Take Two: Pending Physicals, Twins and Dodgers Agree to Trade

[Brandon]

Graterol or Jeter Downs.  which prospect would you rather have?

 

[Dman]

Friedman really helped Bloom out big time.  So Boston ended up not getting a pitcher at all in this deal?  I knew no one would give them a top 100 pitcher for Meada and I knew LA wouldn't do it either.  I fail to see how Boston got much more in the new deal and certainly nothing close to the two top 10 prospects they were pushing Minnesota for.  Position players are safer bets so I guess there's that and Friedman the smarter GM picks up Graterol and gets 6 years of a high octane arm.  He also picks up the Twins 2nd round comp pick and they have been good at finding guys in the early rounds. That guy never loses a deal.  The Dodgers are going to be good for a very long time.

 

Happy for the Twins as well though.  Picking up another solid starter to start the year is huge given the issues we have.  Maeda is on a performance driven contract so if does poorly at least they won't have to pay for it.  Also he could be moved to the pen and help that way.  The Twins like to have a flexible roster and this guy fits right into that.

 

Hate to see Graterol go.  Like Friedman I believe he is going to be just fine in the Major leagues and if he ever does develop that change up I still think he can start but maybe that is my blind optimism talking.  Also hate to lose that second round pick as it makes the draft less exciting but we now have a team where you sacrifice the future for the present happy with move even though we lost a second and third round pick this year

 

Really, really happy with the FO.  They really seem to know what they are doing.

[jkcarew]

 

Can someone enlighten me…is this better than having the same deal where Balazovic is traded instead of Graterol. I loved what I saw from the Bruiser, guy threw lightning out if his right arm. I wanted him in the bullpen this year. When there were brief rumors that Balazovic would it take his stead in the trade I was surprised to see many Twins followers saying that would be a worse deal for the Twins.

It's all a part of the slow, painful process of anger, denial, and acceptance of the fact that the Twins FO doesn't (didn't) think Graterol can be a starting pitcher in the major leagues. And, the accompanying belief that Balazovic is still on track to be a starter.

[Squirrel]

Can someone enlighten me…is this better than having the same deal where Balazovic is traded instead of Graterol. I loved what I saw from the Bruiser, guy threw lightning out if his right arm. I wanted him in the bullpen this year. When there were brief rumors that Balazovic would it take his stead in the trade I was surprised to see many Twins followers saying that would be a worse deal for the Twins.

Those rumors were in addition to, not instead of, but it was Boston’s ask and the Twins rightfully said no

[Squirrel]

For whatever reason I'm unable to like or quote posts from this thread. So I just want to say I like SQUIRREL's comment from 11:16 PM!

What post?

[drivlikejehu]

The $10 million could be significant, since the Twins are presumably up against their payroll limits at this point. That could open up a deadline deal that otherwise they couldn't pull off.

[sftwinsfan]

I don't like this regime has essentially sold a draft pick for cash for the 2nd time now. Good that it seems like its getting done now. I'm weary of how Maeda will translate to the AL and the mileage on his arm but I think it makes the Twins the clear favorite in the division this year. If Graterol's health holds up I think the Twins will regret this trade, sad to see an arm like that go. 

[Squirrel]

I think it’s funny that Boston fans will have to cheer on someone named Jeter.

[SwainZag]

Still sucks. Maybe 1-2 decent years of Maeda for a 21 year old that will either be a Top starter or Top reliever we could use for 6+ years. All because we are desperate for SPs and have no inside options (and we are doing the same damn thing again this year by loading up on vets with no developed internal options. Hate this cycle we keep repeating.

Or Maeda could be above average for 4 years and Graterol never develops into a top anything. I totally understand the disappointment in the loss of potential... but this deal could work out very well.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

If Maeda hits 150-175 innings with his escalators I wonder what the Twins payroll would be? I guess it's ok to read those TD Maeda articles now!

About 135mil, if spotrac is right.

 

132 + 13 - 10

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/minnesota-twins//payroll

[D.C Twins]

 

What post?

I'm signing back in at 11:16 PM tonight SQUIRREL just to read what promises to be a brilliant post

[twinsfaninsaudi]

Those rumors were in addition to, not instead of, but it was Boston’s ask and the Twins rightfully said no

Whoa whoa whoa. There were rumors both ways, see the link below which has the Tweets that spurred all that, clearly says Balazovic “replacing” Graterol, and when that was floating around there were Twins people, including people active on this site, who were saying Balazovic > Graterol. Is Balazovic > than Graterol? If is it’s news to me, and now they we have to say good bye to the Bruiser who was going to be our right handed 2018 Josh Hader, I would like to be convinced that Balazovic is actually better than Graterol and I would prefer an argument that did not overly rely on the “a starter is more valuable than a reliever” argument. I gotta believe I’ll have some takers out there.

