Folding Dallas Keuchel into 6-Man Rotation Would Be Wise Choice for Twins

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Nick Nelson said:

What about the article indicates I have a "lotta faith" in Keuchel? 

Probably the title - Folding Dallas Keuchel into 6-Man Rotation Would Be Wise Choice for Twins

Would it be wise to put him into the rotation if there was no, a little, or moderate faith in him?

[lukeduke1980]

Getting a start is different than setting up a 6 man rotation.   Start him out of th AS break against Oakland to give everyone an extra day.  He does well, then maybe fit in another start, meanwhile see if we figured out how to hit.

[Mike Sixel]

19 minutes ago, lukeduke1980 said:

Getting a start is different than setting up a 6 man rotation.   Start him out of th AS break against Oakland to give everyone an extra day.  He does well, then maybe fit in another start, meanwhile see if we figured out how to hit.

I doubt a couple days rest fixes years of not hitting by the three starting OFers.....and Miranda clearly hasn't fixed his problems from last year. 

[Coach Wheels]

The idea of discussing a 6th person in our rotation, which then allow for fewer starts from Gray, Lopez, Ober, and Ryan, when we need offense blows my mind. We have no issues with our rotation, find offense!!!

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Coach Wheels said:

The idea of discussing a 6th person in our rotation, which then allow for fewer starts from Gray, Lopez, Ober, and Ryan, when we need offense blows my mind. We have no issues with our rotation, find offense!!!

Plus it stresses the bullpen.

The only reason this would make any sense is if they want to rest Ober, given his lack of innings pitched the last few years (or to trade Gray, which I don't think this FO is selling).

[Beast]

It would be so Minnesota Twins to refuse a 6 man rotation and burn a handful Ober’s starts in AAA when you thought you had a healthy Mahle, then use it to force the decayed remains of both Maeda and Keuchel and their 87 mph heaters into the fold.

I’m not opposed to a 6 man, but looking at those two scenarios juxtaposed reveals the absurdity (if it were to happen) of that decision making process. It’s not even close in terms of which of those two scenarios is more beneficial to the team.

 

[Shaitan]

Sure. Put him in the rotation. If they're in last place in late August and sold everyone else.

[Coach Wheels]

25 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Plus it stresses the bullpen.

The only reason this would make any sense is if they want to rest Ober, given his lack of innings pitched the last few years (or to trade Gray, which I don't think this FO is selling).

Well, if they trade Gray, they'd be ba k to a 5 man rotation with Kuechal as the 5th. I'm honestly not interested in Kuechal being part of this group. Find offense or settle for who we are.

[IndianaTwin]

Do we actually know Keuchel's opt-out date? 

 

That's an honest question that I'm curious about. My rhetorical response is that if it's more than a week or so out, it feels like a pretty pointless conversation at this time. These things often resolve themselves and many of our opinions will change by then, whether from his continued or loss of effectiveness, his health, the health of others in the rotation and the results of games between now and then.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

5 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

It's going to be really interesting to see how they manage Ober. He's already at 100 innings for only the 3rd time in his life. If they run a 5 man rotation the rest of the season they're all getting 14 more starts. I can't imagine they're letting Ober throw another 70 or 80 innings this year. 

Do they go straight 6 man rotation giving everyone an extra day's rest? Do they throw in a couple IL stints for guys and skip a couple starts? Send Ober down for 2 weeks, but don't actually pitch him? Will be interesting to see what they do. I'd guess they let Lopez, Ryan, and Gray go with no concerns. I think Maeda is probably in the same boat as long as he keeps performing. But I think they'll do some things to manage Ober's innings no matter how he's pitching. Keuchel could certainly be part of that plan.

This makes me think of Miami's recent decision to option their young starter Eury Pérez. He was a top prospect and he's been good in the majors, so the report was that they're managing his innings due to the limited number he'd thrown in past seasons (and I don't think they made any secret of that fact) and wanted him to save some bullets for the playoffs.

The Twins would be in a different situation—they have a decent chance to make the postseason by winning their weak division but have a much worse record (and maybe less hope of playoff success) than the Marlins, and Ober's in his third year, not a rookie. But it does seem like the same logic could be at play. If they right the ship enough in the second half to make the playoffs, I think Ober belongs in the playoff rotation, at least in a four-man one.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

5 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

It's going to be really interesting to see how they manage Ober. He's already at 100 innings for only the 3rd time in his life. If they run a 5 man rotation the rest of the season they're all getting 14 more starts. I can't imagine they're letting Ober throw another 70 or 80 innings this year. 

