Take Two: Pending Physicals, Twins and Dodgers Agree to Trade

[Squirrel]

I'm signing back in at 11:16 PM tonight SQUIRREL just to read what promises to be a brilliant post

Well, I do do my best thinking at night so it’s possible I could get hit with brilliance

[twinsfaninsaudi]

http://twinsdaily.com/blog/1282/entry-11699-why-jordan-balazovic-has-the-makings-of-an-ace/

 

I’m really high on Jordy Blaze and so is this author!

Thank you.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Nick, What happened here was what you suggested in an earlier post. Good call.

[Squirrel]

http://twinsdaily.com/blog/1282/entry-11699-why-jordan-balazovic-has-the-makings-of-an-ace/

I’m really high on Jordy Blaze and so is this author!

The first time I heard that name, I was ‘Who the heck is Jordy Blaze?’

 

That thought likely came at 11:16am and not the brilliant hour of 11:16pm

[jkcarew]

I'm both good and disappointed with the trade. This is a good move for the next 3-4 years. The contract speaks for itself, and it addresses a big need which is starting pitching beyond 2020. This isn't really just a 2020 'win-now' move.

 

The disappointing part is that this is confirmation that the Twins didn't see Graterol ever holding up to a major-league starter workload. And that's quite different from what everyone was hoping for when we ranked/discussed Graterol as being at the very top of the prospect list.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Can someone enlighten me…is this better than having the same deal where Balazovic is traded instead of Graterol. I loved what I saw from the Bruiser, guy threw lightning out if his right arm. I wanted him in the bullpen this year. When there were brief rumors that Balazovic would it take his stead in the trade I was surprised to see many Twins followers saying that would be a worse deal for the Twins.

The Balazovic thing was a rumor but I think it was a likely ask from the Sox perspective.

 

And the fact the front office didn't move from Graterol suggests they view the rest of their pitching prospects more highly, which is probably a good thing.

[stringer bell]

 

They have NO idea yet. The TJ was several year ago. The impingement last year was Not that unusual. They are guessing and desperate for SP because they (and former mgmt) mismanaged pitching assets in years past. This looks desperate, as the Bailey and Chacin signings were weak (and Baileys was premature if you were going to make this move with Maeda) Should have been Hill, Walker and Maeda (trading assets like excess OF aside from high end SP, or an as yet unknown like graterol). It was stupid, and we have cluttered our staff with more re-treads so we will further push back Thorpe, Dobnak, and Smeltzer evals into Balazovic, Duran and Colima the following year. It just continues this CYCLE of stupidity for more years.

I have to disagree. This club is firmly on a win-now path. They have added depth in their rotation and versatility with Maeda. With both Pineda and Hill out for more than the first month, they have veteran options and it is entirely possible that some of the veteran options they have acquired will stay in the rotation when (first) Pineda and (then) Hill become available. For the first two-thirds of 2019, the Twins had the five-man rotation start more than 90% of their games. I doubt they will have the same fortune this year. 

 

I don't want to dump on prospects, but Dobnak, Thorpe and Smeltzer are not top prospects. They did each have moments last year and I think it wouldn't be a disaster if any of them made the rotation to start the season. However, to count on them and need them to be positive contributors is not the blueprint of a team that is trying to win a championship. 

[ChrisKnutson]

ABSOLUTELY my view, as well. You DONT make this trade yet with Graterol. You already fu$&ed up a similar prospect in Romero with this assumption that he wouldn’t be a viable starter. That was wrong. He looked damn good in first few games. Now, they will have to resurrect him. He isn’t a reliever either. Graterol needed a chance with big club over a few years. Now, the Dodgers will use him like Urias and work his innings up. We WILL regret this in less than 2 years. He will probably stick it up our a$$ if we face the dodgers in the playoffs too....,only one year ago he was our top SP at age 20. So, 6 months later and at 21 we are SURE he will be a RP only and ship him off for a 32 year old #5 or #6 SP for Dodgers in 2020? LA must be laughing at us and were only too happy to step in for Boston.