 

https://www.believeinbostonsports.com/2020/02/07/breaking-the-mookie-betts-trade-is-done-balazovic-replaces-graterol/

[jkcarew]

 

Graterol or Jeter Downs.  which prospect would you rather have?

I mean, if you really believe Graterol won't be able to handle a starter workload in the majors, you'd rather have Downs. So, I think the Red Sox FO will be able to sell it, given the narrative they've fed their fans for the last 48 hours. Downs is a middle-infielder (still playing mostly shortstop) who had a combined A+/AA OPS of .888....at age 20.

[chinmusic]

 

The trade being good or not is all dependent on who the second prospect is and the cash that we are getting back.

 

[ChrisKnutson]

While we may win the division with this move (maybe even win a postseason series), I’m starting to feel as though we may have bolstered the Dodger’s 2020 WS chances even more (something we’re trying to accomplish too, right?). Taking Jansen’s decline and Kelly’s inconsistencies into consideration, the addition of Graterol could play a huge role in a potential Dodgers WS win.

[chinmusic]

I think the trade is fine, regardless. Especially if a big chunk of the $10 mil goes directly to Maeda for reaching as many of the incentive bonuses in his contract as he can!

[stringer bell]

Even though Graterol is younger, has MLB experience and throws harder, I believe the Twins think that Balazovic has more value because his arm can stand up to the rigors of starting long-term. 

 

I am not convinced that Graterol is going to be great this year and I am also not convinced he'll stay healthy even as a bullpen pitcher. He might be special and there is no guarantee that he won't be a starter. Time will tell.

[Minfidel]

 

Still sucks. Maybe 1-2 decent years of Maeda for a 21 year old that will either be a Top starter or Top reliever we could use for 6+ years. All because we are desperate for SPs and have no inside options (and we are doing the same damn thing again this year by loading up on vets with no developed internal options. Hate this cycle we keep repeating.

The Twins have three inside options right now, vying for one rotation spot instead of two. They have more top prospects a year or two away - and that's not wishful thinking - but still need time to work their way up against tougher competition. They also have a team that won 101 games last year that should contend at the highest levels this season. Would you really be happier with a contending team looking to rookies to carry nearly half the rotation?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Whoa whoa whoa. There were rumors both ways, see the link below which has the Tweets that spurred all that, clearly says Balazovic “replacing” Graterol, and when that was floating around there were Twins people, including people active on this site, who were saying Balazovic > Graterol. Is Balazovic > than Graterol? If is it’s news to me, and now they we have to say good bye to the Bruiser who was going to be our right handed 2018 Josh Hader, I would like to be convinced that Balazovic is actually better than Graterol and I would prefer an argument that did not overly rely on the “a starter is more valuable than a reliever” argument. I gotta believe I’ll have some takers out there.

 

https://www.believeinbostonsports.com/2020/02/07/breaking-the-mookie-betts-trade-is-done-balazovic-replaces-graterol/

Those rumors were from the equivalent of Brandon Warne. I love Warne, great writer, he’s not LEN3 or Ken Rosenthal.

 

It’s not that Warne, or Thomas Holland or any of us here at TD can’t break news coverage... but I wouldn’t take it as gospel

[jkcarew]

 

Whoa whoa whoa. There were rumors both ways, see the link below which has the Tweets that spurred all that, clearly says Balazovic “replacing” Graterol, and when that was floating around there were Twins people, including people active on this site, who were saying Balazovic > Graterol. Is Balazovic > than Graterol? If is it’s news to me, and now they we have to say good bye to the Bruiser who was going to be our right handed 2018 Josh Hader, I would like to be convinced that Balazovic is actually better than Graterol and I would prefer an argument that did not overly rely on the “a starter is more valuable than a reliever” argument. I gotta believe I’ll have some takers out there.

https://www.believeinbostonsports.com/2020/02/07/breaking-the-mookie-betts-trade-is-done-balazovic-replaces-graterol/

But there is no other argument. A good starter is worth more than a great reliever. Period. It's easier to find guys who can work 3-4 innings a week one inning at a time and get people out. Much harder to find guys who can throw 5+ innings a game, 200 innings a year effectively.

 

And that's what's going on with this trade. If the Twins thought Graterol was going to be able to handle a major-league starter workload, they wouldn't have offered him for Maeda. (The presumption being that the Twins still feel like Balazovic will be able to handle a starters workload.)  

[Doctor Gast]

I`m sure LA & Boston is very happy, way to go FO

[Seth Stohs]

 

Can someone enlighten me…is this better than having the same deal where Balazovic is traded instead of Graterol. I loved what I saw from the Bruiser, guy threw lightning out if his right arm. I wanted him in the bullpen this year. When there were brief rumors that Balazovic would it take his stead in the trade I was surprised to see many Twins followers saying that would be a worse deal for the Twins.

