Report: Twins Willing to Back Out on Blockbuster Deal

[IndianaTwin]

 

Does this mean we can talk about Maeda in next years "Ex-Twins in 2021" forum or not?

 

Pending a physical. 

[Doctor Gast]

Graterol has gone thru a lot, he`s been in limbo long enough. Finalize this.

  I see Maeda like Perez, a pitcher who wants to be a starter but don`t have the stuff to go 7+ innings for very long. Records show that Maeda after 3x around his efficiency drops off tremendously if Perez was on limited innings his results would be better than Maeda. Don`t get me wrong, I like Perez but I don`t think anyone would trade Perez for Graterol.

  Also it looks like LA maybe was trying to pond off Verdugo (w/ that abusement charge)

[specialiststeve]

Guessing Boston got all the kickback and "made up" extra concerns knowing that he had medicals that showed his past issues.... knowing LA wants this to go badly I would not be surprised if they add one of their own to get it done. Interesting and encouraging that the FO has not budged. 

[jimbo92107]

Welcome back, Bruiser! Twins bull pen is now chock full of hard-throwing talent. Fast track Balasovic, and you've got a good starting ro by May.

[howieramone2]

Maeda is closer to Cole than Perez. On the sex case, he happened to be in the same house when he was 19. He wasn't a participant, nor was he charged with a sex crime.

[Doctor Gast]

There are other trades out there, more of a pure starter w/ more upside which the teams would like more OF prospects instead. That`d be a better fit

[tvagle]

I'll avoid yet a 14th thread on Brusdargate and just throw this out here

 

I have not seen or read too much on the Friedman - Bloom Rays Connection

 

Bloom got his start in baseball under Friedman...was promoted by Friedman...worked with/for Friedman for 10 years

 

I imagine this went down something like...

 

AF - Congrats on the new job Bloomer...I think I can help you out, we have been cheated out of the WS Crown the last 3 years and Mookie will put us over the top...you need a graceful way to turn the Red Sox into the Rays and I'll help you out by taking half of Prices contract as well

 

CB - Thanks Andrew, I think this could work out but I'm gonna need to rebuild in a hurry there are actual fans in Boston that care about baseball, not your fans that show up in the 5th and are more interested in sitting by celebrities, these people are obsessed...how about Lux and May?

 

AF - Whoa Bloomer, that ain't happening for 1 year of Betts and a salary dump...you know who fits the "Rays Way"? Verdugo...we don't have room and he needs to play...perfect fit

 

CB - C'mon Andrew, I will need more than just Verdugo...this farm is a mess...have any idea of any young arms with upside that are available?

 

AF - Falvey keeps calling trying to pluck a started from us...seems to think he can help me deal with Maeda situation...like I need help...anyone from the Twins that interests you?

 

CB - Lemme check...What you know about the 21 year old Gatorade kid...he lights it up, read the Twins think he's a bullpenner...think they'd move him?

 

AF - I'll call Levine and ask him to ask Falvey if he'd part with Graterol for Maeda and then I'll just pass him on to you...sound good?

 

CB - So I'll get Verdugo and Graterol and you'll take on half or Prices contract along with Betts...you wouldn't throw in someone else...I'd be Down with Jeter?

 

AF - I see what you did there, very funny...not for only one year of Betts...look you know how I roll...no time for back and forths...Verdugo and Graterol for Half-Price and Betts is that a deal?

 

CB - My mandate was to get under the luxury tax anyway...so I'll check with Mr. Henry and get back to you...gee-whiz that was fast...it's a deal...Thanks Andrew you're the best...and thanks for helping me through this major transition

 

{at this time medicals are passed and things literally start to hit the fan}

 

CB - Andrew...um...ah...well this is really hard to say but the fans here don't like this trade at all and Mr. Henry is not a happy man...who knew an owner could really care what the fanbase was thinking or doing...never happened in Tampa...the docs don't think Graterol will ever become more than a relief pitcher and well, I may need more...

 

AF - Hold it there Bloomer, we're taking on a lot of risk here in LA and you know me when it comes to deals like this...once I agree to a deal that's it...that's the deal

 

CB - I'm getting roasted...any suggestions

 

AF - we're taking on $$$ and only getting one year of Betts...here's Levine's number, call him and ask to talk to Falvey...as for me we have a deal and we're ready to move forward...welcome to the big time Chaim, good luck making it work on your end

 

Here's the employment history for Friedman and Bloom

(in case anyone needs facts to back up the connection)

 

Andrew Friedman

 

2004 Director of Baseball Development
2005 Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations and General Manager
October 14, 2014, Left Rays

 

Chaim Bloom
 

February 2005 Hired as anIntern
October 2005 Began Full-time to work in Minor League Operations
2008 Assistant Director of Minor League Operations
2011 Director of Baseball Operations
2014 Vice President of Baseball Operations - Friedman Leaves
2016 Senior Vice President of Baseball Operations
2019 CBO - Chief Bumbling Officer - Chief Baseball Officer in Boston
 

[Nine of twelve]

I want to know what, specifically, the Red Sox cite about Graterol's medical condition that is the reason to invalidate the trade. I don't know if those details can be made public given HIPAA and so forth, but it would be very interesting to know exactly what, if anything, the Red Sox learned that they didn't already know.

