as Falvine does.  Personally, I have never wanted a Rocco; not Rocco individually, just that type of manager.  And I never will.  But I have surrendered and laid down my verbal arms, so to speak, because I am in too much of a minority.  

What you see is what you get, folks.  These 3 aren't going to change, because they don't want to and don't think they have to.  Hope for the best, get used to not getting it, and just try to enjoy the game as much as you can.  I hope I am off base, and, as always, I can be educated.  😉

Recently, on a different post, I made a similar comment. How much latitude does Baldelli even have to manage the games? If Rocco is gone, so is Falvey.

[USAFChief]

29 minutes ago, Karbo said:

I'm really bored hearing about these players being tired. They get paid more than 80% of the working population, They work (play) 6-7 months per year, they have the rest of the year to work on conditioning and training. And they're tired? What about the rest of the league? Aren't they playing just as long? I haven't heard them complaining. Why are the Twins so much more tired than they are? "Tired" just sounds like an excuse to me!

Thank you.

The idea the Twins are "exhausted," as claimed in the OP, is ridiculous. 

 

As for the rest of the OP, the leader of any team almost always gets exactly the level of motivation and execution he permits.

Look in the mirror for a change, Rocco. 

 

 

[LambchoP]

21 minutes ago, Karbo said:

I'm really bored hearing about these players being tired. They get paid more than 80% of the working population, They work (play) 6-7 months per year, they have the rest of the year to work on conditioning and training. And they're tired? What about the rest of the league? Aren't they playing just as long? I haven't heard them complaining. Why are the Twins so much more tired than they are? "Tired" just sounds like an excuse to me!

Exactly. I get that it's a long season and it's a grind. But c'mon, I keep hearing about Lewis wearing down. He's only played in 60 games! If our top players can't handle a full schedule, then we should be real worried. You don't hear about Bobby Witt being too tired, after playing in every darn game. Look at Santana, the dudes 38 and he plays more than Lewis Buck and Correa. Is it our conditioning program, are our players this weak? They need to figure out the problem and find a way to keep our guys healthy and on the field as more than just part time players. I've always wondered if players contracts were dependent on games played how many less long term injuries we'd see...

[chpettit19]

4 hours ago, hitterscount said:

Curious, you disagree vehemently that he is not a bad manager…. what makes him a good manager…. and they really aren’t that young, that excuse doesn’t cut it for me.

Agreed on the "they really aren't that young" comment. Sick of that excuse and the "we need to keep Farmer cuz of his clubhouse presence" nonsense.

But good vs bad manager stuff in this day and age is difficult. It's simply a different world in much of major league baseball now. Joe Maddon is often viewed as the original "analytics" manager for his time in Tampa. He's out of the game now and is very open about a lot of that being because front offices have reached too far into clubhouses.

For many (most? all?) MLB teams the manager's job description is basically to manage the clubhouse and to execute the baseball ops departments visions/plans. Rocco seems to be good at both of those things. By all reports he's great at managing the clubhouse. Not the way everyone on here wants it to be managed, but every veteran not named Shoemaker who leaves this team has great things to say. Even Sonny Gray praised the Twins and the clubhouse atmosphere, etc. and people seem to think he hated Rocco with every fiber of his being. 

What makes Rocco a "good" manager is that he's on the same page as the FO and executes their strategies. I don't agree with many of their strategies (I've annoyed more than 1 person with my constant complaints about the platooning), but I don't see any evidence that Rocco isn't executing the plans and strategies that this FO seems to very clearly believe in.

To me, the question isn't a Rocco question, it's a FO question. I don't care if they fire Rocco today (other than it's never fun when someone loses a job they very clearly put great effort into), but I don't see how anyone thinks it's going to make a major difference. The FO isn't going to go out and hire someone who's not going to platoon, who won't give "scheduled off days," who won't alternate catchers every other day, who won't put non-elite prospect rookies on the bench and only play them when forced to, who won't pull pitchers earlier than some of us want some times, etc. etc. etc. Rocco is executing the front offices plans and strategies. If you dislike his in game management you dislike the front office's strategies. 

It's very important for managers and baseball ops departments to be on the same page. You don't want a manager who never platoons to be in charge of a team the front office built around platoons. That'd be a disaster. Firing Rocco doesn't solve anything, if your complaints are about the in game management. Because they won't hire someone who's going to do things drastically different. Because this is their vision for the team. The only thing that would change is the behind the scenes clubhouse management that we don't see and can only go on what we hear from reporters and players. And all that seems to be glowing about Rocco.

