How Twins Ownership May Have Broken Byron Buxton’s Moral Code

[h2oface]

Anyone who stays is a fool now. Especially our best. How to ruin a team, by Derek Falvey. 

[ashbury]

44 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Anyone who stays is a fool now. Especially our best. How to ruin a team, by Derek Falvey. 

Ghost written by Joe Pohlad.

[sweetmusicviola16]

7 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

I appreciate your optimism.  The “let’s see how things go until the summer”might be the actual plan. But there is no chance in Hades the Nephew is coughing up a payroll of $130MM. Zero chance. $70MM would be a better target.

Nah, with that expected approximate payroll the smart move is to sell at peak price (which includes peak cost savings).  So selling sooner rather than later should get the best return and save the most salary.

My wish for Buck is that he does exactly what he wants and what is best for him and his family. He earned our respect and that no trade clause - neither were free. 

No way they go on a 40-45mil spending spree. Shortly after the dumping of salaries in July came the announcement of losing 40mil this season and 400mil of debt. They dropped payroll down to 95mil. This signals their intent. A lower payroll than 95 is far more like likely than a higher one.

[Major League Ready]

10 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

If this truly is what Falvey believes and will pursue (i.e. building around Buxton, Ryan, and Lopez), he’s a bigger idiot than most of us believe (if that’s even possible).

So, the new strategy is a halfway rebuild in which we lose 90+ games and get nothing for our biggest assets, all of whom arguably are at their all-time (including the future) peak trade values and won’t be re-signed, before baseball shuts down for a good part or more of ‘27?  That would be the definition of pure GM lunacy.

C’mon, these quotes have to be lip service. There’s no chance that the ‘25 trade deadline massacre happened so that we’d squander the chances to build the best new core coming out of the new CBA.  Even Falvey and the Nephew aren’t that stupid.
 

 Oh, and by the way, there is another reason we know that these quotes are 100% lip service: they hired Shelton.  That’s not the guy you hire to build a nearish term winner (come to think of it, he’s probably not the guy you’d hire under any circumstance)

Could not agree more.  Nothing would be more incompetent than pivoting 180 degrees in the middle of a rebuild.  If that happens, I suspect it would be ownership driven. 

Rebuilds are part of the landscape for teams outside the top 10 in revenue or perhaps even the top 4-5.  They are good for the team outside the obvious short-term implications and rebuilding teams cash in assets that can contribute to a rebuilt team.  IE Grienke for Cane and Escobar.  Cleveland and Tampa do it as a matter of standard practice.  

Do we want to be "better" maybe even get close to 500 or do we want to build a contender?  There is a cost and it's the chances of contending in 28 and beyond.  Those chances will be diminished by whatever productivity would have come from selling off assets now.  It's possible that's a complete bust but it's equally probable we get a pitcher better than Ryan for Ryan and have that player for 6-7 years.  Granted, Ryan's production is much more likely as are the chances we won't be good over the next two years.   Do we want to manage to mediocrity?

[TwinsDr2021]

10 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Keeping the team only to gut it by trading Lopez, Ryan and Buxton and then go into a work stoppage would be so unbelievably dumb I still can't believe that's their plan. They might as well try to break the lease and move at that point. Target Field will be dead. 

Not disagreeing, but it could be genius? Trade away all payroll, stock pile prospects and when the work stoppage ends you are sitting on stud players and the ability to spend on free agency (assuming some sort of salary type cap is put in place)?

Now I have No, none, zero, zelch faith in this FO/Ownership, so it is likely they are just trying to figure out if they want Ham or Turkey for thanksgiving or possibly both, then actually improving the Twins going forward.

 

 

[TNtwins85]

11 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

If this truly is what Falvey believes and will pursue (i.e. building around Buxton, Ryan, and Lopez), he’s a bigger idiot than most of us believe (if that’s even possible).

So, the new strategy is a halfway rebuild in which we lose 90+ games and get nothing for our biggest assets, all of whom arguably are at their all-time (including the future) peak trade values and won’t be re-signed, before baseball shuts down for a good part or more of ‘27?  That would be the definition of pure GM lunacy.