[tvagle]

Apologies for the last post....the point that was rambling around in my head was that this was like a father-son deal with a non-related third party involved and dad has decided it's time for junior to learn to fly on his own, no matter how nuclear the fallout is

[Squirrel]

 

If they had asked the Dodgers or Twins for an additional prospect in the 11-30 range, or similar, I think most of us could buy that, or at least go along with it. We've seen that in amended deals before.

 

 

I think the Twins offered that, but it was rejected.

[jkcarew]

 

The vitriol at a team that got the medical details, and then decided they didn't like the idea as much, is amazing to me. They did nothing wrong at all.

Very legitimate sentiment, IMO. While, I probably side with those that feel we're seeing amateur hour unfold over in the Red Sox front offices....I don't think that exactly means that the medical records are 100% definitely irrelevant to this story.

 

First, let's not pretend that we necessarily know everything in those medical reports...or that the Twins have made a practice of transparency with fans and media regarding Graterol's arm. Of course, they haven't. That's not the way things work. Meanwhile, there have been plenty of smoking guns in Graterol's young career. So, is it possible things might be at least a little worse than we assumed? That maybe reliever isn't a short-term choice, but a necessary long-term approach to manage injury risk?

 

The fact that Boston should have been able to infer that the medical records would have issues based on public knowledge and Minnesota's willingness to trade him for Kenta Maeda...well that doesn't exactly say "but, the medical records are fine". 

[David HK]

 

The Red Sox organization is in shambles, lost their manager, new front office that botched their first big trade. How does that happen just over a year from being World Series champs?

Couldn't happen to a nicer club.

 

Except maybe the Yankees.

[David HK]

 

I want to know what, specifically, the Red Sox cite about Graterol's medical condition that is the reason to invalidate the trade. I don't know if those details can be made public given HIPAA and so forth, but it would be very interesting to know exactly what, if anything, the Red Sox learned that they didn't already know.

What specifically they didn't like about the medical report was that their fans were caning them over the deal. They claimed to find something they didn't like in order to save face, and maybe their clown-shoe-wearing jobs.  

[Nine of twelve]

I don't know who mentioned this first, but I'll repeat it. If the Red Sox were truly concerned about Graterol's medical report they would have simply said the deal was off. The fact that they want to keep Graterol and get a second player tells the world that the medical report is not the true issue.

[Squirrel]

 

I don't know who mentioned this first, but I'll repeat it. If the Red Sox were truly concerned about Graterol's medical report they would have simply said the deal was off. The fact that they want to keep Graterol and get a second player tells the world that the medical report is not the true issue.

Yep! This is what I've been saying. I even understand if after seeing the medicals that they want a different pitcher, but that they are still asking for Graterol PLUS another top 10 prospect? For Maeda? Come on. More is at play here than just medicals. Let the Dodgers chip in more then.

[twinsfaninsaudi]

https://youtu.be/gnsyS0fLKx0

[Richie the Rally Goat]

According to Feinsand, Twins could be in talks with the Dodgers for Maeda independent of Boston. Also, Dodgers and Sox are trying to bring in other teams on the trade.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/Feinsand/status/1226290283031166976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-37546590552571846850.ampproject.net%2F2001281851410%2Fframe.html

[mikelink45]

Why are we applauding the front office?  We got all excited about Maeda and now we aren't.  I am confused.  Who is the other top ten player.  If it is Rooker or Raley go ahead.  I am not happy and I am not excited by the FO that got us in, but might not go to the finish line.  Too much needs to be known. 

[Congo Hammer]

Headline is wrong. Boston IS the team that backed out. Sawx can Kiss The Twins A**!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Why are we applauding the front office? We got all excited about Maeda and now we aren't. I am confused. Who is the other top ten player. If it is Rooker or Raley go ahead. I am not happy and I am not excited by the FO that got us in, but might not go to the finish line. Too much needs to be known.

I’m really excited for Maeda for Graterol as a fair trade.

 

I don’t care about Dodgers and Sox part and the Twins shouldn’t have to pay more to facilitate that trade. If the Dodgers aren’t willing to pay more for Betts and Price the Twins shouldn’t foot that bill.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Why are we applauding the front office?  We got all excited about Maeda and now we aren't.  I am confused.  Who is the other top ten player.  If it is Rooker or Raley go ahead.  I am not happy and I am not excited by the FO that got us in, but might not go to the finish line.  Too much needs to be known. 