[Doctor Gast]

37 minutes ago, Mark G said:

I still go back to Molitor's last 2 years here; how the FO was selling anyone of any value out from under him (especially his last year) and somehow he kept the team moving forward.  He got the 2nd wild card spot in 2017 and finished 2018 with a 6 gave winning streak with less talent than the recent teams.  That wasn't good enough, because this FO wanted just what you described; a middle manager.  Rocco struggles as a game manager exactly for that reason.  He is married to the overall season strategy and won't (or maybe can't, as in he is not allowed to) adjust as the situations call for.  You are right, Matthew, he is a very good middle manager.  As such, he will be here as long as the current FO is.  I suspect it is their back sides on the line even more than Rocco's, although more than one FO has thrown the manager under the bus to save their own hide, but this FO believes too much in their system to hire anyone different.  And as Rocco is a good middle manager, and a good foot soldier, he will very likely stay as long as Falvine does.  Personally, I have never wanted a Rocco; not Rocco individually, just that type of manager.  And I never will.  But I have surrendered and laid down my verbal arms, so to speak, because I am in too much of a minority.  

What you see is what you get, folks.  These 3 aren't going to change, because they don't want to and don't think they have to.  Hope for the best, get used to not getting it, and just try to enjoy the game as much as you can.  I hope I am off base, and, as always, I can be educated.  😉

I'm with you, Mark. Well said!

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

Exactly. I get that it's a long season and it's a grind. But c'mon, I keep hearing about Lewis wearing down. He's only played in 60 games! If our top players can't handle a full schedule, then we should be real worried. You don't hear about Bobby Witt being too tired, after playing in every darn game. Look at Santana, the dudes 38 and he plays more than Lewis Buck and Correa. Is it our conditioning program, are our players this weak? They need to figure out the problem and find a way to keep our guys healthy and on the field as more than just part time players. I've always wondered if players contracts were dependent on games played how many less long term injuries we'd see...

Lewis is actually the only one I can buy into being tired. He's played so little, and had so few off-seasons where he could work on improving his stamina because of his injuries. And his swing data shows a drastic decline in swing speed over the last month. He's either hurt or out of gas. He's only played 65 games this year, but his 66 last year was the most he'd played since 2019. By a lot. 2021 he played 34 games and that was his previous high since 2019. He actually makes sense to be wearing down. The rest of the team has no excuse.

[hitterscount]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Agreed on the "they really aren't that young" comment. Sick of that excuse and the "we need to keep Farmer cuz of his clubhouse presence" nonsense.

But good vs manager stuff in this day and age is difficult. It's simply a different world in much of major league baseball now. Joe Maddon is often viewed as the original "analytics" manager for his time in Tampa. He's out of the game now and is very open about a lot of that being because front offices have reached too far into clubhouses.

For many (most? all?) MLB teams the manager's job description is basically to manage the clubhouse and to execute the baseball ops departments visions/plans. Rocco seems to be good at both of those things. By all reports he's great at managing the clubhouse. Not the way everyone on here wants it to be managed, but every veteran not named Shoemaker who leaves this team has great things to say. Even Sonny Gray praised the Twins and the clubhouse atmosphere, etc. and people seem to think he hated Rocco with every fiber of his being. 

What makes Rocco a "good" manager is that he's on the same page as the FO and executes their strategies. I don't agree with many of their strategies (I've annoyed more than 1 person with my constant complaints about the platooning), but I don't see any evidence that Rocco isn't executing the plans and strategies that this FO seems to very clearly believe in.

To me, the question isn't a Rocco question, it's a FO question. I don't care if they fire Rocco today (other than it's never fun when someone loses a job they very clearly put great effort into), but I don't see how anyone thinks it's going to make a major difference. The FO isn't going to go out and hire someone who's not going to platoon, who won't give "scheduled off days," who won't alternate catchers every other day, who won't put non-elite prospect rookies on the bench and only play them when forced to, who won't pull pitchers earlier than some of us want some times, etc. etc. etc. Rocco is executing the front offices plans and strategies. If you dislike his in game management you dislike the front office's strategies. 

It's very important for managers and baseball ops departments to be on the same page. You don't want a manager who never platoons to be in charge of a team the front office built around platoons. That'd be a disaster. Firing Rocco doesn't solve anything, if your complaints are about the in game management. Because they won't hire someone who's going to do things drastically different. Because this is their vision for the team. The only thing that would change is the behind the scenes clubhouse management that we don't see and can only go on what we hear from reporters and players. And all that seems to be glowing about Rocco.