Do they go straight 6 man rotation giving everyone an extra day's rest? Do they throw in a couple IL stints for guys and skip a couple starts? Send Ober down for 2 weeks, but don't actually pitch him? Will be interesting to see what they do. I'd guess they let Lopez, Ryan, and Gray go with no concerns. I think Maeda is probably in the same boat as long as he keeps performing. But I think they'll do some things to manage Ober's innings no matter how he's pitching. Keuchel could certainly be part of that plan.

This makes me think of Miami's recent decision to option their young starter Eury Pérez. He was a top prospect and he's been good in the majors, so the report was that they're managing his innings due to the limited number he'd thrown in past seasons (and I don't think they made any secret of that fact) and wanted him to save some bullets for the playoffs.

The Twins would be in a different situation—they have a decent chance to make the postseason by winning their weak division but have a much worse record (and maybe less hope of playoff success) than the Marlins, and Ober's in his third year, not a rookie. But it does seem like the same logic could be at play. If they right the ship enough in the second half to make the playoffs, I think Ober belongs in the playoff rotation, at least in a four-man one.

[Mike Sixel]

26 minutes ago, Coach Wheels said:

Well, if they trade Gray, they'd be ba k to a 5 man rotation with Kuechal as the 5th. I'm honestly not interested in Kuechal being part of this group. Find offense or settle for who we are.

I'm not either....I was pointing out the only reason it would make sense.

[nicksaviking]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm not either....I was pointing out the only reason it would make sense.

Whether they move Gray or not (almost certainly not), I'd rather cycle through the AAA and AA pitchers and do bullpen games/piggy-backing than I would give Keuchel a roster spot. Don't care how poor their ERAs are in the minors, I'd rather audition and give reps to those guys than gnash my teeth about wasting this season and next giving pointless innings to a washed up vet.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

Whether they move Gray or not (almost certainly not), I'd rather cycle through the AAA and AA pitchers and do bullpen games/piggy-backing than I would give Keuchel a roster spot. Don't care how poor their ERAs are in the minors, I'd rather audition and give reps to those guys than gnash my teeth about wasting this season and next giving pointless innings to a washed up vet.

Again, we agree. I have no interest in Keuchel, but I'm not the FO that signed him.....

[Johnny Ringo]

The team seems in disarray the past few weeks. Rocco is unhappy with the players. Rocco is unhappy with the FO. The Pohlads are getting itchy (per Souhan) and maybe the skipper knows that he may be the fall guy. That will make you cranky. With the way the races are presently, there will be far more buyers than sellers at the end of the month . I think Falvey is hoping for a streak (either winning or losing) to tell him what to do into the trading deadline.  Being a very shaky .500 is the worst place to be. 

If the team's fortunes turn south than Gray will be shopped and Keuchel represents a warm body to finish the season.  I appreciate your writing Nick but this team has much bigger issues than saving a few innings of starting pitching.

I hope the team will be bold out of the break. DFA Kepler and Gallo. Bring up Wallner. Play Kirilloff more. Shake the tree.  

This team is the beneficiary of two things: amazing SP and the Kansas City Royals. Without those gifts, this is one big stinky pile of poo; smelling of bad hitting, defense and base running That mix gets crucified (if you make it) in the playoffs.    

[KirbyDome89]

So we're taking away innings from a rotation that has carried this team and giving them to a washed up, veteran SP and a bullpen with 2-3 reliable arms. Ok....

Was watching Chris Archer scuffle through short starts and chew up a middling pen last year so enjoyable that we feel the need to repeat it? 

[Doctor Gast]

IMO this FO has some querks, one is thinking a washed up soft tossing lefty (like Happ) can contribute to this team. Unfortunately, Keuchel is the next one, I had 0 faith in Happ & I have 0 faith in Keuchel.

Though the idea to have a "fall back" is a good one, Keuchel isn't the answer. My solution would have been bringing back Chris Archer. I hesitate to suggest this because I know the blow back I'll get from people who fall for negative hype & fail to look at underlying conditions. But when Archer came back from his injury with TB he was able to pitch 3 good innings, he was able to get it up 5 innings with the Twins (he'd have more innings if the Twins pitch calling wasn't so absolutely terrible last year, driving his pitch count so high).  

On his projectory he should be able to pitch 5+ quality this year. Many was hoping he could have attain that level early last year but as we experienced with Polanco, Kiriloff and Buxton that total recovery often takes longer than we expect. Plus this year we have Vazquez that has aided tremendously to our starting rotation success (much more than many would admit) through his pitch calling & Archer would greatly benefit from him.