C’mon, these quotes have to be lip service. There’s no chance that the ‘25 trade deadline massacre happened so that we’d squander the chances to build the best new core coming out of the new CBA.  Even Falvey and the Nephew aren’t that stupid.
 

 Oh, and by the way, there is another reason we know that these quotes are 100% lip service: they hired Shelton.  That’s not the guy you hire to build a nearish term winner (come to think of it, he’s probably not the guy you’d hire under any circumstance)

I would agree with you in some cases but history often tells you more than logic itself. Name one time in Pohlad ownership history where they completely gutted a team over the course of a year in a Astros, Baltimore, Cubs style full rebuild. That’s not what they do even though that makes logical sense in order to build a strong core. Would it make logical sense to trade pieces at the deadline to acquire higher upside lower minors players if going into a full rebuild or to target higher minors higher floor and lower ceiling guys? The writing is on the wall and I his is not a full scale rebuild. As long as Falvey is in the chair that doesn’t happen. This is his chance to try and turn it around and if he doesn’t that’s when he gets fired and full rebuild mode happens. Logic tells one thing and history and motive says another. Also, if not Derek Shelton than who?

[Whitey333]

How can anyone believe much of anything Falvey says.  He is so full of himself it's disgusting.  He just keeps lying and sells the fans on hope and hype.  Also you may as well trade both Ryan and Lopez.  With a lockout coming after the season I can't imagine too many teams would trade for those guys at the deadline.  This team is probably at about 60 wins next year even with Lopez and Ryan.  May as well get what you can this winter while the return may be good.  People complain about all the negativity here.  Well it's brought on by the organization itself.  Im hoping they sell the team after the lockout ends.

[Jeff K]

11 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Dear Byron,

I hope you stay! Whenever you decide that your playing days are done. I hope you will have played your entire fantastic career for one team. Your team... My team... the Minnesota Twins.

It will make you special. It will make you one of the few. One of the very few with a long career with one team. Long career... one team... adds up to very few. Select Company of very special baseball players. You know their names. Derek Jeter, George Brett, Chipper Jones, Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken. Kent Hrbek, Kirby Puckett and Joe Mauer. You will be one of those guys... Like I said... Select Company. 

25 will go up on the wall forever... a statue of you in the plaza will be built and remain forever. You can see the statue now... your hand thrust upward right before you are about to pull it down in a show of respect to your father.  

You have built what you built in Minnesota... stay... tend to what you have built. It won't go with you to New York, Los Angeles or anywhere else. What you built is right here. You will be starting over with a new fan base everywhere else.

Minnesota has adopted you. You are home... You are one of us.

In a world of increasing transition, those who stay are the true legends. 

You have a chance to be one of the few. The grass isn't always greener, the team you join could be fighting for air in two years... the future holds no promises. In the end, changing teams is just an increase of odds but the future holds no promises. 

Nothing is guaranteed in this world other than that statue going up in the plaza. For your future generations to look at. For my future generations to look at. You will belong in that plaza. 

I hope you stay and help us... lead your team mates to where we need to be. 

Sincerely, 

 

Riverbrian 

 

Love this!

[mluebker]

Falvey is going to need to start putting some of the Pohlads’ money where his mouth is if anyone is going to believe anything he says.

A good start would be to build a “strong up the middle” defense capped with Buxton in center. I’m talking about guys with defensive skills behind the plate and to play SS and 2B every day, as well hit.

But that would require the Pohlads to start thinking like owners of an MLB team, not financiers who happen to have one as part of their portfolio. 

[ladrossetwin]

Buxton wavering should be a wake up call for the teams decision makers that they need to actually make some moves to fill the holes on the roster if they really plan to build around their few remaining veterans

[Major League Ready]

4 hours ago, TNtwins85 said:

I would agree with you in some cases but history often tells you more than logic itself. Name one time in Pohlad ownership history where they completely gutted a team over the course of a year in a Astros, Baltimore, Cubs style full rebuild. That’s not what they do even though that makes logical sense in order to build a strong core. Would it make logical sense to trade pieces at the deadline to acquire higher upside lower minors players if going into a full rebuild or to target higher minors higher floor and lower ceiling guys? The writing is on the wall and I his is not a full scale rebuild. As long as Falvey is in the chair that doesn’t happen. This is his chance to try and turn it around and if he doesn’t that’s when he gets fired and full rebuild mode happens. Logic tells one thing and history and motive says another. Also, if not Derek Shelton than who?