It’s not that I think Maeda is a bad pitcher, he will definitely help us. However, how can we be truly playing for 2020 when we just gave a better team a better shot at winning the WS in 2020??

[IndianaTwin]

 

Well, I do do my best thinking at night so it’s possible I could get hit with brilliance

 

As a SQUIRREL, we much prefer you getting hit with brilliance than with a car. 

[Diesel]

Luke Raley sent back to the Dodgers. Assume that leaves the 40 man spot to Chacin

[stringer bell]

The other thing on Maeda is that he's under contract for four more years, with minimal financial risk. At best he makes $13M a year and earns it by being a functional part of the rotation for the next four years. At worst, he costs just north of $12M and the Dodgers gave the Twins that much money anyway.

 

Yes, the Twins traded the potential of Graterol, but they get a surer bet in Maeda. 

[jkcarew]

 

It’s not that I think Maeda is a bad pitcher, he will definitely help us. However, how can we be truly playing for 2020 when we just gave a better team a better shot at winning the WS in 2020??

I'd rather make the trade to a team that could use him to beat us in the World Series than to a team that could beat us in the AL Central or the AL playoffs, wouldn't you? Were there a lot of other NL teams out there that could supply us with 4 years of a Maeda for $3M+ incentives per year?

[Don Walcott]

Just read that we're sending Luke Raley to the Dodgers. No identification of what minor leaguer might be heading our way.

[IndianaTwin]

 

Luke Raley sent back to the Dodgers. Assume that leaves the 40 man spot to Chacin

 

Remember that Hill can be moved to the 60-day IL in a few days, so Chacin can get the spot later if he earns it. Effectively, with adding Maeda and dropping Graterol and Raley, this puts us at 39....

 

 

 

 

...with several days yet to sign Taijuan Walker.  

[jkcarew]

 

The other thing on Maeda is that he's under contract for four more years, with minimal financial risk. At best he makes $13M a year and earns it by being a functional part of the rotation for the next four years. At worst, he costs just north of $12M and the Dodgers gave the Twins that much money anyway.

 

Yes, the Twins traded the potential of Graterol, but they get a surer bet in Maeda. 

Actually, I don't see it as "the other thing"....I see it as THE thing. It's the four years...addressing the starting pitching need beyond 2020...and doing so without inhibiting the ability to spend money on higher-end options (or Berrios, etc.) if/when that time comes. That's the get that off-sets having Graterol in your bullpen, IMO.

[twins_89]

Raley makes sense as the prospect included since he doesn't have all that much value and he's pretty redundant as a left handed 4th outfield option (Twins already have Cave and Wade to fill that role).

 

I'm a bit less thrilled with basically selling the draft pick.

[Brandon]

So the final trade is Brian Dozier, Graterol, a comp B pick to the Dodgers for Maeda, 10 million dollars, and Smeltzer.  got it.

[stringer bell]

Absolutely no reason to add Chacín until the last day before the Twins play their first regular season game. They now have a spot to claim someone who might help them, and with Hill going on the 60-day they'll essentially have two spots.

 

Raley is an OF/1B. The Twins have higher rated prospects that play outfield corners and first base. I think Raley will reach the majors this year and he might be a pretty good player, but the Twins have Rooker, Larnach and Kirilloff.

[birddog]

So happy the trade went through even with the alterations. Both sides are probably feeling like they gave up too much which means it's a fair trade. Twins starting pitching is still not at level of Yankees, Red Sox or Astros but we are closing the gap.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

It’s not that I think Maeda is a bad pitcher, he will definitely help us. However, how can we be truly playing for 2020 when we just gave a better team a better shot at winning the WS in 2020??

This. Graterol is a stud. You don't trade game changers of his caliber. Brusdar was great in 2019 and will be great in 2020. Twins picked up the lesser player now and in the future.