[DocBauer]

The idea of the 6 man rotation to keep everyone strong, healthy, and fresh to finish out the season is a solid one. Though I'd rather see Varland get on his game again and be the guy.

But IF Keuchel has anything left and CAN get hitters out with any sort of reliability, you can have the advantages of a 6 man rotation without actually having to have a 6 man rotation.

Whether you want to make your plan FIXED or not, it's as simple as every starter skips a start and slides to the pen. Example: Ober skips a start one turn through, uses a game experience at some point to be his "bullpen" instead of throwing on the side, the the pen still has 8 members, not 7, thus not weakened.

They've done this 6 man cycle in the minors for years to give young arms opportunities and to keep them fresh for an entire season. If Keuchel still, actually, has something left in the tank and can contribute, this is the most logical way to proceed. 

 

[D.C Twins]

If 'Dallas' is the answer, the question was most certainly NOT "what pitcher would a championship caliber team add to their roster"

[Linus]

So we have a top flight starting rotation and a suspect bullpen. Here is an idea: have our good starting pitchers pitch less and put more pressure on our suspect bullpen.  Brilliant!  What a dumb premise.  

[dxpavelka]

Which might also allow the starters to (continue to) pitch a little deeper into games and take some pressure off the bullpen.

 

[Nine of twelve]

5 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

Which might also allow the starters to (continue to) pitch a little deeper into games and take some pressure off the bullpen.

I doubt this would be the case. I haven't researched this, but I think the vast majority of starters are as rested as they'll get after 4 days off. Of course there will be occasional exceptions, for example someone coming off an injury or someone in the process of converting from reliever to starter, but I don't think the extra day off would prevent the fatigue that sets in after 80-100 pitches.

[Nine of twelve]

21 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Our best trade piece right now is Sonny. Maybe we trade him and insert Dallas for the remainder of the year.  

Obviously, like any trade it depends on the return. Joe Ryan notwithstanding, teams won't give up much for a 2-month rental. Probably not worth it to trade him.

[karcherd]

22 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Our best trade piece right now is Sonny. Maybe we trade him and insert Dallas for the remainder of the year.  

So if we trade one of our top 2 pitchers, that basically signals that we are not going to make the playoffs, which I don't necessarily disagree with.  Why would you then give those starts to a washed up veteran.  Give the starts to Varland, SWR, even Dobnak.  Can we start seeing what we have for future years.  This obsession with washed up vets is really unbelievable.  If you want to bring someone into the organization can it be for once an upgrade over what we have.  Not a I hope they can turn it around vet or we can make them better.

[DJL44]

21 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

What about the article indicates I have a "lotta faith" in Keuchel? 

The title

"Folding Dallas Keuchel into 6 man rotation would be a wise choice for Twins"

I don't think it's a wise choice at all.

[laloesch]

1 hour ago, karcherd said:

So if we trade one of our top 2 pitchers, that basically signals that we are not going to make the playoffs, which I don't necessarily disagree with.  Why would you then give those starts to a washed up veteran.  Give the starts to Varland, SWR, even Dobnak.  Can we start seeing what we have for future years.  This obsession with washed up vets is really unbelievable.  If you want to bring someone into the organization can it be for once an upgrade over what we have.  Not a I hope they can turn it around vet or we can make them better.

SWR has been HORRIBLE in St. Paul in 2023.   I do not understand the fascination with him.  His minor league numbers as a whole have been very mediocre.  I'd rather see Varland chock up the experience.  We also know what we have in Dobnak too which is more mediocrity.  Dallas needs to be stretched out more in my opinion before being called up (if that's the FO's plan).  He's only made 3 starts so far and gone no more than 4 innings in only one of them.

[raindog]

They’re not going to a 7 man bullpen. They’re just not. 

[DJL44]

I would rather put Jhoan Duran in the rotation than Dallas Keuchel

[Mike Sixel]

On 7/12/2023 at 4:13 AM, Nine of twelve said:

Obviously, like any trade it depends on the return. Joe Ryan notwithstanding, teams won't give up much for a 2-month rental. Probably not worth it to trade him.

Last year multiple teams gave up multiple legit prospects for rentals. 

[Nine of twelve]

11 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Last year multiple teams gave up multiple legit prospects for rentals. 

We don't want or need prospects this season. We need a hitter capable of doing well against MLB pitching. That's not going to come our way.