I’ve never heard of a front office making on field or in game decisions. Do you believe that has been the case with the best managers? I do understand that they set innings for pitchers, rookies or players coming off of an injury. But they do not request that the manager pull a starter in a game where he is at 83 pitches and hasn’t given up a run, or pinch hitting in the 4th inning or using your closer in non save situations, even though he sucks outside of that role. The strategy deployed are head scratching moves made byRocco, not the front office.

[USAFChief]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Agreed on the "they really aren't that young" comment. Sick of that excuse and the "we need to keep Farmer cuz of his clubhouse presence" nonsense.

But good vs manager stuff in this day and age is difficult. It's simply a different world in much of major league baseball now. Joe Maddon is often viewed as the original "analytics" manager for his time in Tampa. He's out of the game now and is very open about a lot of that being because front offices have reached too far into clubhouses.

For many (most? all?) MLB teams the manager's job description is basically to manage the clubhouse and to execute the baseball ops departments visions/plans. Rocco seems to be good at both of those things. By all reports he's great at managing the clubhouse. Not the way everyone on here wants it to be managed, but every veteran not named Shoemaker who leaves this team has great things to say. Even Sonny Gray praised the Twins and the clubhouse atmosphere, etc. and people seem to think he hated Rocco with every fiber of his being. 

What makes Rocco a "good" manager is that he's on the same page as the FO and executes their strategies. I don't agree with many of their strategies (I've annoyed more than 1 person with my constant complaints about the platooning), but I don't see any evidence that Rocco isn't executing the plans and strategies that this FO seems to very clearly believe in.

To me, the question isn't a Rocco question, it's a FO question. I don't care if they fire Rocco today (other than it's never fun when someone loses a job they very clearly put great effort into), but I don't see how anyone thinks it's going to make a major difference. The FO isn't going to go out and hire someone who's not going to platoon, who won't give "scheduled off days," who won't alternate catchers every other day, who won't put non-elite prospect rookies on the bench and only play them when forced to, who won't pull pitchers earlier than some of us want some times, etc. etc. etc. Rocco is executing the front offices plans and strategies. If you dislike his in game management you dislike the front office's strategies. 

It's very important for managers and baseball ops departments to be on the same page. You don't want a manager who never platoons to be in charge of a team the front office built around platoons. That'd be a disaster. Firing Rocco doesn't solve anything, if your complaints are about the in game management. Because they won't hire someone who's going to do things drastically different. Because this is their vision for the team. The only thing that would change is the behind the scenes clubhouse management that we don't see and can only go on what we hear from reporters and players. And all that seems to be glowing about Rocco.

I read this a lot, and I don't buy THIS either. 

The manager writes out the lineup. Makes pitching changes. Sets or doesn't set mandatory infield practice. Batting practice. Playing time.  Pinch hitting. When to sacrifice, or not. Controlling the opponent's running game, and how. Etc etc etc.

I'm not going to blame Baldelli for failure to pick up anything helpful at the deadline. 

Likewise, absent some strong proof, I'm not going to blame Thad Levine for things that are Baldelli's responsibility. 

One would have to have a pretty low opinion of Baldelli to believe he'd even accept a job he's been told he won't be allowed to do.

 

[chpettit19]

34 minutes ago, hitterscount said:

I’ve never heard of a front office making on field or in game decisions. Do you believe that has been the case with the best managers? I do understand that they set innings for pitchers, rookies or players coming off of an injury. But they do not the manager to pull a starter in a game where he is at 83 pitches and hasn’t given up a run, or pinch hitting in the 4th inning or using your closer in non save situations, even though he sucks outside that role. The strategy deployed by most of these head scratcher moves won Rocco, not the front office.

They don't call down to the dugout and tell him to take players out, but they talk everyday and set the parameters for the decisions he makes in game. Our bosses in the real world don't call us in the middle of every project we're doing and tell us exactly what to do when, but they give us the parameters and expectations for how it should be done. Same thing. If they didn't like how he did things he'd have been fired long ago.

Are there individual moves here and there that they wouldn't have done the same or didn't like? Of course. Nobody is on the same page about 100% of things. But they gave him an extension while he managed this way. Doing all those "head scratcher moves." The idea that Rocco is making decisions independent of the front office or the way they want things done is misguided. He isn't. They talk literally everyday during the season. They are very much involved in the way games are managed. 