[TopGunn#22]

This is a much better deal if Balazovic is not included.  he will be a very good front line starter for the Twins.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not thrilled about the money, unless they deal at deadline. I suppose to opens up that possibility more, which has value. I'm just not sure it has pick 67 and Raley value. That's two years now they've sold picks for money.

 

But, if they don't believe that Gaterol is a starter, this still makes sense to do in some combination. Overall, I like the deal, just not sure I love the deal.

[joemama]

 

Can someone enlighten me…is this better than having the same deal where Balazovic is traded instead of Graterol. I loved what I saw from the Bruiser, guy threw lightning out if his right arm. I wanted him in the bullpen this year. When there were brief rumors that Balazovic would it take his stead in the trade I was surprised to see many Twins followers saying that would be a worse deal for the Twins.

Balazovic (and Duran) are rated below Graterol in MLB's prospect rankings but that's before the new sentiment that Graterol is more suited to the pen. Red Sox were probably willing to take Balazovic, but the Twins wouldn't give. Our top SP prospects are probably close to untouchable, as it's a clear future need. OF is an area of surplus in our system, and Raley (who came FROM the Dodgers in the Dozier trade) was not among the top 5 or so OF prospects, despite putting up very good numbers at AAA last year.

[Darius]

Lost this deal.

[Nine of twelve]

 

Please, no Take Three!

[Dman]

Raley was going to have a tough time getting a shot with the Twins and he was kind of clogging the the 40 man as a redundant outfielder.  We need to add Kirilloff to the 40 man at the end of this year so an outfielder needed to move Raley makes sense.  If that is what needed to happen to make the trade go through I am fine with that.  I don't know how Fredman does it but he always gets value.  I think Raley is going to be a very good major league player in time he just needs some opportunity.  

 

I hate losing Brusdar just absolutely loved that kid but this makes sense for the Twins.  I hope that pitching pipeline is ready to produce so we don't have to keep making deals like this but I really think they did the right thing here. I think the Dodgers win this trade long term but I also think we needed this move at this time.

[Nine of twelve]

 

now you have Berrios, Maeda, and Pineda in your ‘21 rotation. Next offseason, much more feasible to fill out or improve on a potentially very good ‘20 rotation.

I am becoming more convinced that Falvine know what they are doing. One of the side effects of having a competent and successful organization is that players and agents will take note, making Minneapolis a desirable destination for quality free agents.

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

I love this deal!  And the best part is when the deal is finalized it means that the Dodgers had no problems with the medical info, putting the lie to the Cheating Sox claims.  Hopefully also silencing their bandwagon fans who try to explain how baseball works, even though they aren't aware that the game existed before 2004.

[ChrisKnutson]

I'd rather make the trade to a team that could use him to beat us in the World Series than to a team that could beat us in the AL Central or the AL playoffs, wouldn't you? Were there a lot of other NL teams out there that could supply us with 4 years of a Maeda for $3M+ incentives per year?

To each his own I guess, but was I really necessary to include a potential 2020 difference maker like Graterol? Was there even a chance they would’ve accepted Cavaco (or Rooker) + other prospects?? I mean, I thought the whole point of dealing Maeda was to shed his contract to stay under the luxury tax threshold, you’d think the Twins FO would’ve had more leverage in which prospects would be headed to Los Angeles.

 

My point is that if the Twins FO wanted to reasonably upgrade the rotation they didn’t need to trade Graterol. In fact, we could’ve done far better than Maeda if we were willing to deal Larnach.

[Mike Sixel]

I love this deal! And the best part is when the deal is finalized it means that the Dodgers had no problems with the medical info, putting the lie to the Cheating Sox claims. Hopefully also silencing their bandwagon fans who try to explain how baseball works, even though they aren't aware that the game existed before 2004.

Based on the twins adding a prospect and a draft pick?

 

And, apparently, the sox get Downs, who is higher rated, and a catching prospect to boot.

 

Again, someone help me understand the anger at a team doing what teams do.