 

Balazovic is a better prospect than Graterol... Balazovic can be a starter. Graterol is probably a reliever. The Twins were wise to never consider Balazovic in any deal. 

[twinsfaninsaudi]

Those rumors were from the equivalent of Brandon Warne. I love Warne, great writer, he’s not LEN3 or Ken Rosenthal.

 

It’s not that Warne, or Thomas Holland or any of us here at TD can’t break news coverage... but I wouldn’t take it as gospel

Yes I know and knew they were bad rumors, though it was what I was hoping to happen, the veracity I’d the rumors makes no diff even I am only providing context for how I saw people on Twitter saying Balazovic > than Graterol. Now that Graterol is gone I’m requesting that someone make that argument to me (I don’t know much about Balazovic) as it would make me feel better about losing Graterol. Graterol could have been a dominant force out of the pen this year, does Balazovic offer that same upside?

[chinmusic]

 

The trade being good or not is all dependent on who the second prospect is and the cash that we are getting back.

 

[Crackedfungo]

But if the Twins FO thought he was going to be a top starter they wouldn't have offered him in this deal, right...for a good-not-great starter? We can wish all we want, but it's pretty difficult now to suggest the Twins see Graterol as being a starter. Ever. Of course, that doesn't mean they'll be proven correct. We'll see.

 

They have NO idea yet. The TJ was several year ago. The impingement last year was

Not that unusual. They are guessing and desperate for SP because they (and former mgmt) mismanaged pitching assets in years past. This looks desperate, as the Bailey and Chacin signings were weak (and Baileys was premature if you were going to make

this move with Maeda) Should have been Hill, Walker and Maeda (trading assets like excess OF aside from high end SP, or an as yet unknown like graterol). It was stupid, and we have cluttered our staff with more re-treads so we will further push back Thorpe, Dobnak, and Smeltzer evals into Balazovic, Duran and Colima the following year.

It just continues this CYCLE of stupidity for more years.

[RichReese]

 

What post?

I think he is in a different time zone.

[twinsfaninsaudi]

Balazovic is a better prospect than Graterol... Balazovic can be a starter. Graterol is probably a reliever. The Twins were wise to never consider Balazovic in any deal.

Thanks Seth. Is it just because he’s a starter? Don’t talk right handed starting pitching prospects flame out/not pan out all the time? Graterol is the rarer talent isn’t he? Graterol could have been a force out of the bullpen this year, and chance Balazovic makes up that lost value? Trading Graterol is sacrificing talent from the pen to improve the rotation. Wouldn’t trading Balazovic have been trading value from the farm to improve the rotation? That would’ve been the better move for 2020 right?

[jkcarew]

 

They have NO idea yet. 

Of course they have an idea. They have a ton of information and data that you and I don't. And their information lead them to make the deal. What you are insinuating is that you think they'll be wrong. We'll see.

[Crackedfungo]

While we may win the division with this move (maybe even win a postseason series), I’m starting to feel as though we may have bolstered the Dodger’s 2020 WS chances even more (something we’re trying to accomplish too, right?). Taking Jansen’s decline and Kelly’s inconsistencies into consideration, the addition of Graterol could play a huge role in a potential Dodgers WS win.

 

ABSOLUTELY my view, as well. You DONT make this trade yet with Graterol. You already fu$&ed up a similar prospect in Romero with this assumption that he wouldn’t be a viable starter. That was wrong. He looked damn good in first few games. Now, they will have to resurrect him. He isn’t a reliever either. Graterol needed a chance with big club over a few years. Now, the Dodgers will use him like Urias and work his innings up. We WILL regret this in less than 2 years. He will probably stick it up our a$$ if we face the dodgers in the playoffs too....,only one year ago he was our top SP at age 20. So, 6 months later and at 21 we are SURE he will be a RP only and ship him off for a 32 year old #5 or #6 SP for Dodgers in 2020? LA must be laughing at us and were only too happy to step in for Boston.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Yes I know and knew they were bad rumors, though it was what I was hoping to happen, the veracity I’d the rumors makes no diff even I am only providing context for how I saw people on Twitter saying Balazovic > than Graterol. Now that Graterol is gone I’m requesting that someone make that argument to me (I don’t know much about Balazovic) as it would make me feel better about losing Graterol. Graterol could have been a dominant force out of the pen this year, does Balazovic offer that same upside?

http://twinsdaily.com/blog/1282/entry-11699-why-jordan-balazovic-has-the-makings-of-an-ace/

 

I’m really high on Jordy Blaze and so is Nash Walker!