Do you think if they fired Rocco they'd hire some fire and brimstone manager who ignored their analytics and managed "by his gut?" Or do you think they'd hire someone who platooned, pulled pitchers after 83 pitches sometimes, didn't have a set closer all the time but instead used matchup based data to make decisions (data that comes from the FO, by the way)? 

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I read this a lot, and I don't buy THIS either. 

The manager writes out the lineup. Makes pitching changes. Sets or doesn't set mandatory infield practice. Batting practice. Playing time.  Pinch hitting. When to sacrifice, or not. Controlling the opponent's running game, and how. Etc etc etc.

I'm not going to blame Baldelli for failure to pick up anything helpful at the deadline. 

Likewise, absent some strong proof, I'm not going to blame Thad Levine for things that are Baldelli's responsibility. 

One would have to have a pretty low opinion of Baldelli to believe he'd even accept a job he's been told he won't be allowed to do.

 

Well we've had a former front office staff member on this very site confirm that Rocco and the front office talk everyday. Is that "strong proof?" The idea that Rocco is doing things independent of the front office makes no sense. They provide him information and strategy everyday. If they didn't like how he does things why did they extend him and not fire him? 

Do you think firing Rocco would lead to them hiring a manager that does things drastically different?

[silverslugger]

words, WoRdS, WORDS!  I need Performance!

[USAFChief]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Well we've had a former front office staff member on this very site confirm that Rocco and the front office talk everyday. Is that "strong proof?" The idea that Rocco is doing things independent of the front office makes no sense. They provide him information and strategy everyday. If they didn't like how he does things why did they extend him and not fire him? 

Do you think firing Rocco would lead to them hiring a manager that does things drastically different?

So then you DO have an extremely low opinion of Baldelli's integrity?

Would you accept a job you weren't allowed to do?

 

And yes, I would hope a new manager would do some things differently. 

 

[bean5302]

Pretty sensational headline... followed with a pretty sensational assertion that if a manager calls out his club and it doesn't improve the manager is likely to be fired.

Baldelli is extended through 2025, and the Pohlad family eating his contract to get rid of him seems pretty uncharacteristic. Falvey and Levine seem to be on a much hotter seat for me looking in from the outside. 

[D.C Twins]

I've said it for at least 3 years. Rocco is not a leader of men.

He belongs in the FO here or elsewhere. He appears to be intelligent and thoughtful but he is not well suited to be a manager. 

He will never manage another team when he is eventually fired from this one. That tells you all you need to know. 

 

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

So then you DO have an extremely low opinion of Baldelli's integrity?

Would you accept a job you weren't allowed to do?

 

And yes, I would hope a new manager would do some things differently. 

 

He agrees with their strategies. Not sure why that's a lack of integrity. That's the point. Rocco wasn't hired and extended and forced to manage in a way he disagrees with. He was hired BECAUSE these are the strategies he also believes in. He came from Tampa. Most of their strategies are stolen from Tampa. They wouldn't hire someone who doesn't agree with their philosophies. That's the entire point.

[Blyleven2011]

If I can't say anything nice about FO or Rocco  , I won't say anything ...

I am just not a supporter of the FO and managers way of running a baseball team ...

I could say more but it wouldn't be nice ...

[laloesch]

It doesn't really matter at this point.  The Twins are in free-fall and will get passed by either the Mariners or the Red Sox, possibly both and will not make the playoffs.  Ohhh well.  It's not like they were going to win any playoff games outside of a wild card game anyways.

[Whitey333]

I do not like Roccos managing style.  Well he really doesn't have one.  People are right he us probably just following his bosses orders at least in part.  Those of us that despise the strong use of analytics and lack of common sense when managing the team are stuck.  This is the new MLB.  It's a joke!!  But it looks like it's here to stay.  Boring baseball .

[1985Fan]

I’m really disappointed in hearing about “this team is exhausted” excuse. If they have players that can’t play 80-90 percent of the games, then why are they signing those players?!

Is Detroit or Seattle complaining of exhaustion? If you train to play 162 games, why are you complaining about exhaustion at 140 games? What the heck is this team doing during the offseason and spring training. 
I’ve followed the Twins for many years and I’ve never heard this drivel coming from this manager and FO. If you can’t get motivated to play for the playoffs, then what is the point? Seems like these guys are covering for their expected failure to reach the playoffs already. With that mentality, this team has no chance to make the playoffs. That is on Rocco.