You're right.  They have always opted to put a quasi-contender on the field that if everything breaks right has a shot at winning a series or even two but very little chance of making it to the WS.  It's a model of sustained mediocrity and there most recent statements make me think they may follow the same path.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, TNtwins85 said:

I would agree with you in some cases but history often tells you more than logic itself. Name one time in Pohlad ownership history where they completely gutted a team over the course of a year in a Astros, Baltimore, Cubs style full rebuild. That’s not what they do even though that makes logical sense in order to build a strong core. Would it make logical sense to trade pieces at the deadline to acquire higher upside lower minors players if going into a full rebuild or to target higher minors higher floor and lower ceiling guys? The writing is on the wall and I his is not a full scale rebuild. As long as Falvey is in the chair that doesn’t happen. This is his chance to try and turn it around and if he doesn’t that’s when he gets fired and full rebuild mode happens. Logic tells one thing and history and motive says another. Also, if not Derek Shelton than who?

I agree... We've spent a lot of time in the middle.

I actually think the signing of Correa and the increasing payroll of the early 20's until the RSN wall was hit head on with full force was the only real indication of an actual direction away from the middle.

Will this re-whatever be an indication of a different direction taken to get away from the middle.

We shall see.

But, Yeah... I'm pretty tired of Luke Warm, in the middle type moves.      

[Doctor Gast]

Many teams have wanted Buxton even when he had warts because they could see the elite player that he is. So you hear all this BS on social media before, that Buxton hated MN, that he wanted to leave. It was all lies! They like to bend things out of shape to fit their narrative, in the hope of making falsehood into reality. Thank God it didn't work!

Now they want to bend out of shape his statement that he wants to play for a winner. In other words, he wants to win, period. Every player wants to win & play for a winner. Buxton's wanting to win & play for a winner isn't him saying he wants to leave MN. He is saying he wants to make MN into a winner. Twins fans don't fall for this BS again. We are blessed to have Buxton to be a Twin. Don't start thinking, who can we get for Buxton? Believe me, it will never be enough.

[4twinsJA]

I have no problem with Twins trading Buxton. Twins are rebuilding, Buxton will not be part of next competitive window. Sell high on Buxton now. It is not so much a money issue at this point, but Twins acquiring potential pieces for next competitive window.

[The Great Hambino]

2 hours ago, TNtwins85 said:

I would agree with you in some cases but history often tells you more than logic itself. Name one time in Pohlad ownership history where they completely gutted a team over the course of a year in a Astros, Baltimore, Cubs style full rebuild.

They've also never in their ownership history taken on limited partners in order to service the debt they've accumulated.  History can be a good reference point, but I think we might already be in uncharted territory here.

Any opinions optimistic, pessimistic, or somewhere in the middle are going to remain purely speculative until we see them in action, but I don't think the limited partners are investing without an expectation of a return on  their investment.  And in a business venture like this with some degree of fixed revenue (they get their national broadcast revenue even if they go 0-162), the quickest path to getting that return is cutting costs, at least in the short-term

[TNtwins85]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

You're right.  They have always opted to put a quasi-contender on the field that everything breaks right has a shot at winning a series or even two but very little chance of making it to the WS.  It's a model of sustained mediocrity and there most recent statements make me think they may follow the same path.

Exactly! They have always chosen a fall apart. A full on rebuild gets you back in 3-4,5 years. They always choose the fall apart that takes 5-6,7 years and a team that’s 1-2 pieces away. 1-2 high end prospects you would have got by trading away 1-2 stars for 6 prospects. This is either a fall apart slowly or a restock. But with the prospects they’ve got already Falvey is looking to semi compete this year and be back by ‘27. His job depends on that. Especially with new minority owners wanting to see the ROI.

[Rufus]

15 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

The best player (by a long shot) on the team is reportedly considering waiving his no trade clause and that's not news worthy? 