 

Ah the classic, bad trade! complaint followed by the how dare they not complete the trade! complaint that Gleeman predicted.

[bobs]

Let's see if I have this straight.  The Twins will "have" to keep a 20-year old who throws 100 mph in their bullpen.  And they now will not "get" a 32-year old SP is above average but was going to be coming from NL to the AL.  Put me in the not-at-all disappointed camp.

[h2oface]

 

I'm a little surprised the Dodgers wouldn't just say Graterol for Maeda is a fair trade and take it on anyway without regard to the Red Sox..    By all accounts they view Maeda as expendable.   They can get out of that contract and either have a top power arm or a still attractive piece of trade value.

 

From what I hear on Dodger Talk out here, the Dodgers really aren't interested in Graterol. They would like to make room for their wealth of young pitchers that are MLB ready, and Maeda is taking up space. 

[cardsfan]

Unfortunate for Brusdar, regardless of how this works out.

He's been unfairly portrayed as "damaged goods", which not only hurts his potential earnings but also hurts the Twins as his trade value has plummeted if this deal doesn't go through.

 

I do know one thing: Brusdar will be VERY motivated, regardless of where he plays. Kid's gotta be ticked off and I don't blame him.

Unfairly? His velocity contributed to a shoulder impingement and a Tommy John surgery. How many games do you think he will start over the next 6 years before he becomes a free agent?

[bighat]

MLB reporter Mark Feinsand says: "Latest on the Betts trade: per source, the Red Sox are focused on getting a deal done with the Dodgers above all else. The Twins appear to be out of the three-way deal, though a separate trade for Maeda remains in play."

[cardsfan]

Bunch of random thoughts:

 

1)Yes, the Twins said they were starting Graterol out in bullpen. But everything I remember seeing said that was because he didn't have anything more to prove in the minors, but also had never had his innings pushed to the point where he could be a year long starter. Don't remember anyone every saying he would NEVER be a starter publicly. The medical records may say it, but the Red Sox would never have known that. Starters are more valuable than relievers, even if it would have taken him a year or two to get stretched out to that point.

 

2)Of course Boras would say that he is healthy enough to start, Starters get more money than relievers. What else would an agent say?

 

3)If I were in charge I would still see if the Dodgers wanted to do a straight up swap of their own. Last year they used Maeda primarily as a reliever(for multiple reasons it appears). They clearly don't see him as a starter. But if they trade him they have an opening in the bullpen. So Graterol would be a cheaper, higher ceiling option. Regardless of the Red Sox, a trade between LA and MN still makes sense to me, both are trading from areas of strength to address areas of relative weakness.

Maeda started 26 games last season. His road ERA was over 5. He started 4 games against AL and was 1-3 losing a game in relief and 2 starts against the Angels.

 

If he was that good there would be more offers for him as the Dodgers I am sure made known he was available. I can imagine what his record would be with a team where balls fly out of the ballpark.

 

He ought to go to San Diego and make more starts at home.

[howieramone2]

Let us worry about that. Why did your team sit out the offseason?

[Vanimal46]

I concur with Aaron Gleeman listening to their last podcast. How can the Red Sox;

 

1) Determine solely off a medical report Graterol is not a starting pitcher?

 

And...

 

2) Still want him included in the trade after his medical report halted this whole negotiation?

 

If Graterol is such a red flag, then the Sox should have requested another starting pitching prospect. That would have been a somewhat reasonable negotiation tactic... Still requesting Graterol + another top prospect? That seems fishy....

 

I’m disappointed the trade didn’t get finalized. Oh well, now we know how the new regime in Boston operates. Not sure how willing the Twins are to work with them again soon.

[mikelink45]

 

I’m really excited for Maeda for Graterol as a fair trade.

I don’t care about Dodgers and Sox part and the Twins shouldn’t have to pay more to facilitate that trade. If the Dodgers aren’t willing to pay more for Betts and Price the Twins shouldn’t foot that bill.

Why not?  Throw in a Rooker, who cares.  Do we really want Maeda?  I do not know the medical issues so I cannot comment on them.  In the end if we keep Graterol, but lose Maeda is that a satisfactory ending?

[mikelink45]

 

Ah the classic, bad trade! complaint followed by the how dare they not complete the trade! complaint that Gleeman predicted.

It is all a mystery to me.  The real question is what do we want?  Is a Rooker or Raley worth dumping to get a Maeda?  How bad do we want Maeda?  What is really wrong with Graterol?  If we just want to keep Graterol that is okay too.  But I am puzzled by all this.