[AKTwinsFan]

If we dont move on from Baldelli the team will never get back to the world series. We need a coach that's been there done that, and he has not. He keeps on the worst staff. Popkins only answer all season was the Rally Sausage, but since then there's not even a 10,000 rakes vest, prince fedora and vest or Sausage. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

I have been a Baldelli supporter as manager, but he clearly has to take a large share of the responsibility for this late-season collapse. I hope I'm wrong, but I've stopped watching the games on MLB TV or participating in the game threads because I'm pretty convinced that the Twins are in a death spiral that will end with them winning 82 to 84 games and finishing outside the playoffs.

The biggest reason for that is the injuries, particularly the injury to Joe Ryan and consequent need to start Festa and Matthews every fifth day, guys who are not ready to be major league starting pitchers. Still, the second biggest reason is just a lack of fundamental play and fire from the team itself. They are just playing bad baseball and that has to be laid at the feet of the manager and assistant coaches. Their job is to get the players to execute, and it just isn't happening. Their job is also to recognize when players are not contributing and frankly be bloodless and heartless in only playing guys who are executing. I've been a big fan of playing the young guys to get them experience, but the last two weeks of made me realize that playing Lewis and Lee every day is likely to doom the season. They just aren't making a contribution. Now, I'm not sure that Helman, Martin and Keirsey would be any better but we certainly need to give that a try. Miranda also needs to be playing every day because he's one of the few guys that is hitting at all. I just feel like this coaching staff has not made a good effort at trying to adjust the roster. I recognize that the options are limited with so many guys out, but you still have to recognize when things are not working and make changes.

My prediction is that the Twins will fade out of the playoffs and Rocco will be back next year with basically the same philosophy. It works if you don't have injuries, it doesn't if you do. I think the last three years have shown us that.

[Unwinder]

1 hour ago, D.C Twins said:

He will never manage another team when he is eventually fired from this one. That tells you all you need to know. 

 

This is a guess, how could something that hasn't happened yet tell me everything I need to know?

[laloesch]

7 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I have been a Baldelli supporter as manager, but he clearly has to take a large share of the responsibility for this late-season collapse. I hope I'm wrong, but I've stopped watching the games on MLB TV or participating in the game threads because I'm pretty convinced that the Twins are in a death spiral that will end with them winning 82 to 84 games and finishing outside the playoffs.

The biggest reason for that is the injuries, particularly the injury to Joe Ryan and consequent need to start Festa and Matthews every fifth day, guys who are not ready to be major league starting pitchers. Still, the second biggest reason is just a lack of fundamental play and fire from the team itself. They are just playing bad baseball and that has to be laid at the feet of the manager and assistant coaches. Their job is to get the players to execute, and it just isn't happening. Their job is also to recognize when players are not contributing and frankly be bloodless and heartless in only playing guys who are executing. I've been a big fan of playing the young guys to get them experience, but the last two weeks of made me realize that playing Lewis and Lee every day is likely to doom the season. They just aren't making a contribution. Now, I'm not sure that Helman, Martin and Keirsey would be any better but we certainly need to give that a try. Miranda also needs to be playing every day because he's one of the few guys that is hitting at all. I just feel like this coaching staff has not made a good effort at trying to adjust the roster. I recognize that the options are limited with so many guys out, but you still have to recognize when things are not working and make changes.

My prediction is that the Twins will fade out of the playoffs and Rocco will be back next year with basically the same philosophy. It works if you don't have injuries, it doesn't if you do. I think the last three years have shown us that.

Injuries have played a factor no doubt.  But At SOME point the Twins just have to move on from these players that are consistently out 1/3 of the season EVERY season it seems (we all know who they are, and there are a few that are habitual at it).  You can't field a competitive team when you have core players consistently missing time like this every year.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Well we've had a former front office staff member on this very site confirm that Rocco and the front office talk everyday. Is that "strong proof?" The idea that Rocco is doing things independent of the front office makes no sense. They provide him information and strategy everyday. If they didn't like how he does things why did they extend him and not fire him? 

Do you think firing Rocco would lead to them hiring a manager that does things drastically different?

Citing an unnamed worker saying anything is not proof. It could be proof if you would have linked the article that provides the name and the quote referred to.

[Guest]

IMHO, player injury and non performance is not within the managers control. The manager can not make Wallner not strike out. The manager can not make Miranda run fast enough to go from first to home on a double. These two examples are from the third game recently played in KC.