It may be news worthy but speculating about Buxton's moral code?  Come on how does this savant know what Buxton's moral code is?  

[TNtwins85]

4 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

They've also never in their ownership history taken on limited partners in order to service the debt they've accumulated.  History can be a good reference point, but I think we might already be in uncharted territory here.

Any opinions optimistic, pessimistic, or somewhere in the middle are going to remain purely speculative until we see them in action, but I don't think the limited partners are investing without an expectation of a return on  their investment.  And in a business venture like this with some degree of fixed revenue (they get their national broadcast revenue even if they go 0-162), the quickest path to getting that return is cutting costs, at least in the short-term

But what makes you more money? Reducing payroll or being a continual competitor in the postseason? Why do you always hear the phrase “We want to create a year to year contender”? Because a year to year contender makes you way more money, although not guaranteed, than simply collecting a revenue sharing check. Each year you might get $60M as a revenue receiver. But if you create a continual contender and you bring in not only that but all the merchandise and gate revenue it only makes sense to be a contender rather than a bottom dweller. From a mid market to small market perspective.

[Rigby]

10 hours ago, ashbury said:

Ghost written by Joe Pohlad.

The Art Of The Spiel.

[Blyleven2011]

22 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Many teams have wanted Buxton even when he had warts because they could see the elite player that he is. So you hear all this BS on social media before, that Buxton hated MN, that he wanted to leave. It was all lies! They like to bend things out of shape to fit their narrative, in the hope of making falsehood into reality. Thank God it didn't work!

Now they want to bend out of shape his statement that he wants to play for a winner. In other words, he wants to win, period. Every player wants to win & play for a winner. Buxton's wanting to win & play for a winner isn't him saying he wants to leave MN. He is saying he wants to make MN into a winner. Twins fans don't fall for this BS again. We are blessed to have Buxton to be a Twin. Don't start thinking, who can we get for Buxton? Believe me, it will never be enough.

Im not going to blame Byron Buxton if he opts out of his no trade clause if ownership continues to rip apart the roster further  ....

Everyone wants to be a winner , players , fans and most organization but not our organization  ...

We will get a nice page in the Tribune by Buxton thanking the twins fans for our support  ...

Players ( especially veterans ) haven't been happy here since 2021 , I hope shelton can bring some happiness to the player's and they play to their full potential  , I could name names but we know who they are ...

[AlGoreRythm]

16 hours ago, Nshore said:

When Buxton started out, he and Sano were to be the foundation of turning the be Twins into a consistent winner.  As it turned out Sano wasn't good, and  Buxton couldn't stay on the field - so the Twins didn't win.   In spite of that, Buxton scored a 100 million dollar contract, which he probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere else.  Now he has a good year and maybe wants to jump ship because the team isn't a winner.  The "moral code" thing makes me a little nauseous.

You don't know what you're talking about, and it's making me a little nauseous.

[Major League Ready]

20 minutes ago, TNtwins85 said:

Exactly! They have always chosen a fall apart. A full on rebuild gets you back in 3-4,5 years. They always choose the fall apart that takes 5-6,7 years and a team that’s 1-2 pieces away. 1-2 high end prospects you would have got by trading away 1-2 stars for 6 prospects. This is either a fall apart slowly or a restock. But with the prospects they’ve got already Falvey is looking to semi compete this year and be back by ‘27. His job depends on that. Especially with new minority owners wanting to see the ROI.

There has been a lot of angst over a rebuild because most people just assume it will take 5 years.  The Twins rebuild will either sink or swim by 2028.  I am not saying they will be WS contenders but the relative strength and potential of the team will be evident by the start of 2028. 

They have an unusual number of players either ready or close.  Some of the SPs (Bradley/Matthews/SWR/Abel) are already here and there are others that are close.  Their top position player prospects (Jenkins/Culpepper/Rodriguez and Gonzalez should be ready during 2026 or 2027 at the latest. Tait enters 2028.  The whole thing could yield nothing or they could have a good team for several years but that will likely take shape in a couple years.  

[nicksaviking]

13 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If I was the owner and I got a vote of no confidence from Byron Buxton, I would fire my POBO.

I'd fire Falvey too.

But Buxton's vote of no confidence clearly would be coming from the team slashing the payroll by selling players, which obviously is being driven by the guy who would be doing the actual firing, not Falvey himself. 

[nicksaviking]

10 hours ago, ashbury said:

Ghost written by Joe Pohlad.

Right, I know no one likes the POBO, but blaming him for slashing payroll is pretty absurd. There's enough to criticize him for, but selling off players to drop payroll isn't one of them. It's not like he WANTS to make his own job harder.

[Woof Bronzer]

4 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

There has been a lot of angst over a rebuild because most people just assume it will take 5 years.  The Twins rebuild will either sink or swim by 2028.  I am not saying they will be WS contenders but the relative strength and potential of the team will be evident by the start of 2028. 

They have an unusual number of players either ready or close.  Some of the SPs (Bradley/Matthews/SWR/Abel) are already here and there are others that are close.  Their top position player prospects (Jenkins/Culpepper/Rodriguez and Gonzalez should be ready during 2026 or 2027 at the latest. Tait enters 2028.  The whole thing could yield nothing or they could have a good team for several years but that will likely take shape in a couple years.  

We might see a lot of the young guys by 2028 but to assume they are going to hit the ground running and turn this team into a legit contender right away is wishful thinking to me.  Could happen, but I think it's much more likely that there will be growing pains and maybe 2030 is when the club comes into its own. 2028 will be too early to judge the success or lack thereof.

But whether its 2028 or 2030 this plan requires the Twins to let the young guys play and probably trade off some of Buxton, Ryan, and Lopez.  It requires committing to an actual rebuild, not...whatever it is Falvey is doing now.  

[sweetmusicviola16]

11 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

There has been a lot of angst over a rebuild because most people just assume it will take 5 years.  The Twins rebuild will either sink or swim by 2028.  I am not saying they will be WS contenders but the relative strength and potential of the team will be evident by the start of 2028. 

They have an unusual number of players either ready or close.  Some of the SPs (Bradley/Matthews/SWR/Abel) are already here and there are others that are close.  Their top position player prospects (Jenkins/Culpepper/Rodriguez and Gonzalez should be ready during 2026 or 2027 at the latest. Tait enters 2028.  The whole thing could yield nothing or they could have a good team for several years but that will likely take shape in a couple years.  

The reality is some of the guys you mentioned may not be worth a hill of beans when all is said and done. Others may well in fact become very good. We don't know. The other reality is when the cycle comes around again these guys also will become part of trade talk. We can't afford to squander the full value of players so we can win 75 games because we want to be competitive every single season. We can't afford to be attached to mediocre results either.  At 75-80 wins you were probably considered competitive until early to mid August. We need to finish what we started here. Call this what you want. Rebuild, retool, reshuffle. But it needs to be followed all the way through. The way I see the 2026 team is we could spend 35-40mil and plug some holes and we're still only a 75-80 win team. But we just lost a great deal of the value that Ryan, Lopez, etc possibly hold. The last thing that I want is to be the LA Angels of the last decade. Never really bad. But far from actually good.

[Unwinder]

Buck passed up a lot of money in order to stay here on an extremely team-friendly deal, can't imagine anything more insulting to that loyalty than punishing him by not trying to win.

[Deadfan]

17 hours ago, Rufus said:

'

Oh go away, are you that hard up for things toe write about?  So tired of the negativity 

Found Joe Pohlads burner account 

[Deadfan]

Yeeeesh.....Twins ownership gonna screw this pooch too. 

 

MLBtraderumors is reporting the PITTSBURGH PIRATES (yep, that team) are committing 30-40 mil to their 2026 payroll. Perhaps its time to jump ship? 

 

This inept ownership group is just going to keep ****ing the collective bed, then lying about it and spinning it after the fact. 

 

I think im done. 

[Mike Sixel]

The headline is awful. There is no moral issue here, and you should be embarrassed for publishing that title. 

As for the actual issue, he should be pissed, and he should want to leave this ownership. And, realistically, sadly, against what I want, they should likely deal him. He's the one veteran I'd consider keeping, though...